Why is the government giving Baltimore 60 million in aid and nothing from the container ship company??
Because they need a bridge now, not 5 years from now.
Title: Re: The Baltimore Bridge
Post by: Meatwad on March 30, 2024, 05:25:03 PM
Hopefully they can skip all the BS and start right away and go to town on construction, and not "well we need to do an environmental study for 6 months on what happens when we build a new bridge" and then all the hippies trying to stop construction because "you will make the fishes upset"
Title: Re: The Baltimore Bridge
Post by: AKIron on March 30, 2024, 05:28:24 PM
Years no matter who pays. If the need for transit is great a couple of landings for ferries could be arranged in little time.
Title: Re: The Baltimore Bridge
Post by: The Fugitive on March 30, 2024, 05:29:44 PM
60 Million will only get the channel clear and the port opened.
Title: Re: The Baltimore Bridge
Post by: hazmatt on March 30, 2024, 06:19:37 PM
What's stupid is not having barriers around the columns like the skyway bridge in Tampa for example.
Remember any of your high school physics? The ship weighs 95,000 tons empty, then add 4700 shipping containers... I have no idea what they weigh. Now move all that at 8 knots. Barriers? I just did some basic math and came up with 94,624.971 lbs of force. What you wanna build your barriers out of?
Title: Re: The Baltimore Bridge
Post by: AKIron on March 31, 2024, 08:34:31 PM
The bridge stopped the boat so whatever that pillar was made of.
Title: Re: The Baltimore Bridge
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on March 31, 2024, 08:37:43 PM
Remember any of your high school physics? The ship weighs 95,000 tons empty, then add 4700 shipping containers... I have no idea what they weigh. Now move all that at 8 knots. Barriers? I just did some basic math and came up with 94,624.971 lbs of force. What you wanna build your barriers out of?
They have what are called "fenders", for that specific purpose. They also have underwater (about 10') barriers that extend up to 100' from the bridge supports, made of rocks/boulders, weighing tons, made specifically to stop massive ships.
They do not stop ships instantly. They slow them rapidly, redirect them, and redirect and absorb the force.
Title: Re: The Baltimore Bridge
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on March 31, 2024, 08:39:15 PM
They have what are called "fenders", for that specific purpose. They also have underwater (about 10') barriers that extend up to 100' from the bridge supports, made of rocks/boulders, weighing tons, made specifically to stop massive ships.
They do not stop ships instantly. They slow them rapidly, redirect them, and redirect and absorb the force.
I am familiar with these yet to be tested designs. We'll see if they perform should tragedy strike again.
Title: Re: The Baltimore Bridge
Post by: GasTeddy on April 01, 2024, 02:48:13 AM
They have what are called "fenders", for that specific purpose. They also have underwater (about 10') barriers that extend up to 100' from the bridge supports, made of rocks/boulders, weighing tons, made specifically to stop massive ships.
They do not stop ships instantly. They slow them rapidly, redirect them, and redirect and absorb the force.
I was surprised to see there were none in Baltimore. Here they are obligatory.
Title: Re: The Baltimore Bridge
Post by: Eagler on April 01, 2024, 08:08:45 AM
Remember any of your high school physics? The ship weighs 95,000 tons empty, then add 4700 shipping containers... I have no idea what they weigh. Now move all that at 8 knots. Barriers? I just did some basic math and came up with 94,624.971 lbs of force. What you wanna build your barriers out of?
Probably concrete like the ones in Tampa....
Here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Skyway_Bridge_old_and_new.jpg
See those weird little round things around the columns? They're designed to stop ships like the ones that caused the disaster in 1980. I mean after the bridge DID stop the ship with the small pilings for the towers, im sure the bridge in Tampa would survive a similar collision.
Title: Re: The Baltimore Bridge
Post by: SIM on April 01, 2024, 07:28:29 PM
This is a good channel for all things shipping. Lots of information is available including what I think is a very well done analysis of the collision itself.
Title: Re: The Baltimore Bridge
Post by: Busher on April 01, 2024, 09:52:32 PM
Here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Skyway_Bridge_old_and_new.jpg
See those weird little round things around the columns? They're designed to stop ships like the ones that caused the disaster in 1980. I mean after the bridge DID stop the ship with the small pilings for the towers, im sure the bridge in Tampa would survive a similar collision.
As I said in a previous post, I am familiar with the design. Given that the Dali is not a large container ship and the incredible amount of kinetic energy that needs to be absorbed in incidents like this, I would rather hope that things like this never happen again instead of making statements like "im sure the bridge in Tampa would survive a similar collision". Engineers are not always right.
Title: Re: The Baltimore Bridge
Post by: TryHard on April 01, 2024, 11:26:02 PM
As I said in a previous post, I am familiar with the design. Given that the Dali is not a large container ship and the incredible amount of kinetic energy that needs to be absorbed in incidents like this, I would rather hope that things like this never happen again instead of making statements like "im sure the bridge in Tampa would survive a similar collision". Engineers are not always right.
Im just answering your question sir :salute
For the record im not in anyway hoping for a ship to crash into the tampa bay skyway bridge, I think we all hope that this never happens again. BUT if accident were to happen that bridge would stand a hell of a lot better chance than the bridge in Baltimore...
From your logic we shouldn't build ships to have more life boats than the Titanic or have true watertight bulkheads either, because if we hope hard enough and wish upon a falling star an iceberg will never find its way in the path of an oceanliner again. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: The Baltimore Bridge
Post by: sparky127 on April 02, 2024, 05:22:40 AM
Tldnr
Building a bridge is a neat idea, but first they've got to clear the old one out of the way.
Title: Re: The Baltimore Bridge
Post by: Eagler on April 02, 2024, 08:10:15 AM
I believe the bumpers around the skyway are designed to deflect not stop a ship
Every bridge should have them..heck the power lines next to the Baltimore bridge has them...
Eagler
Title: Re: The Baltimore Bridge
Post by: Shuffler on April 02, 2024, 09:55:05 AM
I believe the bumpers around the skyway are designed to deflect not stop a ship
Every bridge should have them..heck the power lines next to the Baltimore bridge has them...
Eagler
Any protection is better than none. Those dolphins may have helped here. This was bound to happen.... no tugs or any safety going through the choke point.
Title: Re: The Baltimore Bridge
Post by: Eagler on April 02, 2024, 04:23:38 PM
The FBI was aboard the ship today. There are reports that it left the dock with known electrical failures.
It’s routine for ships entering leaving port to have 2 generators running in parallel so if one fails the other will assume the load without interruption. If the electrical system was in order a complete failure like what we saw should not have happened. I bet USCG port inspectors might feel some heat too.
Title: Re: The Baltimore Bridge
Post by: Busher on April 16, 2024, 05:08:18 PM
It’s routine for ships entering leaving port to have 2 generators running in parallel so if one fails the other will assume the load without interruption. If the electrical system was in order a complete failure like what we saw should not have happened. I bet USCG port inspectors might feel some heat too.
Did the boat lose electrical power only? Maybe I just assumed it lost propulsion.
Title: Re: The Baltimore Bridge
Post by: Professor_Fate on April 16, 2024, 08:10:53 PM
Did the boat lose electrical power only? Maybe I just assumed it lost propulsion.
Shortly after the lights went out there was billowing black smoke coming from the stack and I think it was the engine backing down hard. Because shortly after that, the bow began to swing to starboard PDQ most likely due to the propeller’s side force. that’s my 0.2 cents.
Title: Re: The Baltimore Bridge
Post by: RichardDarkwood on April 16, 2024, 08:17:15 PM
Shortly after the lights went out there was billowing black smoke coming from the stack and I think it was the engine backing down hard. Because shortly after that, the bow began to swing to starboard PDQ most likely due to the propeller’s side force. that’s my 0.2 cents.
The smoke was from the generator
Title: Re: The Baltimore Bridge
Post by: Professor_Fate on April 16, 2024, 08:57:31 PM
Maybe, only reason I thought it was the engine backing is because of the bow swinging to starboard shortly afterwards possibly induced by the side force of the propeller. That’s just my .2 cents based on one video I saw on the news.
The cause of allision was IMO due to a power failure, nothing else. When a ship that size loses power there isn’t much that can be done other than to hold on tight..
Title: Re: The Baltimore Bridge
Post by: RichardDarkwood on April 16, 2024, 09:28:23 PM
yeah the lights go out, a few moments later the generator kicked on. then it went off and came back on again
Title: Re: The Baltimore Bridge
Post by: Eagler on April 17, 2024, 07:29:16 AM
Maybe, only reason I thought it was the engine backing is because of the bow swinging to starboard shortly afterwards possibly induced by the side force of the propeller. That’s just my .2 cents based on one video I saw on the news.
The cause of allision was IMO due to a power failure, nothing else. When a ship that size loses power there isn’t much that can be done other than to hold on tight..
Thought the swing was from them dropping anchor in an attempt to stop...
Eagler
Title: Re: The Baltimore Bridge
Post by: The Fugitive on April 17, 2024, 07:33:41 AM
I read a couple accounts that pointed out that there is another channel that is off to the starboard rear at the time of the lost power. Some are saying the current from that channel kicked the back end of the ship pushing it to port and that was how it got pointed at the bridge supports.
Title: Re: The Baltimore Bridge
Post by: Professor_Fate on April 17, 2024, 09:00:33 AM
Thought the swing was from them dropping anchor in an attempt to stop...
Eagler
I read the port anchor was let go which I think would have had the opposite effect. Anyway, just to let everyone know, I am NOT an informed source, I pretty much based anything I’ve said on that one video. We’ll know the truth soon enough.
Title: Re: The Baltimore Bridge
Post by: Shuffler on April 17, 2024, 12:13:31 PM
It was the port anchor and it was dropped to try to slow ans counter the movement to starboard. The quick turn to starboard looked more like propwalk (full reverse) as a ship that size does not maneuver like that normally.
Title: Re: The Baltimore Bridge
Post by: Professor_Fate on April 17, 2024, 01:17:30 PM
It was the port anchor and it was dropped to try to slow ans counter the movement to starboard. The quick turn to starboard looked more like propwalk (full reverse) as a ship that size does not maneuver like that normally.
Been on the bridge most of my adult life and that’s what it looked to me too. Does the captain risk going under the bridge as intended hoping he doesn’t hit it or do everything possible to take all way off using engines and anchors. With a ship that size all it takes is a small tap and it’s going break something. Kinetic energy is biatch.