Drones are po boys cruise missiles ... we will see more and more of this
It's the swarms that will be the real threat...not sure what we have that could take out a couple hundred attacking simultaneously..
Eagler
A swarm of anti-drone drones.
Title: Re: The future of warfare
Post by: Maverick on December 04, 2023, 09:59:16 AM
My guess is the response to swarm drones will be directed EMP pulses and or simple frequency jamming.
Title: Re: The future of warfare
Post by: AKIron on December 04, 2023, 10:40:43 AM
An emp would probably be effective today but drones could be autonomous and hardened against emp.
Title: Re: The future of warfare
Post by: Nefarious on December 04, 2023, 10:45:56 AM
The Feds knew this years ago when they adopted stricter rules and regs for private US drones.
Doesn't really matter though, that's not going to stop criminals from doing criminal things. Look for a major terror attack on US soil using drones like we see in Ukraine.
Title: Re: The future of warfare
Post by: CptTrips on December 04, 2023, 11:02:02 AM
For better or worse, I suspect it will greatly expand the frequency of military conflict.
The ability to engage with force where strategy or interests dictate, without the optics of US servicemen coming home in zinc caskets, would be seeing a liberating to many military planners.
Like the Battle of Fallujah. Before sending in 18 yo marines, you send in a couple of thousand ground terminators and swarms of semi-autonomous hunter-killer copter drones that can scoot around and go in doors and fly up stairwells until it finds an optical\infrared heat source than matches it's engagement profile, then zooms straight to the face area and detonates an fragmentation device. Or thousands and thousands of spider bots crawling around on the ground, going up walls and ceilings going after any targets then spring on them and detonating double ought shell at the target. All run by Mil-GPT10 networked AI.
Then the marines just come in later to look for intel and double tap anything still twitching.
Title: Re: The future of warfare
Post by: AKIron on December 04, 2023, 05:01:25 PM
https://twitter.com/i/status/1731502334444810685
Title: Re: The future of warfare
Post by: Nefarious on December 04, 2023, 06:03:53 PM
I'm afraid he's right. I watched a video the other day where a Russian was trapped around some type of cart and the drone was flying circles around this dude, the operator was messing with him. Eventually the dude couldn't escape it and it killed him.
All the while the video was playing, Flight of the Bumblebee was the audio.
What a time to be alive.
Title: Re: The future of warfare
Post by: Widewing on December 06, 2023, 02:15:49 PM
I'm afraid he's right. I watched a video the other day where a Russian was trapped around some type of cart and the drone was flying circles around this dude, the operator was messing with him. Eventually the dude couldn't escape it and it killed him.
All the while the video was playing, Flight of the Bumblebee was the audio.
What a time to be alive.
Shoulder fired aimed EMP weapons have been designed, patented and are in testing since 2019. Their primary purpose is to scramble the electronics of small lethal drones. Seems to work and is relatively inexpensive. It's a piezoelectric generator with focused antenna attached to an M4 rifle. It uses the energy of a blank cartridge.
AeroVironment's Switchblade 300 has a 20+ km range at 63 mph. 18 km with 100 mph sprint speed. Under development now are autonomous, AI operated drone killer drones. One can only wonder how fast the modern battlefield will disappear like Napoleonic tactics...
Title: Re: The future of warfare
Post by: icepac on December 06, 2023, 03:44:44 PM
Only explosively pumped EMP weapons are strong enough. Seen so many drones drop grenades on a Russian soldier firing his romulan disruptor right up to impact.
Title: Re: The future of warfare
Post by: Nefarious on December 06, 2023, 07:14:38 PM
Shoulder fired aimed EMP weapons have been designed, patented and are in testing since 2019. Their primary purpose is to scramble the electronics of small lethal drones. Seems to work and is relatively inexpensive. It's a piezoelectric generator with focused antenna attached to an M4 rifle. It uses the energy of a blank cartridge.
AeroVironment's Switchblade 300 has a 20+ km range at 63 mph. 18 km with 100 mph sprint speed. Under development now are autonomous, AI operated drone killer drones. One can only wonder how fast the modern battlefield will disappear like Napoleonic tactics...
You can see the jamming happening right now in most recent drone footage. I don't think Russia was ready for the drone menace early on. But jammers/jamming is pretty common now in Ukraine. If you see any drone footage where a drone is diving in on a target and they go static as they approach that's the jamming happening.
For now, they have limitations. The race is on for countermeasures for jamming and also jam proof signals.
Title: Re: The future of warfare
Post by: CptTrips on December 06, 2023, 09:13:58 PM
You can see the jamming happening right now in most recent drone footage. I don't think Russia was ready for the drone menace early on. But jammers/jamming is pretty common now in Ukraine. If you see any drone footage where a drone is diving in on a target and they go static as they approach that's the jamming happening.
For now, they have limitations. The race is on for countermeasures for jamming and also jam proof signals.
Are you sure that isn't just line of sight loss? If that is jamming they are waiting a little late. Usually on those they show a view from a second drone recording the approach and impact.
I remember at the beginning they had some raygun things, but you had to see the drone coming and aim at it. Not sure how that would work if you were being swarmed with 50.
And jamming will only be effective until they get autonomous AI drones, which might not be as far off as you would think.
This is all so weird to watch on youtube. It's the live proving grounds for the next conflict coming soon with russia and china. Feel like watching WWII weapons and tactics being proved out in the Spanish Civil War right before the big one.
Title: Re: The future of warfare
Post by: Nefarious on December 07, 2023, 06:07:09 AM
Are you sure that isn't just line of sight loss? If that is jamming they are waiting a little late. Usually on those they show a view from a second drone recording the approach and impact.
I remember at the beginning they had some raygun things, but you had to see the drone coming and aim at it. Not sure how that would work if you were being swarmed with 50.
And jamming will only be effective until they get autonomous AI drones, which might not be as far off as you would think.
This is all so weird to watch on youtube. It's the live proving grounds for the next conflict coming soon with russia and china. Feel like watching WWII weapons and tactics being proved out in the Spanish Civil War right before the big one.
I guess it could be a combination of both. I just saw a video a few days ago describing the jamming and the drone fell from the sky from loss of control and power.
Title: Re: The future of warfare
Post by: Eagler on December 07, 2023, 08:10:01 AM
Are they jamming our predator drones consistently?
Matter of time before they get around that obstacle
Military use is just one way drones can be used
I think of terrorism...the right attack there would have the same affect as sinking a carrier imo...might even be more effective
How well does a jet engine digest a decent size drone?
Eagler
Title: Re: The future of warfare
Post by: CptTrips on December 07, 2023, 10:02:56 AM
I guess it could be a combination of both. I just saw a video a few days ago describing the jamming and the drone fell from the sky from loss of control and power.
I definitely saw some of that early on. At least a Ukrainian version. But it seemed to have limited range, narrow effective angle. Point and "shoot" which implies you have to know the drone is coming and where it is. Probably not always the case. A lot of those vids the guys didn't seem to know it was there until a grenade landed next to them.
But it is going to be an innovation\counter-innovation battle. That doesn't sound like something the russians will be good at. Innovation is not really in their DNA. And it would take them time to steal the technology. Same with the chinese.
Title: Re: The future of warfare
Post by: Eagler on December 07, 2023, 10:35:55 AM
The fact that a drone can be the size of a dragonfly takes jamming out of the equation imo
The attack doesn't have to be large or spectacular just effective
The right mini drone flown at high speed into the right persons eye could flip the place on its ear
Eagler
Title: Re: The future of warfare
Post by: Nefarious on December 07, 2023, 11:15:31 AM
The fact that a drone can be the size of a dragonfly takes jamming out of the equation imo
Not necessarily. Think of the jamming like a wifi signal. The drone flies into the signal and it causes it's own signals to get scrambled the closer it gets to the source, which would be located at or near the target.
Everything else you mentioned is most certainly true. Strange times we live in.
Title: Re: The future of warfare
Post by: Eagler on December 07, 2023, 11:46:00 AM
True but thinking about more of singular not expected uses ..unless throwing out drone jamming signals become SOP for setting up for things like campaign speeches..
Seems like it would be harder to locate the attacker than say a rifle shot..
Eagler
Title: Re: The future of warfare
Post by: AKIron on December 07, 2023, 11:53:42 AM
It's possible drones will go into autonomous mode when jammed. Some likely do. An emp could disable them but it may not be difficult to shield them.
Title: Re: The future of warfare
Post by: Nefarious on December 07, 2023, 12:22:48 PM
True but thinking about more of singular not expected uses ..unless throwing out drone jamming signals become SOP for setting up for things like campaign speeches..
Seems like it would be harder to locate the attacker than say a rifle shot..
Eagler
I'm would put dollars to donuts that the technology is already in use for high ranking officials.
Title: Re: The future of warfare
Post by: Shuffler on December 07, 2023, 01:39:12 PM
Obviously one already planted cocaine in the Whitehouse as a test.
Title: Re: The future of warfare
Post by: AKIron on December 07, 2023, 03:38:46 PM
Not necessarily. Think of the jamming like a wifi signal. The drone flies into the signal and it causes it's own signals to get scrambled the closer it gets to the source, which would be located at or near the target.
Everything else you mentioned is most certainly true. Strange times we live in.
Anyone want a start a company with me making 2.4Ghz homing missiles (i.e they home in on 2.4Ghz wifi signals :noid )
OH: or build a fail safe mode into your drone that when it's signal gets jammed it aims for the nearest 2.4Ghz signal.
Title: Re: The future of warfare
Post by: AKIron on December 07, 2023, 09:39:23 PM
Successfully deploying AGM-88 (HARM) missiles in a sim is satisfying.
Title: Re: The future of warfare
Post by: Eagler on December 08, 2023, 07:43:48 AM
To dehumanizing warfare while keeping it profitable seems like a noble goal for our corrupt leaders..
Just think, they can have "ceasefires" like the Israeli mess and permit the "civilians" to evacuate and aid to be rendered to some level then restart the drone war up again..
It could become a new form of nightly entertainment..almost sports like as the news try to drum up patriotic support for the latest "victory"..
The black mirror episode of the pollinating bees gone bad is another possibility..
Eagler
Title: Re: The future of warfare
Post by: icepac on December 08, 2023, 10:59:24 AM
Those drones who lose signal 10 feet from it’s target will still explode because they often use a simple circuit completing “switch” on the front.
They don’t evaporate.
Title: Re: The future of warfare
Post by: Eagler on December 09, 2023, 07:37:26 AM
Those drones who lose signal 10 feet from it’s target will still explode because they often use a simple circuit completing “switch” on the front.
They don’t evaporate.
They can be fitted with loud speakers that scream Allahu Akbar...or something anti American in russian just before they explode so we know who to hate next..
Eagler
Title: Re: The future of warfare
Post by: AKIron on December 09, 2023, 07:58:11 AM
There's plenty of real hate to go around. Much of it justified. It is easier to manipulate the haters.
Title: Re: The future of warfare
Post by: HL117 on December 10, 2023, 01:36:41 PM
They can be fitted with loud speakers that scream Allahu Akbar...or something anti American in russian just before they explode so we know who to hate next..
Eagler
.
I used to find Spyro, tune to voice channel, and then bust some caps with the pistol while yelling. I’m pretty sure he was using the sim as a window to the world. It’s easy to go about your tasks and leave the volume up in case action comes to you.
Title: Re: The future of warfare
Post by: AKIron on December 21, 2023, 05:01:03 PM
No clue..just have a very hard time believing anything they say these days...too much crying wolf and outright lying the last 7 years...
Eagler
Title: Re: The future of warfare
Post by: FormerPlayer on December 27, 2023, 05:49:46 PM
I see they designed a robot that is humanoid in form and can run at 40 mph, at present it returns shopping carts, but imagine that with a machine gun running after you, it's terrifying. :t
Title: Re: The future of warfare
Post by: GasTeddy on December 28, 2023, 02:09:46 AM
I see they designed a robot that is humanoid in form and can run at 40 mph, at present it returns shopping carts, but imagine that with a machine gun running after you, it's terrifying. :t
Title: Re: The future of warfare
Post by: DmonSlyr on December 28, 2023, 09:40:20 AM
We are just too nice... need to send all of these palistine protestors to palistine so they can live there and stop blocking traffic for Americans. Someone is funding this. Total idiots we don't need here.
Secondly. I'd tell China that if they even think about attacking Taiwan, I'd create a law making it illegal to open a business in a China, and give all American business 3 months to leave the country. They would change their tune real quick. Infact, that should already be a policy.
If I controlled the military in the middle east, you can bet I'd be casing every square inch of that place and bombing every single houthie, Hamas, Iran site. Every single one. You kill and bomb Americans, it's game over. They shouldnt even be even close to bombing American sites.
Title: Re: The future of warfare
Post by: Eagler on December 28, 2023, 10:23:12 AM
When the sleeper cells that have been organizing since 2021 decide/instructed to awaken, we will see why they have allowed their setups since...everything up to that point is just part of the plan imo
Does anyone think allowing millions of who knows what across our borders would produce anything else but such a scenario?
Eagler
Title: Re: The future of warfare
Post by: hazmatt on December 28, 2023, 03:08:02 PM
We are just too nice... need to send all of these palistine protestors to palistine so they can live there and stop blocking traffic for Americans. Someone is funding this. Total idiots we don't need here.
I want to see the reception the "gays for Palestine" get when they show up. That might even be worth a pay per view.
Title: Re: The future of warfare
Post by: hazmatt on December 28, 2023, 03:13:14 PM
When the sleeper cells that have been organizing since 2021 decide/instructed to awaken, we will see why they have allowed their setups since...everything up to that point is just part of the plan imo
Does anyone think allowing millions of who knows what across our borders would produce anything else but such a scenario?
Eagler
Figure the odds that there's no terrorists in the millions of criminals who have broken the law and crossed the border illegally. When some of the bad ones do criminal acts that involve firearms the government will probably try to use it as a reason to confiscate legally owned firearms from law abiding people.
I suspect that's when the real troubles will begin.
Title: Re: The future of warfare
Post by: GasTeddy on December 28, 2023, 03:41:20 PM
Figure the odds that there's no terrorists in the millions of criminals who have broken the law and crossed the border illegally. When some of the bad ones do criminal acts that involve firearms the government will probably try to use it as a reason to confiscate legally owned firearms from law abiding people.
I suspect that's when the real troubles will begin.
It's not once or twice, and not just in one country, where crimes committed with illegal firearms have been used as an excuse to tighten gun laws. When people in business and working with them (me included) tried to ask the logic in these decisions, we were either told to shut up or faced total wall of silence and ignorance.