What do you figure the return on your 100k would be?
How long until that return is realized?
Eagler
Probably not long after converting to Unreal Engine. Which could take 3-9 months, depending. Which would require a few top shelf programmers to update any C++ scripts to a modern C++ script function for UR to execute them. Raise polly count and thats if objects and assets will import right in. Other wise add a lot of time for re-modeling objects that don’t.
If you got there, you’d stomp IL-2 and WT to bits. With UR you can 3D scan real scenery and objects. Thats part of why they look real. Much easier.
Of course skimmers would be perma-banned for life from bbs and game. Then again, if you went UR they couldn’t touch you. Only diff would be cockpits.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Shane on May 29, 2025, 09:38:07 AM
if HT wants to let you two destroy his income and reputation that’s his call. Evidently he doesn’t need our money.
Powerless? Frankly lil boy, I can reach out and touch you at will.
Don’t you have someone in DCS to doxx? Bet you thought that was the end of me. Lol,
My, sounds like more of your forum threats. And who has doxxed you? I haven't posted any links to your records.
If I criticize sometime about the AH design or marketing approach, my problem is with the design or marketing approach. Not the man.
I got no problem with HT. It's some of the clueless dolts he calls customers, and they don't dictate where or what I post. And I'm willing to expend significant effort in proving that to them over and over.
Like how we'll spend years sending destroyers up and down the China Sea anytime China tries to tell use we are not allowed. Just because we know it annoys them. ;)
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Animl-AW on May 29, 2025, 10:13:14 AM
My, sounds like more of your forum threats. And who has doxxed you? I haven't posted any links to your records.
If I criticize sometime about the AH design or marketing approach, my problem is with the design or marketing approach. Not the man.
I got no problem with HT. It's some of the clueless dolts he calls customers, and they don't dictate where or what I post. And I'm willing to expend significant effort in proving that to them over and over.
Like how we'll spend years sending destroyers up and down the China Sea anytime China tries to tell use we are not allowed. Just because we know it annoys them. ;)
We know you’re allowed because you’re from TX. You’re nothing. You try so hard trolling. You two spent two days dedicated to trolling me. I’m in your heads rent free.
Btw you were a part of the doxxing, you just got others to do your dirty work, you provided the info to post them. yep I have witnesses you think are friends, they came to me with it. Statute of limitations on your online defamation and role in doxxing is not up. But please, keep talking.
I’m going to stay here because it eats you alive inside.
Again, if HT allows you to destroy his income and reputation its his call, And if PAYING CUSTOMERS want 12 year disgruntled former player to destroy their numbers (HTs income) thats their call.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Shane on May 29, 2025, 10:16:30 AM
If I criticize sometime about the AH design or marketing approach, my problem is with the design or marketing approach. Not the man.
I got no problem with HT.
Yes, you do have a problem with the man and how he operates his business. You're basically just a disgruntled window-licker who keeps coming here for attention. Now if you were a currently paying customer, I might give you more slack in my low opinion of your trolling. Until then, how about just staying in O'Club.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: CptTrips on May 29, 2025, 10:32:02 AM
Btw you were a part of the doxxing, you just got others to do your dirty work, you provided the info to post them. yep I have witnesses you think are friends, they came to me with it. Statute of limitations on your online defamation and role in doxxing is not up. But please, keep talking.
I've not posted any personal info of yours.
One minute you say I'm a dork, everyone has me on ignore and no one listens to me. Next you say I am a criminal mastermind with a vast network of secret agents I can order todo my bidding. Lol. Which is it? Am I a dork or a Bond Villain?
Oooh, I always wanted to be a bond villain.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: CptTrips on May 29, 2025, 10:34:35 AM
Lol. You know HT isn't from Texas, right Genius? lol
Oh, I'll spend a llifetime. It's so darn amusing.
I’m in your heads rent free.
I've not posted any personal info of yours.
One minute you say I'm a dork, everyone has me on ignore and no one listens to me. Next you say I am a criminal mastermind with a vast network of secret agents I can order todo my bidding. Lol. Which is it? Am I a dork or a Bond Villain?
Oooh, I always wanted to be a bond villain.
I didn’t even read your delirium. I feel bad when arguing with people with obsessive mental disorders. I’m sure HT is reading your intensions to be here.
I can feel your mental boil from here the last 3-4 days. “What can we try next?” You even break laws here to try to get at me. And you spell it out in front of god and everyone.
Your intension is to burn the whole house down to get rid of one guy you have deeply obsessed over for wrecking your skimming efforts. Basically you have nothing and hate yourself so much that you project yourself on me as something to despise.
Your vast immaturity explains your goals as a 15 yr old angry girl.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: CptTrips on May 29, 2025, 10:47:33 AM
I didn’t even read your delirium. I feel bad when arguing with people with obsessive mental disorders. I’m sure HT is reading your intensions to be here.
I can feel your mental boil from here the last 3-4 days. “What can we try next?” You even break laws here to try to get at me. And you spell it out in front of god and everyone.
Your intension is to burn the whole house down to get rid of one guy you have deeply obsessed iver for wrecking your skimming efforts. Basically you gave nothing and hate yoyrself so much that you project yourself on me as something to despise.
Your vast immaturity explains your goals as a 15 yr old angry girl.
Yet you quote someone you've said 100 times you've put on ignore over the last year. Heheh. You just can't help yourself. lol Like a moth to the flame. I control you. ;)
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Shane on May 29, 2025, 10:48:29 AM
Darn. I was considering reopening an account just to get in on that fun. ;)
No one deserves it more.
Considering you have no context behind what happened, or even what was said.... :rofl
. <------ missed another spot
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Animl-AW on May 29, 2025, 11:33:43 AM
Seems to me, Mr. no rule breaker consistently broke 2 and 4 just in this thread. Threatening to continue trolling and hijacking a thread with trolling.
Of course Trips would know about using the report button, he trolls for a reaction then stands on the report button. This is what children do. Except he's drunk by 10a.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: CptTrips on May 29, 2025, 11:40:33 AM
Yes, you do have a problem with the man and how he operates his business. You're basically just a disgruntled window-licker who keeps coming here for attention. Now if you were a currently paying customer, I might give you more slack in my low opinion of your trolling. Until then, how about just staying in O'Club.
I have to come out to tell you what an HO looks like since obviously you have no SA.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Animl-AW on May 29, 2025, 12:30:58 PM
How many would invest a precentage to own the game? I would invest 100k
I would go in for about up to $3k.
I think this is a good idea but it would all depend on what Hitech is planing and why his game is still up and running.
Is he keeping it on to make money or is just trying to break even and keep it running for the community?
Can we buy the server and game (AH3 with the old AH2 H2H back) while Hitech retains the IP and rights to further develop a new game (AH4).
If Hitech ever goes to sell the game IP to some one say like EA I pray to God he gives us a heads up and maybe a chance to offer some sort of counter offer to keep AH3 Going.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Shane on May 29, 2025, 12:47:05 PM
I think this is a good idea but it would all depend on what Hitech is planing and why his game is still up and running.
Is he keeping it on to make money or is just trying to break even and keep it running for the community?
Can we buy the server and game (AH3 with the old AH2 H2H back) while Hitech retains the IP and rights to further develop a new game (AH4).
If Hitech ever goes to sell the game IP to some one say like EA I pray to God he gives us a heads up and maybe a chance to offer some sort of counter offer to keep AH3 Going.
Well, I didn't really take the OP that seriously because I thought he was jesting.
There have been a couple of interesting discussion on that over the last year. I think the last one was over in the Wishlist somewhere if you want to find it. We even tried to run some possible numbers.
Basically take what you'd estimate the yearly net income (the hard part to calculate) and multiply that by 5 and that starts to be a reasonable number to negotiate around.
I think the conclusion was there was no reasonable amount of money a VC could offer that I'd suspect HT would be interested in.
It's a long term fixed annuity he as invested in for years so no reason not to let it sit in the closet and run for passive income stream, even if he goes off and does other things as a company or individual engineer.
But if you want to day-dream lets say 1000 subs, I'd be surprised if he would entertain an offer less that ~500k-1mil. He might also have private investors already to satisfy. I don't know if that would make it easier or harder to sell.
But hey, get $500k and wave it in front of him and watch for a reaction. Then you'll know how to play him. ;)
$0.02.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: AKIron on May 29, 2025, 12:51:46 PM
I doubt you can handle yourself in a plane - AH is simply too competitive (even today) for people like you that desire set piece action vs weak AI.
I'm old now but I have flown real planes and of course played Air Warrior, Warbirds, Aces High, and other multiplayer flight sims. I fly DCS with real people too. PvE is more fun for me these days. I have less tolerance for drama and AI never whines.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Shane on May 29, 2025, 12:57:01 PM
I'm old now but I have flown real planes and of course played Air Warrior, Warbirds, Aces High, and other multiplayer flight sims. I fly DCS with real people too. PvE is more fun for me these days. I have less tolerance for drama and AI never whines.
You were never more than merely adequate at this game, mere food for anyone with a modicum of skill. :ahand The fact you're trying to virtue flex confirms it. :aok
And you're stunningly hypocritical because that's what you do here, troll for drama - like finding you on my ankle in this thread. :rofl
Guess no one in DCS likes interacting with you in game or on their boards if you keep seeking it here. :noid Have you tried smiling more?
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Dadtallica on May 29, 2025, 01:00:21 PM
How about the three of you just all kiss and get it over with.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: AKIron on May 29, 2025, 01:32:18 PM
You were never more than merely adequate at this game, mere food for anyone with a modicum of skill. :ahand The fact you're trying to virtue flex confirms it. :aok
And you're stunningly hypocritical because that's what you do here, troll for drama - like finding you on my ankle in this thread. :rofl
Guess no one in DCS likes interacting with you in game or on their boards if you keep seeking it here. :noid Have you tried smiling more?
I'm mostly retired. I have time to make you and your buddy animl whine. Takes little effort.
And I always knew what a head on was.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Shane on May 29, 2025, 01:51:35 PM
I would think $100k is way more than what the game is worth today, have you offered that? I'd be hesitant to spend any more than $40k.
40k? That may be all it would be worth to you, but the counter party gets a vote too.
I bet he is grossing at least 100k\yr revenue. Why would he sell lock stock and barrel for 4 months gross revenue?
He's not a Liberal Arts Major.
The man can do math. He just can't spell. ;)
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: LCADolby on May 30, 2025, 07:17:58 AM
This ran through my head (probably very wrong);
14.99 x 12 then that by the number of accounts... minus server overhead etc. then remove the theft.. I mean the tax. 100k is around the yearly income figure. The company value with it's assets makes that go up. The game's neglect/lack of development. therefore, Yearly reducing revenue. It's not a viable long term business without significant investment; The best being to remaster the graphics only perhaps by putting the game into Unreal Engine, maybe 5 mil for all the models and art etc.. Then to put on commercials for youtube/youtubers and whatnot 1 mil.. Anyone got a spare 7-10 million laying around? Due to sentimental value added, 1mil to HiTech to get the game The rest to remaster and market AH
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Eagler on May 30, 2025, 07:34:38 AM
Sounds cheaper just to keep sending HT bottles of good scotch to keep it going as is :aok
Eagler
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Animl-AW on May 30, 2025, 09:26:05 AM
As I stated 3 times before. Chances are good you do NOT have to remodel every object, you simply raise the poly count, and they MAY to port right into UR as is, You’re probably not going to spend 5 million to remodel objects. Vulcan stuff slides right in. Your editing (updating not rewriting) C++ function calls.
Way way off base.
100k for the game? No chance of that. You’re buying the game and gear and what was spent to make it to some degree. Negotiations would happen. No less than 7 digits.
Seems I was a part of this type stuff late 90s. EA didn’t buy AW for small beans, way up in 7 -8 digits and it was much less of a game. However they were buying large audience too.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: hazmatt on May 30, 2025, 09:28:38 AM
14.99 x 12 then that by the number of accounts... minus server overhead etc. then remove the theft.. I mean the tax. 100k is around the yearly income figure. The company value with it's assets makes that go up. The game's neglect/lack of development. therefore, Yearly reducing revenue. It's not a viable long term business without significant investment; The best being to remaster the graphics only perhaps by putting the game into Unreal Engine, maybe 5 mil for all the models and art etc.. Then to put on commercials for youtube/youtubers and whatnot 1 mil.. Anyone got a spare 7-10 million laying around? Due to sentimental value added, 1mil to HiTech to get the game The rest to remaster and market AH
I've seen some pretty good coading from AI. I'd bet AI could help with some of the updates.
I think the current models are fine with the exception of the tempest or typhoon or whatever it was that didn't get finished. If they could be imported or converted as is it might save a bunch.
I think that getting more players by whatever means necessary would be the first step. What happens if (as many have suggested)_the subscription model is what's keeping the numbers down and even after all the investment and updates the numbers don't rise?
I for one have seen all the great content out there I can get for free or for a one time payment for stuff that I want that I doubt I would go back to a straight subscription model.
I'm sure I'll get attacked for this by the people who say it's .50 cents a day or whatever, however, something clearly isn't working when world war II flight sims like War thunder have hundreds of thousands of players online at one time and AH3 is no longer able to get to 500.
I know that WT will get attacked by all the players who have never played Sim or Realistic battles (which are where most of the players play) and by all the people who have never played it or only played it in Arcade battles mode but the point remains. They have hundreds of thousands of players so they must be doing something right.
I would just hate to see a bunch of money invested and it not have the expected outcome.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: hazmatt on May 30, 2025, 09:30:34 AM
As I stated 3 times before. Chances are good you do NOT have to remodel every object, you simply raise the poly count, and they MAY to port right into UR as is, You’re probably not going to spend 5 million to remodel objects. Vulcan stuff slides right in. Your editing (updating not rewriting) C++ function calls.
Way way off base.
100k for the game? No chance of that. You’re buying the game and gear and what was spent to make it to some degree. Negotiations would happen. No less than 7 digits.
Seems I was a part of this type stuff late 90s. EA didn’t buy AW for small beans, way up in 7 -8 digits and it was much less of a game. However they were buying large audience too.
I haven't coaded in years but re-writing function calls doesn't sound difficult, it merely sounds time consuming.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Shane on May 30, 2025, 09:30:57 AM
I for one have seen all the great content out there I can get for free or for a one time payment for stuff that I want that I doubt I would go back to a straight subscription model.
I would just hate to see a bunch of money invested and it not have the expected outcome.
I can see how $15 would be a huge outlay for you. Have you considered a p/t job?
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: DmonSlyr on May 30, 2025, 11:22:23 AM
This is a very tough topic.
Tbh, id rather the game go to a Steam arcade like area where its free to play and not much can be changed besides skins and maps.
In all fairness I'd hate for the game to get into the wrong hands, where decisions are made too quickly and changes run a bunch of long time players off. Do I think some things should be changed, yes, but the biggest thing is to get rid of the bigger maps in the one section and then do a re-mix of the map rotation.
But if someone came in there and made a bunch of monetary payment options for planes, or changed the MA structure to suit their needs individually, that wouldn't be very good.
There needs to be more polls inside the game to measure gameplay and see people's unique opinions. This is what colleges do to evaluate courses and measure if the courses are working and people enjoy them. Then certain decisions could be made to enhance overall gameplay.
For what its worth, Id hope HTC would sell to long time player whose a business professional that understands the game and the player base. Or just end it all together when he can no longer run the game. Id hate to see some stupid company take it and run it into the ground with changes that the player base just couldn't stand.
No amount of money can fix poor decisions with a game barely hanging on so if it doesn't change to a free to play model or change to a 1 time payment model of say $40. I doubt much will change to effect #s. And if bad decisions are made too quickly, it may run most of the current players off even more.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Dadtallica on May 30, 2025, 01:47:48 PM
I can see how $15 would be a huge outlay for you. Have you considered a p/t job?
Well this just proves you’re ridiculous. Who are you to decide what value $15 is to someone other than you?
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: The Fugitive on May 30, 2025, 01:56:36 PM
Be careful what you wish for. We were all very excited about EA buying up "Air Warriors" back in the day. New money coming in, talk of new graphics with a big company behind it. I dont think the ink was dry after they bought it and word came down they were closing down the game.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Shane on May 30, 2025, 02:18:19 PM
Well this just proves you’re ridiculous. Who are you to decide what value $15 is to someone other than you?
A paying customer replying to a disgruntled ex-player that was fine paying $15 until he got a ten minute timeout from a mod, quit in a hissy fit, and now wants free entertainment, but doesn't use the free arenas, provided at paying customers' expense. :aok
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Mayhem on May 30, 2025, 02:46:51 PM
Be careful what you wish for. We were all very excited about EA buying up "Air Warriors" back in the day. New money coming in, talk of new graphics with a big company behind it. I dont think the ink was dry after they bought it and word came down they were closing down the game.
Do you remember how many people were playing AWME at EA when it was free?
I jumped in several times and never saw more than a dozen people playing and not a single one was some one I knew. I think Air Warrior being in decline based on old 1987 spaghetti code was a contributing factor not just EA being EAvil (But Ya EA was still being EAvil).
But Ya ... Letting AH go to some one like EA would be a very bad thing for us. Again I pray HT would give us a heads up and chance to intervene if that ever comes close to happening.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Animl-AW on May 30, 2025, 03:08:31 PM
Do you remember how many people were playing AWME at EA when it was free?
I jumped in several times and never saw more than a dozen people playing and not a single one was some one I knew. I think Air Warrior being in decline based on old 1987 spaghetti code was a contributing factor not just EA being EAvil (But Ya EA was still being EAvil).
But Ya ... Letting AH go to some one like EA would be a very bad thing for us. Again I pray HT would give us a heads up and chance to intervene if that ever comes close to happening.
Agreed AW needed a complete overhaul to get into a new engine. This is not the same extreme. EA became the villain because they promised, mostly to us staff, that they would put it on track. They bought an audience. They lost because that audience wasn’t there for there other games, which was part of the intent. Everyone lost, except Kelton.
AH still has a window if chance porting to UR engine.
The way some here picture the game I’m not so sure it would be better.
This free stuff is absurd, at best. Who gets paid for server maintenance, connection fees ? These are thoughts from people who think it’s all free it should be free so they afford the others.. Its absurd, hands down. Oh at about those updates, anyone who thinks thise are free is not thinking at all.
AW being free changed ZERO. They just want to afford multi games, which are more expensive and therefore AH should be free. $15 is too expensive is far beyond ridiculous. You can’t afford .50 cents per day, but can afford 100s in other games. Nonsense. Every one who wants it free play multi games, thats their fault.
You will all be invoiced for my thoughts < runs>
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Ramesis on May 30, 2025, 03:18:13 PM
Be careful what you wish for. We were all very excited about EA buying up "Air Warriors" back in the day. New money coming in, talk of new graphics with a big company behind it. I dont think the ink was dry after they bought it and word came down they were closing down the game.
I remember this! I was so disappointed when Air Warriors was shut down.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Mayhem on May 30, 2025, 03:45:26 PM
EA's Original EAvil Plan for Air Warrior was to develop it into Air Warrior:Vietnam
They sprung it on us Kesmai/Gamestorm staff at a lunch at the Red Robin in South San Fransisco on day 2 of Awcon 98.
Not many people where happy with the idea of Air Warrior leaving the WWII Genre of Combat flight sims. EA wanted something that could be a MMO Falcon 4/Air Warrior hybrid.
What EA did with Air warrior was take Air Warrior III integrate the Krait's skin changer and call it Air Warrior Millennial Eddition and made it Free to play ... even that couldn't stop people from leaving for Warbirds WWII Online and Aces High specially when it dropped from $30 to $15 per month.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Animl-AW on May 30, 2025, 05:42:55 PM
I remember those details now. You were closer to the center than myself. Everything we wanted to preserve would be gutted. It wouldn’t even resemble AW. IMO, AH was the upgrade we wanted. But stars did align against us.
I think my point could be, we seen all of this before. Its more educated guessing.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: CptTrips on May 30, 2025, 05:55:27 PM
Not many people where happy with the idea of Air Warrior leaving the WWII Genre of Combat flight sims.
Which I would expect.
I will be interested to see how the IL2 crowd handles most of the dev bandwidth leaving WWII and moving on to Korea and Beyond.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Animl-AW on May 30, 2025, 06:52:47 PM
Korea has always been a losing concept.
As much as I liked the F-86 in AW, that was generally a vacant arena. I've yet to see a Korea idea takeoff. Yet everyone thinks they will be the ones that pull it off. Like goldfish in a fish bowl, ya they couldn't get through the last 300 times they tried, there's a reason for that. There are very little Korea enthusiast.
There are still enough WWII enthusiast to stuff the game that does it right.
Kinda like SUVs, "every one is buying them now" (flying jets). Well ya, because that's all you offer. Buick doesn't even make sedans anymore, using the same excuse, where's the choice. 6-7 planes sure isn't it.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: BAD1051 on May 30, 2025, 07:23:37 PM
Well...maybe...hopefully....Dale has been working on a new game...that uses new/more modern graphics engine. And just before its ready to go online...he sells Aces High. I have not seen another game that does WW2 as well as AH3 does it. I'm not saying that there aren't any issues in Aces High...just none good enough or bad enough for me to switch.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Mongoose on May 30, 2025, 09:40:03 PM
If Hitech ever goes to sell the game IP to some one say like EA I pray to God he gives us a heads up and maybe a chance to offer some sort of counter offer to keep AH3 Going.
Hitech went a similar route many years ago. It didn't go well at all. I doubt Hitech would even consider such a proposition today at all.
Suggesting that someone else would do a better job is grossly insulting.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Mayhem on May 30, 2025, 10:16:00 PM
Suggesting that someone else would do a better job is grossly insulting.
Insulting to who? You? Hitech?
and I wasn't suggesting some one else can do it better, Just as long as they can keep it alive and going if Hitech decides enough is enough.
Somethings you may want to consider ...
The game is in decline ... without a new game engine or at least a major overhaul AH3 numbers will continue to decline.
At some point AH3 will become unprofitable.
At some point Hitech is going to retire and want to spend more time with the kids/grand kids.
And inevitably just like the rest of us he is going to fly west someday (Hopefully far far in the future).
I don't think any one is concerned with making it better ... I will happy if it just continues to exist. If some one like EAvil gets a hold of the IP it will probably sit in a filing cabinet right next to Air Warrior for all eternity and no one wants that.
The best things about Aces High, unlike DCS and IL2, is its a TRUE MASS MULTI-PLAYER Combat flight sim and it has one hell of a tight community that you can't find anywhere else not even in DCS nor IL2. It is also for all intents and purposes the spiritual successor to Air Warrior and the Old Air Warrior community that goes all the back to 1987.
I would like to see it survive for as long as possible even if it's running on a Threadripper in some ones closet.
(I wonder how much EAvil would sell the Air Warrior Name/IP for?)
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Animl-AW on May 30, 2025, 11:19:02 PM
Hitech went a similar route many years ago. It didn't go well at all. I doubt Hitech would even consider such a proposition today at all.
Suggesting that someone else would do a better job is grossly insulting.
I don’t think at all that anyone thinks someone can do better. HT is a top shelf coder. However, the lack of movement gives an expected illusion that the only way to get movement and save this history is someone buy it. An army has offered to help, we just get crickets, so ya can’t really blame em for that perspective.
If he and the concept or game play wasn’t good we wouldn’t be here. Its good enough that many have a white knuckle death grip on it,…for 25 yrs.
Frankly, I think HT may have problems giving it up.
My take on the genre situation,…these other games used graphics to carry them, game play is O K. Since outdated, AH gameplay and selection has carried it, not so much graphics.
IF you put the same or even better (because those game’s graphics are aging too) modern graphics, you have both worlds, at the right time. Combat Pilot is not in the window yet.
Just upping the poly count, new effects, would go a long way, and could afford the throttle to go full tilt.
Its been stagnate out there as far as New goes. The above could beat Combat Pilot to the race. And pass them while they kick start. IMO, the next year is a good window to justify the effort.
Of course my crystal ball is cracked
All that said, as stated, we watched the AW ship pass by. No bug or setting matters when that happens. You’ll wish you had all of them.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Drane on May 31, 2025, 04:27:11 AM
No!
Imagine if this nut crowd got control of the game.
Just...NO!!!
HT is the only thing holding it together for us to enjoy.
Whiners would make it crash and burn.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: JimmyD3 on May 31, 2025, 08:23:38 AM
I have to agree with Drane on this. Hitech IS the glue that holds this together. I don't see him selling it or relinquishing control. :airplane:
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: caldera on May 31, 2025, 08:27:31 AM
Perhaps because HT saw what happened, when George Lucas sold Star Wars to a wretched hive of scum and villainy. :bhead
He also saw what changing hands of AW did to it.
I think we just want graphics to help draw players, many are fine the way its still here, myself included. I don’t think we want the core changed, a new owner probably would, the problem is some can’t keep their hands off settings. Not so sure players could hold that line. A person who knows how to use the word No is required.
I think the likes of UR engine would give it future. I think AH is a proprietary engine. I’m not aware of its limits, if any.
I think the coding should stay locked up like the Kentucky Fried Chicken recipe. Just change newer graphics to draw new players.
All talk, I’m not sure he’d give it up that easy. When someone wants to buy your car you don’t want to sell that price skyrockets.
I think we just hope in unity HT gets a second wind, like some of us, and tackle graphics, nothing else. It just needs a fresh face. >IMO<
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Meatwad on May 31, 2025, 10:43:32 AM
All the other help was laid off a long time ago. I highly doubt anyone new will get hired
That was due to covid. Things change. Hopefully Hitech gets the urge to join back in, either in the game, or in the business. Maybe he his a halfway point and hires a kid to get the graphics tuned up.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Meatwad on May 31, 2025, 01:32:23 PM
I really have my doubts anything new will ever happen to the game. As long as its bringing a profit and its functional, there will never be anything happening. After all the years, it looks like he just simply doesn't care anymore other then leave it on autopilot
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Spikes on May 31, 2025, 01:38:56 PM
That was due to covid. Things change. Hopefully Hitech gets the urge to join back in, either in the game, or in the business. Maybe he his a halfway point and hires a kid to get the graphics tuned up.
Well before covid I believe. Skuzzy retired in 2018? Waffle came back briefly to finish the P-38s.
After all the years, it looks like he just simply doesn't care anymore
I genuinely don't understand when people say this like it's a problem. Why is this a problem? HT is in his 60s? I don't think you'd appreciate being told/forced to be worked to the bone until you're 95.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Meatwad on May 31, 2025, 01:45:30 PM
There comes a point where the playerbase should be told if the game will never be updated, never any additions, bug fixes, or support. That it is simply just "there" until the plug is pulled. Be truthful and not gives false hopes the game will ever be anything more then a shell of what it once was.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Eagler on May 31, 2025, 01:51:42 PM
There comes a point where the playerbase should be told if the game will never be updated, never any additions, bug fixes, or support. That it is simply just "there" until the plug is pulled. Be truthful and not gives false hopes the game will ever be anything more then a shell of what it once was.
Hoping we try 2 sides instead of 3 b4 it goes away as I think it would be an improvement
Eagler
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: CptTrips on May 31, 2025, 02:00:59 PM
There comes a point where the playerbase should be told if the game will never be updated, never any additions, bug fixes, or support. That it is simply just "there" until the plug is pulled. Be truthful and not gives false hopes the game will ever be anything more then a shell of what it once was.
Well you know I don't pull my punches.
I wouldn't say HT has been misleading in anyway. He posted on the company website that development is pretty much done.
I don't expect him to sell AHIII. I would expect him to keep it running the closet as a fixed annuity.
I expect him to maintain it operationally and make minor changes to support. I expect he would address anything game breaking bug wise.
It appears he is still response to support calls. I wouldn't expect that to change, though I might put in some Level help system and try and handle as much via emails which allows him to time-shift his responses to what is convenient if it is not an emergency. Finding volunteer and working out some kind of shift schedule to handle lvl 1 support calls would be a good way to help. The AHIII Discord would be a perfect vehicle for that. For example look at how a company like Fox3 handles it. They have Discord bots that you submit a ticket and it gets forwarded to the support person on shift and they DM back and start the support process. Only lvl 3 stuff should get to HT. Let him chill or go work on something more interesting or something for the future.
Other than that, enjoy the scenarios and FSO. Those are the only things that AH really dominates in the current market.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: CptTrips on May 31, 2025, 02:08:26 PM
Hoping we try 2 sides instead of 3 b4 it goes away as I think it would be an improvement
As much as I wish AH had been designed from the start to support either a 2-3 sided area, I can fully imagine at this point the assumption being too universally intertwined all through the current logic. I can accept that at this point it would be far too difficult and carry far to much technical risk to attempt that level of re-write. At least in an area with strat\base capture\win-the-War.
Stuff like continuing to right-size maps, 3 month welcome back trial periods, 1 month regular trial period, FTP sub-set inclusion, would be much more realistic changes.
$0.02.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Animl-AW on May 31, 2025, 02:59:02 PM
Well, all true. Not bashing at all, but to be fair, when he posted what he'd been through for 1.5 yrs, why he hadn't finished something, he also stated he hoped to get back to dev soon. People hang on to that stuff. Part of the reason I thought it's worth promoting, it always is worth it, just sayin. There are kinda mixed signals.
A pipe dream of updating the graphics wouldn't have to be all on him other than, ok them, and insert them, like FX. Whatever format it uses. My idea aside from a new engine, was that very little was on him to do, I can do FX, if I knew the correct size and format. It's not "needed" but it fresh look is always nice.
Also player need to keep in mind a major graphics update would lose some old time players as their current PC may have issues pulling it. It's another careful what you wish for if you don't get a replacement surge.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: AKIron on May 31, 2025, 04:54:22 PM
I'll always be a C. Those that know, know.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Banshee7 on May 31, 2025, 05:09:30 PM
Perhaps Hitech could hire some "kid" to write his coad for him......
I pitched the idea several months ago to partner with a local high school. The county school I teach at in the middle of a vastly rural area has coding classes, and our school is constantly partnering with local businesses to get the kids experience AND bring in fresh ideas. It's a win/win. Surely there are larger, more advanced/funded schools near him that could do that. With HT's experience and oversight of course. He has decades of experience that he could share. IDK. Just an idea I've pondered on before.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: CptTrips on May 31, 2025, 06:35:28 PM
Ads? Hmmm. Lets game it out. I shall consult the Oracle:
Quote
You said:
Good evening Giptpy. If I am considering an single evening test ad buy on national media platform during US prime-time. Let’s say The History Channel.
Given current media rate and assuming:
1% conversion rate. Each acquired customer will produce a 6 month subscription at $15 a month gross revenue.
Is there any reasonable possibility of a positive ROI there?
ChatGPT said: Good evening. Let’s run the numbers carefully to assess whether a single evening national ad buy during U.S. prime time on The History Channel could potentially result in a positive ROI, using your assumptions:
Your Assumptions: Platform: National TV (e.g., History Channel, U.S. prime time)
ROI = ($450,000 - $10,000) / $10,000 = 4,400% return
✅ Massively profitable — but only if 1% of viewers convert.
The Real Question: Will You Really Get a 1% Conversion Rate From Cold National TV? In reality:
TV cold ad conversion rates are usually far lower: 0.01% to 0.1% is more typical.
A 1% conversion rate is exceptionally high for a cold national TV spot unless:
The product is hyper-targeted and compelling to that audience
The call to action is strong and frictionless (e.g., QR code or SMS)
It’s part of a larger campaign, not just a one-off
Let’s Try a More Realistic Conversion Rate: 0.05% Case 2: $10,000 Ad Buy 500,000 viewers × 0.05% = 250 conversions
Revenue: 250 × $90 = $22,500
ROI = ($22,500 - $10,000) / $10,000 = 125% return
⚠️ Still profitable, but requires VERY efficient execution
Summary: Conversion Rate Revenue (500k reach) ROI on $10k ad 1.0% $450,000 +4,400% 0.1% $45,000 +350% 0.05% $22,500 +125% 0.01% $4,500 –55% loss
✅ Conclusion: YES, a positive ROI is possible under your assumptions, but only if you can achieve a conversion rate of 0.05% or better.
A 1% conversion rate is extremely optimistic for a cold national TV spot unless you have a proven offer, landing page, and call-to-action funnel already optimized.
Would you like help modeling the breakeven point or evaluating which networks/media platforms are best aligned with your target audience?
You said: No thank you. Not at the moment.
ChatGPT said: You're welcome! If you ever want to revisit it or test other platforms or formats (like YouTube, OTT, or podcast ads), feel free to reach out. Have a great evening.
Shrug. I'd expect the last case to probably be the most likely base case. Maybe if you are very lucky, break-even. My bet would be some species of loss.
If the OP has money burning a hole in their pocket, let them volunteer to buy a weeks worth of media ads as a donation to The Cause.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Yarbles on May 31, 2025, 06:36:04 PM
Is the starting point asking HT how much he would sell for ?
I would imagine several years profit from a diminishing asset.
I would suggest there might be a collapse point. Say peak below 60 then it essentially disappears or are we close already?
We need someone who has a son/daughter or grandson/daughter who has just graduated from business school and knows at what point these things cease to be viable.
That might be an opportunity :headscratch:
There must be 10's of thousands of past subscribers. What is needed is someone young with energy and vision to take it on. When you start a business as a young fella you wake up in the morning and go to sleep at night thinking about how to make it work. I suspect High Tech spends maybe 30 minutes a day thinking about AH and all of that is maintenance.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: CptTrips on May 31, 2025, 06:39:04 PM
Is the starting point asking HT how much he would see for ?
I would imagine several years profit from a diminishing asset.
Challengers brother had showed interest at one time. I wonder if he ever contacted HT directly. Dunno. You might reach out to him and see if he did and got a response.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Yarbles on May 31, 2025, 07:13:00 PM
I thought about it for 10 minutes :D For every new subscriber the existing players introduce give them 50% of the sub to their account assuming I suspect 1 extra subscriber costs next to nothing say 25% in the second year.
There are loads of ways to market cheaply and the greatest cheep resource is the existing long term customers. Its not necessarily the answer but there are lots of options no doubt but I suspect zero effort is now going into growing the business currently.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: CptTrips on May 31, 2025, 07:16:22 PM
There comes a point where the playerbase should be told if the game will never be updated, never any additions, bug fixes, or support. That it is simply just "there" until the plug is pulled. Be truthful and not gives false hopes the game will ever be anything more then a shell of what it once was.
Just to be clear, I was referring to this page: https://www.hitechcreations.com/flight-simulators/2278-what-s-changing-with-our-combat-simulator-aces-high-in-2023 (https://www.hitechcreations.com/flight-simulators/2278-what-s-changing-with-our-combat-simulator-aces-high-in-2023)
Perhaps that is open to interpretation, but I read that as, yeah, don't expect and real advance me like AH had it it's prime. Those were heady days.
I don't expect more of the rare French fighter plane someone begs for in the Wishlist to be added. Or any other plane for that matter.
I don't expect there to be any re-write of the 3 country model to support a two country Melee.
I don't expect anything to be remodeled 3-d or art wise. In a perfect world would last time they did that upgrade they might have hopefully created a super hig hres high ploy perfect version and then decimated the poly count down to the current level so they still have the super res version sitting in the bit-safe for some future use. IT would be nice if somewhere there was a God-Mode poly count copy of every plane and cockpit just waiting to be unleashed by Vulkan. Same with textures. I hope every texture and skin they have has an 8k mother version and the reduced version they are working with now. Those aspirations are probably pipe dreams. If they don't exist now waiting for use, then I'm not expecting to ever see them.
I think there are certain design decisions that HT has set in stone and will never flex on. That limits the possible solution sets worth spending time to consider.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Leisure on May 31, 2025, 08:40:24 PM
I pitched the idea several months ago to partner with a local high school. The county school I teach at in the middle of a vastly rural area has coding classes, and our school is constantly partnering with local businesses to get the kids experience AND bring in fresh ideas. It's a win/win. Surely there are larger, more advanced/funded schools near him that could do that. With HT's experience and oversight of course. He has decades of experience that he could share. IDK. Just an idea I've pondered on before.
Very cool and a compelling idea to me. What language(s) do high school students start out with these days? My guess is Python and maybe Java?
I learned a bit of BASIC back in high school and I wished I'd kept at it. Instead, I opted for a course called "Baseball Science" which was secretly mandatory for the baseball team and taught by our coach. I honed my Charlie Lau batting principles and learned to chew tobacco like Rod Carew and Tony Gwynn instead of learning something worthy.
Good on ya for getting the students involved with businesses allowing them to gain real life skills and experience.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: hazmatt on June 01, 2025, 09:15:55 AM
As much as I liked the F-86 in AW, that was generally a vacant arena. I've yet to see a Korea idea takeoff. Yet everyone thinks they will be the ones that pull it off. Like goldfish in a fish bowl, ya they couldn't get through the last 300 times they tried, there's a reason for that. There are very little Korea enthusiast.
This depends heavily on the number of players in the game. I see more Mig15s and F86s in my current game then you can shake a stick at any time of day I log in.
I think that the difference that many don't take into account with IL2 is it has a robust offline game where you escort bombers and shoot up enemy tanks and stuff and although it may not be our cup of tea, it makes up a good deal of IL2 customers.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: hazmatt on June 01, 2025, 09:27:33 AM
I think the coding should stay locked up like the Kentucky Fried Chicken recipe. Just change newer graphics to draw new players. >IMO<
I don't know why this keeps coming up. I have read many of the reviews on AH on steam and other places and very few complaints are about the graphics. Many complaints are about the subscription that you guys will defend until the death. I find it interesting that I get attacked personally ever time I bring up this data that is plain to see IF you want to see it.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Animl-AW on June 01, 2025, 10:08:28 AM
I don't know why this keeps coming up. I have read many of the reviews on AH on steam and other places and very few complaints are about the graphics. Many complaints are about the subscription that you guys will defend until the death. I find it interesting that I get attacked personally ever time I bring up this data that is plain to see IF you want to see it.
My friend, I’m nit sure why the reasoning is not sinking in, like the 2 country stuff. Its repeats of repeats.
Retain and recall ;)
In a single game company on a single set of servers, where dies the money come to afford system maintenance, connection fees, labor for updates, the list continues. Is Dale suppose to just pay out of his pocket for our enjoyment while his family starves? Because he’d gave to get a job and not have time for everything we beg for. It would shut down the next day. Because that’s what I would do. Sorry, no offense, but its an absurd request.
It’s like asking a restaurant to make food and service free.
Thats not a biz, its a charity. But hey, enjoy that 10 min Starbucks every day, or those 2-3 other games.
An arcade game cost .50 for 5 min.
Sorry, but bad rapping .50 per 24 hrs doesn’t even register in my head. - retiree on fixed income.
Now that we explained this again we’ll flip back to the Mod thing as the reason, of course keeping the game in a negative light seems to be the true drive.
Kinda like a junky who’s not addicted to the drug, but the needle.
Aren’t these two repeat subjects just reason to hold a negative light. We will repeat this as if it was the first time spoken.
In the entertainment world, I’ve seen every dbl talk, embellishment, con and lie ever invented.
Come on now, the subject is just a vehicle.:)
AW the sim king, going free did not save it. It didn’t even move the needle
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: The Fugitive on June 01, 2025, 10:20:41 AM
I don't know why this keeps coming up. I have read many of the reviews on AH on steam and other places and very few complaints are about the graphics. Many complaints are about the subscription that you guys will defend until the death. I find it interesting that I get attacked personally ever time I bring up this data that is plain to see IF you want to see it.
EVE Online Genres: Massively multiplayer online role-playing game, Strategy video game, Action ...
Ultima Online Genres: Massively multiplayer online role-playing game
Dragon Quest X Genres: Massively multiplayer online role-playing game, Adventure game, Action game ...
Second Life Genres: Virtual world, Massively multiplayer online role-playing game
Star Wars: The Old Republic Genres: Massively multiplayer online role-playing game, Adventure game, Free To Play ...
All subscription based games. Some pretty big players there too. Subscription based games are not done, it is alive and well in the gaming industry.
What Ive found in my meager attempts to get the "Aces High" name out there many have either never heard of it, or didnt think it was still around, after all 20+ years is a heck of a run for a game. :aok I think what is needed is just to get the word out there. I love when a commercial pops up on FB for "War Thunder". They leave the posting option on so I post :devil I post how AH is so much better with 24/7 continuing battles going on and for a monthly fee you get ALL the planes and vehicles. I know a few players have come over from those posts. The same goes for reddit. Most of those guys that were interested didnt know about or think AH was still available. I havn't posted there in a while due to a rule about having to post in other threads to earn the right to open new threads. EVERYONE needs to get the word out there.
Now, could HTC run a "sale"? It would have to be tied in with one of those gamers influencers. Get them to run a video about AH and with a coad get the first 3 months at $9.95 a month like most TV subscriptions, everyone has a crap load of them :D Maybe do something similar on Steam.
But again the whole thing relies on Hitech WANTING to get the game rolling again. At this point he has "Greebo" doing the skins approval process, he has "Kenai", "Kong" and others doing the maps, and the Scenario guys building and running all the events and posting the points/scores, and "Spikes" on the webpage updates. For all that stuff he is pretty much hands off until its all put together then he adds it to the game. Someone mentioned hes in his 60's and maybe he doesnt want to be bothered any more. I can understand this. I spent years repairing vending machines including pinballs and loved the challenge of it. I retired over a year ago and can say I dont miss it..... well except "testing" the pinballs :x For those of us addicted to the game we hopr Hitech comes back, but in reality it most likely isnt going to happen. The best we can do is do what we can to get the word out there, hope one of us wins the lottery, and just enjoy what we have for as long as we can. I know I will continue to push for AH, I'll keep making videos, I'll keep posting help and adding to my "help" page as things come up. At 67, Im still going to do what little I can for Aces High, how about you?
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Shane on June 01, 2025, 10:23:10 AM
Is Dale suppose to just pay out of his pocket for our enjoyment while his family starves? Because he’d gave to get a job and not have time for everything we beg for.
It’s like asking a restaurant to make food and service free.
Thats not a biz, its a charity.
Now that we explained this again we’ll flip back to the Mod thing as the reason, of course keeping the game in a negative light seems to be the true drive.
Kinda like a junky who’s not addicted to the drug, but the needle.
ding! I'm okay with former players keeping in touch with friends and interesting things - but keep them placed appropriately in the o'club. :aok
Keep the bitter trolling from ex-players about free stuff or eye candy in the appropriate forums - wishlist. :aok
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Animl-AW on June 01, 2025, 10:23:41 AM
BTW i see the good cop bad cop uniform switches to maintain relevance.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Animl-AW on June 01, 2025, 10:31:30 AM
.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: hazmatt on June 01, 2025, 11:20:24 AM
My friend, I’m nit sure why the reasoning is not sinking in, like the 2 country stuff. Its repeats of repeats.
Retain and recall ;)
In a single game company on a single set of servers, where dies the money come to afford system maintenance, connection fees, labor for updates, the list continues. Is Dale suppose to just pay out of his pocket for our enjoyment while his family starves? Because he’d gave to get a job and not have time for everything we beg for. It would shut down the next day. Because that’s what I would do. Sorry, no offense, but its an absurd request.
It’s like asking a restaurant to make food and service free.
Thats not a biz, its a charity. But hey, enjoy that 10 min Starbucks every day, or those 2-3 other games.
An arcade game cost .50 for 5 min.
Sorry, but bad rapping .50 per 24 hrs doesn’t even register in my head. - retiree on fixed income.
Now that we explained this again we’ll flip back to the Mod thing as the reason, of course keeping the game in a negative light seems to be the true drive.
Kinda like a junky who’s not addicted to the drug, but the needle.
Aren’t these two repeat subjects just reason to hold a negative light. We will repeat this as if it was the first time spoken.
In the entertainment world, I’ve seen every dbl talk, embellishment, con and lie ever invented.
Come on now, the subject is just a vehicle.:)
AW the sim king, going free did not save it. It didn’t even move the needle
I think you're missing my point brother. What I'm saying is that the major complaint is the sub, not the graphics and I think if there was another option that it would get around the most common complaint of the sub and bring in new players. I don't think a major upgrade in graphics will bring convince the people who are commenting about the sub.
Maybe set it up o you could buy planes with a credit card like IL2 (you could buy your favorite plane and fly it all the time) or maybe a premium account like in war thunder (premium account if you want to get perk points) Progresion. Maybe you can buy into a line of aircraft (say British) You start with the mk I hurricane and progress to the mk II and then the spitfire mk I.
I never said the game should be completely free to play. I've been saying that if it is going to compete for players that the biggest complaint I have read was about the sub and now that I've seen what I can get out there without a sub I understand why people are saying that.
I guess the thing I don't understand is this. The current model is not bringing in new players, however people appear to want to defend the model that is not working until the death and then wonder why nothing changes.
I try to bring an outside perspective to the game. For that I get personally attacked with comments like I can't afford .50 cents a day. I can but I choose not to because of this and other factors in the game I'm pretty sure that at this point I won't come back even if the entire game became free to play. Somebody recently posted how they saved over $1,400 in subscription fees since they left.
Repeating the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome... You guys talk about wanting to grow the game but can't seem to see the forest for the trees.
It's fine. Go ahead and attack me. You can join Shame on my ignore list. I've gotten to the point where I pretty much only log on and read stuff here when I get an email that say I have a PM anyways :)
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: hazmatt on June 01, 2025, 11:32:48 AM
Second Life Genres: Virtual world, Massively multiplayer online role-playing game
Star Wars: The Old Republic Genres: Massively multiplayer online role-playing game, Adventure game, Free To Play ...
All subscription based games. Some pretty big players there too. Subscription based games are not done, it is alive and well in the gaming industry.
What Ive found in my meager attempts to get the "Aces High" name out there many have either never heard of it, or didnt think it was still around, after all 20+ years is a heck of a run for a game. :aok I think what is needed is just to get the word out there. I love when a commercial pops up on FB for "War Thunder". They leave the posting option on so I post :devil I post how AH is so much better with 24/7 continuing battles going on and for a monthly fee you get ALL the planes and vehicles. I know a few players have come over from those posts. The same goes for reddit. Most of those guys that were interested didnt know about or think AH was still available. I havn't posted there in a while due to a rule about having to post in other threads to earn the right to open new threads. EVERYONE needs to get the word out there.
Now, could HTC run a "sale"? It would have to be tied in with one of those gamers influencers. Get them to run a video about AH and with a coad get the first 3 months at $9.95 a month like most TV subscriptions, everyone has a crap load of them :D Maybe do something similar on Steam.
But again the whole thing relies on Hitech WANTING to get the game rolling again. At this point he has "Greebo" doing the skins approval process, he has "Kenai", "Kong" and others doing the maps, and the Scenario guys building and running all the events and posting the points/scores, and "Spikes" on the webpage updates. For all that stuff he is pretty much hands off until its all put together then he adds it to the game. Someone mentioned hes in his 60's and maybe he doesnt want to be bothered any more. I can understand this. I spent years repairing vending machines including pinballs and loved the challenge of it. I retired over a year ago and can say I dont miss it..... well except "testing" the pinballs :x For those of us addicted to the game we hopr Hitech comes back, but in reality it most likely isnt going to happen. The best we can do is do what we can to get the word out there, hope one of us wins the lottery, and just enjoy what we have for as long as we can. I know I will continue to push for AH, I'll keep making videos, I'll keep posting help and adding to my "help" page as things come up. At 67, Im still going to do what little I can for Aces High, how about you?
I'm confused. You said these are subscription game but some say free to play in the title and my kids play mine craft and I don't pay a subscription for that.
I've posted on other games forums like IL2 promoting AH and events like sceneros. It comes up from time to time in the games I currently play but the discussion seems to stop as soon as the sub is mentioned. I do what I can :)
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Spikes on June 01, 2025, 11:47:37 AM
I'm confused. You said these are subscription game but some say free to play in the title and my kids play mine craft and I don't pay a subscription for that.
Yeah, Overwatch and PUBG are also F2P.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Shane on June 01, 2025, 12:15:50 PM
What I'm saying is that the major complaint is the sub, not the graphics and I think if there was another option that it would get around the most common complaint of the sub and bring in new players. I don't think a major upgrade in graphics will bring convince the people who are commenting about the sub.
I try to bring an outside perspective to the game. For that I get personally attacked with comments like I can't afford .50 cents a day. I can but I choose not to because of this and other factors in the game I'm pretty sure that at this point I won't come back even if the entire game became free to play. Somebody recently posted how they saved over $1,400 in subscription fees since they left.
It's fine. Go ahead and attack me. You can join Shame on my ignore list.
tl;dnr - The true challenge facing AH is the persistent-world model lacking a (free) chew your way thru the "tech tree ladder" aspect. And it's not gonna change.
:rolleyes: $15*12 = $180/year for a subscription. Either that person left almost 8 years ago, or had multiple accounts (unlikely.) Weird flex. There have been periods lasting years where I wasn't p(l)aying... easily exceeding that $1400 - I guess I used all those savings to upgrade my gear and renew my subscription for the past few years. Smart, aren't I? :aok And I can still play WT for free if I wanted!
You can ignore me, but not the fact you're just passive-aggressively troll-whinging at this point.
You're failing to understand (like many things about this game) that it is on auto-pilot. Numerous people have commented on the realities of this.
Nothing stops you freeloaders from running custom arenas, using any number of maps you might like, keeping MA settings, even. Seeing action there might actually attract people curious to check it out and may even end up staying and potentially paying. :aok
Yet you don't... :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Animl-AW on June 01, 2025, 12:30:35 PM
Look Haz.
It's dirty marketing, it's purely mental.
Yes, subs seems to be a problem to some, but some also refuse basic math. Marketing won.
I looked into IL-2 last week, I figured, by the time I buy a part of the game and a plane I was already over a 1 yr sub for AH. I might not even play it for 2 months, I may not like it.
"Ya, but I get this for life" cool, if you play it for life then it paid off. What if you spend 2k for planes and gear upgrade and end up only playing for 2 years,.. you just spent 5 times the money. 2 yrs AH $360.
$4k for 25 years of playing non-stop 24/7, that's a deal, compared to above.
The problem is, we have a problem convincing people that their math sucks, or non-existent at all.
How is HT going to pay his bills and game bills if he has no idea if he will sell any planes this month? The game will die much faster.
What's an AH plane worth? See people have ideas they don't put through the grinder. I do it myself sometimes, speak first grinder later, my bad.
I'm not defending subs as much as what is a better system that pays for the game to remain alive and HT make a living/retirement?
People from IL travel to IN to buy gas .50 to $1 cheaper,... they drive 10 + miles. The gas and time they burned to get here just zeroed any savings, and they keep doing it anyway. <blank stare> Totally moot. they MAY have saved $1-$2, MAYBE. Some people just too lazy minded to do basic math.
stepping over $1 to pick up a dime.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Eagler on June 01, 2025, 12:41:37 PM
HT discusses the price...
:cheers:
Eagler
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: hazmatt on June 01, 2025, 01:06:24 PM
"Ya, but I get this for life" cool, if you play it for life then it paid off. What if you spend 2k for planes and gear upgrade and end up only playing for 2 years,.. you just spent 5 times the money. 2 yrs AH $360.
About the math. "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics. I think we could both come up with "facts" to support our opinions.
I don't think I've spent $360 on all of my IL2 accounts (I have 4) and planes (I don't have all the planes on all accounts but I pretty much have all the planes I want spread across all of my accounts. I have no idea how you could get to $2k even buying everything that IL2 has to offer at full price. Maybe this is possible in DCS?
The thing is that IL2 GB stuff goes on sale many times a year with sometimes 75% off so those $19 planes are less then $5. Those $89 combos I've seen for $19.99 or even 14.99. Once you get a map, you can fly on any server that has one of the planes you have enabled no matter what map the server is running. There is a lot of content you can access for a one time $50 investment. Granted you have to wait for the sales to get started otherwise it would cost you $50 to get started.
I think it's kind of like the guy that say WT is arcade like. Well, ya if you only play arcade mode it is very arcade like. If you buy into IL2 when it's not on sale it's going to cost you 75% more. That's one of the reasons I used to mention IL2 sales here is because of the massive savings you get.
All that said, I would love to see AH3 start getting new players again. I just get the feeling that nothing will change until it is too late. I think once AH3 gets down to 50 or lower during prime time that the chances of a new player wanting to spend the time to learn the ropes, pay the subscription fee and deal with the great big maps will pretty much get near zero. My hope is that something gets done before that happens as I could see it getting there within the next year or two.
BTW. I'm not a "disgruntled former player" as I've been called some times. Yes, I was disgruntled when I left but I got over it. I'm glad it happened as it gave me the chance to see what else is out there and based on that I've tried to relay back what I've seen to give some perspective from the outside.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Shane on June 01, 2025, 01:26:23 PM
About the math. "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics. I think we could both come up with "facts" to support our opinions.
I don't think I've spent $360 on all of my IL2 accounts (I have 4) and planes (I don't have all the planes on all accounts but I pretty much have all the planes I want spread across all of my accounts.
Once you get a map, you can fly on any server that has one of the planes you have enabled no matter what map the server is running. There is a lot of content you can access for a one time $50 investment. Granted you have to wait for the sales to get started otherwise it would cost you $50 to get started.
All that said, I would love to see AH3 start getting new players again.
BTW. I'm not a "disgruntled former player" as I've been called some times. Yes, I was disgruntled when I left but I got over it. I'm glad it happened as it gave me the chance to see what else is out there and based on that I've tried to relay back what I've seen to give some perspective from the outside.
Yet... despite all this cheap or free WW2 plane entertainment, you still keep coming back to lick the window here. Btw, who is paying for these servers and they come with capacity, amirite? Wonder if this has something to do with the subscription model that allows HT to run his own "Massively Multiplayer Server" instead of farming off to sketchy player servers with less robust net coding. I guess those "servers" can handle the traffic 5 or 6 people bring. :rofl
And yet, HTC offers the same player-hosted server capabilities with the entire plane and vehicle set available, also for free.... :rolleyes: BUT WAIT! THERE'S MORE!! This offered free feature still flows thru HTC servers with all that net code drip!
Yeah... it looks disgruntled trolling when you actually have apples to apples to compare.
Here's a free arena I set up using montis2 map (but not the updated one pending.) Anyone who has d/l (free) the game can do this. :rolleyes:
BTW. I'm not a "disgruntled former player" as I've been called some times. Yes, I was disgruntled when I left but I got over it.
To be fair I don't think you got over it, at least since May 21st when you last complained about the mods for seemingly the hundredth time since you got muted however many years ago.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: hazmatt on June 01, 2025, 03:21:41 PM
To be fair I don't think you got over it, at least since May 21st when you last complained about the mods for seemingly the hundredth time since you got muted however many years ago.
So when I agree with somebody who has stated something that I myself had experienced that is complaining?
Lets see if I follow your logic.
A guy who lives in the apartment complex where I used to live says: Yesterday we were sitting around listening to music in my apartment. The volume wasn't very loud but my neighbor called the cops and made a noise complaint and they knocked on my door about the music.
I respond. Ya, I had the same thing happen to me when I lived there so I moved out.
I would be complaining?
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Shane on June 01, 2025, 03:37:17 PM
So when I agree with somebody who has stated something that I myself had experienced that is complaining?
Lets see if I follow your logic.
A guy who lives in the apartment complex where I used to live says: Yesterday we were sitting around listening to music in my apartment. The volume wasn't very loud but my neighbor called the cops and made a noise complaint and they knocked on my door about the music.
I respond. Ya, I had the same thing happen to me when I lived there so I moved out.
So when I agree with somebody who has stated something that I myself had experienced that is complaining?
Lets see if I follow your logic.
A guy who lives in the apartment complex where I used to live says: Yesterday we were sitting around listening to music in my apartment. The volume wasn't very loud but my neighbor called the cops and made a noise complaint and they knocked on my door about the music.
I respond. Ya, I had the same thing happen to me when I lived there so I moved out.
I would be complaining?
Uh, yeah. If you are agreeing with someone and regurgitate your complaint from years back, it's still a complaint.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Animl-AW on June 01, 2025, 04:04:41 PM
Look Anytime someone repeats a multi-repeat convo/post that has been extensively addressed each time, as if the past repeats never happened…
1) they have cognitive issues to process, retain, recall 2) use a repeat beaten path to conflict or give negative attention 3) drinks or 420 too much
Yet all can be true at the same time. Stop with the repeats and ya won’t be accused of doing it with intent.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Mayhem on June 01, 2025, 04:11:31 PM
Star Wars: The Old Republic Genres: Massively multiplayer online role-playing game, Adventure game, Free To Play ...
I beta tested SWTOR. It was a Bioware game and based on Knight of The old republic I and II. SWTOR was Bioware's first MMO, When it went gold you had to pay $59.99 and $14.99 a month every month after the first month.
EA purchase Bioware and took over SWTOR at the legacy Bioware leadership started abandoning ship. EA made the game Fremuim F2P with Pay to win mechancis. They kept the subscription plan which provided you with some premium benefits and a handfull of Cartel Coins the ingame currency you buy with real cash.
The game become a Feces Fest and I left in 2015. My Kids took over the Damned(Empire)/Blessed(Republic) Guilds and I haven't played since.
The story is Pretty good but the multiplayer raids and Fremuim elements make the game suck now. Leave it to EAvil to screw the pooch on such a good thing (Sort of like what Disney did to the rest of the Star Wars Franchise).
Only decent game to come out of Star Wars as of late was Squadrons and I'm not sure how much longer the servers are going to stay up. I don't think they changed it so you can host your own games yet.
Most the other games in that list are Dead, F2P, Freemuim, and/or you just buy the game. Very few games keep a subscription model any more.
Fallout 76 requires that you buy the game then it forces a Freemuim model down your throat with Pay to Win mechanics and a subscition fee on top if you want certain "Promised" Features, like private servers.
Most the games I multi-play on now you just buy the game ... No subscription or microtansactions.
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: Animl-AW on June 01, 2025, 05:01:09 PM
Leary to ask
What do some think a reasonable price is for a just buy the game method?
May be a viable option.
Longevity of games that do?
Would that just force it to go to train wreck mini servers and no Massive Multiplayer server?
Title: Re: Crowd sourcing the funds to buy the game as an investment
Post by: hazmatt on June 01, 2025, 05:22:31 PM
Very cool and a compelling idea to me. What language(s) do high school students start out with these days? My guess is Python and maybe Java?
I learned a bit of BASIC back in high school and I wished I'd kept at it. Instead, I opted for a course called "Baseball Science" which was secretly mandatory for the baseball team and taught by our coach. I honed my Charlie Lau batting principles and learned to chew tobacco like Rod Carew and Tony Gwynn instead of learning something worthy.
Good on ya for getting the students involved with businesses allowing them to gain real life skills and experience.
I honestly have no idea. That department is on the complete opposite side of the building from me. I just know we have it. Our STEM program also works with local industries (Rough Country being a big one). We have roughly 1,200 students, and at least half of them will graduate with some sort of certification in computer science, STEM, or a trade.