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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Busher on March 21, 2022, 12:01:41 PM

Title: 737 Crash
Post by: Busher on March 21, 2022, 12:01:41 PM
Earlier today, China Eastern Airlines suffered the total loss of a Boeing 737-800. News reports are sketchy but it's reported that the airline has decided to ground it's entire fleet of over 100 B737-800's. Apparently the airline operates only 3 B737-Max.
Here's hoping the Chinese authorities honor the NTSB's request to be participants in the investigation.
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Shuffler on March 21, 2022, 12:31:49 PM
At almost 30,000 feet the aircraft went into a dive. Took just over two minutes to hit the ground. No survivors.


Claims to be video of the crash...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10634901/Boeing-737-passenger-jet-carrying-133-crashes-rural-China.html#v-147858520743130903

Flightaware... https://flightaware.com/live/flight/CES5735


(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/03/21/13/55609171-10634901-Flight_Radar_data_shows_how_the_plane_plummeted_thousands_of_fee-a-126_1647868300408.jpg)
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Eagler on March 21, 2022, 03:32:19 PM
Wonder who was on it...

Eagler
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 21, 2022, 05:51:49 PM
My guess is a wing broke off. The thing fell like a rock.
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: perdue3 on March 21, 2022, 06:17:14 PM
Sounds like another MCAS, but I doubt that was equipped with it.
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 21, 2022, 06:32:10 PM
I don't really understand the final part where it regained alt and then dived back in. Maybe only half the wing came off? From the film, the part he filmed would be right after it regained alt. Also interesting is the camera guy was able to know right where it was in rural China to catch the last second of it. I'm surprised too it was able to leak to the press. It was a very short video, curious how long he was recording. Looked like the last wing broke off there. 

If all is as it appears, truely devastating.
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Busher on March 21, 2022, 06:51:37 PM
Sounds like another MCAS, but I doubt that was equipped with it.

It's not. It's a 737-800; not a MAX.
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Busher on March 21, 2022, 06:56:27 PM
I don't really understand the final part where it regained alt and then dived back in. Maybe only half the wing came off? From the film, the part he filmed would be right after it regained alt. Also interesting is the camera guy was able to know right where it was in rural China to catch the last second of it. I'm surprised too it was able to leak to the press. It was a very short video, curious how long he was recording. Looked like the last wing broke off there. 

If all is as it appears, truely devastating.

Why speculate? As I said, let's hope that the NTSB is invited to offer it's expertise in the investigation so that something positive arises from this tragedy.
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Vulcan on March 21, 2022, 08:09:24 PM
Also interesting is the camera guy was able to know right where it was in rural China to catch the last second of it. I'm surprised too it was able to leak to the press. It was a very short video, curious how long he was recording. Looked like the last wing broke off there.

Ya know that CCTV means there is no 'camera guy'.

The state of education and reading comprehension in Amerika is honestly appalling.
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Chalenge on March 22, 2022, 02:36:15 AM
Ya know that CCTV means there is no 'camera guy'.

The state of education and reading comprehension in Amerika is honestly appalling.

We educate people to work in factories, and yet we sold all of our factories. Go figure.
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Chalenge on March 22, 2022, 02:56:07 AM
I'm not a professional inspector by any means, but I used to detail interior refits for everything from Lears to commercial jets. What I discovered fit with every other industry I have worked in. It doesn't matter if the business cooks chicken, fries burgers, or builds jets they all have the same issues. The head office incentivizes fast work, rapid pacing, and shortcuts, to the point that supervisors place great demands upon the crews. They say they have time to do the job correctly, but they don't. Time-based management has been a ticking time bomb since the 1980's. Just look up books from the period (like "The Five-Minute Manager") and you see how the effect that the thinking of the time could avalanche into the problems of today. Ford and Chevy can't even build vehicles worth a plugged nickel anymore. Even Lockheed produced an entire year's worth of C5's that won't fly (although, in all fairness the capabilities did change when the M-1 grew to a 100-ton package). Cool airplane though!

EDIT: added YT link.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1zm_BEYFiU&ab_channel=MaximusAviation
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Spikes on March 22, 2022, 07:24:19 AM
I'm not a professional inspector by any means, but I used to detail interior refits for everything from Lears to commercial jets. What I discovered fit with every other industry I have worked in. It doesn't matter if the business cooks chicken, fries burgers, or builds jets they all have the same issues. The head office incentivizes fast work, rapid pacing, and shortcuts, to the point that supervisors place great demands upon the crews. They say they have time to do the job correctly, but they don't. Time-based management has been a ticking time bomb since the 1980's.
If you haven't seen the Netflix docu "Downfall: The Case Against Boeing", I highly recommend it. Basically exactly what you described.
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 22, 2022, 07:33:41 AM
Ya know that CCTV means there is no 'camera guy'.

The state of education and reading comprehension in Amerika is honestly appalling.

The video I was watching of it did not say CCTV. Who do you think controls the schooling system in America, Doochebag? The same clowns that put masks on kids for 8 hours a day at school while they sit at their desks. It's the same education your country is getting because it's controlled by pretty much the same people. Of course its a total sham. All they care about is kids going to college to learn about theory. The same idiots who run the school system are the same idiots running the country into the ground. Least I become a high paid Controller though because I'm actually smart and jobs aren't really that dependent on public schooling. They don't even teach Accounting in public school. I had to learn it myself.
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: MiloMorai on March 22, 2022, 09:11:20 AM
"They don't even teach Accounting in public school. I had to learn it myself."

They don't teach math in schools anymore?
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Spikes on March 22, 2022, 09:15:54 AM
Accounting and math are not one in the same.
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Hungry on March 22, 2022, 09:17:31 AM
"They don't even teach Accounting in public school. I had to learn it myself."

They don't teach math in schools anymore?

Funny, but you do realize that accounting is a specific and separate application of math, a little bit of a hurry to find something to criticize DmonSlyr for? For example 1 +1 = 2 vs ledger entries checks and balances, costs and margin

Just checking
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Mister Fork on March 22, 2022, 09:18:22 AM
So many possibilities... Where do we start our thoughts after watching the last video where it was doing a lawndart into the side of the hill.

(ahem)
1. Don't these fracking flight schools teach runaway trimtab procedures?
2. Pilots with fake credentials?
3. Will the Chinese government hide the fact the pilot committed suicide?
4. NTSB are a bunch of useless tards nowadays.
5. FAKE CHINESE PARTS...wait a minute

Did I miss anything?
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Shuffler on March 22, 2022, 11:19:49 AM
I don't really understand the final part where it regained alt and then dived back in. Maybe only half the wing came off? From the film, the part he filmed would be right after it regained alt. Also interesting is the camera guy was able to know right where it was in rural China to catch the last second of it. I'm surprised too it was able to leak to the press. It was a very short video, curious how long he was recording. Looked like the last wing broke off there. 

If all is as it appears, truely devastating.

They say the gain in alt may be an anomaly.


It's not. It's a 737-800; not a MAX.

I believe they stated it is a 737-89P




Regardless of what happened, I  hope they find the cause. It is the only way we learn and can correct the issue.
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: MiloMorai on March 22, 2022, 11:25:06 AM
Funny, but you do realize that accounting is a specific and separate application of math, a little bit of a hurry to find something to criticize DmonSlyr for? For example 1 +1 = 2 vs ledger entries checks and balances, costs and margin

Just checking

When I was in high school, accounting was part of math. ;)
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Spikes on March 22, 2022, 11:26:16 AM
I believe they stated it is a 737-89P
AKA a 737-800.
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Shuffler on March 22, 2022, 11:29:29 AM
AKA a 737-800.

Gotcha  :aok
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Eagler on March 22, 2022, 11:35:19 AM
Crush Boeing..what's left?

Eagler
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Busher on March 22, 2022, 01:27:19 PM
4. NTSB are a bunch of useless tards nowadays.

I have no idea why you would state that. The institution has been essential and impartial investigations to advance air safety. As a Canadian air line pilot who was deeply involved with flight safety, I followed most of their investigations and have never observed anything but the most professional processes.

It should be re-enforced that the mandate of the NTSB is never to lay blame but rather to determine the most probable cause to prevent re-occurrence  and to enhance future air safety.
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Busher on March 22, 2022, 01:29:19 PM
Crush Boeing..what's left?

Eagler

Why would we want to crush Boeing? Airbus is better? or crush them too?
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Vulcan on March 22, 2022, 02:10:49 PM
The video I was watching of it did not say CCTV. Who do you think controls the schooling system in America, Doochebag? The same clowns that put masks on kids for 8 hours a day at school while they sit at their desks. It's the same education your country is getting because it's controlled by pretty much the same people. Of course its a total sham. All they care about is kids going to college to learn about theory. The same idiots who run the school system are the same idiots running the country into the ground. Least I become a high paid Controller though because I'm actually smart and jobs aren't really that dependent on public schooling. They don't even teach Accounting in public school. I had to learn it myself.

Blah blah blah... let me quote the link above:

Quote
Shocking CCTV footage emerged on social media showing the jet racing vertically towards the ground today

(That is stated several times)

It also looks like typical CCTV footage, a fixed camera.
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: nrshida on March 23, 2022, 05:16:37 AM
Those poor people.

 :pray

Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 23, 2022, 07:57:59 AM
Blah blah blah... let me quote the link above:

(That is stated several times)

It also looks like typical CCTV footage, a fixed camera.

I didn't look at that link. But you don't have to be a dooch about it.
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Toad on March 23, 2022, 11:54:22 AM
Profile kinda/sorta looks like an Emergency Descent profile. Down from 30k to under 10k in roughly 2 minutes, which IMO is pretty fast even for an ED. But it's not an unusual thing to recover at 10k due to pax being able to breathe without oxygen masks at 10k.

So really high rate of descent down, attempt to level at 10k, go below it in the recovery due to high rate of descent, climb back towards 10k but then what?

Just speculation but one of the few reasons I can come up with for that profile.

Nobody knows nuthin' right now.
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Busher on March 23, 2022, 12:48:08 PM
Profile kinda/sorta looks like an Emergency Descent profile. Down from 30k to under 10k in roughly 2 minutes, which IMO is pretty fast even for an ED. But it's not an unusual thing to recover at 10k due to pax being able to breathe without oxygen masks at 10k.

So really high rate of descent down, attempt to level at 10k, go below it in the recovery due to high rate of descent, climb back towards 10k but then what?

Just speculation but one of the few reasons I can come up with for that profile.

Nobody knows nuthin' right now.

I recall Toad that you also fly (or flew) professionally as well?

Nothing that I flew could descend at any more than 8000 ft./min in full ED configuration. I never flew any of the 737's but the sailplane like wings on the NG version, I suspect it might struggle to get down in a hurry.
I was always under the impression that FAR 25 placed a maximum time limit to accomplish an ED from Max Certified altitude but all I have been able to find was this:
 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK207481/
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Spikes on March 23, 2022, 12:51:14 PM
It it possible that they exceeded the max ft/min and sheered control surfaces or something made them inoperable?

Obviously just logical theories at this point. Hopefully we can avoid conspiracy theories so the thread stays open.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Vulcan on March 23, 2022, 02:12:36 PM
I didn't look at that link. But you don't have to be a dooch about it.

sorry, but the jumping to conspiracy theories triggers me.
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Busher on March 23, 2022, 04:06:41 PM
It it possible that they exceeded the max ft/min and sheered control surfaces or something made them inoperable?

Obviously just logical theories at this point. Hopefully we can avoid conspiracy theories so the thread stays open.  :rolleyes:

Highly unlikely... it would take herculean force to hold the nose down in a jet when it would be trying naturally to pitch up.
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Spikes on March 23, 2022, 06:25:17 PM
Highly unlikely... it would take herculean force to hold the nose down in a jet when it would be trying naturally to pitch up.
True...but all it took was a computer malfunction on the MAX.
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Busher on March 23, 2022, 06:56:41 PM
True...but all it took was a computer malfunction on the MAX.

I thought the 737MAX discussion was put to bed; and remember the MAX crashes included a lot more errors than just the MCAS.
The accident airplane was not a MAX and has no MCAS system installed.
Be happy that the Chinese authorities are including the NTSB in the investigation.
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 23, 2022, 07:25:05 PM
sorry, but the jumping to conspiracy theories triggers me.

No conspiracy theory here... yet ;) just stating I thought it was weird a camera caught the last 2 seconds of it in rural China. I guess they really do have cameras everywhere.  :noid
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: guncrasher on March 23, 2022, 09:04:46 PM
No conspiracy theory here... yet ;) just stating I thought it was weird a camera caught the last 2 seconds of it in rural China. I guess they really do have cameras everywhere.  :noid

when companies switched from cash accounting to make up accounting is when I quit being an accountant.  sorry I meant accrual accounting. which is the same as make up accounting.

and yes you do need to know a bit of math and algebra if you want to be an accountant.  after all 2+2 = 4 is not always true.


semp
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Puma44 on March 23, 2022, 10:48:27 PM
True...but all it took was a computer malfunction on the MAX.

….and a less than optimum pilot reaction.
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: TyFoo on March 23, 2022, 10:50:09 PM
I was always under the impression that FAR 25 placed a maximum time limit to accomplish an ED from Max Certified altitude but all I have been able to find was this:
 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK207481/

I thought the time limit was based on O2 requirements? Max Cert Operating Altitude down to 10,000ft at or under 10 min.

Also the 737NG from about 1998 - 1999 and newer use the STS system, while the Max uses MCAS. I am not familiar with MCAS other that what I have read but I believe the logic is very similar in both systems.
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 24, 2022, 05:20:54 AM
Violator is an example of  person that doesn't take their meds.  He is a full on Qanon, tin foil hat wearing member.  He believes Democrats are cannibalistic pedophiles and the word "Pasta" is a code word for these "pedophile cannibals". 

He sees a vast conspiracy everywhere.  If someone farts,, he believes it was because of some vast conspiracy to bring in the New World Order and eat babies.
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: LCADolby on March 24, 2022, 05:40:32 AM
Violator is an example of  person that doesn't take their meds.  He is a full on Qanon, tin foil hat wearing member.  He believes Democrats are cannibalistic pedophiles and the word "Pasta" is a code word for these "pedophile cannibals". 

He sees a vast conspiracy everywhere.  If someone farts,, he believes it was because of some vast conspiracy to bring in the New World Order and eat babies.

 :rofl :rofl

I blame an inattentive care worker. :old:
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Eagler on March 24, 2022, 06:24:41 AM
Somewhere between you and him is the actual truth

Both are needed to find it

You seem happy to poke him so you can make more useless and antagonistic posts as above

Eagler
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 24, 2022, 06:35:03 AM
Ack Ack doesn't want to admit that Espstein island is real and so is Hunter Bidens and Weiners laptop.

Why are you covering up for Pedos ackack? Sounds like you are the ones who sick in the head.
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: RotBaron on March 24, 2022, 06:49:33 AM
Bohemian Grove.

Do I know what really has taken place there and currently goes on, no.

Do you?
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Shuffler on March 24, 2022, 07:16:03 AM
True...but all it took was a computer malfunction on the MAX.


On the Max it was a pilot malfunction. The computer worked as designed.
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Eagler on March 24, 2022, 07:19:22 AM
Bohemian Grove.

Do I know what really has taken place there and currently goes on, no.

Do you?

Probably don't want to know

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/bohemian-grove-where-the-rich-and-powerful-go-to-misbehave/2011/06/15/AGPV1sVH_blog.html

Ignorance is bliss

Eagler
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Spikes on March 24, 2022, 07:22:25 AM
The accident airplane was not a MAX and has no MCAS system installed.
Yes we've already determined that to be fact.


All I am saying is, all it took was a glitch in the system/faulty sensors to present the 'herculean force' and hold the nose down.
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 24, 2022, 07:25:51 AM
Bohemian Grove.

Do I know what really has taken place there and currently goes on, no.

Do you?

A secret society that worships the owl of Minerva and do some sick stuff out there.

Here's just how powerful Minerva is to the cult of DC.

(https://i.ibb.co/Sxkwscp/Screenshot-20220324-082203-Chrome.jpg)

Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 24, 2022, 08:10:16 AM
when companies switched from cash accounting to make up accounting is when I quit being an accountant.  sorry I meant accrual accounting. which is the same as make up accounting.

and yes you do need to know a bit of math and algebra if you want to be an accountant.  after all 2+2 = 4 is not always true.


semp

The basic premise for accrual accounting is for companies to have a longer period of time to pay their bills. Normally it's a net30. Also, a company may want to enter a bill in a current month that hasn't been given to them yet. This allows companies to have Accounts payable and accounts receivable. Normally you have to have some type of credit proof if you want companies to give you a credit account for AR. There is nothing wrong with it. It's just some companies can try to get away with creating faux invoices (AR) that shows they earned more revenue than they actually did. This is fraud. The real reason that companies use accrual base accounting is for organizing what they owe and what they should receive, and it will help them pay their bills based on their cash flow and analyze their actual expenses for the month even if they haven't received the bill yet. Cash accounting would make it harder to organize and see the real business expense/revenue for the current month.

Accounting is 80% organization, 15% knowledge of Debits and Credits and how the PL and BS work, and 5% actual math. In accounting, it's more like 2-2=0, as there is an equal and opposite reaction to every transaction that balances out. I'd say it's mostly basic simple mathematics. It doesn't matter how good you are at complex calculus or how much you think you know about how accounting works, if you are not organized with your files and desk management, or know where you put things into an account. You will not be a good accountant. The #1 thing accounting is useful for as an individual is organizing and understanding your money and cash flow so you can grow your self monetarily, just like a business. That is after all why they call them "Organizations".
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: TryHard on March 24, 2022, 12:03:07 PM
What the hell does this have to do with a plane crash
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Puma44 on March 24, 2022, 05:37:00 PM
What the hell does this have to do with a plane crash


It’s called….

(https://i.postimg.cc/sXHz3GFS/02-DB10-DC-84-CB-49-CB-A7-EC-CF43-F7-B923-EA.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Volron on March 24, 2022, 10:03:21 PM
(https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-31-2015/iKBCzk.gif)
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Toad on March 27, 2022, 11:50:12 AM
I recall Toad that you also fly (or flew) professionally as well?

Yes. Still instructing too.

Quote
Nothing that I flew could descend at any more than 8000 ft./min in full ED configuration. I never flew any of the 737's but the sailplane like wings on the NG version, I suspect it might struggle to get down in a hurry.

I flew the 737-800. Yes, it was a bit tougher to get it to slow down and go down simultaneously. The way they set us up going into KSLC from a downwind visual pattern could easily result in either overspeeding the flaps or going around. Or both, LOL! We finally got through to the approach controllers that you didn't slam dunk this airplane.

Anyway, all I'm saying is just looking at the profile....disregard the timeline/speed/whatever...it looks like the typical ED graph with an overshoot of the 10k target and attempted recovery back towards 10k.

I'm SURE there will be more to it than that but a quick glance at a graph like that does seem similar to an ED.
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Puma44 on March 28, 2022, 05:24:01 PM
You can slow down or go down in a 737 but, not both at the same time.  Despite its appearance, the 737 is very aerodynamically clean and slippery.
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Busher on March 28, 2022, 05:28:51 PM
You can slow down or go down in a 737 but, not both at the same time.  Despite its appearance, the 737 is very aerodynamically clean and slippery.

I believe most of the newer Boeings are like that. 250 KIAS, clean, idle thrust yields a typical max 1500fpm. No idea what the French jets do.
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Puma44 on March 28, 2022, 11:24:40 PM
I believe most of the newer Boeings are like that. 250 KIAS, clean, idle thrust yields a typical max 1500fpm. No idea what the French jets do.

My time in -100, -200, -300, -500, -700, & -800 models consistently demonstrated the slow down or go down mantra.  The nice thing about the NGs is the higher flap extension speeds which makes for a handy way of descending more aggressively in the traffic pattern when needed.  NGs with the glass panels and advanced technology were my favorite.  The -100 & -200 were the best as far as hand flying goes.  Very responsive, almost fighter like feeling to it but, with lots of clocks and old stone and chisel technology.

“If ain’t Boeing, I ain’t going!”
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Toad on March 31, 2022, 10:45:36 AM
An interesting bit on the pilots:  https://www.theepochtimes.com/pilots-mental-state-a-potential-cause-of-crash-of-chinas-eastern-airlines-flight-mu5735-expert-says_4373924.html

"...According to information made available to the public, Yang Hongda, the captain of the crashed plane, was only 32 years old with a total flight time of 6,709 hours, while Zhang Zhengping, the first co-pilot, was 59 years old with a total flight time of over 32,500 hours.

Gao said it is highly unusual for Yang to be the captain when he had only flown for less than 7,000 hours. According to the airline’s code of conduct, a senior like Zhang would be the captain, and Yang would be Zhang’s apprentice at best, Gao said, adding that this was counterintuitive and should be the other way around...."
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Puma44 on March 31, 2022, 10:54:11 AM
An interesting bit on the pilots:  https://www.theepochtimes.com/pilots-mental-state-a-potential-cause-of-crash-of-chinas-eastern-airlines-flight-mu5735-expert-says_4373924.html

"...According to information made available to the public, Yang Hongda, the captain of the crashed plane, was only 32 years old with a total flight time of 6,709 hours, while Zhang Zhengping, the first co-pilot, was 59 years old with a total flight time of over 32,500 hours.

Gao said it is highly unusual for Yang to be the captain when he had only flown for less than 7,000 hours. According to the airline’s code of conduct, a senior like Zhang would be the captain, and Yang would be Zhang’s apprentice at best, Gao said, adding that this was counterintuitive and should be the other way around...."

Possible that Zhang was a Training Captain/Check Airman similar to how our airlines conduct UOE flights?
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Toad on April 01, 2022, 03:46:47 PM
The article didn't mention that on this flight. Apparently there had been an airline merger with Zhang coming in from the failing/failed company.

If you've been in the biz very long, you've probably heard 100 How I Got Screwed In The Merger stories. They mention Zhang took a very large pay cut.

The article says the pilots that didn't like the merged list/new pay were doing some pretty out of bounds stuff like not landing at destination and returning to point of origin claiming wx, etc.

So there's some speculation this had something to do with that kind of stuff. Maybe we will see if China puts out the FDR and Voice Recorder data.
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Puma44 on April 01, 2022, 04:03:19 PM
Very interesting.
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Shuffler on April 01, 2022, 04:48:56 PM
The article didn't mention that on this flight. Apparently there had been an airline merger with Zhang coming in from the failing/failed company.

If you've been in the biz very long, you've probably heard 100 How I Got Screwed In The Merger stories. They mention Zhang took a very large pay cut.

The article says the pilots that didn't like the merged list/new pay were doing some pretty out of bounds stuff like not landing at destination and returning to point of origin claiming wx, etc.

So there's some speculation this had something to do with that kind of stuff. Maybe we will see if China puts out the FDR and Voice Recorder data.
The experienced copilot was actually at the successful company. The successful company was forced to merge with the company that was failing. The people running the failing company being placed in charge of the merged company.
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Busher on April 01, 2022, 05:29:06 PM
The experienced copilot was actually at the successful company. The successful company was forced to merge with the company that was failing. The people running the failing company being placed in charge of the merged company.

Makes about as much sense as most of the airline managements I was exposed to for 36 years. I hope this crap was not a contributor to the tragedy.
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Shuffler on April 01, 2022, 08:39:58 PM
The copilot had been a very high-ranking captain, even training many other very successful pilots who became captains. No explanation why he was demoted, but it meant that he was making less than 1/3 of what he was per year.
Title: Re: 737 Crash
Post by: Mister Fork on April 01, 2022, 11:12:54 PM
Crash by suicide or 'pissed off senior pilot' fighting with a younger captain and took it out on the plane.