Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: alskahawk on April 15, 2023, 06:18:51 PM
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I am looking to upgrade my worn out Ch Flightstick, Pro Throttle, Rudder pedals. So my question is; Is the Thrustmaster Warthog Hotas worth it. By worth it, I don't mean cost wise. Is there that big of an improvement performance wise over a CH system?
How about the Vipil sticks, throttles, rudder pedals? Better or worse than the Warthog? CH system?
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I went from CH, to Warthog, and then to first gen Virpil base, and throttle. I am not what you would call a Warthog fan. The throttle is okay, but I really wasn't happy with the stick. For several reasons.
I love my Virpil Mongoos T-50 base. I use the CM-2 grip, and a T-50 throttle. I have more buttons than I can use. The stick can be set up however I like feel wise. If you want a twisty stick you can get a grip that does that. The down side is the cost.
Virpil is at least a tier higher than a Warthog in both performance, and cost.
I can't speak to their pedals I've never used the Virpil pedals.
:salute
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That is the feeling I'm getting from reading the reviews etc. The Virpil stick is much better, the throttle is one of the best if not the best.
It will be a step up from my 10 year old equipment. Right now, the aircraft sticks in roll. Sometimes just locks up.
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Like I said, Virpil is top shelf, and you do pay for that.
That being said it also has outperformed every other stick I've ever had, from the Microsoft 3d pro to the CH Fighterstick.
The adjustability, the accuracy, and the stability are phenomenal. I've calibrated my stick, and throttle once since I built my current pc a year ago, and that was when I installed them.
I don't want to sound like some fan boi, but I bought my Mongoos stick and base when they first came out six or seven years ago, and I have no complaints with it in that time.
:cheers:
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I use the warthog jstick with the tm1600 throttle and ch pro peds
I had to solder a broken wire in the base after a couple of years of use but have not had any other issues with it
I run that setup with zero dead zones and all calibration steps at 100
Eagler
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I have had my Warthog soon 10 years, replaced one button a few years ago. hard springs though.
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I have had my Warthog soon 10 years, replaced one button a few years ago. hard springs though.
That's terrible.... get your money back. :P :rofl
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I have had my Warthog soon 10 years, replaced one button a few years ago. hard springs though.
I bought a new spring for mine. It is much softer and helps make smooth adjustments.
I'll see if I can find where I got it.
Found it HERE (https://warthog-extensions-by-sahaj.com/shop/warthog-green-springs/). Guy has great service. Mine got lost by shipping company and he shipped out another one as soon as I emailed him. Very pleased with both the service and the spring. Was easy to swap out too.
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I haven't thought the warthog springs were hard..
More like the ones in the X52 and TM1600 were way too soft
I like the steadiness and weight of the warthog stick
Eagler
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Many thanks !
Ordered both new spring and silicone ring !
I bought a new spring for mine. It is much softer and helps make smooth adjustments.
I'll see if I can find where I got it.
Found it HERE (https://warthog-extensions-by-sahaj.com/shop/warthog-green-springs/). Guy has great service. Mine got lost by shipping company and he shipped out another one as soon as I emailed him. Very pleased with both the service and the spring. Was easy to swap out too.
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Alskahawk,
If you are interested I have the following:
VKB Gladiator Gunfighter III Modern Combat Edition Ultimate
VKB Rudder Pedals MK. IV
Both Barely used.
$500.00 + shipping
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I am looking to upgrade my worn out Ch Flightstick, Pro Throttle, Rudder pedals. So my question is; Is the Thrustmaster Warthog Hotas worth it. By worth it, I don't mean cost wise. Is there that big of an improvement performance wise over a CH system?
How about the Vipil sticks, throttles, rudder pedals? Better or worse than the Warthog? CH system?
I posted this to Dichotomy's post on the same subject.
I would look at and consider WinWing .... It's around the same price point and most people say it's better than the warthog.
I replaced my CH Hotas+Rudder (gave it to my son) and I now use a Virpil Hotas + Rudder and Control Panel #1 with the WingWing Take Off and Combat Panels, 3 Cougar MFDs and a Custom UFC. Virpil gear is awsome but you do pay a premium for it.
CH is 8 bit analog potentiometer crap made by a company that couldn't care less (APEM Group which purchased CH back in 08). 8 bit gives you 256 possible positions to report per access. Every one today pretty much uses 16 bit magnetic Hall sensors for 65,536 possible positions per axis. The only CH gear I still have (I gave my hotas to my son) is the Throttle quadrant and pro yoke.
The Thrustmaster Warthog is the standard most are judged by it is by no means the best. WinWing is better for around the same price point and Virpil is top tier but very pricey and depending on your budget you may end up facing diminishing returns as in 175% the performance for 200% the price.
VKB has a really good stick with the VKB Gladiator Gunfighter III Modern Combat Edition Ultimate However, they do not have a matching throttle and the pedals are torque pedals that lack toe brakes. The have their NXT line which has a throttle but its cheaper, lower end plastic .... Better then CH more modular at about the same price point but not as good as a warthog/winwing/virpil or the high end VKB Gladiator Gunfighter line.
If you wanted to set up a Frankenstein Hotas I would consider taking Noman up on his offer (if you don't need toe brakes) and tossing in a Virpil CM3 throttle but that is going to put your cost at nearly a grand.
If I was going to set up a Frankenstein Hotas I would go with the VKB Gladiator Gunfighter III Modern Combat Edition Ultimate or a Virpil CM3 base with the Alpha Prime Grip, the virpil Cm3 Throttle, and the Thrustmaster TPR Pendular rudder pedals with a damper mod, but that's me and my preferences. Millage may vary.
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I have a pretty large Hotas collection, going back to the first TM stuff I got back in the 386 PC days. CH is still a favorite of mine, I have a pre 08 set of USB Fighterstick/throttle/peds still going strong. I do have some of the post 08 gear too, and it's hit or miss, the internals can look like a drunk person assembled/soldered/etc them, or sometimes it's decent. I still find the smooth/ease of movement of the Fighterstick to be unmatched for games like AH where you're yanking the stick around a LOT.
TM Warthog/Cougar - it's still decent gear, but beware of the sticktion/wear issues of the Warthog stick, google it and you'll get the phone book, but it's relatively simple and cheap to deal with. I still love the metal F16/A10 stick, and frequently use that grip on a Virpil Wrbrd base (best bang/$ out there IMO).
One option I haven't gotten around to collecting yet is the products from RealSimulator. That's more about a bad experience I had dealing with their support than their products, which work well from what I've read. Apparently their grips are garbage for the $ though, so if you go that route probably stick to their bases, and add a TM grip/whatever instead of their cheaply made in house grips.
I do agree with Mayhem in terms of a frankenHotas setup - VKB's Gunfighter is the best desktop stick available IMO, but a narrow margin over the Wrbrd/CM2/3 from Virpil. Virpil's throttle(s) are without competitor really, I have all 3 versions of their throttle, all are good to go. edit - to be fair WinWing also has throttles available now, and I have one of their F16 ones coming to use in place of the Cougar one I have for my F16 sim setup. I've read a lot of QA complaints with Winwing, support issues in terms of getting into contact with them regularly as well, but that's all just forum posts, I have no personal experience with them yet.
Pedals, I find myself using the VKB pedals more often than the others I have (Virpil x2, Slaw x2, MFG, CH, Saitek, TM), and they are by far the least expensive option. Virpil came out a couple years ago with a similar set to the VKB with clutches, but I still prefer the VKB ones. Very precise due to the motion being a bit more of a fine motor skill from the ankle as opposed to a more gross motor skill motion from the knee/leg.
One thing I can't recommend enough is to check the used sections on various sim/gaming forums, as well as whatever "big" sales web apps there are in your area. Using FB Marketplace, kijiji.ca (Canada), as well as 1/2 dozen gaming sites (also Ebay, forgot about that, but generally it sucks) - I pick off great deals on used hotas all the time. I've found brand new CH USB Fighterstick/Throttle so cheap that it cost me more in shipping than it did to buy them (IIRC it was around 40 or 50$ CDN total, so like 3 dollars USD/real money). I recently added a like new Saitek x65F hotas for $100, and they are very tough to find in good/working order nowadays.
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Alskahawk,
If you are interested I have the following:
VKB Gladiator Gunfighter III Modern Combat Edition Ultimate
VKB Rudder Pedals MK. IV
Both Barely used.
$500.00 + shipping
Is the VKB stick a Gladiator or Gunfighter, they are 2 different sticks. I'm guessing it's a Gunfighter mk 3 here - https://www.vkbcontrollers.com/products/gunfighter-mk-iii-modern-combat-edition-ultimate
If it is, your price is extremely good, adding a throttle of some kind to this would be about as good a deal as one can find for this gear right now IMO.
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The actual sticks aside does anyone have experience of the following baseplate?:-
https://www.amazon.com/HOTAS-Magnetic-Base-compatible-detachable-Thrustmaster/dp/B07ZPP57DD/ref=sr_1_3?crid=16FQ45YNI820R&keywords=Hotas+Magnetic+Base&qid=1688581670&sprefix=hotas+magnetic+base%2Caps%2C345&sr=8-3
It states Hall-effect sensors but looks like a simple balljoint compared to the separate pivoting axis of a CH stick. Anyone know if the feel is good? Precision noticable? My Sidewinder is FUBAR because of backlash now so I don't prefer this design.
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I'll be changing out my CH stuff pretty soon. Might even jump to VR.
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The actual sticks aside does anyone have experience of the following baseplate?:-
https://www.amazon.com/HOTAS-Magnetic-Base-compatible-detachable-Thrustmaster/dp/B07ZPP57DD/ref=sr_1_3?crid=16FQ45YNI820R&keywords=Hotas+Magnetic+Base&qid=1688581670&sprefix=hotas+magnetic+base%2Caps%2C345&sr=8-3
It states Hall-effect sensors but looks like a simple balljoint compared to the separate pivoting axis of a CH stick. Anyone know if the feel is good? Precision noticable? My Sidewinder is FUBAR because of backlash now so I don't prefer this design.
Thats the regular "Warthog" base and it does use hal sensors. The spring is pretty stiff but you can get an after market one HERE (https://warthog-extensions-by-sahaj.com/shop/warthog-green-springs/). The guys service is great. My first one got lost in shipping, I sent an email and another one was on the way same day. Some people have had an issue with the "ball" sticking in the housing. I have had mine for years and never had any trouble with it. I do clean it now and then so junk doesnt get in there and build up to cause the issue.
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Thats the regular "Warthog" base and it does use hal sensors...
Thanks for this Fugitive, very helpful. :salute
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I'll be changing out my CH stuff pretty soon. Might even jump to VR.
That's like a Caveman going from a club to a Remington 700 and we all know your older than a caveman :D :banana:
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That's like a Caveman going from a club to a Remington 700 and we all know your older than a caveman :D :banana:
So much difference?
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Arrrrgh :old: