General Forums => Films and Screenshots => Topic started by: Bopgun on April 24, 2024, 03:01:25 PM
Title: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Bopgun on April 24, 2024, 03:01:25 PM
This is not meant to be a flamebait thread, I'm genuinely curious as to what the community thinks. Are any of these shoots or maneuvers really that underhanded? Have I unwittingly wronged a dear friend of mine? Or perhaps someone is projecting their damaged ego onto others after a set of light hearted Match play fights?
Regardless <S> Shane, I still say you're a good competitor and look forward to all our futures fights to come.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Skyyr on April 24, 2024, 03:10:54 PM
lol he used the "I can see it's just for ego" line with you. He used the same with me when he lost 2-0 and quit.
None of the shots were cheap, you simply kept your energy state; Shane didn't and suffered for it. Nothing even remotely questionable about those shots.
See here for his same lines and excuses:
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Shane on April 24, 2024, 03:31:57 PM
This is not meant to be a flamebait thread, I'm genuinely curious as to what the community thinks. Are any of these shoots or maneuvers really that underhanded? Have I unwittingly wronged a dear friend of mine? Or perhaps someone is projecting their damaged ego onto others after a set of light hearted Match play fights?
Regardless <S> Shane, I still say you're a good competitor and look forward to all our futures fights to come.
tl;dnr - fun is rear aspect kills, (out)flying for position, ego is whatever shot gets the win after the merge.
Sigh... bring it here. (The last was la7 vs p47n, btw) Let me just say I could be pressing a lot harder in the DA than you've seen, and I don't because I'm there for the fun of twisting planes around on the edges of their envelopes - and not taking the front aspect shots that I do pass on, because fun. We did that a few days ago, remember? What was different today vs then? Or our past times in DA?
Let me challenge you to read this entire thread which covers a comparable incident years and years ago (and is exactly why I walked out on having "fun" with skyyr in the DA not too long ago). Read all of it and you'll see the fun vs ego aspects of the DA come into play. You don't even really need the films to see how it played out.
Once you started "pulling out the stops" and taking shots that are meh from the fun perspective, but get you the win, especially that 51b vs ta152, I decided, ok, I'll play for a win and you got the la7 vs p47n as a lesson on just how I can also play the "ego" card for the win. And I won't be slow doing it, well unless next time you're in an i16 vs my 51b. :D
I could easily have sat on your i16 head for a win, but chose the fun route twisting and lost. The jug vs pony was meh in the shots being taken. In many of our fights can you see me not shooting at times when you cross under me as I try and roll onto your 6 for the shots I want to take. I could be flying for those crossing shots, but I'm not. Except when I am... la7 vs 47n.
Yes, I can be a fun fight because I tend to mirror my opponents skill levels, but I can also let my ego step up... which is more, well... fun?
You could have asked me directly to explain this.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Shane on April 24, 2024, 03:33:32 PM
lol he used the "I can see it's just for ego" line with you. He used the same with me when he lost 2-0 and quit. None of the shots were cheap, you simply kept your energy state; Shane didn't and suffered for it. Nothing even remotely questionable about those shots. See here for his same lines and excuses:
Read the entire thread, I dare you. Did this with one of your FPH's back in the day, Grizz. Stepsis got the Grizz treatment, dead in 3 turns and comes to forums looking for validation from those uninvolved.
tl;dnr - fun is rear aspect kills, (out)flying for position, ego is whatever shot gets the win after the merge.
Sigh... bring it here. (The last was la7 vs p47n, btw) Let me just say I could be pressing a lot harder in the DA than you've seen, and I don't because I'm there for the fun of twisting planes around on the edges of their envelopes - and not taking the front aspect shots that I do pass on, because fun. We did that a few days ago, remember? What was different today vs then? Or our past times in DA?
Let me challenge you to read this entire thread which covers a comparable incident years and years ago (and is exactly why I walked out on having "fun" with skyyr in the DA not too long ago). Read all of it and you'll see the fun vs ego aspects of the DA come into play. You don't even really need the films to see how it played out.
Once you started "pulling out the stops" and taking shots that are meh from the fun perspective, but get you the win, especially that 51b vs ta152, I decided, ok, I'll play for a win and you got the la7 vs p47n as a lesson on just how I can also play the "ego" card for the win. And I won't be slow doing it, well unless next time you're in an i16 vs my 51b. :D
I could easily have sat on your i16 head for a win, but chose the fun route twisting and lost. The jug vs pony was meh in the shots being taken. In many of our fights can you see me not shooting at times when you cross under me as I try and roll onto your 6 for the shots I want to take. I could be flying for those crossing shots, but I'm not. Except when I am... la7 vs 47n.
Yes, I can be a fun fight because I tend to mirror my opponents skill levels, but I can also let my ego step up... which is more, well... fun?
You could have asked me directly to explain this.
I'm not reading some thread for 10+ years ago dude. TL;DNR
You walked out of friendly Match play fights after switching to your best plane and taking a face shot to win a single fight lol(Please post so we can compare the fights). Sounds to me like you're the one with the ego. I was not fighting differently than any of our other duels with the exception of it being asymmetrical plane choices. You were being abrasive even before we finished our first fight in the I16-P51B.
Watching Skyyrs video, It seems to me he was being very respectful and accommodating to what you wanted out of the Matchplay session. I think you just get frustrated and don't know how to vent it out properly, like many others in this game.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Skyyr on April 24, 2024, 04:17:55 PM
tl;dnr - fun is rear aspect kills, (out)flying for position, ego is whatever shot gets the win after the merge.
Sigh... bring it here. (The last was la7 vs p47n, btw) Let me just say I could be pressing a lot harder in the DA than you've seen, and I don't because I'm there for the fun of twisting planes around on the edges of their envelopes - and not taking the front aspect shots that I do pass on, because fun. We did that a few days ago, remember? What was different today vs then? Or our past times in DA?
Let me challenge you to read this entire thread which covers a comparable incident years and years ago (and is exactly why I walked out on having "fun" with skyyr in the DA not too long ago). Read all of it and you'll see the fun vs ego aspects of the DA come into play. You don't even really need the films to see how it played out.
Once you started "pulling out the stops" and taking shots that are meh from the fun perspective, but get you the win, especially that 51b vs ta152, I decided, ok, I'll play for a win and you got the la7 vs p47n as a lesson on just how I can also play the "ego" card for the win. And I won't be slow doing it, well unless next time you're in an i16 vs my 51b. :D
I could easily have sat on your i16 head for a win, but chose the fun route twisting and lost. The jug vs pony was meh in the shots being taken. In many of our fights can you see me not shooting at times when you cross under me as I try and roll onto your 6 for the shots I want to take. I could be flying for those crossing shots, but I'm not. Except when I am... la7 vs 47n.
Yes, I can be a fun fight because I tend to mirror my opponents skill levels, but I can also let my ego step up... which is more, well... fun?
You could have asked me directly to explain this.
So what you're really saying is: 10 years ago you were whining and struggling against Grizz too, making excuses when you died. No one cares dude.
And Grizz was never a FPH of mine, you numbnuts. I smacked him around constantly during the brief time we overlapped. The only players I've ever mentioned as being noteworthy or being able to hang 1:1 with me coincidentally happen to be the same players who beat the crap out of you.
But like I said, no one cares. Go lose another duel and claim it's because "you meant to."
I'm not reading some thread for 10+ years ago dude. TL;DNR
You walked out of friendly Match play fights after switching to your best plane and taking a face shot to win a single fight lol(Please post so we can compare the fights). Sounds to me like you're the one with the ego. I was not fighting differently than any of our other duels with the exception of it being asymmetrical plane choices. You were being abrasive even before we finished our first fight in the I16-P51B.
Watching Skyyrs video, It seems to me he was being very respectful and accommodating to what you wanted out of the Matchplay session. I think you just get frustrated and don't know how to vent it out properly, like many others in this game.
Let me correct you on several aspects.
If you had only read the tl;dnr ego vs fun that should suffice to make my point. Did you even read that?
You were gladly taking front quarter shots (and stalling HO shots) that in the past we would forego on - something changed on your end. I'm not there to help you work on your front quarter or HO stall shots.
The i16 all I said was you were lucky, and indeed you were, or are you thinking, nah?
The first jug vs 51 were the front quarter shots and ur seeming refusal to be willing to roll out of the way, expecting me to yield (and in DA I generally do because collisions suck, except when I also shoot while rolling out of the way.)
The ta152 was, just, well.. lol, really. That gave clarity to where you were at mentally in DA at that moment.
You're complaining about a mismatch of planes when I'm complaining about a mismatch of motivations. I'm not there for that and gave you the la7 vs 47n as an example of what you're trying to justify here - any shot after the initial merge is valid because win. I had guns on you, you didn't on me; plane choice was irrelevant, I just decided to make it a quick lesson.
I walk out of DA when it becomes about the "win." No big. Take whatever front quarter shots you feel you need to work on... with others. It's certainly anything goes in the MA which has its own fun vs ego dynamics.
That's exactly what Skyyr was about - he asked if anyone wanted to go to the DA not long after he had officially returned. I said sure because I had heard of him and figured if he were back recently, maybe some rust I could help him with - just an expectation of fun wringing planes around. I got his lame low-e merge and front quarter ego shots right away. Recognized. Ego, not fun. Left. And Skyyr keeps bragging on this, lofl. You seem to think his cordiality was in search of fun when it was a guise for his ego. This is entirely what Skyyr is about - *his* ego. He even brags on kills and claims as "wins" those he goes down himself after he weebly ho/rams me. At least twice, lol.
And this is the guy you're seeking validation from? I can see his influence on your "pulling out all the stops" with the ta152, toggling engine (twice wasn't it?) and taking anything for win shots.
Few days ago vs today - what changed? Your mindset, so it changed mine. You even saw TheSig say he tries for rear aspect shots, and generally that's the case between us, or any other fun fights that you know are good but Skyyr will disparage because ego: Bunnies, Shida, Eagler and several others.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Skyyr on April 24, 2024, 04:33:19 PM
I can see his influence on your "pulling out all the stops" with the ta152, toggling engine (twice wasn't it?) and taking anything for win shots.
hitech: Toggling the engine doesn't give an advantage the community: Toggling the engine doesn't give an advantage Shane: OMGUTOGGLEDENGINEWTF!!!!!lol.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Shane on April 24, 2024, 04:41:39 PM
So what you're really saying is: 10 years ago you were whining and struggling against Grizz too, making excuses when you died. No one cares dude.
LOFL weeb, you didn't read the thread. I popped Grizz so hard when I decided to play his way (all shots valid after the merge) that he came whining to the forums. You can even see Grizz admitting I'm holding shots on him. He was a boi of your FPHs. He had real good aim. But fun vs ego. That's what you're still failing to grasp.
See, the thing is Grizz asked me to go to DA to help him with the 38... So those kills I gave and mentioned repeatedly was me going easy. Then I stopped and popped him when he got ego-y using that logic of anything after the merge is valid.
Sound familiar? Stepsis got a taste because I respected them enough to make an effort; you're just upset I recognized your ego quickly and opted out of your little fantasy.
LOFL, your ego claims as wins when it dies, too, is all anyone needs to understand about you. And why you're so easy to manipulate and so desperate in seeking external validation(s)... from me, apparently, :headscratch:
Re the engine toggling vs cutting throttle, all it does is delay starting engine up and reduce some minimal torque compared to chopped throttle. I find it funny and a desperation move. HT is right, it doesn't give any advantage, just says "look how desperate I am." Stepsis could have achieved those shots with a chopped throttle as well.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Skyyr on April 24, 2024, 04:43:58 PM
Translation: "I going to claim I could have won, but I didn't want to and CHOSE to lose; but I'm also going to come here and write massive posts defending myself, even though I didn't care about winning. Oh yeah I also have brain damage."
Funny how you use the exact same story every time you, well, lose lol.
No one cares dude.
29-6
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Shane on April 24, 2024, 04:51:10 PM
Translation: "I could win but I didn't want to and CHOSE to lose, but I'm going to come here and write massive posts defending myself, even though I didn't care about winning. Oh yeah I also have brain damage." No one cares dude. 29-6
This is what a clueless ego boi looks like as they claim a "win." :rofl
I must be bored, I've not played AH for some years. But somehow I feel like getting involved. Because I want to ask who the hell would consider the fights in this video a 'duel'?
Pansy E fighting, not even diving nose to nose at merge, working for the first questionable killshot possible. I would bet if we saw the AHF files you had a speed advantage the entire fight from way before your so-called 'merge'.
You just don't seem to understand. The historic greats of Aces High were respected because they would routinely win from disadvantage. Absolutely no one cares if you can win with advantage on the first gun solution presented. Might as well be vulching in the MA.
You think Shane doesn't know how to force those E advantages you refuse to let go of? He doesn't play your game in that video because he has self respect and is looking for some fun flying. But you'll never get it. You're not the first to behave like this and I'm sure you wont be the last.
I just wish you would get a little sportsmanship and some self respect and drop the ego. Because that accusation is dead on. It's all ego based for you. Worse, you seem to actively want to annoy people. With your skills and the obvious excess of time you have to waste you could put a little effort in and really be an ambassador for this game. Yet you choose to constantly try to annoy people.
Have you ever questioned yourself about why that is?
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Skyyr on April 24, 2024, 06:16:28 PM
I just wish you would get a little sportsmanship and some self respect and drop the ego.
lol
Oh really? I should drop the ego? Let's take a trip down memory lane: you're the one who challenged me, called me out in game, then made a forum post demanding I duel you and claimed I was scared, then actually dueled me, claiming you'd win, only to fall flat on your face. You even tried to lie and claim you were "training" me after it became public you lost to me, despite the fact I told you I wanted nothing to do with you. Then you tried to lie about the loss until I posted the video.
You did duel Kruel and you mildly beat him, so you expected me to lose the same. Your ego emboldened you and you started spamming the forums, claiming I was afraid of you. And I'm the one with the ego? lmao.
Keep in mind I hadn't even been playing a year at that point lol. I neither knew who you were nor gave a toejam about flying against you. You demanded it, repeatedly telling me you were going to put me in my place lol. Welp, 10+ years of flying and you couldn't beat someone who'd been flying for 11 months lol. Let me be perfectly clear: my flying at this point was terrible and I still beat you. I hadn't even become fully familiar with the flight model or half the planes we flew when you lost. Let that sink in.
I'm not the one with the ego, you brought that on yourself.
Oh, and yes - I saw ALL of the "private" forum posts your squad members made, postulating whether or not I was cheating on the merges, trying to figure out how I held so much speed. You yourself even accused me of cheating in our duels, lmao, because you couldn't figure out how I was faster than you on the merge. Nah, you're the ego who got beat so unexpectedly that you accused the other guy of cheating. You then tried to lie and claim you hadn't flown before the duel, but luckily Kruel and I pulled your tour stats and showed you'd been flying for 2 months prior lmao.
Lecture someone who cares. Your opinion on what constitutes skill means nothing to me, for obvious reasons. As you've basically implied, you've not played in years and are irrelevant at this point, clinging to the hope someone respects your past accomplishments (I'm seeing a trend here). We dueled and trust me, there wasn't much to respect after your attempt to publicly beat me; that backfired and backfired spectacularly.
Note the upload date, this has been available for years.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Bopgun on April 24, 2024, 09:49:07 PM
I still don't see what you were complaining about. I told you I switched off the 152's engine to keep from entering the unrecoverable stall, Only difference I can see from our other fights(Sample). I think you're just being a baby. However I may be wrong which is why I don't mind others weighing in.
Maybe I play too rough with you, Ill be gentle next time kiddo.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Shane on April 24, 2024, 10:44:17 PM
Toggling the engine just basically eliminates torque right?
yes. and on film entire flight is in combat trim - so perfectly trimmed no matter what. Combat trim was supposed to limit AoA you can get, but i guess you could work around that using manual "up" trim on elevator.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Eagler on April 25, 2024, 08:08:04 AM
Oh really? I should drop the ego? Let's take a trip down memory lane: you're the one who challenged me, called me out in game, then made a forum post demanding I duel you and claimed I was scared, then actually dueled me, claiming you'd win, only to fall flat on your face. You even tried to lie and claim you were "training" me after it became public you lost to me, despite the fact I told you I wanted nothing to do with you. Then you tried to lie about the loss until I posted the video.
You did duel Kruel and you mildly beat him, so you expected me to lose the same. Your ego emboldened you and you started spamming the forums, claiming I was afraid of you. And I'm the one with the ego? lmao.
Keep in mind I hadn't even been playing a year at that point lol. I neither knew who you were nor gave a toejam about flying against you. You demanded it, repeatedly telling me you were going to put me in my place lol. Welp, 10+ years of flying and you couldn't beat someone who'd been flying for 11 months lol. Let me be perfectly clear: my flying at this point was terrible and I still beat you. I hadn't even become fully familiar with the flight model or half the planes we flew when you lost. Let that sink in.
I'm not the one with the ego, you brought that on yourself.
Oh, and yes - I saw ALL of the "private" forum posts your squad members made, postulating whether or not I was cheating on the merges, trying to figure out how I held so much speed. You yourself even accused me of cheating in our duels, lmao, because you couldn't figure out how I was faster than you on the merge. Nah, you're the ego who got beat so unexpectedly that you accused the other guy of cheating. You then tried to lie and claim you hadn't flown before the duel, but luckily Kruel and I pulled your tour stats and showed you'd been flying for 2 months prior lmao.
Lecture someone who cares. Your opinion on what constitutes skill means nothing to me, for obvious reasons. As you've basically implied, you've not played in years and are irrelevant at this point, clinging to the hope someone respects your past accomplishments (I'm seeing a trend here). We dueled and trust me, there wasn't much to respect after your attempt to publicly beat me; that backfired and backfired spectacularly.
Note the upload date, this has been available for years.
You still don't get it. If anyone respected me in this game it had nothing to do with cartoon flying skills... it was for who I am as a person.
Massive amount of dishonesty from you in your post, water off a duck's back for me.
If nothing else needs proving, you say at the time of our fights in this video (2014) you had only been flying 11 months. Yet you registered on the forums here in 2006. So what, you were just lurking the forums for eight years before plugging a joystick in?
Anyway, thank you for posting that video. I watched the first 10 minutes. It clearly shows me resoundingly spanking you 3 out of 3 times in La7s despite your every effort to win through an energy advantage. :rock
warms my heart.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Skyyr on April 25, 2024, 08:40:58 AM
Massive amount of dishonesty from you in your post, water off a duck's back for me.
Not a single thing I've stated is even remotely dishonest. I have saved every post, screenshot, and lame-ass excuse you made after begging and demanding me to fight you and I'll gladly repost them if you'd like to re-live the cringe-worthy embarrassment you made of yourself. Now get off my nuts, you asked for this. I never cared to deal with you nor have I ever asked to interact with you.
P.S. Pull my stats, genius. I registered here in 2006 when a bunch of FA players came here to check out the game. I never played until 2013, however, because I saw videos and didn't like the ranking system, so I left after like 2 days of asking questions (check my post history). I stopped playing sims entirely in 2008. In 2013, I came back to sims and it was the only MMO-type combat sim, so I checked out AH again. So yeah, I genuinely and quite literally had only played 11 months. Sorry, you really were that bad.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: mechanic on April 25, 2024, 08:45:48 AM
Not a single thing was dishonest. I have every [Every? From a decade ago? About a cartoon flying game? That sounds healthy] post, screenshot, and lame-ass excuse you made after begging and demanding me to fight you. Now get off my nuts, you asked for this.
You mean I asked you to post an ancient video that shows solid ACMs spanking a timid E fighter 3 times in a row?
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Skyyr on April 25, 2024, 08:48:36 AM
My guy, what are you smoking? Did you seriously forget your attempts to publicly humiliate Skyyr? Did you genuinely forget how you stalked him on forum threads and insisted he was a chicken if he didn't duel you? I doubt it.
You challenged me and we had some decent fights. You won (it's ok, I never claimed to be great) and then you started hounding Skyyr to fight you.
You didn't hear any excuses from me, so why are you so embarassed when the tables were turned? And he most certainly had played less than a year. We came here together in 2013. Dont make me go and pull up all of the old posts and your lame excuses after you lost either. On second thought, they're pretty comical and I'm bored at work, so maybe I'll do just that.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Bopgun on April 25, 2024, 09:11:37 AM
Maybe next time I won't be so gentle as I have been with you, and you'll get this again. Might not even be in la7; just a mindset switch.
Ya know, that’s the Shane I would love to fight. Whenever you’re up for a dueling bracket style best of 5, looser wears the other’s dirty underwear over their face for a day?
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: mechanic on April 25, 2024, 09:14:55 AM
So Skyr's forum registration date of 2006 is 8 years before he ever played the game. Ok. I suppose that explains the first three fights in that video where, despite E disadvantage, the better understanding of cartoon dweebery prevailed. Poor guy was only a noob.
Try to understand the lesson. No one ever respected me for cartoon flying. If anyone did respect me, it was for who I am as a person.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Skyyr on April 25, 2024, 09:16:49 AM
So Skyr's forum registration date of 2006 is 8 years before he ever played the game. Ok. I suppose that explains the first three fights in that video where, despite E disadvantage, the better understanding of cartoon dweebery prevailed. Poor guy was only a noob.
Try to understand the lesson. No one ever respected me for cartoon flying. If anyone did respect me, it was for who I am as a person.
Sorry you lost brah. I'll pay your sub if you want a rematch. Actually the DA's free so you don't even need a sub.
Lemme know ;)
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: mechanic on April 25, 2024, 09:24:25 AM
Sorry you lost brah. I'll pay your sub if you want a rematch. Actually the DA's free so you don't even need a sub.
Lemme know ;)
No way. I'm still not over the pain my fragile ego feels after the last time you proved who was the better man. Sometimes I look back through the hard drives I keep in a locked safe containing EVERY post, screen shot, and lame arse excuse I made just to punish myself further in the hopes that one day I will rise, phoenixesque, from the ashes of the lowest point I've known in this life.
Do you want to tackle the question of your forum account registered in 2006 contradicting your claim to not having flown in aces high until 2014?
I'm sure there is a perfectly believable explanation.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: DmonSlyr on April 25, 2024, 09:26:26 AM
Not a single thing I've stated is even remotely dishonest. I have saved every post, screenshot, and lame-ass excuse you made after begging and demanding me to fight you and I'll gladly repost them if you'd like to re-live the cringe-worthy embarrassment you made of yourself. Now get off my nuts, you asked for this. I never cared to deal with you nor have I ever asked to interact with you.
P.S. Pull my stats, genius. I registered here in 2006 when a bunch of FA players came here to check out the game. I never played until 2013, however, because I saw videos and didn't like the ranking system, so I left after like 2 days of asking questions (check my post history). I stopped playing sims entirely in 2008. In 2013, I came back to sims and it was the only MMO-type combat sim, so I checked out AH again. So yeah, I genuinely and quite literally had only played 11 months. Sorry, you really were that bad.
Man you are insufferable. I just watched the entire film there. First of all, Batfink has always been a formidable opponent and great friend to many in AH. He went out of his way to show me the basics and teach me how to duel way back in 2005. He's always been an extremely nice person and excellent person to converse with. He is very much correct that people aren't going to care about your flying skills as much as they remember how truely petulant you are to almost every person who challenges you in this game. That's what people will remember. Who cares if you beat someone in a duel one time and have film. No one considers that evidence of anything except one duel one time. Bats prime was in 2003- 2006 before he had a family and could play a lot. I've dueled Bat over 100 times probably and we've never kept score. You are probably the only player in AH history who keeps score on duels to rub it in people's faces to pretend like you are some holier than thou stick in AH. It's completely clownish and hasnt earned you any respect. The only scores that have some what mattered in AH dueling were the tournaments back then by Baldeagle and even still in the grand scheme it didn't matter to anyone outside of the game and no one went around bragging about it and throwing it in people's faces.
So going back this duel here. First off, I think Batfink beat you 4 times In a row. He then beat you 5-3. Which you always state it's best out of 5 in general duels. If you didnt here, than its not "official" as you like to say. Secondly, if this were some kind of a competive duel, I don't think Bat would have flown a Yak3 twice or 190D twice for the fun of a rematch. Not a single spit duel suprised me. Thirdly, you should have died many times but it seems Batfinks bullets aren't working as he drilled you many many times with little damage to you. I'm not sure why, but if bullets actually worked as they should, you wouldn't have lasted. Then the last kill you HO collide and batfink gets the worst of it, but you claim it's "your kill" when he didn't actually crash and you didn't finish him off. Therefore, it's not necessarily your win, however there was not set limits on the duel and therefore you could say Batfink beat you 5-3 or 6-4 and he could have left but he conitnued to duel you. So saying he lost the duel is bascially your own interpretation of it. Batfink clearly won that duel if his bullets actually worked, that was frustrating to see. The G2 and P51 runs blew my mind how many bullets he put into you with 0 damage, so perhaps that is luck or internet lag issues, but non the less he should have got those kills. These are certainly not duels to brag about or try to rub it in because Batfink clearly was the better fighter here.
He's right though with this comment. This is why most have such a problem with you, it's not your flying. It's the way you act towards players in this game and you think you are doing well in your attempts to disgrace them, but it's merely just making you look like a total Azzh0le. Duels use to be about fun and integrity in AH, where most become friends after, but since you came along that has been ruined which is why no one wants to duel you or try to be friends with you. I'm not sure why you are proud of that...
"I just wish you would get a little sportsmanship and some self respect and drop the ego. Because that accusation is dead on. It's all ego based for you. Worse, you seem to actively want to annoy people. With your skills and the obvious excess of time you have to waste you could put a little effort in and really be an ambassador for this game. Yet you choose to constantly try to annoy people."
Also, I'm curious what "private squad forums" you had. Who gave you access to that? Are you talking about our AH squad forum? I don't believe we ever had discussions like that.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Skyyr on April 25, 2024, 09:32:18 AM
Do you want to tackle the question of your forum account registered in 2006 contradicting your claim to not having flown in aces high until 2014?
I'm sure there is a perfectly believable explanation.
You could always pull the stats, like I said. I've registered on many forums and never played games there. I registered on IL2 back in 2015 and didnt fly till 2018. Same with DCS.
Unfortunately for you, I genuinely didn't fly until 2013. Too bad, so sad.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Skyyr on April 25, 2024, 09:34:33 AM
Dude, let me be clear: I NEVER asked to duel Batface. Never. NOT ONCE. He DEMANDED I duel him. He made it public. He spammed forum posts and then went in-game on 200 claiming Kruel and I were too afraid to get beaten by him.
He lost.
Spare me the moral grandstanding. He asked for the duels, so don't you dare act like I'm taking them out of context.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Simon on April 25, 2024, 10:28:50 AM
You could always pull the stats, like I said. I've registered on many forums and never played games there. I registered on IL2 back in 2015 and didnt fly till 2018. Same with DCS.
Unfortunately for you, I genuinely didn't fly until 2013. Too bad, so sad.
More lies, from a proven liar and cheater. How about all your shade accounts, which you've subsequently admitted to and/or posted videos of? Right, Adonai? Ertus, Starfox, Russyn, Achilles... Just off the top of my head. I'm sure that's just a fraction of them.
Every time I poke my head in these forums I find you've one-upped yourself as the most pathetic person I have ever come across in this or any other game. Well, other than Vraciu/Palace_Cobra fluffer accounts. That's a whole 'nother level of crazy.
Dumpster fire doesn't even begin to describe what's happened here in the last 6 months.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Skyyr on April 25, 2024, 10:32:08 AM
More lies, from a proven liar and cheater. How about all your shade accounts, which you've subsequently admitted to and/or posted videos of? Right, Adonai? Ertus, Starfox, Russyn, Achilles... Just off the top of my head. I'm sure that's just a fraction of them.
Every time I poke my head in these forums I find you've one-upped yourself as the most pathetic person I have ever come across in this or any other game. Well, other than Vraciu/Palace_Cobra fluffer accounts. That's a whole 'nother level of crazy.
Dumpster fire doesn't even begin to describe what's happened here in the last 6 months.
I know things like math and breathing are hard for you, but all of those names came after 2013. It's almost like you're just slapping your keyboard without thinking, but then again that's the norm with you.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: mechanic on April 25, 2024, 10:32:23 AM
Final interaction I can offer you Skyr. It comes in the form of a few of questions. I genuinely care about all sentient life forms so please try your best to take this as an olive branch.
1. Do you want to become a contributing member of this tiny little community and if so, what type of contribution do you envision?
2. Does your hatred for humanity come directly from your perception of this community or is it from damage and pain that you have suffered in real life?
3. Does feeling like a superior cartoon pilot actually heal that damage or does it just temporarily mask it much like any other self destructive addiction? (the tendency being to need ever more powerful highs as the self medication progresses)
4. If you were somehow able to break down your stratospheric defensive walls would you be able to accept the love that this community has shown thousands of people over the last two decades?
5. Finally, if you could achieve a positive result on question 4, don't you think that your pain and suffering would stand more chance of healing through acceptance of love than through 'watching the world burn'?
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Simon on April 25, 2024, 10:39:26 AM
I know things like math and breathing are hard for you, but all of those names came after 2013. It's almost like you're just slapping your keyboard without thinking, but then again that's the norm with you.
Uh, I think you missed my point. You denied being every one of them. You LIED and said they weren't you, over and over again. Why on earth would anyone believe a single word you have to say?
To summarize, you are a proven liar and cheater.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Skyyr on April 25, 2024, 10:40:48 AM
Uh, I think you missed my point. You denied being every one of them. You LIED and said they weren't you, over and over again. Why on earth would anyone believe a single word you have to say?
To summarize, you are a proven liar and cheater.
Of course I denied it, I was banned. I know logic isn't your strength. Since coming back and being pardoned, I've been upfront about my shades.
"OMG SKYYR DENIED USING A SHADE WHEN HE WAS BANNED." Hey genius, water's also wet.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Simon on April 25, 2024, 10:46:50 AM
Of course I denied it, I was banned. I know logic isn't your strength. Since coming back and being pardoned, I've been upfront about my shades.
"OMG SKYYR DENIED USING A SHADE WHEN HE WAS BANNED." Hey genius, water's also wet.
Attempting to justify your lying does not change the fact that you are a liar. Just like when you cheated the system to circumvent your ban for cheating on multiple occasions makes you a cheater.
You might want to investigate your water=wet analogy too.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Skyyr on April 25, 2024, 10:48:11 AM
Attempting to justify your lying does not change the fact that you are a liar. Just like when you cheated the system to circumvent your ban for cheating on multiple occasions makes you a cheater.
You might want to investigate your water=wet analogy too.
Actually it makes me a cracker/bypasser. Cheating requires having an unfair advantage in a game or system. You may want to brush up on your terminology.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Bopgun on April 25, 2024, 10:54:36 AM
Simon, Mechanic, and Violator - Do you guys have an opinion on the OP? Skyyr gave his input which I would tend to agree with, however I'm curious at to what you guys may think.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Simon on April 25, 2024, 10:59:00 AM
Actually it makes me a cracker/bypasser. Cheating requires having an unfair advantage in a game or system. You may want to brush up on your terminology.
You were banned for creating "an unfair advantage in a game or system" - a.k.a. cheating. You presently run multiple accounts to do the very same thing.
You should also have been banned for being a "cracker/hacker", just like you were in Fighter Ace, and would be from any other game that wasn't so desperate for cash.
You cannot hide from your past. You perhaps could have changed your ugly legacy when you were allowed back, but instead chose to double-down. Now you're stuck with it forever.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Simon on April 25, 2024, 11:01:26 AM
Simon, Mechanic, and Violator - Do you guys have an opinion on the OP? Skyyr gave his input which I would tend to agree with, however I'm curious at to what you guys may think.
I'm with Shane on this. Match Play should end when someone achieves a six-shot. Trogdor and I (amongst others) had endless fun with that mutual understanding over the years. That's the difference between a for-fun duel and a grudge match.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Eagler on April 25, 2024, 11:02:08 AM
Always thought they must not have any real life issues if they spend so much time typing the ridiculous crap here..
Or they have severe real life issues they distraction themselves from it here typing this irrelevant noise...
Hope it's the 1st one..
Eagler
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Skyyr on April 25, 2024, 11:03:05 AM
You were banned for creating "an unfair advantage in a game or system" - a.k.a. cheating. You presently run multiple accounts to do the very same thing.
Literally, no. Ask Gman for the film if you'd like to see why I was banned. The fact you keep parroting your same BS tells me you never knew the reason nor saw the original film.
Keep crying Simon. You were crying when I had one account, you cried when our squad went to 2 accounts to promote fights, you're crying even now as a non-player.
Judge says "hello" btw lol
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: mechanic on April 25, 2024, 11:07:44 AM
Simon, Mechanic, and Violator - Do you guys have an opinion on the OP? Skyyr gave his input which I would tend to agree with, however I'm curious at to what you guys may think.
Hello Bopgun,
I believe Skyrr to be suffering in some way that I've outlined in my previous post in this thread. The questions I've asked there highlight precisely what I believe the problem to be. I ask them with genuine concern. I do not have much hope that he will engage on that subject. But I do know one thing. If healing was the goal then this community is populated by enough loving and generous people that, even from the sordid depths of this dweebery, Skyrr still has an avenue to become a respected and positive member of this community.
If you're asking me about face shots in a duel? Couldn't give a rats arse.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Simon on April 25, 2024, 11:17:38 AM
LOL you sound just like Judge and all the other troglodytes who are quick to say "waa" or "cry" when they are checkmated with logic and reason.
Play semantics all you like. As a proven liar your words mean nothing. You are and always were a cheater, willing to do anything and everything to gain even the slightest advantage regardless of gamesmanship, fair play or rules.
People don't get banned from video games for being good at them. They get banned for cheating and hacking. Just like you were in Fighter Ace. Just like you were here, and should still be.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Bopgun on April 25, 2024, 11:29:41 AM
I'm with Shane on this. Match Play should end when someone achieves a six-shot. Trogdor and I (amongst others) had endless fun with that mutual understanding over the years. That's the difference between a for-fun duel and a grudge match.
So like "dead six-shots" are the proper method of fun dueling? It's interesting because I've fought Trogdor in the DA alot and he's never had and issue with the way I fly as far as I know. Some screenshots for reference. If you could point out which ones are "For-fun" vs "Grudge Match" style I guess.
Quote
Hello Bopgun,
I believe Skyrr to be suffering in some way that I've outlined in my previous post in this thread. The questions I've asked there highlight precisely what I believe the problem to be. I ask them with genuine concern. I do not have much hope that he will engage on that subject. But I do know one thing. If healing was the goal then this community is populated by enough loving and generous people that, even from the sordid depths of this dweebery, Skyrr still has an avenue to become a respected and positive member of this community.
If you're asking me about face shots in a duel? Couldn't give a rats arse.
If you don't care about the OP thats fine, but the 10+ year argument is kind of a derail.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: mechanic on April 25, 2024, 11:35:51 AM
My friend, there are literally hundreds of threads spanning two decades on the subject of head on shots.
You'll be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks the topic deserves more than a cursory glance. Every opinion you could ever hear about it has been repeated ad infinitum. Use the search bar for further investigation.
S!
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Simon on April 25, 2024, 11:44:31 AM
So like "dead six-shots" are the proper method of fun dueling? It's interesting because I've fought Trogdor in the DA alot and he's never had and issue with the way I fly as far as I know. Some screenshots for reference. If you could point out which ones are "For-fun" vs "Grudge Match" style I guess.
Sis, TBH I didn't watch the films, and only glanced through the commentary, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. On a general level though, I've always enjoyed the duels that last long enough for someone to achieve a positional advantage, rather than just a shooting opportunity. Eventually the former will happen if you let it. Sure, it's a utopian view, and it is the way I prefer it, but don't expect it.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Shane on April 25, 2024, 11:51:12 AM
So like "dead six-shots" are the proper method of fun dueling? It's interesting because I've fought Trogdor in the DA alot and he's never had and issue with the way I fly as far as I know. Some screenshots for reference. If you could point out which ones are "For-fun" vs "Grudge Match" style I guess. If you don't care about the OP thats fine, but the 10+ year argument is kind of a derail.
No "dead-six" isn't it. The shots you took were valid from your perspective (and a formal dueling bracket perspective.) They're just not the kind of fights I'm there for.
Let me put it this way - if I wanted MA style fights, I'll stick to the MA.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Skyyr on April 25, 2024, 12:04:06 PM
LOL you sound just like Judge and all the other troglodytes who are quick to say "waa" or "cry" when they are checkmated with logic and reason.
Logic and reason would dictate not doing things like crying on the forums when you die in a game, or whining about "being hunted" because a person used their 6 hour side-switch legally and fairly. But hey, it's very clear you aren't familiar with either.
You do you.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Simon on April 25, 2024, 12:35:55 PM
Logic and reason would dictate not doing things like crying on the forums when you die in a game, or whining about "being hunted" because a person used their 6 hour side-switch legally and fairly. But hey, it's very clear you aren't familiar with either.
You do you.
What's illogical is that you keep denying that you hunt people using nefarious methods despite being called out for it many times by numerous veteran players, each of whom actually has credibility. Unlike you, a proven liar and cheater. You have put a ridiculous amount of time and effort into trying to defend the indefensible.
Using the word "crying" when someone documents your despicable behavior is a clear signal that you realize you've lost the argument or are incapable of formulating a reasoned response. Do you need a link to a thesaurus, or perhaps a dictionary?
Give it up man. You're clearly not cut out for this. You're much more effective at destroying the game by playing it. In here you just seem entirely out of your league.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Skyyr on April 25, 2024, 12:58:18 PM
What's illogical is that you keep denying that you hunt people using nefarious methods despite being called out for it many times by numerous veteran players, each of whom actually has credibility. Unlike you, a proven liar and cheater. You have put a ridiculous amount of time and effort into trying to defend the indefensible.
Using the word "crying" when someone documents your despicable behavior is a clear signal that you realize you've lost the argument or are incapable of formulating a reasoned response. Do you need a link to a thesaurus, or perhaps a dictionary?
Give it up man. You're clearly not cut out for this. You're much more effective at destroying the game by playing it. In here you just seem entirely out of your league.
"Nefarious methods." You mean using legitimate game mechanics? lol. Oh, I forgot, using things like dar bars, score pages, skin identification, and wingman tactics are "nefarious" lol.
I'm capable of formulating reasoned responses; but I only do so when the person is worth that effort.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Bopgun on April 25, 2024, 01:08:40 PM
Sis, TBH I didn't watch the films, and only glanced through the commentary, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. On a general level though, I've always enjoyed the duels that last long enough for someone to achieve a positional advantage, rather than just a shooting opportunity. Eventually the former will happen if you let it. Sure, it's a utopian view, and it is the way I prefer it, but don't expect it.
I can appreciate that, If you ever are curious and end up taking a look I would be happy to hear what you think. I get it if you'd rather not bother.
No "dead-six" isn't it. The shots you took were valid from your perspective (and a formal dueling bracket perspective.) They're just not the kind of fights I'm there for.
Let me put it this way - if I wanted MA style fights, I'll stick to the MA.
That's fair, I can respect your opinion in that matter. I'm simply trying to see if others in our small community feel the same way as you - The OP wasn't really directed at you(It does involve you so It's reasonable that you'd respond).
My friend, there are literally hundreds of threads spanning two decades on the subject of head on shots.
You'll be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks the topic deserves more than a cursory glance. Every opinion you could ever hear about it has been repeated ad infinitum. Use the search bar for further investigation.
S!
See the problem I have is you're like the only dude flaming this thread who has not offered any kind of real input or even acknowledged the subject of the OP. If you did you would clearly see that the issue isn't really "Face shots".
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: LCADolby on April 25, 2024, 01:09:23 PM
See the problem I have is you're like the only dude flaming this thread who has not offered any kind of real input or even acknowledged the subject of the OP. If you did you would clearly see that the issue isn't really "Face shots".
guilty :aok
I find skyr's obsessive desire to watch this community burn to the ground more enticing. Forgive me. I'll leave your thread alone.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Skyyr on April 25, 2024, 01:36:49 PM
Back on topic, the actual problem here comes from a lack of understanding of ACM.
Front-quarter shots (and all shots forward of the 3/9 line) are important because they are a constant threat and need to be defended against in a merge situation. The threat of the shot is what keeps the merge neutral, all things being equal. By having to defend against such shots, it either prevents wide, unguarded lead-turns at the merge or it makes it a trade-off for such a turn, where big gains can be made but at a large risk.
By removing the threat of a front-quarter shot, you negatively impact tactics in two regards: you penalize those with good aim and you penalize those with heavier wing-loaded aircraft that have heavier armament. Additionally, you train and ingrain the bad habit of telegraphing your intentions prior to the merge.
The threat of a front-quarter shot coincidentally makes merges more complex and calculated; removing them makes them predictable and very game-able. Additionally, the skill of merges without shot risk doesn't translate well whatsoever to any other simulator environment.
Conversely, the benefits of the front-quarter shot aren't without drawbacks. Due to the high rate of closure, any shot taken means the attacking aircraft will be at a disadvantage if their shot does not connect after the aircraft pass, as they will have given up angular advantage. The front-quarter shot is also the easiest attack to defend against, because it offers the smallest aircraft profile and a known general vector for the bandit.
Put simply: if you can't avoid a HO, you're doing something majorly wrong.
Last but not least, and perhaps most ironic of all, is where the idea of not taking front-quarter shots came from. It came from AW if I remember correctly. The devs couldn't code an adequately-accurate hitbox on the front of enemy aircraft, so it became comically-easy to hit another enemy aircraft head-on as the hitbox was larger than the aircraft itself. The resulting fix was to reduce damage taken head-on/front-quarter by 90% IIRC, to discourage abuse of the oversized hitbox. This resulted in duels avoiding tactics that used the HO because you lost angles and time in trade for virtually no given damage.
This came over to AH when pilots migrated from one sim to the other and the habit remained.
The disdain of front-quarter shots has nothing to do whatsoever with skill or ACM, it came from a coding limitation of another game. It's literally the gamiest aspect of dueling that has nothing to do with actual tactics.
The disdain shown by certain posters in this thread for high-angle deflection shots highlight the same lack of awareness as outlined above. Every deflection shot taken is a tradeoff for time and angles. If a defending pilot cannot make use of such counter-tactics, then it's due to a deficiency in the defenders tactics.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Shane on April 25, 2024, 02:26:15 PM
This you, right? How'd avoiding the HO work out for you? Oh, right, you claimed this as a "win."
Jousting is boring. Sit down.
These were fights of you rage-quitting, right? Because you couldn't defend against a front-quarter shot? :D
I rest my case.
29-6. Boring AF.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Bopgun on April 25, 2024, 02:39:43 PM
Quote
Last but not least, and perhaps most ironic of all, is where the idea of not taking front-quarter shots came from. It came from AW if I remember correctly. The devs couldn't code an adequately-accurate hitbox on the front of enemy aircraft, so it became comically-easy to hit another enemy aircraft head-on as the hitbox was larger than the aircraft itself. The resulting fix was to reduce damage taken head-on/front-quarter by 90% IIRC, to discourage abuse of the oversized hitbox. This resulted in duels avoiding tactics that used the HO because you lost angles and time in trade for virtually no given damage.
That is pretty interesting.
I agree with you in general in regards to the whole "HO vs No HO" debate, however I don't mind flying to predetermined rules/agreements.
Would these shots be considered "Front Quarter" from my prospective? I guess what still confuses me is what exactly is considered a front quarter shot is it 3-9 is it 10-2 is it 11-1?
I really wish those tri-annual dueling brackets were still a thing, real community sanctioned competition was a highlight of this game for me. KOTH and Combat Challenge were some of the most fun I've had in flight sims.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Eagler on April 25, 2024, 03:17:30 PM
Do I need a protractor now?
:cheers:
Eagler
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Shane on April 25, 2024, 03:26:30 PM
These were fights of you rage-quitting, right? Because you couldn't defend against a front-quarter shot? :D I rest my case. 29-6. Boring AF.
Spin harder, ego-boi, lofl, "rage quitting" - I simply walked out as you begged and begged for a chance to validate your weego.
I don't do DA for competition or ego; been there, done that - got the formal bracket wins to show for it. You even? How about the informal ones that were also ran - used to be a subforum for it.
It's amusing watching you flail and scream and pout on your way out.
Fun vs ego. My legacy > yours.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Skyyr on April 25, 2024, 03:28:24 PM
Spin harder, ego-boi, lofl, "rage quitting" - I simply walked out as you begged and begged for a chance to validate your weego.
I don't do DA for competition or ego; been there, done that - got the formal bracket wins to show for it. You even? How about the informal ones that were also ran - used to be a subforum for it.
It's amusing watching you flail and scream and pout on your way out.
Fun vs ego. My legacy > yours.
"I used to be good." -- Shane
29 - 6
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Shane on April 25, 2024, 03:52:07 PM
Simon, Mechanic, and Violator - Do you guys have an opinion on the OP? Skyyr gave his input which I would tend to agree with, however I'm curious at to what you guys may think.
Finally able to get 5 minutes and check these out. This is completely my non biased and objective view of the fights.
1st film I-16 v P51B. - I do not understand how Shane didn't kill you there, was all over Sis and should have easily won. The merge was good. The flat spin at the end was freaking hilarious.
2nd film - In fairness, Shane could have easily drilled you at 1:40 as I don't think you would have been able to get a shot. He held off. Now at the end, seeing as Shane was going about 60mph at the top of the rope as you came down and his nose was pointed away in a total flat stall. I don't presumably consider this a HO and is fair game. If you were both nose on and had E to maintain shooting posture, then it would have been. I don't see Shane as being able to get you nose on there.
Film 3 - I don't see anything here thats outa the norm. This was an unorthodox merge. Anyone would have taken this shot and it didn't even damage shane, and he got the subsequent reverse shot on the back end. Sis technically rolled around him here and got flaps out for a nice shot. Shane could have wiggled the wings to cause a miss. A more powerful P47N is going to be able get around quicker than a P51B which doesn't turn that great to begin with. I would generally put my money on a P47N all day in this fight but I feel Shane could have done more to avoid this shot. Not sure how that can be construed as a weak shot.
:salute
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Bopgun on April 25, 2024, 05:51:18 PM
Finally able to get 5 minutes and check these out. This is completely my non biased and objective view of the fights.
1st film I-16 v P51B. - I do not understand how Shane didn't kill you there, was all over Sis and should have easily won. The merge was good. The flat spin at the end was freaking hilarious.
2nd film - In fairness, Shane could have easily drilled you at 1:40 as I don't think you would have been able to get a shot. He held off. Now at the end, seeing as Shane was going about 60mph at the top of the rope as you came down and his nose was pointed away in a total flat stall. I don't presumably consider this a HO and is fair game. If you were both nose on and had E to maintain shooting posture, then it would have been. I don't see Shane as being able to get you nose on there.
Film 3 - I don't see anything here thats outa the norm. This was an unorthodox merge. Anyone would have taken this shot and it didn't even damage shane, and he got the subsequent reverse shot on the back end. Sis technically rolled around him here and got flaps out for a nice shot. Shane could have wiggled the wings to cause a miss. A more powerful P47N is going to be able get around quicker than a P51B which doesn't turn that great to begin with. I would generally put my money on a P47N all day in this fight but I feel Shane could have done more to avoid this shot. Not sure how that can be construed as a weak shot.
:salute
Thanks for that analysis bud. I also agree with you, for the most part. The purpose of this thread was not to brag or claim superiority, merely to see if I was in fact being un-sportsman like in my flying.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: DmonSlyr on April 25, 2024, 07:19:48 PM
My theory on HOs in dueling in AH is that you should give the HO to your opponent if you are both turning nose on. Ie, you both should try to get nose pointed at nose to acknowledge that a HO could be given and thus "resets" the for the next manuever. This ensures there is no questionable shots, ie, I was pulling off to set up an angle and assumed it would be a HO and therefore no shot should have been attempted. I think players should establish those barriers upon entering the match. I think direct HOs contradict the intended purpose of a duel. Jousting is just too risky and IMO doesn't necessarily constitute skill given all of the variables. Of course the toughest decision to make is do I pull the trigger in this emmilman that I'm already inside them on, knowing that they will get the nose on you. I do believe there is a threshold for that and there should be some determination whether making the shot is just trying to be cheap. There are times in these fights where you are low n slow and coming around and both are lined up for a shot, I don't believe these types of shots should be made as it ruins the concept of the duel and ruins the fight.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Eagler on April 26, 2024, 07:37:37 AM
Unless otherwise stated isn't a ho expected on any pass but the first one?
Too difficult to say what isn't a ho between 10 and 2 imo
Eagler
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Shane on April 26, 2024, 07:54:50 AM
Unless otherwise stated isn't a ho expected on any pass but the first one? Too difficult to say what isn't a ho between 10 and 2 imo
Eagler
When it's a formal competitive duel, sure... When you're just having fun, not so much. (that's where you see me say things like, "really" you're taking that shot?" to put the other on notice I'm not there for that.
How many front quarter shots do you hold in MNM - I hold a lot just because... Same idea...
That's exactly why I shredded the p47n in a la7 the last fight with stepsis, or whacked down grizz way back when - you want a valid shot, I'll give you one.
And they come with the risk of a mutual collision or ho... I can take those shots or crossing snapshots, prefer not.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Eagler on April 26, 2024, 08:11:04 AM
MNM is great in that respect..
Not much forward of 9/3 are taken in there
I think it's because egos are left at the door of that arena
Too bad MA isn't more like it
Eagler
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: The Fugitive on April 26, 2024, 08:25:20 AM
This is not meant to be a flamebait thread, I'm genuinely curious as to what the community thinks. Are any of these shoots or maneuvers really that underhanded? Have I unwittingly wronged a dear friend of mine? Or perhaps someone is projecting their damaged ego onto others after a set of light hearted Match play fights?
Regardless <S> Shane, I still say you're a good competitor and look forward to all our futures fights to come.
For me the whole thing boils down to what type of fight you are looking for. Some players only want the kills, some players want the fight.
In a fight for "kills", all shots are valid even HOs, because you are fighting for a kill. The first one to kill wins period.
In a fight for "the fight" the point is to work over the other player to force him into a position where he/she is out of options and THEN you kill them. This option I believe takes more skill. Both players are playing chess and are working to get the other player backed into a corner.
So you just have to ask yourself "what kind of fight am I looking for?" Even in the MA its easy to figure out what type of fight the other player is looking for. If the other guy is HOin and picking then they are only in it for KILLS, fight him accordingly, all shots are valid. If they come in and dont fire on a head on/front quarter merge odds are pretty good that want to tangle, fight them accordingly by pushing for that shot where they no longer have an option other than dying. In the DA I would think if you werent going for the quickest kill you'd talk that over before the first flight. Otherwise Im sure that is all you are going to get in there, hence the unwritten rule "no firing on the first merge but after that its on"
I have always preferred the fights where you push a player until they are out of options. That is most likely why I hate HOers and pickers so much. I find that those "chess match" fights are ALWAYS the nailbitting fights that get your heart pounding and you spend 10 minutes in the tower after the fight, win or lose, patting each other on the back while you catch your breath before you can roll again.
So, if dueling talk it out before you roll. In the MA, you have to go more with the flow. Either your going for kills, or your looking for a fight. Its up to you which you call it.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Shane on April 26, 2024, 09:07:29 AM
MNM is great in that respect.. Not much forward of 9/3 are taken in there.
I think it's because egos are left at the door of that arena - Too bad MA isn't more like it
Eagler
And there you have it. Fun vs ego.
And when I say ego, I don't necessarily mean an arrogant projection like some are wont to do, but also in the sense of doing whatever it takes to get the win, or to avoid a loss.
So, yeah, it's about mindsets and communication in the DA. I've had many fun fights with Stepsis but ego seems to be creeping in because they're seeking competition and want to get better and learn some new tricks. Which is fine, but that changed our prior norm of fun.
tbh, it was the engine toggling on the ta152 that literally gave me a microsecond pause in that engagement as I asked myself, did I just see Stepsis do that? That immediately shifted fun to ego from my perspective.
My motivations aren't there for competitive duels these days, but I'm capable of the occasional display.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Shane on April 26, 2024, 09:10:00 AM
For me the whole thing boils down to what type of fight you are looking for. Some players only want the kills, some players want the fight.
In a fight for "kills", all shots are valid even HOs, because you are fighting for a kill. The first one to kill wins period.
In a fight for "the fight" the point is to work over the other player to force him into a position where he/she is out of options and THEN you kill them. This option I believe takes more skill. Both players are playing chess and are working to get the other player backed into a corner.
So you just have to ask yourself "what kind of fight am I looking for?" Even in the MA its easy to figure out what type of fight the other player is looking for. If the other guy is HOin and picking then they are only in it for KILLS, fight him accordingly, all shots are valid. If they come in and dont fire on a head on/front quarter merge odds are pretty good that want to tangle, fight them accordingly by pushing for that shot where they no longer have an option other than dying. In the DA I would think if you werent going for the quickest kill you'd talk that over before the first flight. Otherwise Im sure that is all you are going to get in there, hence the unwritten rule "no firing on the first merge but after that its on"
I have always preferred the fights where you push a player until they are out of options. That is most likely why I hate HOers and pickers so much. I find that those "chess match" fights are ALWAYS the nailbitting fights that get your heart pounding and you spend 10 minutes in the tower after the fight, win or lose, patting each other on the back while you catch your breath before you can roll again.
So, if dueling talk it out before you roll. In the MA, you have to go more with the flow. Either your going for kills, or your looking for a fight. Its up to you which you call it.
This is a very good assessment that might provide more clarity to the matter.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: LilMak on April 26, 2024, 09:32:46 AM
For me the whole thing boils down to what type of fight you are looking for. Some players only want the kills, some players want the fight.
In a fight for "kills", all shots are valid even HOs, because you are fighting for a kill. The first one to kill wins period.
In a fight for "the fight" the point is to work over the other player to force him into a position where he/she is out of options and THEN you kill them. This option I believe takes more skill. Both players are playing chess and are working to get the other player backed into a corner.
So you just have to ask yourself "what kind of fight am I looking for?" Even in the MA its easy to figure out what type of fight the other player is looking for. If the other guy is HOin and picking then they are only in it for KILLS, fight him accordingly, all shots are valid. If they come in and dont fire on a head on/front quarter merge odds are pretty good that want to tangle, fight them accordingly by pushing for that shot where they no longer have an option other than dying. In the DA I would think if you werent going for the quickest kill you'd talk that over before the first flight. Otherwise Im sure that is all you are going to get in there, hence the unwritten rule "no firing on the first merge but after that its on"
I have always preferred the fights where you push a player until they are out of options. That is most likely why I hate HOers and pickers so much. I find that those "chess match" fights are ALWAYS the nailbitting fights that get your heart pounding and you spend 10 minutes in the tower after the fight, win or lose, patting each other on the back while you catch your breath before you can roll again.
So, if dueling talk it out before you roll. In the MA, you have to go more with the flow. Either your going for kills, or your looking for a fight. Its up to you which you call it.
Very well said. I got absolutely destroyed in the “kill” category last night (pretty normal). But I had one excellent fight with TheStig and that made the entire night a win. When “fights” finally dry up, I’ll probably be bowing out of AH.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Bopgun on April 26, 2024, 11:56:00 AM
For me the whole thing boils down to what type of fight you are looking for. Some players only want the kills, some players want the fight.
In a fight for "kills", all shots are valid even HOs, because you are fighting for a kill. The first one to kill wins period.
In a fight for "the fight" the point is to work over the other player to force him into a position where he/she is out of options and THEN you kill them. This option I believe takes more skill. Both players are playing chess and are working to get the other player backed into a corner.
So you just have to ask yourself "what kind of fight am I looking for?" Even in the MA its easy to figure out what type of fight the other player is looking for. If the other guy is HOin and picking then they are only in it for KILLS, fight him accordingly, all shots are valid. If they come in and dont fire on a head on/front quarter merge odds are pretty good that want to tangle, fight them accordingly by pushing for that shot where they no longer have an option other than dying. In the DA I would think if you werent going for the quickest kill you'd talk that over before the first flight. Otherwise Im sure that is all you are going to get in there, hence the unwritten rule "no firing on the first merge but after that its on"
I have always preferred the fights where you push a player until they are out of options. That is most likely why I hate HOers and pickers so much. I find that those "chess match" fights are ALWAYS the nailbitting fights that get your heart pounding and you spend 10 minutes in the tower after the fight, win or lose, patting each other on the back while you catch your breath before you can roll again.
So, if dueling talk it out before you roll. In the MA, you have to go more with the flow. Either your going for kills, or your looking for a fight. Its up to you which you call it.
So what was your impression of the fights in the OP, "Kill" or "Fight"
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: The Fugitive on April 26, 2024, 01:50:43 PM
What's my opinion have to do with it? That was up to you and shane as to which type of fight you wanted to have.
But if you want to know what I think by viewing the films, to me being in the DA it automatically lends itself to "kill" unless you guys specified something else before hand. Your kills were due to shanes mistakes by pushing too hard for that shot for the kill. You showed the same by plinking away at him with shots you knew had no chance of taking him down, yet you did most likely hoping for that golden BB and the kill.
Title: Re: Dweeb shots???
Post by: Eagler on April 26, 2024, 02:26:45 PM
So if a dweeb takes any shot isn't it a dweeb shot? :lol