General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: nopoop on March 27, 2023, 08:38:04 PM
Title: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: nopoop on March 27, 2023, 08:38:04 PM
Besides the grenades and the 105mm, I have a single action Colt 45, a 32 Winchester and a few black powder pistols. I have nothing that I would use in home defense. The 45 and 32 bullets would end up in the house across the street. So I'm thinkin a 12 gauge. Not a long gun. A shorty.
This one or something along these lines. What you have or not ?
(https://i.imgur.com/9426w9y.jpg)
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: Arlo on March 27, 2023, 08:45:12 PM
I live in a safer environment. :old:
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: JimmyD3 on March 27, 2023, 08:53:47 PM
While I don’t have a GSD I do have a well trained bulldog. He’s much larger than most English bulldogs and he comes from Euro stock that was bred for working and not the show ring.
He’s not quite to a personal protection dog level as he hurt his knee while working but he has all the commands down and I pity anyone who would attempt to put a hand on either my wife or I. 95lbs of beasty will be there to remove said hand.
:salute
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: Dadtallica on March 28, 2023, 09:12:37 AM
While I don’t have a GSD I do have a well trained bulldog. He’s much larger than most English bulldogs and he comes from Euro stock that was bred for working and not the show ring.
He’s not quite to a personal protection dog level as he hurt his knee while working but he has all the commands down and I pity anyone who would attempt to put a hand on either my wife or I. 95lbs of beauty will be there to remove said hand.
:salute
At the very least they will give us time to make a move or get away. If you’re going to shoot them you better do it super fast and not miss because they will be all over you in a New York minute.
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: Eagler on March 28, 2023, 09:21:36 AM
A pit bull and 9mm glock
Pray neither are ever used for self defense
Eagler
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: Bizman on March 28, 2023, 09:49:14 AM
Quote
Home defense. What' you have ?
A wife.
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: morfiend on March 28, 2023, 09:56:25 AM
I lean towards T or BB size shot as 00 may go through your rooms.
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: RotBaron on March 28, 2023, 11:43:34 AM
Some of you just can’t refrain from punting the topic :rolleyes:
Why even comment, seriously, why?
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: nopoop on March 28, 2023, 01:08:10 PM
And so......you punted it.
Lol
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: Meatwad on March 28, 2023, 01:59:30 PM
For close range, a 9mm and a 12ga.
The ones claiming they are in a safe environment and have no need to protect themselves are the ones that believe law enforcement will swoop in and save them. But when law enforcement is overwhelmed and certain domestic terrorist groups decide to come in and riot, loot, and destroy property in the name for "social justice", those same people would be cowering in fear and will say the police are at fault for not protecting them while just before they were demanding the police be defunded for being bullies towards criminals.
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: Arlo on March 28, 2023, 02:05:16 PM
The ones claiming they are in a safe environment and have no need to protect themselves are the ones that believe law enforcement will swoop in and save them. But when law enforcement is overwhelmed and certain domestic terrorist groups decide to come in and riot, loot, and destroy property in the name for "social justice", those same people would be cowering in fear and will say the police are at fault for not protecting them while just before they were demanding the police be defunded for being bullies towards criminals.
Interesting theory.
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: -gg- on March 28, 2023, 02:17:24 PM
In Canada you're not even allowed to defend yourself with any type of weapon, including pepper spray.
I don't have anything other than kitchen knives. I'd like to get a revolver.
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: Arlo on March 28, 2023, 02:21:57 PM
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: Arlo on March 28, 2023, 02:43:07 PM
I don't make a habit of sharing online what I have at my disposal for personal or home defense. I don't ask others to advertise, whether online or not what they have or don't, either. It's just not the wisest of things. :aok
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: -gg- on March 28, 2023, 02:50:10 PM
you're such a wise, wise man. So fascinating and wise.
:rolleyes:
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: Arlo on March 28, 2023, 02:51:37 PM
In Canada you're not even allowed to defend yourself with any type of weapon, including pepper spray.
I don't have anything other than kitchen knives. I'd like to get a revolver.
a lie about Canada.
semp
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: Shuffler on March 28, 2023, 03:03:55 PM
Depends on which room I happen to be in. I have at least one concealed gun in every room. Then there is my black lab. He does not like anyone but family.
I keep a Mossburgh 500 in my truck with 18 1/2" barrel and pistol grip. Then there is my carry. Won't even go into the safe.
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: The Fugitive on March 28, 2023, 03:09:30 PM
The ones claiming they are in a safe environment and have no need to protect themselves are the ones that believe law enforcement will swoop in and save them. But when law enforcement is overwhelmed and certain domestic terrorist groups decide to come in and riot, loot, and destroy property in the name for "social justice", those same people would be cowering in fear and will say the police are at fault for not protecting them while just before they were demanding the police be defunded for being bullies towards criminals.
You people must live in some really screwed up areas!
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: Meatwad on March 28, 2023, 03:20:13 PM
Half the country is a screwed up area due to justice reform laws that refuse to prosecute criminals
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: -gg- on March 28, 2023, 03:25:33 PM
Wrong again. You can't carry anything for the purpose of self defense. Even a pencil if you are intending to use it for self defense.
Canadians have a right to defend their property or themselves as long as their defensive actions are reasonable under the circumstances. This means that if you injure an intruder entering your home or property, you would need to show that the circumstances gave you no other reasonable choice.
big difference to not allowed in them sites you like.
semp
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: -gg- on March 28, 2023, 04:19:51 PM
I said carry. You cannot carry anything at all with the intent of using it in self defense.
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: Shuffler on March 28, 2023, 04:22:39 PM
I have no issues with folks who do not want to carry. It is their choice. We no longer put people with mental issues into institutions. They are out on the street. I choose to be able to protect my family and myself if one goes off the wagon. It could be anywhere, at any time. We all make our own choices.
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: Busher on March 28, 2023, 05:35:17 PM
Canadians have a right to defend their property or themselves as long as their defensive actions are reasonable under the circumstances. This means that if you injure an intruder entering your home or property, you would need to show that the circumstances gave you no other reasonable choice.
big difference to not allowed in them sites you like.
semp
Semp, I suspect you are likely not a Canadian. But you may be familiar with this incident that happened in Milton Ontario - a suburb of Toronto.
The intruder was armed and was killed. It remains to be seen what will result from the trial.
Besides the grenades and the 105mm, I have a single action Colt 45, a 32 Winchester and a few black powder pistols. I have nothing that I would use in home defense. The 45 and 32 bullets would end up in the house across the street. So I'm thinkin a 12 gauge. Not a long gun. A shorty.
This one or something along these lines. What you have or not ?
(https://i.imgur.com/9426w9y.jpg)
Bang for buck? Get yourself a mossberg 500 or if you like autoloaders a 930. Thank me later.
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: Lusche on March 29, 2023, 07:29:37 AM
0.50 NERF :old:
(https://i.imgur.com/B7ojRdl.jpeg)
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: knorB on March 29, 2023, 08:05:22 AM
A friend was handling his 30.06 in his livingroom. It went off...
It went through a stereo speaker, the outside wall and through the garage door across the street.
If I purchase a home defense weapon, it WILL be a shotgun
Friend of mine was showing us his 12 guage shotgun when it went off and blew a hole through the ceiling of his trailer
Doesn't matter what the weapon is if it isn't handled correctly
Eagler
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: CptTrips on March 29, 2023, 02:42:48 PM
Real men go for the knife kill...
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: Mister Fork on March 29, 2023, 02:45:16 PM
Jayzus nopoop - what kind of enemies do you have?
All I got is a couple bb guns to scare the orange male tabby cat away cause he keeps trying to have sex with my neutered female kitties. Might have to haul out the 16 gauge if that black bear from the park gets too close, or my fart gun to scare the next-door 10 year old lab when he chases my barn cats. Sure i own guns up the wazoo but they're not for personal protection.
If you need a ready-accessible guns to protect your family...maybe, just maybe... it's you?
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: GasTeddy on March 29, 2023, 03:47:02 PM
Neat and easy in video game, messy and hard in reality. "Excuse me, officer, the intruder is in garage. Except his head, it rolled down the driveway to the street".
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: CptTrips on March 29, 2023, 05:22:26 PM
Neat and easy in video game, messy and hard in reality. "Excuse me, officer, the intruder is in garage. Except his head, it rolled down the driveway to the street".
Worse. They probably don't have dog-tags to collect.
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: knorB on March 29, 2023, 06:31:33 PM
If you need a ready-accessible guns to protect your family...maybe, just maybe... it's you?
That's incredibly ignorant.
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: Meatwad on March 29, 2023, 07:28:09 PM
Using that logic, then if someone is a victim of a drunk driver, then its the victims fault for being in the path of the drunk driver, not the drunks fault for committing the crime of vehicular injury while being intoxicated.
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: Maverick on March 30, 2023, 10:25:26 AM
I know my opinion isn't going to be real popular but my background and training support it as well as actual building clearance experience. I do not like a long gun for CQB in the civilian sense of clearing an occupied building like your home. I much prefer a handgun.
For interior team tactics I think a non rifle caliber carbine is a decent choice vs full rifle caliber and or full sized rifle. I do like a shotgun but also shorter length for say clearing a commercial building where contact can range out to 10 to 20 yards or more. Again, if close quarters are the rule, like a grocery store then I prefer the handgun to avoid grappling over the weapon if you end up in arms reach of the suspect. The long gun can also be a real hazard when securing the perp because 2 hands are required to properly cuff the subject. Slings are nice but they are also convenient to use by the bad guy to try to control the wearer and or weapon in a fight.
Few civilians have any idea of how to hold the weapon in a ready position and how to "pie" corners without presenting the muzzle to anyone just out of sight around the corner / obstruction.
I'm also not a real big fan of weapon mounted lights for searching, especially if there are potential friendlies in the area being searched. Again I was trained before weapon lights were conceived as a tool to be used. I do believe they have a purpose but not for initial searching due to muzzling what ever you are lighting up. Yes I understand the concept of using the "edge of the light" rather than direct beam but you are still pointing the loud end in the general direction of what you are lighting up. Under stress bad things can and all to often do happen. If you have never been there in a deadly force situation and the stress it provides, you just do not really understand the situation. The eye typically is drawn to the brightest portion of the beam of light and the difference in brightness can make friendly ID or target detection less than optimal. I like the idea of a hand held flashlight to scan then present the weapon mounted light for targeting. Having the handheld light on a lanyard so you can just drop it and go to 2 hand hold on the handgun when appropriate is a good option to me.
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: GasTeddy on March 30, 2023, 02:16:01 PM
I know my opinion isn't going to be real popular but my background and training support it as well as actual building clearance experience. I do not like a long gun for CQB in the civilian sense of clearing an occupied building like your home. I much prefer a handgun.
Well, at least I find it very reasonable, pretty much for same reason.
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: Firetech on March 30, 2023, 04:53:35 PM
Pretty sure most guys in here can also bench press 500lbs.
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: guncrasher on March 30, 2023, 05:55:58 PM
In Florida it is now legal to 'conceal carry' without a permit.
except.......
semp
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: icepac on April 04, 2023, 10:24:14 AM
If you didn't say "hidden observation cameras and a way to monitor any radio frequency from 60 meters to uhf", you will likely be donating your guns to "the enemy".
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: -gg- on April 04, 2023, 09:12:37 PM
except they still have plenty of safe zones. thought you said they don't work.
semp
every single time someone decided to shoot up a "safe zone" they didn't work. Not sure how it's supposed to work when anyone can just walk in and start shooting - with no other armed good citizen around to stop it.
Could it be that people who feel like shooting up a school don't really care that guns are "not allowed" ?
Safe zones never saved anyone from anything.
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: GasTeddy on April 05, 2023, 03:26:38 AM
every single time someone decided to shoot up a "safe zone" they didn't work. Not sure how it's supposed to work when anyone can just walk in and start shooting - with no other armed good citizen around to stop it.
Could it be that people who feel like shooting up a school don't really care that guns are "not allowed" ?
US lawmakers have to follow European example and declare illegal guns as forbidden. I was told by one genius it helps... :headscratch:
Quote
Safe zones never saved anyone from anything.
They may have saved some (m)ass shooters life for a moment as there hasn't been any armed good citizen to eliminate that con.
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: knorB on April 05, 2023, 08:57:52 AM
every single time someone decided to shoot up a "safe zone" they didn't work. Not sure how it's supposed to work when anyone can just walk in and start shooting - with no other armed good citizen around to stop it.
Could it be that people who feel like shooting up a school don't really care that guns are "not allowed" ?
Safe zones never saved anyone from anything.
Still waiting for a mass shooting to happen at a 3 gun tournament.
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: knorB on April 05, 2023, 09:02:22 AM
every single time someone decided to shoot up a "safe zone" they didn't work. Not sure how it's supposed to work when anyone can just walk in and start shooting - with no other armed good citizen around to stop it.
Could it be that people who feel like shooting up a school don't really care that guns are "not allowed" ?
Safe zones never saved anyone from anything.
totally agree with you. my question was why the state legislature made a safe zone for themselves. isn't it a bit funny.
semp
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: knorB on April 05, 2023, 04:09:19 PM
As long as no stupid sign, you can carry. You cannot drink, though. They passed this because it prohibited entering any place that served alcohol. So any restaurant that served alcohol was a no-go.
This is an enhanced license that lets you cc in area's not permitted. State Parks and public lands as an example.
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: Shuffler on April 06, 2023, 11:49:09 AM
Here we can enter any place as long as their main business is not serving alcohol.
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: icepac on April 07, 2023, 09:06:16 AM
What we need are "free gun zones".........where they give away guns.
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: knorB on April 07, 2023, 01:14:10 PM
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: Fencer51 on April 08, 2023, 07:18:45 AM
In the mid 70s, in a town of 12,000 in rural Indiana, I grew up living next door to my grandparents. On the other side of them was a rental home. Guy living there shot the landlord when he stopped in to check the property. Cops came and surrounded the place, they rubbed the aluminum siding removing the finish hugging the houses, you could tell for years after. I was at my grandparents next door to the shooting, huddled in a bedroom with my mom, and grandparents. Grandpa had his 12ga shotgun. More shots exchanged.. they killed him. He had a list of people he wanted to kill.. my family was on it. So were other neighbors. We never had any problems with the guy hardly knew him.
You just do not know who is next door to you, or their mental state. You are never safe.
Fast forward to 2017. Living in a new smallish suburban town near Indy, 20yrs here, safe quiet development. New neighbor moves in. One Saturday steps out of house with a hand gun, starts yelling he is going to kill all of us.. his wife is screaming as he threatens her. I call 911, and remain on the phone helping the police approach quietly, and help guide them to the correct house updating them. I hear all their tactical radios over the phone as the 911 operator asks me questions, relays questions. They surround the house, and take him into custody. I get questioned by the police... I got a copy of the report, which they redacted but I was able to remove that with a PDF editor... guy had a psychic break.. quit his meds.. told the officers he was god.. looked him up online.. he was not a Saint, previous crimes etc..
YOU NEVER KNOW..
Do I have home defense? You bet I do. The police responded both times, bless them, but they cannot be here all the time.
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: pallero on April 08, 2023, 10:36:42 AM
I did not say that Canadians cannot defend themselves; they cannot defend possessions - especially with deadly force.
Survey says ---- XXXX --- EEEEH!!!!
Section 35 of the criminal code clearly states the law regarding defense of property. Yes you CAN defend possessions, and the level of force required to do so escalates up the exact same force continuum that law enforcement are required to follow in Canada.
Quote
Defense of Personal Property
Assault by trespasser (2) Where a person who is in peaceable possession of personal property lays hands on it, a trespasser who persists in attempting to keep it or take it from him or from any one lawfully assisting him shall be deemed to commit an assault without justification or provocation. R.S., c. C-34, s. 38.
Defence with claim of right 39. (1) Every one who is in peaceable possession of personal property under a claim of right, and every one acting under his authority, is protected from criminal responsibility for defending that possession, even against a person entitled by law to possession of it, if he uses no more force than is necessary.
I know my opinion isn't going to be real popular but my background and training support it as well as actual building clearance experience. I do not like a long gun for CQB in the civilian sense of clearing an occupied building like your home. I much prefer a handgun.
For interior team tactics I think a non rifle caliber carbine is a decent choice vs full rifle caliber and or full sized rifle. I do like a shotgun but also shorter length for say clearing a commercial building where contact can range out to 10 to 20 yards or more. Again, if close quarters are the rule, like a grocery store then I prefer the handgun to avoid grappling over the weapon if you end up in arms reach of the suspect. The long gun can also be a real hazard when securing the perp because 2 hands are required to properly cuff the subject. Slings are nice but they are also convenient to use by the bad guy to try to control the wearer and or weapon in a fight.
Few civilians have any idea of how to hold the weapon in a ready position and how to "pie" corners without presenting the muzzle to anyone just out of sight around the corner / obstruction.
I'm also not a real big fan of weapon mounted lights for searching, especially if there are potential friendlies in the area being searched. Again I was trained before weapon lights were conceived as a tool to be used. I do believe they have a purpose but not for initial searching due to muzzling what ever you are lighting up. Yes I understand the concept of using the "edge of the light" rather than direct beam but you are still pointing the loud end in the general direction of what you are lighting up. Under stress bad things can and all to often do happen. If you have never been there in a deadly force situation and the stress it provides, you just do not really understand the situation. The eye typically is drawn to the brightest portion of the beam of light and the difference in brightness can make friendly ID or target detection less than optimal. I like the idea of a hand held flashlight to scan then present the weapon mounted light for targeting. Having the handheld light on a lanyard so you can just drop it and go to 2 hand hold on the handgun when appropriate is a good option to me.
I agree with many thoughts ^^above. There are lots of tools for the job, and being trained and staying proficient with all them is important as well IMO. Despite the large advantage in lethality that a shoulder supported weapon gives you, a handgun is easier to move with, not just in the above describe spaces, but also inside a vehicle. I spent a lot of time inside vehicles doing PSD work and training, and getting your handgun into the fight is always faster/simpler than your rifle, while inside of a typical vehicle.
Regarding white lights - I took Surefire's Low Light instructors course in 2005 and in 2009. I'm no longer current, but I did see the move from using a hand held white light versus white lights fixed to weapons. I prefer to have a white light mounted on my rifle, but also having a hand held to use with my handgun. I was trained both ways by probably the best in the business (certainly the best hardware), and there is times where either give you an advantage. A big one with a hand held light is that you can illuminate a room inside a typical structure by pointing the light straight at the roof, and engaging it. That has the effect of lighting up the entire room, while it also doesn't flag your position away nearly as much, as the source is pointing up and away from any potential threats. Try it yourself in the dark in a large room sometime.
If I was going to use a shoulder supported weapon inside of a home, it would be a 14" Shotgun or 11" AR platform. i have a 14" Mossberg 590 I've had for over 20 years now, with the speed stock and side saddle there are 14 rounds on the shotgun total. The advantages a handgun offers in urban CQB, as Maverick said, are something that should be considered as well.
Home defense is far more about what you have in terms of tools - having a good plan, rehearsing it with your family, and having things like hide out/fall back positions/rooms, body armor (cheap and available now, no reason to not have a set for every person in your home IMO), old cell phones in every room (you pay the 911 fee partially so that every phone, even ones without a plan activated, can contact 911, giving anyone in your home communication capability if they get pinned or trapped in any room in your home), and most importantly, first aid equipment and training on how to use it. If any threats or yourself/family are wounded, L/E frequently won't let EMTs in until the scene is "secure", meanwhile you could be bleeding out from a wound that a simple tourniquet or some quick clot could have stopped. Also, having simple things like inexpensive door jams/plates that prevent your door from being easily booted open, etc. A good dog gives a huge advantage both in early warning as well as being a fur missile too.
Since Canada has been brought up, another thing I'll mention regarding this country and its backwards at times laws, is that what something "looks like" has been a decider in court cases here before. If you smoke check home invaders with a tactical shotgun or a geared up AR platform, and when/if the prosecutor holds that up in court, most jurors will instantly think you're a wannabe commando nutcase. Whereas, say the same situation happens, but you used a surplus FR8 that looks like nothing more than an old antique wooden rifle to most jurors, it won't be as likely to have a negative impact on a possible conviction.
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: Oldman731 on April 25, 2023, 07:53:15 PM
Since Canada has been brought up, another thing I'll mention regarding this country and its backwards at times laws, is that what something "looks like" has been a decider in court cases here before. If you smoke check home invaders with a tactical shotgun or a geared up AR platform, and when/if the prosecutor holds that up in court, most jurors will instantly think you're a wannabe commando nutcase. Whereas, say the same situation happens, but you used a surplus FR8 that looks like nothing more than an old antique wooden rifle to most jurors, it won't be as likely to have a negative impact on a possible conviction.
I suspect this is true everywhere. I know it's what I'd think.
- oldman
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: Elfie on April 25, 2023, 11:33:07 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/hBnc05g.png)
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: Eagler on April 26, 2023, 07:42:16 AM
Son picked up an AK last weekend and a ton of ammo and clips with a 100 round drum
First time handling one
They seem rugged but primitive compared to his other modern assault rifles
If things went wonky his gun safe would be our 1st stop as my 9mm wouldn't be enough
Eagler
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: knorB on April 26, 2023, 08:37:33 AM
clips?
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: Eagler on April 26, 2023, 08:51:30 AM
Magazines loaded with ammo...piles of them
I did see where you should not store them loaded like that unless they have a dust cover on the top odmf them
Anyone know that to be true or just an ad for the dust covers?
Eagler
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: Maverick on April 26, 2023, 09:57:24 AM
Depends on where you are storing them. If it is a significant dust or debris area then yeah the dust cover makes sense. If it is inside a safe or even in a closed drawer no reason to have one. I have magazines that have been loaded for multiple years and no issue with anything clogging them up.
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: Shuffler on April 26, 2023, 03:40:15 PM
Magazines stored properly need no cover. Compression may be an issue for long periods of time and create feed issues.
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: icepac on May 03, 2023, 03:40:10 PM
A battlefield blinding laser.
Title: Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
Post by: Dichotomy on May 11, 2023, 06:01:18 PM
Mossburg 500 pistol grip and a 92fs. Got them about six weeks ago and, as I haven't actively shot in 30 years, I've spent that time familiarizing myself with the operation and safe handling until now (snap caps during the day. Live ordinance at night). Next weekend I have an appointment with a local range master to help me touch up technique and handling. A month later (after 5 weeks on the range every Saturday practicing with live ordinance) I have a friend of mine coming in to put me through a weekend of combat training.