Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Eagler on February 05, 2025, 06:34:25 PM

Title: What happened to the 4000 series vcards?
Post by: Eagler on February 05, 2025, 06:34:25 PM
Prices crazy if you can find one..

Is it the stupid crazy crypto prices turning everyone into miners again?

Eagler
Title: Re: What happened to the 4000 series vcards?
Post by: icepac on February 05, 2025, 08:10:38 PM
AsRock steel legend b580?
Title: Re: What happened to the 4000 series vcards?
Post by: Busher on February 05, 2025, 08:29:51 PM
they are not made in the USA.
Title: Re: What happened to the 4000 series vcards?
Post by: Eagler on February 06, 2025, 07:30:11 AM
Shouldn't the 5000 series be out now?

Eagler
Title: Re: What happened to the 4000 series vcards?
Post by: Spikes on February 06, 2025, 08:04:21 AM
If by out you mean sold out and scalped, then yes.
Title: Re: What happened to the 4000 series vcards?
Post by: Meatwad on February 06, 2025, 12:47:11 PM
To me crypto currency is nothing more than a get rich quick scam involving using video cards to conger up pretend money out of thin air
Title: Re: What happened to the 4000 series vcards?
Post by: AKIron on February 06, 2025, 06:31:12 PM
The 5070 which is supposed to be available this month for $579 I think is touted by Nvidia as being as fast as a 4090. We'll see. Of course I wouldn't expect to get one at the initial MSRP for months or years.
Title: Re: What happened to the 4000 series vcards?
Post by: Brooke on February 08, 2025, 06:39:49 PM
Graphics-card prices are insane right now.  Including 4000 series.  Including parts even of 3000 series.

Like $1300 for a 4070 Ti Super.  That is laughable.  I would refuse to buy at those levels just out of moral outrage.  :aok

Graphics-card pricing has been insane for many periods during the past 5 years or so.  Covid broke the world's competency and supply lines.

Helped by Bitcoin mining insanity, then maybe a bunch of folks thinking they want cards to run AI, so way overpaying for stuff they probably won't use.  Or gaming folks who are OK way overpaying.  Or a speculative bubble of scalpers buying up all supply.

It's nuts.
Title: Re: What happened to the 4000 series vcards?
Post by: Eagler on February 09, 2025, 07:45:27 AM
Thought paying $829 back in August for my 4070 ti super was crazy...

Tariffs not affecting prices or availability?

Heard 16GB of vram is needed to push a local copy of the China ai, that and insane value of crypto has dried up inventory it seems

Eagler
Title: Re: What happened to the 4000 series vcards?
Post by: xanax on February 09, 2025, 08:18:07 AM
Thought paying $829 back in August for my 4070 ti super was crazy...

Tariffs not affecting prices or availability?

Heard 16GB of vram is needed to push a local copy of the China ai, that and insane value of crypto has dried up inventory it seems

Eagler

Maybe Nvidia is artificially keeping the supply of 5000 series cards low in order to dry up the remaining 4000 series cards out there and force everyone into the 5000 series when they are gone. This theory along with the crypto crap and general FOMO and hype Nvidia has cultivated the last 5 years is really frustrating. I finally talked my buddy into a gaming PC to play AH and other games we Mac guys can't play but finding something capable is getting cost prohibitive-especially for the high end, popular crap games he wants to play besides AH.
Title: Re: What happened to the 4000 series vcards?
Post by: Brooke on February 09, 2025, 01:45:12 PM
Tariffs not affecting prices or availability?

Tariffs are 10% and are part of it.  But gpu prices are up way more than that.

I think it's limited supply plus fomo, ai, bitcoin, vr, games in general, and a customer base that seemingly is OK buying graphics cards for $1500+.
Title: Re: What happened to the 4000 series vcards?
Post by: Mayhem on February 12, 2025, 11:28:00 AM
The 5070 which is supposed to be available this month for $579 I think is touted by Nvidia as being as fast as a 4090. We'll see. Of course I wouldn't expect to get one at the initial MSRP for months or years.

Benchmark test is showing that the RTX4090 can outperform the RTX5080 (And even the 5090 in a few cases) so I don't think the 5070 is going to beet the 4090 unless Nvidia really works out the bugs. However the 50x0 serries cards are not showing very good gen on gen performance gains and Nvidia is trying to fool every one with frame generation.

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/gpus/nvidia-geforce-rtx-5080-review

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/gpus/nvidia-geforce-rtx-5090-review

Maybe Nvidia is artificially keeping the supply of 5000 series cards low in order to dry up the remaining 4000 series cards out there and force everyone into the 5000 series when they are gone. This theory along with the crypto crap and general FOMO and hype Nvidia has cultivated the last 5 years is really frustrating. I finally talked my buddy into a gaming PC to play AH and other games we Mac guys can't play but finding something capable is getting cost prohibitive-especially for the high end, popular crap games he wants to play besides AH.

Nvidia has been burned on last gen cards competing with current gen cards (20x0 geting passed over for 10x0 cards). Nvidia has also been known to deliberately hobble production to artificially inflate prices. Nvidia did it with the 30X0 and 40X0 gen cards.

https://www.mooreslawisdead.com/post/nvidia-halts-ampere-production-to-keep-pricing-high
Title: Re: What happened to the 4000 series vcards?
Post by: AKIron on February 12, 2025, 12:17:20 PM
Apparently Nvidia was less than truthful about the performance of their new gen cards. They'll still sell all they can make.

I'll save my allowance and buy one eventually.
Title: Re: What happened to the 4000 series vcards?
Post by: AKIron on February 12, 2025, 01:52:37 PM
We're building a new machine for my brother next week. He's moving the 4090 over from the old and putting the orig 3070 back in it. Oughta be a screamer. Ryzen 7 9800X3D, gen5 ssd, fast memory. Hope he can handle that and not get hurt. ;)
Title: Re: What happened to the 4000 series vcards?
Post by: Mayhem on February 19, 2025, 03:32:41 PM
Ya it looks like Nvidia's RTX5000 series is a wash 

:frown:
https://youtu.be/PhtVic3Vm0Y

:mad:
https://youtu.be/x6EOIol6RIs

:cry
https://youtu.be/zhSA5LYA8XU

:angry:
https://youtu.be/NnhU2ZvHb10
Title: Re: What happened to the 4000 series vcards?
Post by: LCADolby on February 19, 2025, 04:43:31 PM
I got my 4080 in 2023, it appears I got lucky for a change
Title: Re: What happened to the 4000 series vcards?
Post by: Gman on February 19, 2025, 05:09:02 PM
My 5080/9800x3d system performs very, very similarly to my 4090 system with an overclocked 14600k.  Still on the wait list for a 5090, so we'll see how that is when it becomes available. 

Title: Re: What happened to the 4000 series vcards?
Post by: mechanic on February 19, 2025, 06:50:17 PM
What is even more alarming than the price and insane turn around between 30/40/50 series releases is the abysmal build quality. Anyone who doesn't know how to open and re-thermal paste a GPU better learn now. The factory shipped paste jobs are incredibly inconsistent. The average consumer just assumes the card is broken and has to go through the hassle of attempting to get a replacement. In reality a 20 minute proper pasting job will solve this. Also many problems with the heat pads that protect the memory.

The reality currently is that GPU are 5 times the price they are worth and have been manufactured with 5 times less attention than they deserve, especially when it costs so much to buy. The silicon giants do not give one solitary fark about any of us.
Title: Re: What happened to the 4000 series vcards?
Post by: Brooke on February 20, 2025, 01:18:55 AM
The silicon giants do not give one solitary fark about any of us.

If there were decent competition in graphics cards, it would solve the issue.

But to me, it looks like both AMD and nVidia are ridiculously priced and out of supply.

I suppose it could be just that demand is persistently high with persistently little price sensitivity.

But I get suspicious of purposeful supply restriction by colluding businesses.
Title: Re: What happened to the 4000 series vcards?
Post by: Eagler on February 20, 2025, 06:17:33 AM
When they realized that $500 was cheap and that we so addicted we would pay > $1000 for a video card..it was all over but the crying...

We created this monster..

Eagler
Title: Re: What happened to the 4000 series vcards?
Post by: Mayhem on February 21, 2025, 01:37:59 PM
More bad news and more reasons to avoid the RTX 50x0 cards specially the RTX5090

"Some RTX 5090s are shipping with missing ROP units, leading to less gaming performance"

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/gpus/some-rtx-5090s-are-shipping-with-missing-rop-units-leading-to-less-gaming-performance-report
Title: Re: What happened to the 4000 series vcards?
Post by: AKIron on February 22, 2025, 08:14:36 AM
When they realized that $500 was cheap and that we so addicted we would pay > $1000 for a video card..it was all over but the crying...

We created this monster..

Eagler

The advanced cards are very powerful and expensive to make. You can still buy a cheap card without that reproducing reality performance though. If there is demand they will build it.
Title: Re: What happened to the 4000 series vcards?
Post by: Drano on February 22, 2025, 11:42:26 AM
Mine is a 3080 12gb Strix overclock. I got it to make my current PC all same gen with a 5800x3d. It's waaaay overkill for AH so anyone looking for a card JUST to play AH might consider a lower tier card. I haven't even logged into IL-2 in a while but I'd get around 65fps in that one with stuff fairly max'd out. My latest jam is MSFS which is far more demanding with graphics especially in VR. I fight to stay in the 40s in VR with that one. And I'm in VR almost all the time now. Can't go back to a monitor flying now.

While I'd like to upgrade to a 40 or 50 series card, not only are they crazy expensive--that whole cable melting thing has me really turned off. I thought it was a bad idea the first time I saw it and once the 40 series ones started melting I was like--uh huh--saw that coming. It's simple physics! There's a reason the wires in your house are the gauge they are--so that your house doesn't burn down! Those rules are kinda universal in electricity and these guys were just trying to come up with a more stylish power cord. That didn't work. But did that stop them from putting basically the same under-rated cord on the 50 series cards that pull about 100 amps more than the 40s that melted? Nah! I'm interested to see how that whole thing plays out. I watch a couple of YT video card repair guys that say they were getting the 40 series melteds in every week. I don't buy the "user error" excuse. If it's that easy to screw up, it should be designed better to rule that out if it's happening this much.

There's that and the thing Mayhem is talking about with the missing ROPs. How in the heck does that even happen? Talk about bad QC!
Title: Re: What happened to the 4000 series vcards?
Post by: AKIron on February 22, 2025, 01:01:29 PM
Nvidia is saying about .5% of the cards have some failed ROPs. That's 1 in 200 cards but yeah, too many. They still work just at maybe 10% slower speeds. I'd rather get one that doesn't work at all. I have two 3070s (in 2 machines) and probably won't upgrade until both give up the ghost. I don't do VR and they are fine.
Title: Re: What happened to the 4000 series vcards?
Post by: Eagler on February 22, 2025, 01:24:36 PM
The advanced cards are very powerful and expensive to make. You can still buy a cheap card without that reproducing reality performance though. If there is demand they will build it.

Cheap? What just $300 for a "cheap" video card that can push games today at best medium graphics?

$300 isn't cheap to most folks

By the time the average Joe pays it off his credit card you can add another 15% at least to the cost

Eagler
Title: Re: What happened to the 4000 series vcards?
Post by: AKIron on February 22, 2025, 04:24:29 PM
You can buy video cards for less than that. Of course the key there is current video games. You want more power you're gonna pay more. Why should ever increasing performance remain the same price?

(https://i.postimg.cc/4YTdR77b/video.png) (https://postimg.cc/4YTdR77b)
Title: Re: What happened to the 4000 series vcards?
Post by: AKIron on February 22, 2025, 11:33:29 PM
Don't get me wrong Eagler. As technology improves our electronics, and that is the heart of todays technology, I too would like to enjoy that benefit without a bigger bite of my budget. The reality is that feelings don't matter to facts.
Title: Re: What happened to the 4000 series vcards?
Post by: AKIron on February 24, 2025, 11:20:38 AM
The 5080s have failed ROPs too. This lack of quality control could have a big impact on Nvidia. If they don't get that definitively resolved quickly it may cost them bigly.
Title: Re: What happened to the 4000 series vcards?
Post by: hazmatt on February 24, 2025, 11:25:29 AM
Something definitely seems to be going on.

The 4070 super now costs more then it did when I bought my a year ago. (if you can find one)

It looks like the new AMD cards will barely reach the same same level of performance as the 4070 super and will most likely cost more.

I'm still running an over 8 year old 1080 TI on my backup rig that I would really like to replace but most of the "budget" cards that are $500 and less don't seem to have much of a performance increase if they have any at all. To me it makes no sense that $500 would give me the same performance as a card that's getting close to 10 years old.
Title: Re: What happened to the 4000 series vcards?
Post by: icepac on February 24, 2025, 12:24:11 PM

How much power are guys who play all day consuming?
Title: Re: What happened to the 4000 series vcards?
Post by: Eagler on February 24, 2025, 12:32:34 PM
How much power are guys who play all day consuming?

This time of year it helps with their heating bills lol

My box runs about an hour a day from 8 to 9pm est

Eagler
Title: Re: What happened to the 4000 series vcards?
Post by: hazmatt on February 24, 2025, 12:35:27 PM
I asked AI and it said these were the costs at average cost for 8 hours of gaming:
System 1 (i3-12100 + GTX 1080 Ti)   310W   2.48 kWh           $0.41
System 2 (i7-12700 + RTX 4070 Super)   341W   2.728 kWh   $0.45
Title: Re: What happened to the 4000 series vcards?
Post by: icepac on February 25, 2025, 03:17:42 PM
Ordered a new kill-a-watt to check mine to see if it follows the predictions of power usage.   

I don't see figures for Memory, disk or SSD, motherboard, monitor,  fans....etc.  in projecting total system power usage.   

I have a M4A785 motherboard/amd phenom X2, two 7200jb hard drives, and an ATI HD5770 card.    I will compare real life to the numbers predicted by the websites.
Title: Re: What happened to the 4000 series vcards?
Post by: Meatwad on February 25, 2025, 05:33:14 PM
I asked AI and it said these were the costs at average cost for 8 hours of gaming:
System 1 (i3-12100 + GTX 1080 Ti)   310W   2.48 kWh           $0.41
System 2 (i7-12700 + RTX 4070 Super)   341W   2.728 kWh   $0.45

That seems pretty low, would think it would be higher then that. Also dont think the listed rates are even remotely accurate, power cost is a lot higher for some people especially in ameren territory. they are outrageously high on price per kilowatt.

Edit - I have one of these to monitor real time electric usage in the house

https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/products/emporia-vue-3
Title: Re: What happened to the 4000 series vcards?
Post by: hazmatt on February 25, 2025, 07:46:04 PM
Ordered a new kill-a-watt to check mine to see if it follows the predictions of power usage.   

I don't see figures for Memory, disk or SSD, motherboard, monitor,  fans....etc.  in projecting total system power usage.   

I have a M4A785 motherboard/amd phenom X2, two 7200jb hard drives, and an ATI HD5770 card.    I will compare real life to the numbers predicted by the websites.
Didn't think about that. I should find my meter and test it. No telling where it is with kids around.
Title: Re: What happened to the 4000 series vcards?
Post by: hazmatt on February 25, 2025, 07:47:15 PM
That seems pretty low, would think it would be higher then that. Also dont think the listed rates are even remotely accurate, power cost is a lot higher for some people especially in ameren territory. they are outrageously high on price per kilowatt.

Edit - I have one of these to monitor real time electric usage in the house

https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/products/emporia-vue-3
I suspect you are right. I'm "shocked" every time I get my electric bill.
Title: Re: What happened to the 4000 series vcards?
Post by: icepac on February 26, 2025, 03:23:26 AM
That emporia stuff is cool.   

It makes me realize that i need something similar for water.
Title: Re: What happened to the 4000 series vcards?
Post by: Mayhem on February 26, 2025, 12:31:32 PM
Current List of Issues with RTX50x0 Graphics Cards. (note mine was a rando post on YouTube.)

1. Stock shortage (at launch and beyond)
2. Fake MSRP
3. Fake frames
4. Melted cables
5. Burned cards
6. Bad drivers /blackout screens.
7. Small VRAM
8. Dropped support for PhysX
9. Minimal performance increase from previous generation or worse..
10. $2000+ to risk burning your house down..
11. Missing fuses & ROPS.
Title: Re: What happened to the 4000 series vcards?
Post by: icepac on February 26, 2025, 01:05:49 PM
Researching Asrock Z690 Steel Legend motherboard with Asrock steel legend B580 graphics card. 

At least it would look cool in all white.