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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: MDStampf93 on October 23, 2024, 08:26:35 AM

Title: In case there was any confusion…
Post by: MDStampf93 on October 23, 2024, 08:26:35 AM
It is possible to fight in the MA without HOing everything, every single pass… just saying.

That is all.

 :salute
Title: Re: In case there was any confusion…
Post by: The Fugitive on October 23, 2024, 09:19:59 AM
It is possible to fight in the MA without HOing everything, every single pass… just saying.

That is all.

 :salute

Nope.
Title: Re: In case there was any confusion…
Post by: Animl-AW on October 23, 2024, 09:29:42 AM
It is possible to fight in the MA without HOing everything, every single pass… just saying.

That is all.

 :salute

I’v been sayin since my return it’s #1 ACM with some, epidemic.

Rarely do I not get HO/Ram.  Ya have to maneuver around any nose to nose merge. Nose down build E loop up and over on their 6 as soon as they pass.
Title: Re: In case there was any confusion…
Post by: DmonSlyr on October 23, 2024, 10:36:31 AM
Just do a zigzag pattern as you are moving toward them and cross under their nose as you pull up into an immelman, you'll always have the advantage generally if they try to HO because you got the jump on the angle.
Title: Re: In case there was any confusion…
Post by: DFATITAN on October 23, 2024, 11:49:48 AM
For a long time, I never HO'd and it seemed like a lot of others didn't either. We'd pass each other and then take whatever ACM was appropriate (mine usually ended in "you chose poorly").  I do my best to avoid them, but I feel it's the default anymore.  I fly a Mossie most times so if it looks like I've got a HO'er, I'm more than happy to oblige.

Didn't AW have a no-HO setting in one of the arenas?
Title: Re: In case there was any confusion…
Post by: Shuffler on October 23, 2024, 12:28:47 PM
Time for a ho down..... grab your partner swing her around....
Title: Re: In case there was any confusion…
Post by: FGBullet on October 23, 2024, 05:28:59 PM
I try not to Ho on first pass but seem to have lead flying my way about 80% of the time. Been Hoed so much I'm considering getting a pimp.  :bolt:
Title: Re: In case there was any confusion…
Post by: Animl-AW on October 23, 2024, 05:48:50 PM
For a long time, I never HO'd and it seemed like a lot of others didn't either. We'd pass each other and then take whatever ACM was appropriate (mine usually ended in "you chose poorly").  I do my best to avoid them, but I feel it's the default anymore.  I fly a Mossie most times so if it looks like I've got a HO'er, I'm more than happy to oblige.

Didn't AW have a no-HO setting in one of the arenas?

I don’t recall AW having an anti HO setting, but someone may remember one.

In AW is was just an unwritten rule to NOT HO and was considered shameful, the baby seal tards. They did happen but nowhere near as much as AH.


One country here is common to be 20k and HOing.

YKW HOed a LOT.

Here soon as I see a Typh, 109 or Mossie I just assume I’m going to get HOed
Title: Re: In case there was any confusion…
Post by: Oldman731 on October 23, 2024, 07:55:08 PM
I don’t recall AW having an anti HO setting, but someone may remember one.

In AW is was just an unwritten rule to NOT HO and was considered shameful, the baby seal tards. They did happen but nowhere near as much as AH.


Someone with a better memory than mine will provide the actual explanation.  My recollection is that, for a variety of programming issues, HO shots didn't work most of the time, and were random the rest of the time.  So if you connected on a HO, it was blind luck.  Hence the stigma of taking a shot just on the chance that it might work.

You'll also remember that you could fly right through the enemy aeroplane, with no collision problems.  There were a number of AW people who had worked this out to a formula, and they were not pleased when it didn't happen in AH.

- oldman
Title: Re: In case there was any confusion…
Post by: guncrasher on October 23, 2024, 08:44:37 PM

Someone with a better memory than mine will provide the actual explanation.  My recollection is that, for a variety of programming issues, HO shots didn't work most of the time, and were random the rest of the time.  So if you connected on a HO, it was blind luck.  Hence the stigma of taking a shot just on the chance that it might work.

You'll also remember that you could fly right through the enemy aeroplane, with no collision problems.  There were a number of AW people who had worked this out to a formula, and they were not pleased when it didn't happen in AH.

- oldman



to many years ago but one of the aw guys said something like an RNG for a ho shot.   hitech might know more about that.


semp
Title: Re: In case there was any confusion…
Post by: The Fugitive on October 23, 2024, 09:10:26 PM
I don’t recall AW having an anti HO setting, but someone may remember one.

In AW is was just an unwritten rule to NOT HO and was considered shameful, the baby seal tards. They did happen but nowhere near as much as AH.


One country here is common to be 20k and HOing.

YKW HOed a LOT.

Here soon as I see a Typh, 109 or Mossie I just assume I’m going to get HOed

I think there was something with the hit bubble that canceled HO but the cone was pretty small so some did try to get that magic bullet.

The difference I think was any who took HO shots in AW were ridiculed to death and the embarrassment was enough to teach them it wasnt a cool thing to do.



to many years ago but one of the aw guys said something like an RNG for a ho shot.   hitech might know more about that.


semp

What is an RNG?
Title: Re: In case there was any confusion…
Post by: Lusche on October 23, 2024, 09:14:18 PM
hat is an RNG?

Randomizer ("Random Number Generator")
Title: Re: In case there was any confusion…
Post by: Animl-AW on October 23, 2024, 11:02:08 PM
I think there was something with the hit bubble that canceled HO but the cone was pretty small so some did try to get that magic bullet.

The difference I think was any who took HO shots in AW were ridiculed to death and the embarrassment was enough to teach them it wasnt a cool thing to do.

What is an RNG?

As mentioned several times,…I actually worked on the hit bubble, then converting to surface strikes. Damage model was one of my big things working for Kesmai/AW.  I probably got deeper into it than most. I spent obsessive amount of time getting realism out of it. Finally got there, RR begged for it then didn’t like realism, FR begged for it and loved it. Pretty sure I had dreams about the coding lol

The hit bubble worked on a randomizer. The strikes closer to center randomized a different set of damage. In other words how many strikes you made the more intense it randomized your damage, center was pretty much instant kill. The strike number went to a different part of the table container.   So it was very hard to regulate HOs. I don’t recall being able to distinguish front or rear strikes in the hit bubble. Moving onto the surface strike damage model it was easier to disregard HOs, but in my work, was not done. I think i stant kill was the same damage option for HO. I think if I canceled HO it took out instant kill option on other shots.

It was big discussion often. But you are correct, you’d be shamed into the abyss, but few did it anyway, and shamed. In FR it was even more harsh.
Title: Re: In case there was any confusion…
Post by: Animl-AW on October 23, 2024, 11:30:30 PM


to many years ago but one of the aw guys said something like an RNG for a ho shot.   hitech might know more about that.


semp

I don’t think HT was interested in the hit bubble. Not sure what or if he had clearance,.., but if I recall, HT invented the gun cam for AW.

HT was so good he made those inside nervous to give him access to the core coding. For what ever reason, bringing HT in didn’t work out. Be glad of that, he and pyro went off and made this. Actually a better game.

Memory is slippin into darkness
Title: Re: In case there was any confusion…
Post by: Animl-AW on October 23, 2024, 11:43:51 PM

Someone with a better memory than mine will provide the actual explanation.  My recollection is that, for a variety of programming issues, HO shots didn't work most of the time, and were random the rest of the time.  So if you connected on a HO, it was blind luck.  Hence the stigma of taking a shot just on the chance that it might work.

You'll also remember that you could fly right through the enemy aeroplane, with no collision problems.  There were a number of AW people who had worked this out to a formula, and they were not pleased when it didn't happen in AH.

- oldman

Yes, thats pretty close to how it worked. When I got my hands on the damage model I could tell not a lot of thought was put into it. Kinda generic settings.
Title: Re: In case there was any confusion…
Post by: Eagler on October 24, 2024, 07:27:59 AM
Find it strange to think that some think that you should be able to fly nose to nose and not expect a shot at you..

I usually find if I don't take a shot, they do..

And if I  do and sometimes even if they'd do too I  get a hoing whine..

Wasn't it a valid shot in ww2?

Why the whine here?

If you don't want to ho you just have to try to avoid it as described above

If you're in a more agile plane or have the numbers please expect any shot from any angle from me...especially if I have gondolas slowing me down :airplane: ...except in MNM  :joystick:

Eagler
Title: Re: In case there was any confusion…
Post by: LilMak on October 24, 2024, 08:22:31 AM
I don’t think HO in and of itself is the main issue so much as HOing and extending repeatedly. The HO shot is generally pretty easy to avoid but it gets really stale to just continually avoid repeated attempts because an adversary lacks or chooses not to use any other tools. What usually happens to me is I end up in a never ending logic loop until one of three things happens.

1- I oblige the HO by returning fire out of boredom.
2- I try some maneuver that I know has a low probability of success and usually pay for it.
3- Someone else (friend or foe) comes along and breaks the cycle.

I understand we all want to win engagements (many by any means necessary) but the engagement is actually the fun. Winning is secondary.

I reiterate this all the time…
Ask yourself as you’re playing, “If everyone did this all the time would the game be any fun?” If the answer is “No.” you should probably try and change things up.
Title: Re: In case there was any confusion…
Post by: icepac on October 24, 2024, 08:31:28 AM

Guys used to nose down 2k out like going under you, induce lag, and pull up. 

What you see on your end is a plane passing under you and then you hear bullets after he passed.
Title: Re: In case there was any confusion…
Post by: Oldman731 on October 24, 2024, 10:43:11 AM
I understand we all want to win engagements (many by any means necessary) but the engagement is actually the fun. Winning is secondary.


Heartily agree.

- oldman
Title: Re: In case there was any confusion…
Post by: Shane on October 24, 2024, 10:48:22 AM
I reiterate this all the time…
Ask yourself as you’re playing, “If everyone did this all the time would the game be any fun?” If the answer is “No.” you should probably try and change things up.


And yet... here we are.
Title: Re: In case there was any confusion…
Post by: Animl-AW on October 24, 2024, 11:01:32 AM
Guys used to nose down 2k out like going under you, induce lag, and pull up. 

What you see on your end is a plane passing under you and then you hear bullets after he passed.

True. However if you used the nose down shortly to build speed, go under, minimize loss of E at the top of the loop you can regain enough speed on the decent to end up on their 6. Just stay inverted at the top to track him.  Works more often than not. Forget what the maneuver is called. Been using it a long time.

What I don’t care for in these HOs is players actually flipping around to take it. Its deliberate. I remember a few who every kill they got on me was HOs over and over.

Its a players choice to engage or  pull out of the nose to nose.

Main point, HOs are over-used IMO. <shrug>
Title: Re: In case there was any confusion…
Post by: oTRALFZo on October 24, 2024, 11:26:05 AM
I will HO any jet or bomber without mercy or remorse.
Sorry thats just me
Title: Re: In case there was any confusion…
Post by: Animl-AW on October 24, 2024, 02:18:59 PM
I will HO any jet or bomber without mercy or remorse.
Sorry thats just me

HA! totally get that one.
Title: Re: In case there was any confusion…
Post by: MDStampf93 on October 24, 2024, 02:27:33 PM
I don’t think HO in and of itself is the main issue so much as HOing and extending repeatedly. The HO shot is generally pretty easy to avoid but it gets really stale to just continually avoid repeated attempts because an adversary lacks or chooses not to use any other tools.


 :aok
Title: Re: In case there was any confusion…
Post by: RELIC on October 24, 2024, 06:08:05 PM
Seems a bit worse now than it was a few years ago.  I think there was a certain player who flew 30 mm birds who would rarely miss and pretty much thrived on front quarter/HO shots.  Not sure if that has had an effect but here we are.  Could simply be this is a new players best chance at killing someone.
I always assume there will be an HO.  I used to try and avoid them but have been guilty of it too depending on the situation.
Title: Re: In case there was any confusion…
Post by: Dadtallica on October 24, 2024, 07:58:25 PM


And yet... here we are.

You’re all doing it all wrong!

This thread could have been made 25 years ago and nobody would have known the difference!
Title: Re: In case there was any confusion…
Post by: diaster on October 27, 2024, 09:28:30 PM
I’v been sayin since my return it’s #1 ACM with some, epidemic.

Rarely do I not get HO/Ram.  Ya have to maneuver around any nose to nose merge. Nose down build E loop up and over on their 6 as soon as they pass.
\
all good and well cept when u are multiple vs you and any deviation opens you up and they all choose to "ho" anyway
Title: Re: In case there was any confusion…
Post by: Animl-AW on October 28, 2024, 07:19:36 AM
\
all good and well cept when u are multiple vs you and any deviation opens you up and they all choose to "ho" anyway

Totally get that too. I often end up in 4-5 to 1. Happens more often when its rooks. 5-1 every single one tried HO more than once,… of course I died by. I don’t like fighting rooks because its most rampant there. Its not by chance, they intensionally turn into it. These are not noobs.

I don’t <S> HOs.
Title: Re: In case there was any confusion…
Post by: waystin2 on October 28, 2024, 11:51:56 AM
High angle yes!  Head-on no way! It is a death wish with any .50 cal or cannon equipped bird facing you. :aok
Title: Re: In case there was any confusion…
Post by: icepac on October 28, 2024, 05:41:46 PM

Fly a plane with 21cm rockets and shoot HO from D2.5

Title: Re: In case there was any confusion…
Post by: captain1ma on October 28, 2024, 06:30:51 PM
oh stampf, you've been playing too much Monday Night Madness, where everyone is mostly civilized!! LOL!!
Title: Re: In case there was any confusion…
Post by: Shuffler on October 29, 2024, 09:52:31 AM
oh stampf, you've been playing too much Monday Night Madness, where everyone is mostly civilized!! LOL!!

LOL This!
Title: Re: In case there was any confusion…
Post by: MDStampf93 on October 29, 2024, 10:35:56 AM
oh stampf, you've been playing too much Monday Night Madness, where everyone is mostly civilized!! LOL!!

We MNM fighters are spoiled  :aok