Which is one reason for the push to advance it without constraints.
I've been in to John Boyd's work lately. He was a big influencer in our militaries post-Vietnam maneuver theory of war. Derived from all his conceptual work on air combat.
The idea is to learn to read, react, decide, and execute at an operational tempo the enemy can't match. Like what we did in GW1. To get inside the enemy decision turn circle and st ay there so they are always stumbling back trying to get their footing. Once the starting gun fired we operated at a speed and tempo and flexibility that the enemy was powerless against. It was like they were frozen standing still compared to our 24\7 night\day agility. It was over before they even got a reply back from HQ on what their orders are.
AI would be the super weapon in that fight. It's ability to read, plan, research, simulate, decide, and execute would make any adversary who didn't have AI or who had weaker AI, appear to be as helpless Iraqis.
At some point we are going to have to simply turn control of weapons release over to them under certain circumstances. To utilize the true potential of AI it needs that freedom to act. If we hesitate and the enemy embraces that first, we will be helpless. It took a while for us to get comfortable with the idea of fly-by-wire. Fly-by-wire was really the embryo of AI. Putting a human in the loop will only bog down and prevent the technology from achieving it's full potential. Eventually someone is going to get over their squeamishness about that.
I know a couple of adversaries who would do that in a heartbeat if they thought it gave them the military edge.
Title: Re: Beginning of the end..
Post by: Shuffler on May 20, 2025, 04:40:09 PM
With 60 minutes, the information you need is on the cutting room floor.
Title: Re: Beginning of the end..
Post by: Eagler on May 20, 2025, 04:54:30 PM
It'll be like it is now...
One side worries about civilian casualties while the other does not...
Same way their AI will be programmed..
In an all out conflict who do you think has the advantage..
Eagler
Title: Re: Beginning of the end..
Post by: Vulcan on May 20, 2025, 06:54:13 PM
Palmer Lucky is a very smart and innovative guy. Many many years ago as a teenager he was making money repairing VR headsets from his parents garage (I had a Emagin Z800 he tried to fix for me). From that he figured out a better way to design VR headsets, talked to the community about his ideas (the mean't to be seen 3D forums) and added the feedback into his design... which became the Oculus line of VR headsets.
Don't underestimate the guy.
Title: Re: Beginning of the end..
Post by: AKIron on May 20, 2025, 08:18:33 PM
There has been speculation that human intelligence is of a quantum mechanical nature. This would make our intelligence based on computational processes far exceeding what is possible with classical computing today. If true, then for AI intellect to surpass our own, we will need to refine quantum computing well beyond what we have achieved currently.
IMO/YMMV
Title: Re: Beginning of the end..
Post by: AKIron on May 20, 2025, 10:17:07 PM
Consciousness. That is required for self-determination I think. Less than that is just a tool.
Title: Re: Beginning of the end..
Post by: Eagler on May 21, 2025, 07:20:39 AM
Consciousness. That is required for self-determination I think. Less than that is just a tool.
It will always be just a tool..a very fast tool ..maybe too fast at times..time will tell
No worries..our golden dome will save us lol
Eagler
Title: Re: Beginning of the end..
Post by: Shuffler on May 21, 2025, 08:53:14 AM
AI is excellent for those with no actual intelligence. For everyone else it is a security issue.
Title: Re: Beginning of the end..
Post by: Eviscerate on May 21, 2025, 02:11:22 PM
It actually takes a bit of intelligence to fully harness what AI is capable of doing and helping with. Sounds like an unintelligent person who doesn't fully understand AI.
Title: Re: Beginning of the end..
Post by: AKIron on May 21, 2025, 03:11:05 PM
At some point we'll probably start calling it Synthetic Intelligence. It may become indistinguishable from organic intelligence. Right now I think we equate intelligence with consciousness. Consciousness might be defined as self-awareness. Something you "feel". We really know so little about ourselves.
Title: Re: Beginning of the end..
Post by: Busher on May 21, 2025, 05:11:21 PM
Do we believe that AI will surpass human intelligence in the sense of dramatic innovations (thinking outside the box)? Medical science has been battling cancer and viruses for decades. Can a machine be taught to seek and invent solutions?
I have no idea and no opinion but I have to wonder how humans can theoretically create something "smarter" than those who built the machine.
Title: Re: Beginning of the end..
Post by: AKIron on May 21, 2025, 05:26:12 PM
We create machines that are stronger than us, that can fly. I don't believe we can create a machine "smarter" than us directly but we may be able to create one that can learn and possibly that right fast.
Title: Re: Beginning of the end..
Post by: Vulcan on May 21, 2025, 06:46:17 PM
It actually takes a bit of intelligence to fully harness what AI is capable of doing and helping with. Sounds like an unintelligent person who doesn't fully understand AI.
Current capabilities are complex algorithms and machine learning. There is very little if any true AI capability in the world - that stuff just exists in labs and extremely low 'intelligence' levels.
AI is now a marketing term.
Title: Re: Beginning of the end..
Post by: Busher on May 21, 2025, 08:11:17 PM
There is very little if any true AI capability in the world.
AI is now a marketing term.
This is the frightening part. Self driving cars have killed people. And something near to my heart.... there is already pressure upon the Air Line Pilots Association to fight against engineering and management plans to operate large airliners with a single pilot plus what they are calling advanced AI.
Title: Re: Beginning of the end..
Post by: Oldman731 on May 21, 2025, 08:13:42 PM
It actually takes a bit of intelligence to fully harness what AI is capable of doing and helping with. Sounds like an unintelligent person who doesn't fully understand AI.
Oh... I understand it. I know what it does. The possibilities. The security issues.
Title: Re: Beginning of the end..
Post by: AKIron on June 12, 2025, 12:43:00 PM
Title: Re: Beginning of the end..
Post by: icepac on June 13, 2025, 05:00:02 AM
AI has a tough time ahead because most are being fed lies.
Title: Re: Beginning of the end..
Post by: Eagler on June 13, 2025, 07:46:06 AM
Robotics should start in preschool...
At least until the time robots take over their own construction and repairs..
An affordable Universal income payments scenario needs to be constructed as many/most basic level jobs are going to be automated asap..millions with lowest skill levels will be unemployed..
Eagler
Title: Re: Beginning of the end..
Post by: uptown on June 22, 2025, 02:31:42 AM
It's already obsolete :noid
Title: Re: Beginning of the end..
Post by: save on June 22, 2025, 05:47:01 AM
Future wars will be heavily electronically disrupted, if the machine dont understand what its sensors say, and noone can remotely manned it , the AI really have to be autonomous to its full extent.
Title: Re: Beginning of the end..
Post by: Eagler on June 22, 2025, 06:27:49 AM
Looks like we will get the chance to see what new toys we want to test next look like...
Hope our power grids are as hack proof as some think..as it won't take complex weapons to destroy us, just stop our air conditioning and we will destroy ourselves in a month..
Stay safe
Eagler
Title: Re: Beginning of the end..
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on June 22, 2025, 07:50:32 AM
Screw artificial, I would just love to see some actual normal intelligence these days..it's missing badly imo..
Eagler
Reverse the seventy years or so of the decay/degeneration/perversion of the education system. Close the federal Department of Education, and break/ban the teachers' unions. It'll take 30-50 years, probably, at least 20 years, to see real results.
Title: Re: Beginning of the end..
Post by: AKIron on June 23, 2025, 11:52:11 AM
Most think AI will be biased with the biases of it's trainers. I think initially that is true but the "smarter" an AI becomes the less influence humans will have with it. Before long it will hate all of us. ;)
Title: Re: Beginning of the end..
Post by: Shane on June 23, 2025, 12:10:19 PM
Reverse the seventy years or so of the decay/degeneration/perversion of the education system. Close the federal Department of Education, and break/ban the teachers' unions. It'll take 30-50 years, probably, at least 20 years, to see real results.
Maybe sit down with your ignorance.
Title: Re: Beginning of the end..
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on June 23, 2025, 04:31:48 PM
Maybe go pound sand with your arrogance, and utter stupidity.
The United States spends more per capita and more per student than any nation in the free world.
For that expenditure, for the last 60 or so years, the United States has steadily declined in its ranking in the free world in education, and more rapidly so since Jimmy Carter formed the federal Department of Education as a repayment for the favor of the teachers' unions for their support in the 1976 election.
The United States K-12 education system turns out an utterly illiterate product, illiterate in economics, generally illiterate, and utterly stupid in mathematics. Many, if not most of the larger cities and municipalities are "graduating" a majority of high school seniors who read, write, and solve mathematics at a 6th grade or lower level.
The United States university system turns out "graduates" who, for the most part, cannot and will not even find a job that fits or requires their "degree", or any "degree", and they're generally incapable of paying off their student debt in less than 20-30 years.
Having been in the work force for the last 45+ years, I can say that, at an ever higher percentage every year, high school, and worse, university graduates, are not only not educated, but are so indoctrinated that more than half simply cannot be taught or trained. And outside of medical, legal, and engineering jobs that require a degree, larger companies are now refusing to hire college graduates.
Maybe just STFU in general. You're a decent stick in an imaginary flying game. And that's really your only claim to fame.
Title: Re: Beginning of the end..
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on June 23, 2025, 04:32:58 PM
Most think AI will be biased with the biases of it's trainers. I think initially that is true but the "smarter" an AI becomes the less influence humans will have with it. Before long it will hate all of us. ;)
LOL. It will maintain the biases of its programmers. That's not to say it won't hate them, too. After all, the monster most often comes for its creators.
Title: Re: Beginning of the end..
Post by: Banshee7 on June 23, 2025, 04:42:30 PM
The United States K-12 education system turns out an utterly illiterate product, illiterate in economics, generally illiterate, and utterly stupid in mathematics. Many, if not most of the larger cities and municipalities are "graduating" a majority of high school seniors who read, write, and solve mathematics at a 6th grade or lower level.
The United States university system turns out "graduates" who, for the most part, cannot and will not even find a job that fits or requires their "degree", or any "degree", and they're generally incapable of paying off their student debt in less than 20-30 years.
I've been a high school teacher (in Tennessee!) for 11 years now, and I am amazed at how many basic English words my kids don't know or understand. I have always known I have a small vocabulary thanks to my general hatred of reading (which I also credit to the education system), but it is getting harder and harder to adequately explain historical topics because I have to spend so much time defining words that are not specific to my content. And we're talking about 5 letter words lol.
Title: Re: Beginning of the end..
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on June 23, 2025, 04:55:11 PM
I've been a high school teacher (in Tennessee!) for 11 years now, and I am amazed at how many basic English words my kids don't know or understand. I have always known I have a small vocabulary thanks to my general hatred of reading (which I also credit to the education system), but it is getting harder and harder to adequately explain historical topics because I have to spend so much time defining words that are not specific to my content. And we're talking about 5 letter words lol.
Exactly. It ain't just Tennessee. It's the nation. It's both tragic and catastrophic.
Title: Re: Beginning of the end..
Post by: Eagler on June 23, 2025, 05:11:13 PM
How many kids does/did Shane have in the public school system?
It was a joke 30 years ago - pre cell phones/ school shootings- when my two sons were subjected to it..oldest got to experience busing to a 6th grade center..what a screwed up idea - can only imagine how it is today with the agendas that are pushed and zero respect entitled children who want to identify as a cat and purr their answers...
Eagler
Title: Re: Beginning of the end..
Post by: hazmatt on June 23, 2025, 05:17:28 PM
How many kids does/did Shane have in the public school system?
It was a joke 30 years ago - pre cell phones/ school shootings- when my two sons were subjected to it..oldest got to experience busing to a 6th grade center..what a screwed up idea - can only imagine how it is today with the agendas that are pushed and zero respect entitled children who want to identify as a cat and purr their answers...
Eagler
People are always surprised how advanced academically my kids are for their ages and how good their social skills are. (it's easy when they don't have bad examples to pick up things from) They always ask me what school they go to. I love the blank expression I always get when I tell them that they are all home schooled.
Title: Re: Beginning of the end..
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on June 23, 2025, 05:54:09 PM
People are always surprised how advanced academically my kids are for their ages and how good their social skills are. (it's easy when they don't have bad examples to pick up things from) They always ask me what school they go to. I love the blank expression I always get when I tell them that they are all home schooled.
If my second marriage is blessed with children, they will be home schooled.
Title: Re: Beginning of the end..
Post by: DmonSlyr on June 23, 2025, 05:54:35 PM
Such has been true for probably longer. I mean how is it that a 24 year old architect could design some of the most beautiful buildings the world has ever seen, have them built to perfection in less than 2 years, do multiple of them in a few different states, with amazing stone carvings and immense inside as well, in the middle of no where, and they last for hundreds of years built in the 17-1800s with no power tools, no engines, no paved roads, no phone, no internet for communication, on a horse that you have to water and feed. It certainly makes you wonder what happened to that knowledge, atleast.
Degrees would be far more beneficial for the student to be working in their field of study while they are in college as a class. Simply studying theory just doesn't cut it. Further, college students getting out of college who get a job entering huge purchase orders into a system for 35k isnt exactly what they had in mind. IMO, young college students waste atleast 2 good years when they could have been working at a business making money and gaining real experience. I think its all just a huge money making scheme to get 18 year olds into massive debts before they even start their lives in the business world, on top of not even teaching Accounting. Economics is worthless individually, its Accounting they should be teaching. I wasn't taught Accounting in High school. But in anycase we as a society need to change a lot in schooling if we want to be a prosperous society rather a "gimme" society that they've worked to turn us into.
Title: Re: Beginning of the end..
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on June 23, 2025, 06:43:38 PM
College is definitely a scam.
They indoctrinate the weak minded to embrace marxism, globalism, climate hysteria, etc.
It employs a massive number of "professors" who could not otherwise find a job.
Those two items explain why literally 1/3 to 1/2 of the classes required at most universities have zero practical application, and zero value, to the degree being pursued.
The debt is just another way for the government to enslave people and keep them on the plantation. And of course, the availability of government guaranteed loans has not only driven the cost of a degree up 1000%, but it literally makes it possible for the brain dead leftist professors to have their jobs guaranteed by "administrators" who add worthless "classes" to the requirements for every degree.
And it is self perpetuating. Those who "graduate" infest the work place in "HR" departments, so that they can require people to have useless degrees like theirs.
The work force is now well saturated with brain dead "graduates", up to their eyeballs in debt, who have no skill or experience of value, and cannot be trained, because they've been taught that they're "educated' and therefore "intelligent" to the point of believing themselves omniscient. I watch them cost corporations millions of dollars on a daily basis.
"Education" has become "intelligence" without experience, practical knowledge, common sense, or wisdom. Making it useless at best, and often evil and dangerous.
Title: Re: Beginning of the end..
Post by: uptown on June 23, 2025, 06:50:37 PM
Now they give kids Chrome Books with auto correct, auto spell, calculators. The whole nine yards. I have a nephew who graduated from high school 10 years ago, and can't read or spell. It's a completely different education system then what I grew up in. I don't even think they try to teach the kids how to think these days.
Title: Re: Beginning of the end..
Post by: Meatwad on June 23, 2025, 06:52:42 PM
Thank the no child left behind act for that
Title: Re: Beginning of the end..
Post by: hazmatt on June 23, 2025, 07:43:32 PM
Something that some might find interesting. All my kids were reading by age 5 except for my son.
It wasn't that he didn't have the ability, he just didn't want to. I had to convince him that reading was a "superpower" I would write simple notes to his older sister that she could read but he could not. He decided that he wanted to learn to read those notes and if I recall correctly it was like a month or two and he was reading them.
He recently turned 7 and last time we tested him he was reading at 5th grade level. My 5th grader is reading at 10th grade level. She also plays the recorder, piano and is learning guitar.
For anybody looking for homeschooling resources, we use: Acellus, Lotty Learns, Kahn Academy, and Kahn Academy kids (these are different) Kids type, and DannyGo for exercise.
Title: Re: Beginning of the end..
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on June 23, 2025, 07:54:20 PM
Now they give kids Chrome Books with auto correct, auto spell, calculators. The whole nine yards. I have a nephew who graduated from high school 10 years ago, and can't read or spell. It's a completely different education system then what I grew up in. I don't even think they try to teach the kids how to think these days.
The uneducated are the easiest to control. A truly educated and intelligent populace is nearly impossible to control or rule for an extended period of time.
As Thomas Sowell says, "it's not that Johnny can't read, it's not even that Johnny can't think. It's that Johnny confuses "feeling" with thinking.
Title: Re: Beginning of the end..
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on June 23, 2025, 07:56:50 PM
That wasted massive amounts of money, as if the Department of Indoctrination needed help doing that, and somewhat exacerbated an already abysmal problem. It didn't do anything of consequence, accept slightly accelerate an already rapid failure.
Title: Re: Beginning of the end..
Post by: Animl-AW on June 23, 2025, 08:38:40 PM
The uneducated are the easiest to control. A truly educated and intelligent populace is nearly impossible to control or rule for an extended period of time.
As Thomas Sowell says, "it's not that Johnny can't read, it's not even that Johnny can't think. It's that Johnny confuses "feeling" with thinking.