General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: THRASH99 on November 20, 2023, 01:56:00 PM
Title: 20/30mm Cannon Dmg
Post by: THRASH99 on November 20, 2023, 01:56:00 PM
Randomly browsing around Youtube and come across gun cam footage that has been fully restored. Does the 20 or 30mm really seem to [like in game] absolutely obliterate anything in its path and 1 or 2 shot targets? From the footage it definitely hits the B17 hard, but not anywhere close to breaking an entire wing or ripping parts off like I keep saying an 88 would have done. In game I can literally short burst a few hispano (bazooka) rounds and it'll annihilate anything. 30mm seems to always be the 1 shot wonder but again after watching, did it really pack the ultimate punch...
"I dig through historical archives to find the best WW2 aircraft footage. I Enhance the footage to 4k, insert frames to 60fps, denoise and remove scratches, colorize, design sound, and add information about the aircraft and pilots where I can. Every 15 seconds of footage takes me roughly 18 hours of work. All original footage is licensed or in the public domain."
Title: Re: 20/30mm Cannon Dmg
Post by: nrshida on November 20, 2023, 03:33:53 PM
I see several rounds exploding merely in proximity. Minengeschoss were designed to detonate inside structures and do damage with pressure. There was no proximity fuse. RAF tests suggested two 30-mm would be sufficient to cause a wing to separate (under load).
Title: Re: 20/30mm Cannon Dmg
Post by: nopoop on November 20, 2023, 04:40:26 PM
Thanks for sharing !!
Title: Re: 20/30mm Cannon Dmg
Post by: Vulcan on November 20, 2023, 08:57:38 PM
I vaguely remember similar videos to this where the luftwaffe were testing against captured bombers. A crew would take the 17 up to level flight and bail, then fighers would have their way with it. Hence the level flight, and the gunners clearly not firing back.
Title: Re: 20/30mm Cannon Dmg
Post by: morfiend on November 21, 2023, 09:31:23 AM
I see several rounds exploding merely in proximity. Minengeschoss were designed to detonate inside structures and do damage with pressure. There was no proximity fuse. RAF tests suggested two 30-mm would be sufficient to cause a wing to separate (under load).
No prox fuse but they did use an inertial fuse,once the spin of the round slowed it would explode. Same with the 20mm, if you look closely at gun cam footage you can often see small flak like explosions. The Germans didn’t want unexploded round laying about to injure civilians
IIRC they used ball bearings that would use centrifugal forces to augment the contact fuse,once the spin slowed the bearings would be able to move closer to the center line and cause the round to explode.
<S>
Title: Re: 20/30mm Cannon Dmg
Post by: 1Cane on November 21, 2023, 09:58:17 AM
On you tube Chuck Yeager laughed at German 20mm said they did skin damage but did not penetrate like 50 cal. :airplane: :airplane:
Title: Re: 20/30mm Cannon Dmg
Post by: Gman on November 21, 2023, 11:42:28 AM
You can see the ball turret guns pointed straight down, which means the gunner has probably peaced-out, as that's the position it needs to be in for the hatch into the plane to open.
I've seen that footage in a ton of ww2 gun cam videos, so I'd wager it's probably authentic to answer an earlier question.
This YT channel has some good videos on L/W 30mm and 20mm guns effectiveness.
Title: Re: 20/30mm Cannon Dmg
Post by: nrshida on November 21, 2023, 02:39:44 PM
No prox fuse but they did use an inertial fuse,once the spin of the round slowed it would explode.
I haven't seen that type of fuse in a 30-mm. I'll have a look. What was the name of that fellow who had a specialist website on aircraft armament? Terry something? Think he was a forum member.
Does anyone know which type of Mk-108 Minengeschoss Aces High models? Maybe it's a middle point of both types?
Title: Re: 20/30mm Cannon Dmg
Post by: morfiend on November 22, 2023, 09:18:40 AM
I haven't seen that type of fuse in a 30-mm. I'll have a look. What was the name of that fellow who had a specialist website on aircraft armament? Terry something? Think he was a forum member.
Does anyone know which type of Mk-108 Minengeschoss Aces High models? Maybe it's a middle point of both types?
Do you mean Anthony Williams? His great sight comes back as page not found.
http://www.quarryhs.co.uk/miltech.htm. This was the reference site I used to go to,maybe you can find it still as they used to sell books and other things as well.
I think Buster posted some diagrams but I’m just not up to a deep dive,treatments have been kicking my butt lately.
<S>
Title: Re: 20/30mm Cannon Dmg
Post by: nrshida on November 22, 2023, 12:21:09 PM
Yes that's him, Tony. Great, haven't seen that in years :cheers: Morf
Title: Re: 20/30mm Cannon Dmg
Post by: Lusche on November 22, 2023, 12:35:29 PM
About all German explosive type cannon rounds cam in two variants - with and without 'Zerleger' (=literally 'disassembler'), which is the self-destruct mechanism Morfiend described above. So if you come across "3 cm M-Gesch. 108 Ausf.A m. Zerl.", it's a mine shell with self-destruction built in.
Title: Re: 20/30mm Cannon Dmg
Post by: nrshida on November 22, 2023, 12:50:40 PM
About all German explosive type cannon rounds cam in two variants - with and without 'Zerleger' (=literally 'disassembler'), which is the self-destruct mechanism Morfiend described above. So if you come across "3 cm M-Gesch. 108 Ausf.A m. Zerl.", it's a mine shell with self-destruction built in.
So much for German engineering Lusche. Can't be all that good if you can still find them around :rofl