Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Vermillion on April 13, 2000, 08:07:00 AM
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So how many of you have noticed the changes in the way we fight in the main arena yet, due to 1.02? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Stratospheric Buffs are pretty much a thing of the past, and the laser guided 500lb pinpoint accuracy is gone. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I like it.
This plus the introduction of the ground vehicles, and the viability of Jabo missions have brought the fights down considerably.
I am seeing alot more P-38's, and alot less Bf109G10's.
And here is the biggie!!! The vulch fest is pretty much a thing of the past, with the introduction of hanger destruction, knocking out the ability to launch, our overall fights are much more realistic. And they also tend to be more spread out, and at varied alts.
If you want to really understand this impact, look at the top 50 K/D rankings of this tour, and compare them to tours in the past. They are way down.
At first this version felt very wierd to me, but now that I am getting use to it, I think its the biggest improvement to gameplay that we have gotten yet!! <S> to HTC, I love it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
One small and minor complaint (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) could we change hanger hardness to require a 1,000 lbr instead of a 250 lbr. Right now a single B-17 can disable aircraft and vehicles along most of a front.
Otherwise its Great !
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Carpe Jugulum
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
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Yepper, I love it so far, but one thing I have noticed increasing is the ack hugging. Seems like most fights now are either in or near someone's ack.
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banana
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
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YES !
We can finaly use those low level speed birds !
Lethality of AP shell needs to be upped, but I believe that it's in HT's list for the next patch (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Saw/Saintaw
=XO=II/JG2~Richthofen~
GMT T.O.D. SITE (http://www.wardogs.org/ah/)
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/dorasaint.gif)
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
Don't shoot ! I am only an observer......
[This message has been edited by Saintaw (edited 04-13-2000).]
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Noticed it too Vermillion. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) The gameplay here is rounding out with more choices now when coming online.
there is literally somehting for everyone and that wil lget even better when more aircraft are brought on and a naval aspect gets introduced with CV's some day.
And I'm in love with the P-38. Been flying it since day one with a few odd sorties in other aircraft.
I hated the one in Brand AW but this one fits like a glove. Still, even though Pyro let it be known last night he HATES the P-47, when that aircraft is finally, begrudgingly modelled here it'll be the only thing you might ever see me in again.
-Westy
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 04-13-2000).]
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Agree about vulturing, think it is in past and it is a good thing.
Have any one paid attention that buff almost all has >100% of accuracy. Looks like hitting the acks give you 200% of accuracy which is strange and should not be.
Hangars toughness shall be increased, 1000lb is what is shall be. Also in a big fields it shall be 2 fighter hangars instead of 1.
I still not sure that implementation of all that new fetures made the gameplay much better. May be I just need some time to get used to it.
Fariz
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Hangers definately gettin kilt way too easy. I'm constantly having to jump around to find a base to take off from. Some of these buff flyin clowns just tool around porkin airfields with no intention of capture. I'd like to see the vehicle hangers especially hardened so we can get a better shot at defending a base using vehicles.
CRASH
Originally posted by Vermillion:
So how many of you have noticed the changes in the way we fight in the main arena yet, due to 1.02? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Stratospheric Buffs are pretty much a thing of the past, and the laser guided 500lb pinpoint accuracy is gone. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I like it.
This plus the introduction of the ground vehicles, and the viability of Jabo missions have brought the fights down considerably.
I am seeing alot more P-38's, and alot less Bf109G10's.
And here is the biggie!!! The vulch fest is pretty much a thing of the past, with the introduction of hanger destruction, knocking out the ability to launch, our overall fights are much more realistic. And they also tend to be more spread out, and at varied alts.
If you want to really understand this impact, look at the top 50 K/D rankings of this tour, and compare them to tours in the past. They are way down.
At first this version felt very wierd to me, but now that I am getting use to it, I think its the biggest improvement to gameplay that we have gotten yet!! <S> to HTC, I love it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
One small and minor complaint (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) could we change hanger hardness to require a 1,000 lbr instead of a 250 lbr. Right now a single B-17 can disable aircraft and vehicles along most of a front.
Otherwise its Great !
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Thinks about the structural design of a WW2 hangar, they are NOT hardened like todays hangars, a bomb as small as 50 lbs. should have no problem disabling the contents of something as frail as a hangar.
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Ripsnort(-rip1-)
I/JG2~Richthofen~
JG2 Communications Officer
Aces High Training Corps
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
(http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/ripsnort.jpg)
Turning Spitfires into Bud Lite cans since 1992
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 04-13-2000).]
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Thinks about the structural design of a WW2 hangar, they are NOT hardened like todays hangars, a bomb as small as 50 lbs. should have no problem disabling the contents of something as frail as a hangar.
But destroying hangar in WW2 DID NOT ment the closed field. It is question of the gameplay, not a historical accuracy.
Other way to do it is to make more hangars, like 6 for a field.
Fariz
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"Some of these buff flyin clowns just tool around porkin airfields with no intention of capture."
Yes. And as long as the "free two week try out" folks are in the main arenea this will probably be with us for a long time. OR until there are other arenas we use. This is behavior I"ve seen in FA and AW (and I've heard in WB's too) and as folks come here to see what the ruckus is all about they'll bring this type of habit habits with them.
It is the easiest thing to do in any online flight sim: get airborne, get real high, listen to the radio chatter, learn the controls, learn the interface and then piss people off, most times it's inadvertant and due to plain old ignorance, by "porking" thier airbases.
All you can do is ask people not to. Usually only fellow countrymen will listen. It doesn'y if, say, you're a ROOK and you call out to a Knight B17 and ask/tell them to go somewhere else.
-Westy
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Originally posted by Fariz:
But destroying hangar in WW2 DID NOT ment the closed field. It is question of the gameplay, not a historical accuracy.
Fariz
I'm assuming that the aircraft that are spawned within the game are coming from the proverbial hangar. If a bomb goes off inside a hangar, and all your aircraft are inside the hangar, you can bet that it will prevent any A/C from rolling out onto the field.
In WW2, a field was diabled by either A) Strafing A/C on the field, B) Cratering the runway or C) Bombing the hangars that house the A/C or D) cutting vital supply lines that service A/C to an airfield, or E) all the above. I think HT has chose the hangars as the method of disabling an airfield.
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 04-13-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 04-13-2000).]
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I agree that hangars should be harder to kill.
My observation of the change in arena dynamics is that, with all the new stuff to do, the Rooks are even LESS organized than before. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
popeye
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Has the scoring been updated? Last night I took a wing off a buff which hit my plane (I think). I got the kill as the buff pilot hit his chute. I tried to level off with my wing tip missing but eventually lost control. After bailing, a kill was awarded to the same pilot that I shot down. I saw him in his chute floating down.
Sour
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Sourkraut
JG-2 Richthofen (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2)
"Hey - someone has to be the target...."
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/saurkraut.gif)
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I have to agree with those asking for hanger hardness to be toughened.
Also I think it would be great if it took even more to knock out a vehicle hanger.
If it was only possible to take a vehicle hanger down with a tank I think you'd see even more vehicles.
As it is a single F4u can close a Vehicle depot single handed. Come back with a c47 & capture it. Too easy by half by air & too difficult by ground.
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Don't figure the low k/d is becuase its harder... Not so, My K/D is low do to me trying to master JABO... air to air i'd be around 5.0 or more.. this arena is easier to escape becuase its spread out more..
I sometimes escape into NME territory, climbout and return home, attack TOO's etc...(Targets of Oppontunity.)
Playing chicken with acks is dangerous and as of yet i can't win every time on strafing runs....
Getting better though....
Soon buffs will be a thing of the past...
5 mustangs with bombs and rockets will supply the field destruction and the cap with a quick repsonse time to target that can't be beat... Also insert the p38, 190, and F4U as needed.
As far as the vulch fest you nailed it on the nose....
Regards,
DoctoryO
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AH is great,
Often there are times that I don't want to work myself up to take off climb forever to get above everyone and then mix it up in a dogfight. In WB and pre 1.02 I'd just log. Now I might take a tank or M-16 and sturr up some trouble. The other night I took up a B-17 and commenced bombing some fields and fighting some 109s (got three before I ran outta ammo (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
There are just so many differant things to try now and with the flat rate I can waste time climbing to alt in a buff or spend an hour getting my tank up the hill over looking the field.
I do agree that some of the target's hardness needs to be increased. I'd like to see a hanger require 2X1000 lbers to destroy, yes it isn't realistic but neither is a single bomber closing 10 fields. With 2x1000 lbers most planes can carry them (P-51, P-38, F-4U etc.) that they are still usefull in the Jabo roll, but can't close a field by themselves. Closing a field should take a coordinated effort.
Oh and I agree with making the vehicle parks harder too. Not much use in defending a field if 1 250 lber can destroy all the land vehicles.
Sharky
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You can run, but you just die tired.
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Ruh Roh!!
Ok.. The bombs are no longer lazer guided... seems that about 2 outta 10 miss, all drop parameters being equal. Also; quite often one 250lb bomb on a hanger does not destroy it. Another pass has to be made to get it. No single pass assures full field closure... And yes; chances are good that a precision attack from 12k will get 'em first pass; but there are no assurances! Further; buffing from higher than 13k GREATLY reduces accuracy and effectiveness. If that buff wants to do it right he needs to be at about 10-12k. Easy meat for a high cap.
Further; cruising a front and closing fields by hitting hangars is a viable tactic.. I use it to isolate the field I wish to hammer and capture or to shut down an attack in progress commin from that field. By first hitting the fields adjacent to the one I intend to attack and capture; I isolate it and greatly improve my teams chances of getting a goon in and capturing.. I think the way it's set up right now is just fine. Teamwork is a must; timing and coordination is a requesite for success now.
Lastly, if yah wanna stop buffs from closing a field; it seems reasonable to expect that you have to put up a CAP to protect it. Also viable tactics. The system is not and should not be responsible for a good field defense; the TEAM is. If your team has no defensive high CAP; you may lose the ability to use that field fer 30 minutes. If they make it harder to kill a fields defenses; then that field oughta remain closed for a LOT LONGER than 30 min!
Just my humble opinion....
Hang
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Hi all
Yep, I agree in general with all comments here basically. Okay, Hangars are pretty easy to kill, though as mentioned it wouldn't take much to disable a real hangar anyway, and not more than 500lb. BTW, airfields had dispersals to stop their planes being bombed in hangars as it was only those that were mainly under repair in hangars.
As for ack, yep, less accurate which proves more of a challenge, though even if you miss an ack with a 500lb bomb by a short distance it still doesn't blow it up (or kill what would be the person that manned it). Hmm, think about it! Perhaps with added fragments/shrapnel will destroy acks in future which could mean more acks! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Very good show in all!
Regards
'Nexx'
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Ripsnort: Replicant's correct; combat ready aircraft were not kept in the hanger, ever. It was too big of a target and offered no portection. Serviceable aircraft were dispersed -- in three-sided revetments (earth or sandbagged berms as high as 10 feet) or under some kind of natural cover, such as trees. In Germany late in the war, a thick treeline adjacent to the take-off/landing field (paved runways were by no means the norm for dispersal bases) was a prerequisit for a fighter base. So concealment, physical protection, or both were used to make it harder to destroy your a/c on the ground. The hangers, if the base had any, were used as a place perform major servicing out of the weather.
The question then IS one of gameplay, as Replicant noted. Brand-W is planning on adding parked aircraft (as ground objects) to airfields in version 3.0. Destroying the parked a/c will affect aircraft availability at the base. Having them in revetments would make destroying them harder, since a direct hit would be needed to destroy an aircraft protected thus. I'd like to see bases use multiple revetments for fighters and perhaps the single hanger for bombers as spawn points. The fighter revetments would be harder to destroy, as a rule, then the bomber hangers. A larger field should have many revetments (10 or more), while small fields might have only 4. Food for thought.
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Sabre, a.k.a. Rojo
(S-2, The Buccaneers)
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Rojo, and as I pointed out, AH does not replicate parked A/C, but those that are parked in hangars. Thus, a 250 lb. bomb would certainly disable A/C at an airfield.
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Rip, Rip, Rip...I don't dispute that a single 250kg HE bomb would wreck a WWII-style hanger, and the ONE or TWO aicraft they could realistically hold. The point Riplicant and myself are trying to make is that a single bomb currently has an inordinate impact on gameplay when dropped on a single hanger in AH, i.e. it completely disables all a/c of one type at that field. So the choices are to add more targets to the field that need to be destroyed to disable a/c, or make the single (or double in the case of fighters at the big fields) hanger target harder to kill. The later is a solution that can be implemented immediately, while the former would require new terrain. I'd also like to see damage to the runway as an alternate means of disabling a/c launching.
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Sabre, a.k.a. Rojo
(S-2, The Buccaneers)
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I see your point now, granted, my arguement was a single bomb CAN destroy a hangar, now that you've explained it in terms that a thick-skulled neanderthal like me can understand, yes! I agree, more hangars than just 1 should be damaged or tougher to disable A/C.
I understand that in this patch, its tougher to drop a hanger, not sure if that means one has to have 1000'lber or not.
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 04-14-2000).]