Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: MiloMorai on May 15, 2022, 10:07:51 PM
-
https://www.quora.com/Was-Hitlers-Nazi-party-left-wing-or-right-wing
"Let's all get one thing straight people. The Nazis were a far right party in every sense of the definition. Calling them left wing is not just wrong but insane. It shows a complete lack of even the most basic, foundational knowledge of politics, as well as any knowledge of the Nazi party.
Second thing to get straight: Yes, Hitler called his party "the National Socialist" party, but using the word socialist in his party DID NOT mean that he in any way incorporated socialist policies."
"The name of the party is irrelevant.
Socialist was a key buzzword in the early years of the Weimar Republic and was included to suggest that they represented and were on the side of the common man. At the time, socialism was defined above all by public (government, provincial or municipal) ownership of the means of production. Those who claim that the Nazis were socialists really ought to name the industries and enterprises that the Nazis took into public ownership."
-
Can you point out some examples of Americans saying that Hitler and Nazis are leftist? I don't recall ever hearing any of that.
What I do hear is Liberals in America calling everyone that doesn't agree with them Nazis.
-
https://www.quora.com/Was-Hitlers-Nazi-party-left-wing-or-right-wing
"Let's all get one thing straight people. The Nazis were a far right party in every sense of the definition. Calling them left wing is not just wrong but insane. It shows a complete lack of even the most basic, foundational knowledge of politics, as well as any knowledge of the Nazi party.
Second thing to get straight: Yes, Hitler called his party "the National Socialist" party, but using the word socialist in his party DID NOT mean that he in any way incorporated socialist policies."
"The name of the party is irrelevant.
Socialist was a key buzzword in the early years of the Weimar Republic and was included to suggest that they represented and were on the side of the common man. At the time, socialism was defined above all by public (government, provincial or municipal) ownership of the means of production. Those who claim that the Nazis were socialists really ought to name the industries and enterprises that the Nazis took into public ownership."
The problem, Milo, is that the people claiming the Nazi's are leftist aren't concerned with the truth of the matter. They only want to associate Naziism with Liberalism and the "Socialist" part of the Nazi party name is pretty much the only "fact" to pin that association to.
-
What books have you read of said period?
Please do not get annoyed.
Books seem to anger a lot of Americans.
Just one title would be a start.
Please do not use wikidiot for said title of book :)
-
So where are you from Milo? The way you write I figured you are American…
This question and argument is nowhere close to as simple as the reply quoted and first in the link.
Matter of fact the response after that one is really good imo:
‘ Unlike how most people act about this question, this is a rather complex and difficult question. Some say Nazism and Hitler was absolutely 100% right wing nut-case movement, just pure right wing insanity. Others say he was a left wing socialist.
One thing I’d like to point out before actually starting writing, I have noticed greatly that Left wingers will constantly and un-relentingly claim Hitler’s right wing views, and right wingers with almost equally claim hitler’s left wing views. This isn’t that simple of a question people!
To say Hitler was left or right is a great assumption and a dangerous one at that, for Hitler showed both right and left wing values.’
This could be a good discussion and go on for quite awhile, however I imagine it’ll be locked before I wake up.
-
Can you point out some examples of Americans saying that Hitler and Nazis are leftist? I don't recall ever hearing any of that.
What I do hear is Liberals in America calling everyone that doesn't agree with them Nazis.
And Fascists. Or Racist. Or Misogynists. Or White Supremacist. White supremacy is apparently on an upswing in America, but despite the fact that I've been white all my life (mostly, my dna analysis says 2% African, so there's that) and I only know one person who is a white supremacist, and he's a jerk.
When I did the DNA thing, I was really hoping for Native American so I could declare the farm tribal lands and open a casino. Didn't happen.
-
When I did the DNA thing, I was really hoping for Native American so I could declare the farm tribal lands and open a casino. Didn't happen.
Not to mention the mescaline ceremony :cheers:
-
I am brownish white depending on various factors :)
-
Can you point out some examples of Americans saying that Hitler and Nazis are leftist? I don't recall ever hearing any of that.
What I do hear is Liberals in America calling everyone that doesn't agree with them Nazis.
People try to fit square pegs in round holes. The Left vs Right continuum lacks historical perspective. Left VS Right now vs left vs Right of 20 years ago or 40 years ago. How is Left or Right now, or each of those 20 year segments consistent? They are not really, they are continuums of relativity.
It's easy to try to force Nazis into "Right" now but if you look at what they said and did then they were indeed Socialists. The most honest way to look at political frameworks is Libertarianism vs Authoritarianism. If you do that things fit together clearly without the mental gymnastics you have to go through to fit things in the framework of Left vs Right in todays perspective.
The Nazis were Socialist but had their own flavor that continued to change over time. That does not make them Left or Right. It makes them Authoritarians.
-
https://www.quora.com/Was-Hitlers-Nazi-party-left-wing-or-right-wing
"Let's all get one thing straight people. The Nazis were a far right party in every sense of the definition. Calling them left wing is not just wrong but insane. It shows a complete lack of even the most basic, foundational knowledge of politics, as well as any knowledge of the Nazi party.
Second thing to get straight: Yes, Hitler called his party "the National Socialist" party, but using the word socialist in his party DID NOT mean that he in any way incorporated socialist policies."
"The name of the party is irrelevant.
Socialist was a key buzzword in the early years of the Weimar Republic and was included to suggest that they represented and were on the side of the common man. At the time, socialism was defined above all by public (government, provincial or municipal) ownership of the means of production. Those who claim that the Nazis were socialists really ought to name the industries and enterprises that the Nazis took into public ownership."
I believe than when a nation becomes as polarized as the United States, it's natural (and self-serving) to align your opponents with the most abhorrent figures of history.
-
I believe than when a nation becomes as polarized as the United States, it's natural (and self-serving) to align your opponents with the most abhorrent figures of history.
Divisiveness is a key component of propaganda. It is how you break apart otherwise functioning societies so you can restructure them to your advantage.
-
Divisiveness is a key component of propaganda. It is how you break apart otherwise functioning societies so you can restructure them to your advantage.
Who and or what is the most divisive group/element in the nation currently? (Don't forget to project.)
-
Divisiveness is a key component of propaganda. It is how you break apart otherwise functioning societies so you can restructure them to your advantage.
Your statement's hidden message - that there are bad people trying to do bad things - proves my point.
-
Division
It is what is needed and what our leaders crave
As long as we are busy throwing stones at each other they get away with murder
They have been proven to be inept, corrupt and bias - all of them.
Term limits would be a great start to correct it...
Eagler
-
Your statement's hidden message - that there are bad people trying to do bad things - proves my point.
Ya, we never disagreed.
-
You guys have it all wrong.
Any form of government that imposes its will against a nation is left wing by virtue, you are forcing citizens to bend to the will of the government in order to "protect" society from gangs and thieves, or other countries trying to take your announced land.
Government must be run by a group that establishes itself, and forces people to acknowledge its existence and laws. This is inherently a left wing ideology.
Now, you can have all sorts of governments who are more or less authoritative on how they control their population. This is where the left vs right argument comes into play. How much power does the government have over the individual and vice versa? Who pays regulations, who pays taxes, who owns the land, who owns property, ect. This puts people into whether they have a more conservative view of government control, normally less regulation, taxes, and has ownership of property along with more individual rights. OR liberal control, the opposite of that where people are forced to give up their ownership and have little control over their individual movement. Much like we saw with the recent lockdowns. Government removed your individual rights to run your business and in some countries, couldn't even go out in public for too far.
Any type of government that forces its will on the people using government force is inherently Liberal. Nazism is inherently a left wing ideology because it is government using its force to control business, control people's lives, remove religion so as to make the leader such as Hitler the Supreme ruler of your soul. Hitler used his government to force people to live a certain way. Or you have theocratic governments that force you to believe the religion and is forced upon the population using fear tactics like Sharia Law. This is government forcing you against your individual will to follow what you want. Its left in nature because the individual does not have a choice to live how they want or own what they want.
Hitler was extremely authoritarian with his government and murdered people who didn't follow his government. This is a leftest approach to government and always has been, whether you look at Stalin, Mao, Mussolini, and strict Islamic countries. Hitler was not conservative because he did not allow individuals to practice free thought and did not allow individuals to change how his government would operate through elections. Totalitarian control by a government is always left wing because it's government forcing individuals how to live.
-
You guys have it all wrong.
I apologize for deleting most of your quote, but if I were to include it in its entirety, then this post would be cumbersome, at best. I disagree with the way you use 'authoritarian' and 'liberal' interchangeably.
Liberalism, by definition, is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, while Authoritarianism is essentially the enforcement of strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom.
Theocracies, monarchies, democracies are all forms of government that can be either authoritarian or liberal in their practice. It usually remains up to the individuals, or political parties, in power to determine exactly in which direction, and how far, they want the government to follow either philosophy.
To quote Lord Achton, "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely." Therefore, you don't see any benevolent tyrants or dictators. Even in the banana republics, where governments have been overthrown in order to replace a tyrannical dictator with a benevolent one, they tend to devolve from 'the rights of the people' to the 'rights of the government.'
Otherwise, a well presented point. :salute
-
You guys have it all wrong.
Any form of government that imposes its will against a nation is left wing by virtue, you are forcing citizens to bend to the will of the government in order to "protect" society from gangs and thieves, or other countries trying to take your announced land.
Government must be run by a group that establishes itself, and forces people to acknowledge its existence and laws. This is inherently a left wing ideology.
Now, you can have all sorts of governments who are more or less authoritative on how they control their population. This is where the left vs right argument comes into play. How much power does the government have over the individual and vice versa? Who pays regulations, who pays taxes, who owns the land, who owns property, ect. This puts people into whether they have a more conservative view of government control, normally less regulation, taxes, and has ownership of property along with more individual rights. OR liberal control, the opposite of that where people are forced to give up their ownership and have little control over their individual movement. Much like we saw with the recent lockdowns. Government removed your individual rights to run your business and in some countries, couldn't even go out in public for too far.
Any type of government that forces its will on the people using government force is inherently Liberal. Nazism is inherently a left wing ideology because it is government using its force to control business, control people's lives, remove religion so as to make the leader such as Hitler the Supreme ruler of your soul. Hitler used his government to force people to live a certain way. Or you have theocratic governments that force you to believe the religion and is forced upon the population using fear tactics like Sharia Law. This is government forcing you against your individual will to follow what you want. Its left in nature because the individual does not have a choice to live how they want or own what they want.
Hitler was extremely authoritarian with his government and murdered people who didn't follow his government. This is a leftest approach to government and always has been, whether you look at Stalin, Mao, Mussolini, and strict Islamic countries. Hitler was not conservative because he did not allow individuals to practice free thought and did not allow individuals to change how his government would operate through elections. Totalitarian control by a government is always left wing because it's government forcing individuals how to live.
Please educate yourself. Ignorance is the greatest threat to our country and the lack of education is being exploited. National Socialism/Fascism are far-right ideologies. Communism is a far left. Totalitarianism/Authoritarianism exists on both ends of the spectrum. Very generalized answer so I suggest reading more on it if you would like to avoid looking very ignorant when posting.
-
Otherwise, a well presented point. :salute
Suggest you educate yourself too.
-
You guys have it all wrong.
Any form of government that imposes its will against a nation is left wing by virtue, you are forcing citizens to bend to the will of the government in order to "protect" society from gangs
Any type of government that forces its will on the people using government force is inherently Liberal. Nazism is inherently a left wing ideology because it is government using its force to control business, control people's lives, remove religion so as to make the leader such as Hitler the Supreme ruler of your soul.
Are there no examples of Authoritarianism that is not left wing? I'm pretty sure there are a lot of them through history. If you look at how I defined it, they all fit. Looking at how you define it, I don't think you can make it fit together. That is why I have been saying that Authoritarian governments, and this include Socialists to one degree or another, can be Left or Right since those two terms are relative and not philosophies or political constructs in of themselves.
-
I apologize for deleting most of your quote, but if I were to include it in its entirety, then this post would be cumbersome, at best. I disagree with the way you use 'authoritarian' and 'liberal' interchangeably.
Liberalism, by definition, is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, while Authoritarianism is essentially the enforcement of strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom.
Theocracies, monarchies, democracies are all forms of government that can be either authoritarian or liberal in their practice. It usually remains up to the individuals, or political parties, in power to determine exactly in which direction, and how far, they want the government to follow either philosophy.
To quote Lord Achton, "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely." Therefore, you don't see any benevolent tyrants or dictators. Even in the banana republics, where governments have been overthrown in order to replace a tyrannical dictator with a benevolent one, they tend to devolve from 'the rights of the people' to the 'rights of the government.'
Otherwise, a well presented point. :salute
He was completely wrong otherwise a well presented point? :)
-
He was completely wrong otherwise a well presented point? :)
Yes. In the course of my life I've met many people who can eloquently present a point that is completely false. I've also met people who are entirely correct but fail miserably in their ability to present their ideas rationally.
A rational presentation and an irrational point of discussion are not mutually exclusive.
-
Yes. In the course of my life I've met many people who can eloquently present a point that is completely false. I've also met people who are entirely correct but fail miserably in their ability to present their ideas rationally.
A rational presentation and an irrational point of discussion are not mutually exclusive.
I believe they are quite exclusive. One may be eloquently irrational, I suppose, but not rationally irrational. It comes off as an effort to pretend nonsense is sense, to me. I will again show my appreciation for your gentlemanly manner, however.
-
it all boils down to the "Depravity of Man". :bolt:
-
https://www.abc.net.au/religion/nazism-socialism-and-the-falsification-of-history/10214302
-
If you have a child, grand child, or like in my case, great grand children that need diapers and formula, you should be upset about all of it the government has stashed in warehouses at the border for non-Americans. All at our expense and all for criminals.