Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Maverick on March 13, 2025, 10:18:00 AM

Title: New info on mid air crash at Avra valley airport / Marana airpark AZ
Post by: Maverick on March 13, 2025, 10:18:00 AM
A few weeks ago a mid air between a Cessna and a Lancair happened at the airport. CAVU conditions at the time. Neither plane was based there. The Lancair went down near the runway and the 2 inside died. The Cessna landed safely and both occupants were uninjured.

The field is uncontrolled and gets use from the locals as well as a commercial Airline Pilot training school in Phx, mostly at night. There was a parachute operation there when I had my plane there in the late 90's and early 2000's.

I've had a similar situation happen twice when I was flying. One of the parachute planes cut me off in the pattern and a Cessna pulled out onto the active when I was on short final in my Comanche. IMO this place is overdue for a tower.

https://www.azfamily.com/2025/03/12/witness-pilots-were-yelling-each-other-before-fatal-mid-air-crash-marana/
Title: Re: New info on mid air crash at Avra valley airport / Marana airpark AZ
Post by: Baloo on March 13, 2025, 11:03:12 AM
Pretty wild, you'd think something like this would occur back when flying was the wild wild west...apparently it still is at this airport  :rofl :cheers:  :salute
Title: Re: New info on mid air crash at Avra valley airport / Marana airpark AZ
Post by: Busher on March 13, 2025, 11:27:02 AM
I agree that a Control Tower might have helped to prevent this accident. But courteous pilots using proper Unicon procedures can often organize traffic as well as ATC can... so did this GA airport have a mandatory Unicom; published traffic patterns; a normally significant number os airplanes in the pattern?

I retired from flying in 2010 so forgive the questions - things change - but with the fiscal trend, I suspect there are no "bucks" for new controlled GA airports.
Title: Re: New info on mid air crash at Avra valley airport / Marana airpark AZ
Post by: icepac on March 13, 2025, 11:46:44 AM

Pilots misbehave often at uncontrolled fields.   

I operated the unicom while working for dulles aviation at W10 (manassas) and saw behavior that would never occur at a controlled airfield.
Title: Re: New info on mid air crash at Avra valley airport / Marana airpark AZ
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 13, 2025, 02:36:43 PM
There were no CCTV or any cameras at the airport?

So the way I'm reading it. The Lancair cut off the Cessna and then the Ceasna clipped the lancairs tail with the prop as they were both trying to land?
Title: Re: New info on mid air crash at Avra valley airport / Marana airpark AZ
Post by: AKIron on March 13, 2025, 03:56:43 PM
My first solo was in a Piper Tomahawk at the Clovis NM airport in '79. As I was taking off a plane dropped a few parachutists near the end of the runway. The instructor later seemed impressed I went around them. What did he think I would do, run over them?
Title: Re: New info on mid air crash at Avra valley airport / Marana airpark AZ
Post by: Busher on March 13, 2025, 04:10:42 PM
My first solo was in a Piper Tomahawk at the Clovis NM airport in '79. As I was taking off a plane dropped a few parachutists near the end of the runway. The instructor later seemed impressed I went around them. What did he think I would do, run over them?

Maybe they were immigrants so that's what surprised him. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: New info on mid air crash at Avra valley airport / Marana airpark AZ
Post by: AKIron on March 13, 2025, 04:44:55 PM
Maybe they were immigrants so that's what surprised him. :rolleyes:

That's both political and disrespectful to me but I'll let it slide. Of course if a moderator decides to take some points from ya don't blame me.
Title: Re: New info on mid air crash at Avra valley airport / Marana airpark AZ
Post by: Busher on March 13, 2025, 05:22:12 PM
That's both political and disrespectful to me but I'll let it slide.

That's so surprising that you actually picked up on the intent.
Title: Re: New info on mid air crash at Avra valley airport / Marana airpark AZ
Post by: AKIron on March 13, 2025, 05:28:09 PM
I respected the rule changes here made many years ago banning politics and etc... but am now wondering if moderators patrol the boards on the alert for rule violations or if reports must be made before points are assessed. Anyone? If it is a rule violation asking or answering such a question I humbly accept due punishment.

(My suspicion is that moderators are free to act either way. Pronounce with a hard E please)
Title: Re: New info on mid air crash at Avra valley airport / Marana airpark AZ
Post by: AKIron on March 13, 2025, 05:28:41 PM
That's so surprising that you actually picked up on the intent.

Also disrespectful. Do you not care for rules?
Title: Re: New info on mid air crash at Avra valley airport / Marana airpark AZ
Post by: Busher on March 13, 2025, 06:12:34 PM
Also disrespectful. Do you not care for rules?

After the years of politically biased Bull***t ( most often esxpressing admiration of some blonde dude)  I have seen in this forum I think you might admit that disrespect for others is running rampant and not limited to this micro community.
Title: Re: New info on mid air crash at Avra valley airport / Marana airpark AZ
Post by: AKIron on March 13, 2025, 06:34:04 PM
Wanting to engage with those with whom you disagree is natural for most of us. I didn't make the rules and don't enforce them.
Title: Re: New info on mid air crash at Avra valley airport / Marana airpark AZ
Post by: Meatwad on March 13, 2025, 06:37:26 PM
Seems posts are fine until a crybaby reports them after their feelings are hurted
Title: Re: New info on mid air crash at Avra valley airport / Marana airpark AZ
Post by: Oldman731 on March 13, 2025, 08:03:19 PM
Wanting to engage with those with whom you disagree is natural for most of us. I didn't make the rules and don't enforce them.

So while you two are having your fun, I thought that the moral of this tragedy is that when you mess with the lowly 172, you can get your tail cut off.

The guy in the Lancair was old enough (and apparently wealthy enough) to extend his base leg while the student pilot landed.  Now look what he did.

- oldman
Title: Re: New info on mid air crash at Avra valley airport / Marana airpark AZ
Post by: Busher on March 13, 2025, 08:05:45 PM
So while you two are having your fun, I thought that the moral of this tragedy is that when you mess with the lowly 172, you can get your tail cut off.

The guy in the Lancair was old enough (and apparently wealthy enough) to extend his base leg while the student pilot landed.  Now look what he did.

- oldman

The wealthy one was clearly in the right. It's a national rule.
Title: Re: New info on mid air crash at Avra valley airport / Marana airpark AZ
Post by: Puma44 on March 14, 2025, 10:02:51 AM
Pilots misbehave often at uncontrolled fields.   

I operated the unicom while working for dulles aviation at W10 (manassas) and saw behavior that would never occur at a controlled airfield.

Agree.  I’ve used Marana for years as a convenience place to do pattern work.  Human nature will always overcome efforts to regulate stupidity.  Years ago I had been established in the pattern doing multiple patterns, reporting my position and intent on Unicom when a 182 jump plane dove at a very high angle and airspeed in an opposite direction, to land the opposite direction, while I was on short final for the best wind runway……all without any communication on the Unicom frequency!  I elected to go around, offsetting to the right (as the Lancair pilot should have) and avoided any physical contact.

Oh, by the way, IN!
Title: Re: New info on mid air crash at Avra valley airport / Marana airpark AZ
Post by: Maverick on March 14, 2025, 10:43:51 AM
Marana Air Park has a unicom and established procedures. The field has been there since 43 when it was a bomber training field. The "witnesses" were likely the desk crew at the main lobby / field access point. They have a monitor on the field freq so requests for the fuel truck can be made. Last I knew there were no self service pumps there so you had to call in on the radio or walk to the office to get either jet a or avgas.

There were no CCTV cameras watching the runway area back when I was there, same for Ryan field which has had a tower for decades.
Title: Re: New info on mid air crash at Avra valley airport / Marana airpark AZ
Post by: Animl-AW on March 14, 2025, 02:01:15 PM
Back in band camp it was learned stick hand in fire get burned. Repeat it, you deserve it.

There was also a time when people could joke or nudge someone without a box of kleenex coming out, but a laugh.

And now a word from our sponsor, Irish Spring “Manly Yes, But I Like it Too."


Back to an interesting subject.

There’s some illegal activity that surrounds those type AP, like smuggling. Could have a mix of mentalities around there. (recklessly guessing out of boredom) .

Interesting to know how many here are real pilots and enjoy this sim.
 
Title: Re: New info on mid air crash at Avra valley airport / Marana airpark AZ
Post by: Busher on March 14, 2025, 03:27:01 PM


Interesting to know how many here are real pilots and enjoy this sim.

There are quite a few. I believe Puma had many hours as USAF fighter jet pilot and some with an airline. I believe Vraciu currently flies business jets. And I retired from 42 years of professional flying with airlines in 2010. I am not sure of any other professional pilots but I believe that there are countless private pilots.

Just a thought though... "sim" is a bit of a stretch... "good video game" is closer.
Title: Re: New info on mid air crash at Avra valley airport / Marana airpark AZ
Post by: Animl-AW on March 14, 2025, 04:01:19 PM
Sim in the gaming world
The attraction to a game is interesting
Title: Re: New info on mid air crash at Avra valley airport / Marana airpark AZ
Post by: Puma44 on March 16, 2025, 10:12:04 AM
Last I knew there were no self service pumps there so you had to call in on the radio or walk to the office to get either jet a or avgas.

Marana does, and has for quite some time, have self service pumps.