Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Urchin on July 23, 2001, 03:59:00 PM
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Pyro, I was told in game that you did not want to add the 109K4, any particular reason why? I'd like to have it if it rolls better than the G10 does, even if it does turn a little bit worse.
<Note, that info is from Grunherz, I've no idea if it is actually faster at rolling and a bit worse at turning, he said the difference is less than the difference between the G6 and the G10 turn-wise.>
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The G10 in game is the K4 without the revised canopy according to Pyro.
-SW
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Revised canopy SW? What u mean?
Anyway what I know about possibly AH relevant K4 differences is:
Faster due to gear doors and tail wheel.
A bit heavier due to above.
Was a bit less stable at 30,000feet than G10 for some reason, according to the pilots.
Had internal components relocated to improve balance.
Most important it had new ailerons with flettner tabs. These helped increse high speed rollrate and eased pilot effort in rolling.
Basically flettner tabs are small tabs that automatically move in the opposite direction of the control surface.
For example Lets say:
The aileron delects up.
The flettner tab automatically deflects down.
This acts very much as a small wing flap, increasing the lift and helping keep the ailron deflected up at high speeds.
This is what would cause the incresed hig speed roll rate.
Apparently these flettner tabs were very effective as some early A6M Zeros had them fitted. These planes would then rip their wings off from the increased roll rate. :)
As for where I heard pyro said he didnt want to do a K4, it was in an old old old thread on the BBS.
Maybe now he has changed his mind, I donno.
:)
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Nevermind, I just looked at the AH G-10 and it does have the sleeker canopy. I thought it had the old boxy one like the E, F and early G series.
-SW
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From W. Green "Warplanes of the third Reich":
109K-4 speed 378 mph at sea level
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Perk it :)
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thats about what Nash is getting out of his n1k2.......
Shhh you ever see him fly thing ............ :)
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William Green also says it has 15mm cowl guns and a mk103 in the spinner doenst he?
I think Pyro is going on the position(commonly held) that the G10 is functionaly identical to the K4. It certainly had the same armements and engine. And was issued to units interchangably
Grun post refrences for the differences you site please.
William Green does not count in my books.
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I'd be more concerned about the increased roll-rate to be honest ;-) I like to FIGHT in the 109, and the increased rollrate would help me do that. I think the AH g10 does about 375 or so sea-level, I could be wrong there. It is really intellectual curiousity, I fly the 109 a lot and if it performs better than what we have now, I want it :D
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K-Models were using different armament configurations.
Some got similar like in G-10:
Engine mounted MK-108 30mm and two MG131 13mm under engine cowlings.
Some lost cowling armament but got different wing with inbuilt cannons/MGs. This could be reason for Mr.Greens thoughts about 15mm MGs installed in 109.
Also some versions lost engine-mounted cannon but got two 13mm MGs installed under engine cowlings and MK-108 cannons inside of wings (Not in pods).
And it also looks like modified MK-103 cannon was meant to be installed in some K-models. AFAIR only few prototupes were manufactured.
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Couple drawings:
K-6:
3*MK-108 30mm: Two in wings and one in engine and 2*MG131 over engine.
(http://www.kolumbus.fi/staga/Pics/bf109k6.jpg)
K-8:
Modified engine-mounted MK-103 30mm cannon and 2*MK-108 cannons inside of wings.
(http://www.kolumbus.fi/staga/Pics/bf109k8.jpg)
Problem with manufacturing numbers is that some of K-models were overhauled older G-models and were re-engined/re-armed in different factories.
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Dead GOD- 3x30mm cannon? Bet that sucker packed a punch...
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Looks like K-6 was in "limited" production but K-8s were only couple protos.
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15mm cowl guns were not mounted. This is a mistake somebody once made that has been endlessly propagated.
The Mg151 15mm is identical in size to the 20mm version and about 3 times the weight of the Mg131 13mm gun (which they had some trouble accommodating in the cowl). There was simply not enough room in the cowl to mount Mg151s and if there were they would have mounted the 20mm version.
Hooligan
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K-6 with 3*MK108 and 2*MG131 could be german 8 points perk-plane ;)
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Oooh. So thats where the spinner cannon was mounted. I thought they actually mounted the gun right under the engine. Didn't realise it was moved back so far. Never really saw any good pictures of the insides of a 109. :)
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No K6 were ever built. The wing was ready but never mated to the K4 airframe. same for K8 etc.
No 109 ever mounted 2xMG151/15 over the engine. Too big.
The Mk103 was modified to fit inside the engine, but it wasnt used during the war for various reasons like excessive weight etc.
There is some suggestion that possibly a single K14 was issued to pilots but it crashed on the transfer flight.
This had the new DB605L and 4 bladed propeller.
It had the 3xMk108 30mm and 2xMG131 13mm.
The DB605L and 4 blade prop test machines provided a stunning increse in performance at high alts over the DB605D and 3 blade prop.
Anyway this K14 delivery stuff is just a rumor and IM NOT ASKING FOR IT IN AH!!!!!, OK? clear? ;).
Pongo most is common knowledge about K4 but ill dig up the specific references for the more obscure stuff.
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Just a little bump ;). The technical info is fascinating, but I want to hear from Pyro eventually.