Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: RichardDarkwood on April 28, 2024, 06:08:10 PM
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With the announcements from Eagle Dynamics on adding existing modules to the flaming cliff pack, like the F-86, and the Mig15 I am curious.
What IF they added WW2 flaming cliffs modules? would more aces high players go that route?
For those reading this that have no idea what flaming cliffs is....aircraft that your used to with no clickable cockpits.
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The draw of Aces High over DCS imo is a familiar arena capable of hosting hundreds available 24/7. DCS does not have that. Probably never will.
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The draw of Aces High over DCS imo is a familiar arena capable of hosting hundreds available 24/7. DCS does not have that. Probably never will.
Things might converge.
Well, AH is *capable* of hundreds.
Often in mid-30's.
The other night, prime-US time weeknight, AH had 78 players.
When Enigma CW was running their larger config, They were regularly putting 80+ players with more at the door waiting to get in.
AH server tech has the potential of hosting hundreds. We all remember those days. DCS might never get to that due to tech constraints, but AH might never again due to player count decline. And DCS with two sides is different than spreading across 3 fronts. 80 players on CW would be like getting 200 players in the Melee as far as density and activity.
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Reducing AH to 2 sides is what is needed with today's sub count..
Smaller maps and two sides would breathe new life into the game imo
Not sure there is any energy behind any change as development is dead as far as anyone can tell ...
Eagler
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The draw of Aces High over DCS imo is a familiar arena capable of hosting hundreds available 24/7. DCS does not have that. Probably never will.
Not only is this true, lacking the technology, the list of differences is longer. Top of the list they are not the same mindsets.
Lack of AC
DCS could never pull iff MotA without splattering it with AI, trippy’s favorite, AHers want nothing to do with AI.
Tripps wet dream is not going to happen. But like a bible thumper he fluffs up a bad situation, trying his best to ignore the pit falls.
ED doesn’t make their own AC, and currently nothing is in production including bug fixes.
Compared to AH, DCS is extremely boring, less fights than almost empty AH arena which is still more fun.
Some won’t make the move just to spite what Trippy did to these boards , he now works against himself.
Most AHers who take up DCS go elsewhere for actual fun.
Trippy is trying to convince AHers who live real human MA fighting to settle for AI. This guy is disconnected, with a very severe OCD obsession with killing AH for s migration to something they do not want.
Lets not even mention the ver lame DCS community snd their own loss of numbers.
What ever chance Trippy had has passed. Its all repeat delusional fixation.
You might be fond if AH, Trippy wants it dead to protect his investment that is now hanging in the wind. IL-2 would benefit more. Not DCS. Besides most have him on ignore now. He preaches to the choir now. As it should be.
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Kinda funny. Trippy recites SUMMER numbers when convenient.
Yet ignored winter numbers of 200 at all cost.
Its summer, they flying nothing.
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Sig line.
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Sig line.
Wasn’t talking to you, you don’t rate that high
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Some find Flaming Cliffs enjoyable probably as I do, but for total fun factor in WW 2 aircraft I find AH more enjoyable. DCS can become as much work as it is fun. Especially in the modern era aircraft.
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Real aircraft are work. The more you work at it the more automatic it becomes. Skill hard earned is more meaningful than not.
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Some find Flaming Cliffs enjoyable probably as I do, but for total fun factor in WW 2 aircraft I find AH more enjoyable. DCS can become as much work as it is fun. Especially in the modern era aircraft.
In a way I can somewhat agree.
But the details of DCS and the flight management add to the immersive situations. I bought all the Warbirds at once minus the Mossie and the I-16. So far the P-51 is the best one. The mirror in that plane alone man is crazy as hell. Amazes me how they got that mirror to work that good.
Most of the Aces High players I have know over the years that have tried DCS Warbirds all said the same thing. They did get the plane to takeoff but blew the engine up when in the air. They tried it about three times then gave up.
I figured that if DCS made the Warbirds into flaming cliffs mode it would help to retain players.
And for all the crap people talk about DCS, they are just not ready for that level of immersion and excitement.
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Things might converge.
Well, AH is *capable* of hundreds.
Often in mid-30's.
The other night, prime-US time weeknight, AH had 78 players.
When Enigma CW was running their larger config, They were regularly putting 80+ players with more at the door waiting to get in.
AH server tech has the potential of hosting hundreds. We all remember those days. DCS might never get to that due to tech constraints, but AH might never again due to player count decline. And DCS with two sides is different than spreading across 3 fronts. 80 players on CW would be like getting 200 players in the Melee as far as density and activity.
I've been on and off ah3 for the past year. What happened to the game for such low numbers in that time? I know it's mid spring to summer numbers dip but 78 is like midnight hour east coast on a Wednesday night type numbers when I played.
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pull back air filter lever during take off dirt fields........ :airplane:
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What happened to the game for such low numbers in that time?
There is no specific single event that caused it. It's just a long decline in player numbers since about 2010. Basically, the game can't attract enough fresh blood. (And no that's not just a 'lack of advertising)
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And for all the crap people talk about DCS, they are just not ready for that level of immersion and excitement.
You've been told 300 times.
There's a difference between "ready for" and "desire it". Seems you're not ready for actual fighting.
And that's just the beginning of it.
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You've been told 300 times.
There's a difference between "ready for" and "desire it". Seems you're not ready for actual fighting.
And that's just the beginning of it.
Tell me 301 times then
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ED doesn’t make their own AC, and currently nothing is in production including bug fixes.
Compared to AH, DCS is extremely boring, less fights than almost empty AH arena which is still more fun.
Where are you getting this info? ED makes plenty of their own AC.... and bug fixes are constantly worked on and patched-in on a fairly consistent schedule over the last year or more... and before that it was always an ongoing thing.
As far as fun & excitement, that's totally subjective. AH used to be tons of fun, I got bored. When I was found myself doing 1 or 2 flights a month, I decided to throw in the towel. Nothing against AH, it just got dull. On the other hand, I wasn't excited at all about DCS (had it since LockOn was released) until I decided to put in the effort to really learn the A-10 around 2014. That's when things changed. It wasn't "easy" to learn the A-10, and I have so many modules now I'd have to do some refresher if I wanted to do anything other than fly around gunning stuff. I think that's key. DCS offers literal months of new challenges on a fairly regular basis. Learn something, get proficient, have fun with it, move to the next one.
This is how I think ED is able to sustain and (I know you don't believe it) grow. The DCS server numbers over the last few years shows growth, not loss. And Steam isn't a good indicator... ED (or someone?) hamstrung Steam-DCS from the beginning. Everyone I know (and lots I don't) have from day one tried to shoo people away from the Steam version and for good reason. It's almost like DCS agreed to allow Steam to sell the game just to shut them up.
So anyway, get your toejam fixed and get that Youboob vid out... and more. Nobody wants to see AH die. Get enough people back and I'd be back off & on too (Granted certain riffraff had been dispensed with).
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If I had 3 wishes from a genie from a bottle, I just might spend one of them on having Dale get really healthy and be blessed with a long life, and to give him enough money to buy out ED, and use his massively multiplayer coding genius - and it is - to make a DCS plane set that is the same as the one here, and then some, and have the "Flaming Cliffs" level of difficulty along with the professional flight model (as ED/DCS calls it) for all those aircraft. Also allow the more "techincal/study sim" level WW2 planes be available in the arena for those who want to fly them, just like how FC3 planes are combined in many servers with the others.
THAT would be my "dream" online/PVP sim, 600 or so players - more if possible - have a running war on various maps with such a merging of the strengths of both DCS/AH etc , with HT's ability to create and run a game and game arena that has been my favorite online gaming experience since I started with PC gaming.
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If I had 3 wishes from a genie from a bottle, I just might spend one of them on having Dale get really healthy and be blessed with a long life, and to give him enough money to buy out ED, and use his massively multiplayer coding genius - and it is - to make a DCS plane set that is the same as the one here, and then some, and have the "Flaming Cliffs" level of difficulty along with the professional flight model (as ED/DCS calls it) for all those aircraft. Also allow the more "techincal/study sim" level WW2 planes be available in the arena for those who want to fly them, just like how FC3 planes are combined in many servers with the others.
THAT would be my "dream" online/PVP sim, 600 or so players - more if possible - have a running war on various maps with such a merging of the strengths of both DCS/AH etc , with HT's ability to create and run a game and game arena that has been my favorite online gaming experience since I started with PC gaming.
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What if you didn’t 💩 in a gracious host’s guest bedroom and ask them to have you back.
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You've been told 300 times.
There's a difference between "ready for" and "desire it". Seems you're not ready for actual fighting.
And that's just the beginning of it.
You can just say you're scared of actually having to manage the plane in a fight instead of throttling up and hitting the WEP button and it would get the same point across. :joystick:
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You can just say you're scared of actually having to manage the plane in a fight instead of throttling up and hitting the WEP button and it would get the same point across. :joystick:
Phffff!
Boring.
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for me those are two distinctly different games. Learning curve in DCS is must steeper and I can't imagine remembering all the controls and procedures specific to planes I like to fly in AH. For occasional flyer like myself, there is no chance to become truly proficient at DCS without rearranging my life. AH on the other hand is quick and easy. You get in, fly/fight/have fun, you're done. You learned one plane controls, you know the most. Rest is just "how you fly that thing?".
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There is no specific single event that caused it. It's just a long decline in player numbers since about 2010. Basically, the game can't attract enough fresh blood. (And no that's not just a 'lack of advertising)
The great split of 06 :old:
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The great split of 06 :old:
Numbers went way up after that. :noid
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Numbers went way up after that. :noid
False positive? I know lots complained and some eventually left due to getting stuck outside of the arena for prolonged time
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The economic downturn of 2008 didn't help sub numbers here
Nor will any future ones
Eagler
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False positive? I know lots complained and some eventually left due to getting stuck outside of the arena for prolonged time
The split arenas IMO too, was a false positive. #s were already on the up and up. It took a while, like economics, for the effect to have a showing impact once squads got so pissed they decided to just leave because they couldn't fly together. Or having to chose the other arena where had friends on, or lack of fight ect. To me, there was no reason at all to split the arenas, why not just have 600 people all flying at once? I had thought that was the entire point... I honestly just never understood that decision.
From what I realized about DCS, is it's really not that scary if you can get with the right people to help you get set up. It's a bit daunting at first but the ww2 planes really aren't that hard to learn and the War birds arena has auto start engines. The no icons and no map radar at all is kinda hard to tell what's going on though. I really love the dar bars in AH. AH you can still use 8 way hat switch where as DCS you really need track IR and or VR. I'm still getting use to both. I think having to buy each plane and some terrain is a pain but I've spent way more money playing AH at $15 a month lol. I do think they should have a warbid package with a few planes in order to get more market. DCS fights feel a bit tougher, and most axis sticks I've encounter have been decent but I'm still learning the flight model. The constant trim with no auto pilot and the views of following multiple planes with no icons has been challenging. It does sorta feel like flying in a vacuum sometimes. The aim is much more challenging and damage model is quite strange with the 50 cals. I do think once they have more planes, there will be some pretty big servers and big fights. I do think chevrons over the planes would be nice though.
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False positive? I know lots complained and some eventually left due to getting stuck outside of the arena for prolonged time
But still, player count went on to record highs, and it took about 2 1/2 years + until the numbers started to fall off significantly.
As much as I hated the split (which as a Euro player affected me more than most people), I can't see that as "the one decision which killed AH"
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I do think once they have more planes, there will be some pretty big servers and big fights. I do think chevrons over the planes would be nice though.
There are plenty of warbirds servers with a ton of action.
Turn your labels on as some servers have a certain level enabled.
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Yeah I never could figure out the idea behind the split. Maybe we were approaching the limits the system could bear with the numbers at that time? Only thing I could come up with. You'd think it'd be a "more the merrier" thing. There was, of course, an un-split that happened as the numbers dropped.
The numbers drop didn't come from any single reason, tho those that are still living in 2010 would certainly disagree. The internet and more specifically internet gaming is a totally different universe now than it was then. Sooo many more choices of games. Sooo many different genres of games. Sooo many new games to try. People will generally go for shiny new stuff. That's nothing new. AH, while we all know it to be a great game, is neither new or shiny. It just hasn't kept up and IMO that's what is killing it more than anything else.
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Yeah I never could figure out the idea behind the split. Maybe we were approaching the limits the system could bear with the numbers at that time? Only thing I could come up with. You'd think it'd be a "more the merrier" thing. There was, of course, an un-split that happened as the numbers dropped.
The numbers drop didn't come from any single reason, tho those that are still living in 2010 would certainly disagree. The internet and more specifically internet gaming is a totally different universe now than it was then. Sooo many more choices of games. Sooo many different genres of games. Sooo many new games to try. People will generally go for shiny new stuff. That's nothing new. AH, while we all know it to be a great game, is neither new or shiny. It just hasn't kept up and IMO that's what is killing it more than anything else.
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Basically it was as the numbers rose in the MA it became harder and harder to make friends with everyone in the arena. Community was suffering as their were too many players to get to know. That caused "peer pressure" which was one of the arenas guiding principles to go away. With out that peer pressure toxic game play starts to flourish and other players dont have as much fun. As the fun goes down, so did the subscriptions. Splitting the arenas was an attempt to get the numbers per arena back down to where the fun was up and the toxic play was down without cutting the total number of players. The equipment was and still is able to handle a thousand players per arena but the social side of the game can only handle 300-400.
A quick search found this post from Hitech (https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,190347.msg2212694.html#msg2212694)
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multi wing squads.... horde noe base grab over and over.. hordes avoiding each other
removal of the best fighter town map
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Basically it was as the numbers rose in the MA it became harder and harder to make friends with everyone in the arena. Community was suffering as their were too many players to get to know. That caused "peer pressure" which was one of the arenas guiding principles to go away. With out that peer pressure toxic game play starts to flourish and other players dont have as much fun. As the fun goes down, so did the subscriptions. Splitting the arenas was an attempt to get the numbers per arena back down to where the fun was up and the toxic play was down without cutting the total number of players. The equipment was and still is able to handle a thousand players per arena but the social side of the game can only handle 300-400.
A quick search found this post from Hitech (https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,190347.msg2212694.html#msg2212694)
See and that's where their analytics failed them. The current customer base, happy with the large #s in one arena had a much better time during off hours with high #s where they could find good fights late into the night. As the #s got lower in each arena the fights became less fun and the current players left. The huge maps made fights sparse in the off hours and players had trouble finding action. Whatever new players came in would only be an equalizer to the ones who left bored of no action. Their models weren't predicting this apparently...
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See and that's where their analytics failed them. The current customer base, happy with the large #s in one arena had a much better time during off hours with high #s where they could find good fights late into the night. As the #s got lower in each arena the fights became less fun and the current players left. The huge maps made fights sparse in the off hours and players had trouble finding action. Whatever new players came in would only be an equalizer to the ones who left bored of no action. Their models weren't predicting this apparently...
You cant compare today with 20 years ago, nor could the management even remotely predict how things would change in 20 years. Today we barely make critical mass in the MAs let alone have a large enough population to have a good social group. Cross communications are off due to too many bullies, there can hardly be the same type of community that we had 20 years ago.
"Fights got less fun".... LOL!!! Again, you have to realize that the majority of players have fun bombing, ground vehicles, and taking bases and so on. They were, and ARE having fun. If they left the best you could do was 20 players prime time.
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Yeah I just think when you had a standard of 250 in the off hours and that dropped to 150 due to the double arenas, that effected the action of the gameplay and caused more to leave in a chain reaction. And not changing the maps to benefit a smaller threshold of players also had an impact. No one wants to drive away the tanker, bomber, jabo player base, but it did seem like the majority of the fighter base was driven off thus leaving those types of players left mostly. All I'm saying is that reading what hitech says it makes it seem like he wanted to grow the game by making it smaller, in order to not "ruin the community" aspect. Even though it was inevitable that a change in online gamers was coming. And leaving the arena with more players provided better fights for global players outside of US primetime and thus kept fight larger for most players. Once these fights dried up, the euro and Asian players could not find enough action.
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Yeah I never could figure out the idea behind the split. Maybe we were approaching the limits the system could bear with the numbers at that time? Only thing I could come up with. You'd think it'd be a "more the merrier" thing. There was, of course, an un-split that happened as the numbers dropped.
The numbers drop didn't come from any single reason, tho those that are still living in 2010 would certainly disagree. The internet and more specifically internet gaming is a totally different universe now than it was then. Sooo many more choices of games. Sooo many different genres of games. Sooo many new games to try. People will generally go for shiny new stuff. That's nothing new. AH, while we all know it to be a great game, is neither new or shiny. It just hasn't kept up and IMO that's what is killing it more than anything else.
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Ya know, I tried not to believe you in our last convo, but even if we disagree on the whys, everyone will, the fact your insight seems to be correct is a sour reality. It's not hard to imagine that threads like this and a cpl others when the game is not shinny and new has had it's own major impact, that's why it's done, that's my reality you may encompass... and allowing it has changed my attitude 180.
It didn't have to be this way. Efforts could have been made.
Everyone handles things differently in life. Lost my GF to murder in 87. In the last 10 yrs I lost my wife, son, older brother, parents, my last GF about to lose a sister to cancer, all my closest friends, some things I can't even list here. Very few could withstand one of them without one n the chamber, I've had MANY. I've been through so much personal hell in my life but I still have the fire and ambition. I refuse to be defeated like a wet rag doll. I'll never ever throw in ANY towel. I'm conditioned to coping. Some just fold into lethargic trances and watch their life tick away. I'm not one of them. SO I find it hard to understand why others can't overcome things the same way. If I can do it, anyone can do it. I'm not wearing their shoes, nor they mine.
The dogfighting genre has lost it's way to pretty graphics. When this game dies, MAs, furballs and scenarios with real humans will be gone forever., this too will pass in time.It's a rotten shame to watch some relish in joy to push the king over the cliff thinking they will benefit. These are vexations in life everyone should avoid, for every reason. I don't feel bad for them I feel bad for their spirit that is tainted.
ANYWAY, It's not that I didn't trust your words, We've known of each other for decades, but what I see going on, it nailed it home.
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There's plenty of fun in the evening btwn 8 and 10 est
I get my hour of ah addiction then
I don't need 5 to 10 hours of it a day like some of our favorite yt posters seem to lol
Eagler