General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: hazmatt on May 15, 2025, 01:25:14 PM
Title: Mixing board
Post by: hazmatt on May 15, 2025, 01:25:14 PM
I don't know anything about this stuff but my kids have a karaoke machine and my son recently got an electric guitar. I'm curious if I could use something like this to tie it all together?
Title: Re: Mixing board
Post by: Shuffler on May 15, 2025, 03:17:20 PM
Just reading the info I see this...
NOTE: You need to connect the front-end equipment, such as microphones, mixers, guitars, etc., and then connet the back-end equipment such as amplifiers and speakers to avoid noise or damage to the machine.
So evidently it will. How it sounds is another story at that price point.
Other parts seem to point that it is more for playing music off of different hardware. It even says to connect mixers and such first.
I'm no help.... lol
Title: Re: Mixing board
Post by: hazmatt on May 15, 2025, 03:20:18 PM
NOTE: You need to connect the front-end equipment, such as microphones, mixers, guitars, etc., and then connet the back-end equipment such as amplifiers and speakers to avoid noise or damage to the machine.
So evidently it will. How it sounds is another story at that price point.
Cool. I figured it would work from what I read. It can't sound any worse then their karaoke machine!
Title: Re: Mixing board
Post by: Animl-AW on May 15, 2025, 06:51:21 PM
I don't know anything about this stuff but my kids have a karaoke machine and my son recently got an electric guitar. I'm curious if I could use something like this to tie it all together?
Just use shielded cables for signal input to the mixer, not a guitar cord or speaker wire. You probably want a balanced connector too (same as a stereo cable), it will have 3 rings instead of 2 on the 1/4" input. Balanced and shielded cable/connector will eliminate noise. The shield will guard against RF leakages, a balanced cable will deal with interfacing grounding issues (common ground). You don't HAVE to do it this way, you may get lucky and standard unbalanced 1/4' ,may work, but if you have noise issues that is why, or signal is not the right ohms.
IF, you get a buzz from an input you may need an isolation transformer, but those are usually made for XLR/Mic cables connectors. a good isolation transformer will convert the signal to 600 ohms.
Basically your idea should be plug and play tho.
Don't use a speaker output into a mixer, it will overload it instantly, and may blow a capacitor in the mixer. If the machine distorts and goes into clip speaker signal WILL turn into DC voltage and cook the input. Headphones outputs usually work into a mixer with the right connector adapter.
Get it running, we'll solve any problems doing it.
Title: Re: Mixing board
Post by: hazmatt on May 15, 2025, 08:12:48 PM
Thanks for all the detailed info. Maybe I'm retarded. I searched for 1/4 shielded cable and balanced 1/4 cable on Amazon and didn't see any with 3 rings. If it wouldn't be too much trouble could you please give me a link example of these?
I was hoping to use a Bluetooth device or a 3.5 to RCA on the inputs so I could use my phone as a source and then run the output to my Silver Seven 700s that I picked up at a garage sale. I've been checking the garage sales for some Infinity IRS Vs to go with them but I haven't had any luck yet. I know I know, who would want to buy some 80ies speakers, I've just wanted a pair since I was a kid.
Title: Re: Mixing board
Post by: -gg- on May 15, 2025, 08:56:42 PM
I don't know anything about this stuff but my kids have a karaoke machine and my son recently got an electric guitar. I'm curious if I could use something like this to tie it all together?
Thanks for all the detailed info. Maybe I'm retarded. I searched for 1/4 shielded cable and balanced 1/4 cable on Amazon and didn't see any with 3 rings. If it wouldn't be too much trouble could you please give me a link example of these?
I was hoping to use a Bluetooth device or a 3.5 to RCA on the inputs so I could use my phone as a source and then run the output to my Silver Seven 700s that I picked up at a garage sale. I've been checking the garage sales for some Infinity IRS Vs to go with them but I haven't had any luck yet. I know I know, who would want to buy some 80ies speakers, I've just wanted a pair since I was a kid.
The balanced cable is shielded, my bad. Your devices may not require balanced, but balanced is universal, will work in either. Ya might as well use that type.
When I say 3 rings, not the black ones. The chrome metal. It's referred to as TRS or Tip Ring Sleeve.
https://tinyurl.com/8u3wj6wc
Balanced 1/4” (3 conductors) is better than RCA usually unbalanced (2 conductors) XLR(channel 1&2) (balanced cable and shielded) is better than 1/4”, but not much XLR locks in, 1/4” does not.
Channel 3&4 looks to be a stereo input single channel. You have the option of 1/4” or RCA.
If you have a Bluetooth receiver plug that output into 3 & 4, adjust input level, you’re golden.
Those speakers probably sound better and more meat than most I’ve seen under 1k ea. I’m s Bose or JBL for home. Prefer wood cabinets. Personally I could build my own that would crack walls. I built sound systems from scratch in the 80s.
I remember those.
Title: Re: Mixing board
Post by: hazmatt on May 16, 2025, 01:24:48 AM
The balanced cable is shielded, my bad. Your devices may not require balanced, but balanced is universal, will work in either. Ya might as well use that type.
When I say 3 rings, not the black ones. The chrome metal. It's referred to as TRS or Tip Ring Sleeve.
https://tinyurl.com/8u3wj6wc
Balanced 1/4” (3 conductors) is better than RCA usually unbalanced (2 conductors) XLR(channel 1&2) (balanced cable and shielded) is better than 1/4”, but not much XLR locks in, 1/4” does not.
Channel 3&4 looks to be a stereo input single channel. You have the option of 1/4” or RCA.
If you have a Bluetooth receiver plug that output into 3 & 4, adjust input level, you’re golden.
Those speakers probably sound better and more meat than most I’ve seen under 1k ea. I’m s Bose or JBL for home. Prefer wood cabinets. Personally I could build my own that would crack walls. I built sound systems from scratch in the 80s.
I remember those.
Thanks a bunch for explaining. It makes more sense now.
I found some photos of a pair of IRS Vs. From what I've read you can get them for about 30% of the original $80,000 they cost back in the 80ies. I'm still checking the yard sales!
Thanks a bunch for explaining. It makes more sense now.
I found some photos of a pair of IRS Vs. From what I've read you can get them for about 30% of the original $80,000 they cost back in the 80ies. I'm still checking the yard sales!
Most of that money is spent on cosmetics. Sure are pretty tho..
Physics, Its actually an easy concept, its a true line-array system. Usually all same size full range speakers in a straight line. Anytime you put 2 of the same speaker with same signals next to each other, between each speaker you gain 3-6db of volume the amp is not producing itself. Keep in mind 3db is the doubling of volume.
8 speakers in a row, wired in series-parallel, you will gain up to 36db of volume the amp is not working to produce, physics.
If you get to liking having a mixer at home, and wwnt more inout channels look at Mackie small mixers.
Driveling off the map,…Todays concerts when you look up at the speakers, same thing. Most call them line-arrays, but they are really variable-arrays because we can bend the stack like a banana.
EAW makes a true line-array, we used for Tom Petty. These are top shelf of top shelf. Using computerized digital phasing we can actually steer the sound around the room without pointing the speakers that direction. Insanely expensive at $28k per cabinet , insanely heavy as hell, we usually used 10-12 speakers per array, 6-8 arrays. Pretty crazy to hear the sound move around the room. Add stereo mixing and you kinda end up with 3D sound image.If they were around during Pink Floyd it would have been epic.
All sound is 100% physics. These are the calculations we are doing.
Lighting and video projectors kinda work the same way. Before video walls using a screen we use two projectors, both images layered on top of each other on a screen, its twice as brilliant.
The biggest screen I did was 400’ wide, using 16 high-end projectors and video mapping to make a 400’ wide video look like a 4k TV. If you use IMAX cams its stunning.
Title: Re: Mixing board
Post by: icepac on May 16, 2025, 08:50:29 AM
Say no to hanging screens all about in a willy nilly fashion.
Title: Re: Mixing board
Post by: hazmatt on May 16, 2025, 09:01:35 AM
I'll check out the Mackie mixers.
Ya. I fell in love with those speakers that are now old when I was a kid. The 80k the cost back then might as well have been 800k with the amount of money I had.
I'm not a big fan of concerts and traffic and everything that goes with them but I would like to see Rammstein as I've heard their pyrotechnics are awesome.
Title: Re: Mixing board
Post by: Animl-AW on May 16, 2025, 09:13:58 AM
I don't know anything about this stuff but my kids have a karaoke machine and my son recently got an electric guitar. I'm curious if I could use something like this to tie it all together?
At that price... I'd hesitate pretty hard. Maybe just get him a good mini under $100... some WAY under. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExMfSmtonQo
Title: Re: Mixing board
Post by: hazmatt on May 16, 2025, 11:45:43 PM
Tumor! Where have you been my friend. Good to see you!
My kid already has a mini amp that came with his electric guitar. My goal was to tie the karaoke machine the guitar and all into one device and to use something that I wouldn't be upset with if the kids destroyed it!
Title: Re: Mixing board
Post by: Tumor on May 17, 2025, 01:29:15 AM
Tumor! Where have you been my friend. Good to see you!
My kid already has a mini amp that came with his electric guitar. My goal was to tie the karaoke machine the guitar and all into one device and to use something that I wouldn't be upset with if the kids destroyed it!
I'm rooting for the kid & his guitar. Not knowing the mini he already has (and from what you said earlier), putting a decent amp between the Guitar & mixer would make an absolute world of difference. Although... that could send him into a rabbit hole from hell too lol
Title: Re: Mixing board
Post by: Animl-AW on May 17, 2025, 08:53:41 AM
Mesa Boogie gtr amps are/were killer. You can hold it in your hand. I once worked with a band who had quad Marshall stacks for guitar. Behind those stacks we really miced up a tiny Masa Boggie amp that sat on a chair. The Marshalls were empty, sounded great. Ha!
Title: Re: Mixing board
Post by: Tumor on May 18, 2025, 04:23:29 PM
Mesa Boogie gtr amps are/were killer. You can hold it in your hand. I once worked with a band who had quad Marshall stacks for guitar. Behind those stacks we really miced up a tiny Masa Boggie amp that sat on a chair. The Marshalls were empty, sounded great. Ha!
I bet! What band was it that recorded a whole LP with a ROCKMAN plugged into the Soundboard? Seem's like it was Def Leppard.
Title: Re: Mixing board
Post by: Animl-AW on May 18, 2025, 07:21:58 PM
I bet! What band was it that recorded a whole LP with a ROCKMAN plugged into the Soundboard? Seem's like it was Def Leppard.
You mean as a direct input? Pedal/Guitar? not failure with ROCKMAN, either way it, could be. Don't know the story. It's usually a very strong signal compared to a mic.
If he ran a guitar through his own pedals or effects rack, or nothing at all,.. it's just clean as hell. That said, losing the sound of an amp/speakers where some get their drive would be a change. I would think Jazz players might do that. I don't think that would be to uncommon in a studio tho.
I did a Moody Blues show when In-Ear Monitors first came out. Also a digital monitor console :(. The entire band went direct into the splitter that feeds line signal to FOH and Monitors. Since in-ears, no gtr amps, , no vocals or instruments in no speaker monitors, no drum-fill, no side-fills. Everything went into their ears and FOH. The stage was 90% DEAD... all you heard on stage was drums, and he barely hit the heads.
Keep in mind, I'm known for capable of high volume monitors (122db), For anything rock, I thump that damn stage, and your chest and feet is going to know it. I make my own hair stand up :) I'm now sitting there in almost silent stage during a show, compared. I'm sure I had a blank stare on my face, maybe a tear, thinking,.... if this is where this is going I'm OUT!! lol I could hear the mains from on-stage, but I heard nothing on stage,.... no hair raising events, dead air. Also, to hear what they hear I had to wear IEMs myself. BLAH!.
ANYWAY,.. Ya I've run into a couple people who wanted direct line. More likely in studio tho. Probably if rock/metal, it would be weird to not get that amp sound,.. BUT, when the gtr player has a large FX rack he can literally make it sound however he wants, simulated amp over-drive and all.
Title: Re: Mixing board
Post by: icepac on May 19, 2025, 04:26:31 AM
Yngwie Malmsteen used a rockman for his rhythm tracks on “no parole from rock and roll” by Alcatraz and on “Rising Force.
Title: Re: Mixing board
Post by: Tumor on May 19, 2025, 08:55:13 AM
You mean as a direct input? Pedal/Guitar? not failure with ROCKMAN, either way it, could be. Don't know the story. It's usually a very strong signal compared to a mic.
Made by Tom Scholz, most of'em used as a portable headphone Amp... it was Hysteria I was thinking of. There's others.
Title: Re: Mixing board
Post by: Animl-AW on May 19, 2025, 09:35:54 AM
Made by Tom Scholz, most of'em used as a portable headphone Amp... it was Hysteria I was thinking of. There's others.
Tons more. The weird things I’ve been asked to do. Some of them actually went well. But if it jeopardized the show or my rep they got push back. At which point me and road manager make eye contact, if he nods I do it.
I’ve sent gtr/bass players out who were not even plugged in. At least put a dead cable on to try to be convincing. I’ve gone out on stage, mid show, to replace batteries in a wireless belt pack because the gtr tech forgot to when he had it, more than once.
BB King used Peavy black widow speakers in his fender amp. Carried cases of them because he blew them often. i’d be in stage replacing them while he talked to pass time. Over 12 yrs probably did that 4 times. I had no more than 5 min to finish, usually took 3, which is still forever mid show.
Lot of those big stacks of gtr amps? Ya many times empty except the one we mic. All show.
Yep totally believe he went direct.
Title: Re: Mixing board
Post by: Animl-AW on May 19, 2025, 10:20:11 AM