Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: figaro on April 14, 2000, 04:56:00 AM
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Greetings all!
The object of this post is to attempt to add a little perspective on some of the recent nasty and silly (AH-other sim)crossboard postings.
I most certainly do not wish to offend, annoy, or otherwise bother ANYBODY with these words (well, except two persons). If this was the case, I would regret posting this, apologize, and not post on this board again. Just please hear me out for a few minutes.
I have been playing WB (poorly) on my MAC for the past three years. I donīt post much, but sometimes I enjoy reading the boards as much as playing. My enjoyment comes from the extraordinary knowledge, as well as style and humour that are VERY FREQUENT in these communities. Even the flaming and disagreements, in good measure, can be great fun.
As for gaming, my choice of OS has been a very, very serious handicap. I drool and get frustrated in software stores, but that is nothing compared to the drooling and frustration I feel at not being able to try AH on my MAC!
This sim rocks. I am thoroughly impressed by the community dynamics, the level of innovation and upgrading, and the extraordinary level of communication with the creators. I also LOVE tanks (no MAC tank simulator available), and would love to try something different than my trusted but old 2D warbirds terrain (MAC users sill fly in 2D over there).
I am frustrated, but am I pissed off? - most definetely not. I have chosen to use a minority platform, and thus have to suffer the consequences (there are also some compensations) The relative qualities of both OSīs are absolutely irrelevant to the question. I use a Mac because I like it, need it for professional reasons, and feel too old to change and relearn after using the thing since 1984. I will not switch, and I will bravely bear the consequences.
So where is the problem? Well, here goes:
1) A lot of people in my situation, perhaps with fewer years of age (not allways), are not only frustrated, but also angry because they canīt play AH. They feel somewhat entitled to equal treatment. I think that is wrong, but understandable. Donīt forget AH looks VERY attractive. If you have kids you will understand the reactions very well.
2) The appearance of AH has objectively reduced our enjoyment of our game (WB). Why? Simply because of the loss of PEOPLE. I feel a little tinge when I see so many exceptional pilots on this board. The name have been familiar to me for many years, and it is sad to realize they will not be shooting me down anymore (incidentally, I am doing much better in WB lately (Cause and effect?).
So what , you might ask? Nothing: -tough for all of us Macers, thatīs the way the market goes- There is little anybody can or should do about it. Maybe Linux will come before a Mac version! I just give you all points 1) and 2)as background for my next thoughts.
3) AH players inform and advertise on AGW: This is very good and understandable. Information has never hurt anybody (I donīt need them , I check this board a few times a week to see what I am missing). I would probably do the same thing in their shoes. BUT: the frequency, tone, and agressivness of these posts can be very offensive. Think of points 1) and 2)! Repeated threads on the excellency and superiority of AH do not, in my opinion, have an informative purpose. They are there to ANNOY. Is this necessary or positive? Why does it keep happening? You all know how easily people get p....d off (yeah, thats why you do it probably). Please, why donīt you limit this? Just tell us the great things AH is doing. But please stop dissing us. Itīs the only Sim we have!
4) There is one idiot around, and then another double idiot.
First the idiot: This "macboy" character is a serious disservice to both Mac users and WB players. I understand some of your reactions, and I think he is way out of line. There is no justification for what he is doing, and I hope he stops.
Now the double idiot: Some AH player uses the same name on AGW (MACBOY), to give the same treatment over there: offensive posts, and says : I will stop when you stop!
Jeeez... How mature and smart... and how stupid! AGW is a private board, and WB players do not get together and designate somebody to go post over here. Why try to hurt all for one idiot? This a....le doesnīt even have the brains to go post on the Ien board.
5) Remembrances of times past:
MAc users on WB now receive inferior service to those who use the majority platform (no 3D on a MAC), but in relative terms the level of support and quality of software for us has gone up very significantly since the current AH creators left WB. This is an objective fact, that does not take into account the eventual reasons that might have led to this (CALīs illness,availability of quality MAC programmers, etc...), but certainly colors some of our reactions. When Pyro et all where leading WB, I remember the support as being worse than anything you can imagine (much, much worse than the current WB support, which is poor but improving). Then I come over here and see something else! Extraordinary support and communication!
6) It is much easier to start a game from scratch than pick up on somebody elseīs code. Maybe thatīs part of the reason we feel HS and co. deserve a little break.
There. Sorry for boring you. There are a lot of things more important than the question I have just adressed, such as getting a good damage model (I mean it).
And of course all this is not about rights. Freedom of expression applies fully here. But what about a little consideration? (on both sides of course).
Thank you for your patience,
And let me pray for a Mac AH version some day. Unless WWIIOL comes out first of course, in which case I will probably be too busy to play AH OR WB, and this will all be moot.
Cheers and have fun!
figaro
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(http://thedam.com/cwm/smile/splarka/as-crash.gif)
<punt>
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A very thoughtful post and I appreciate your candor. Thank you for your maturity in this whole thing.
All I can say is I agree with just about everything you had posted above, and that I wish you the best. It would behoove some people to read and reflect upon your words - even I was, for awhile, quite antagonistic with the WB crowd.
Salute!
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leonid, Komandir
5 GIAP VVS RKKA (http://www.adamfive.com/guerrero)
"Our cause is just. The enemy will be crushed. Victory will be ours."
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First thing is do you have a G3 or bettter? If so have looked into Softwindows... and Virtual PC....
Now granted its software emulation but i have seen it work for variety of games with a alitttle proformance hit < 40%
If you have a New g4 or higher end g3 then you might be able to play....
Your best option as much as you hate it would be to shell out about 400-500 for new celron box... Get yourself a A+B swtich for your keyboard mouse and monitor and there you go, gaming box....You can even through on FreeBSD and get a taste of Mac OS Aqua... That is your smart enough to get xwindows going..Through BeOS SCO unix etc your choice..
I dont have the sub 500 option to buy into apple box... pretty crummy on apple's part... They tried clones and were so un organized the clones were hitting the market with more features at a cheaper price... So apple took its ball and went home.
Apple sucks by there own doing, the equipment is good,the company's leaders are pathetic.
Just my 2 cents on apples failure....
FlameON
DoctorYO
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Hi Figaro,
A very thoughtful post, and heartfelt, too. <S>
While I feel bad about our Mac bretheren not being able to play AH with us, I don't blame HTC for not wanting to get into that double platform mess again. They want to remain a small development company, and I applaud that decision. I work for IBM, but I would drop my job and work for a six person company like HTC in a heartbeat.
I resigned as CO of my Warbirds squad of four years just to fly AH. I didn't move the squad over with me because 1/3 were Mac users, and I didn't want them to feel abandoned by the rest of the squad.
It's a tough issue for the flight sim community to grapple with now, and unfortunately there are some jerks out there exascerbating the problem.
Anyway, just want to commend you on a fine thread. I'm sure many of us here feel the same way you do.
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banana
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
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Hope MACBOY reads this (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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What leonid said.
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MAc users on WB now receive inferior service to those who use the majority platform (no 3D on a MAC), but in relative terms the level of support and quality of software for us has gone up very significantly since the current AH creators left WB. This is an objective fact, that does not take into account the eventual reasons that might have led to this (CALīs illness,availability of quality MAC programmers, etc...), but certainly colors some of our reactions.
It bugs me when I see stuff like this. Hitech and Pyro put Cal's privacy and health above all else, and they're criticised for it. There just wasn't any news to tell at that time.
Ronni
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Veronica "Ronni" Newman
Sr. Programmer/Webmaster
HiTech Creations, Inc.
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Ronni, don't let it get to you, some customers think that they are the "Center of the Universe" and that all others should drop what their doing, and assist them. A legacy that (at least in the US) has dominated our social behavior for the last 40 years. IMO.
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Ripsnort(-rip1-)
I/JG2~Richthofen~
JG2 Communications Officer
Aces High Training Corps
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
(http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/ripsnort.jpg)
Turning Spitfires into Bud Lite cans since 1992
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 04-14-2000).]
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Ronni you have focused on the smallest, least important, and most delicate part of my post, and have interpreted it exactly in the opposite direction of what it says. Please read it again.
Wait, given your tone, you might need help:
quote:
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MAc users on WB now receive inferior service to those who use the majority platform (no 3D on a MAC), but in relative terms the level of support and quality of software for us has gone up very significantly since the current AH creators left WB.
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Thats just a fact. If you disagree, compare relative versions. If it bothers you, deal with it. Notice I do NOT criticize, nor mention reasons.
quote:
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This is an objective fact, that does not take into account the eventual reasons that might have led to this (CALīs illness,availability of quality MAC programmers, etc...).
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As this sentence says, when I state that Mac service was worse before (fact), I aknowledge that there might have been some very good reasons for it, which I also aknowledge and suggest (such as illness or the lack of programers).
NOWHERE IS THERE A SHADE OF A CRITICISM OF PYRO AND HITECH.
I will happily bear with negative people such as yourself, but will not remain silent when my words are severely misinterpreted and misquoted in a public forum which I respect and visit often.
Ms. "Sr. Programmer/Webmaster", you owe me an apology.
Now, for those who have really read my post, thanks a lot for your responses. I have a new G4/500, and am a bit wary of getting into the virtual PC stuff. Now, perhaps a box... hmmmm... With the same monitor and input devices... Thinking... Very important: Would it be easy to hide from my wife and daughters?
I also fully agree that Apple has dropped the ball real bad until recently. I am the first to suffer the consequences of their arrogance.
And I also think HT and Pyro made the right decision focusing on one platform at the beggining.
Good luck to AH, and have fun in the Panzer!
Cheers
figaro
P.S. Tell me, does it shake when it turns? Does the whole thing rock when it fires? Aaaah...
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I'm sorry you misunderstood my point, Figaro. I see this type of stuff about the unresponsiveness of the old team and it's something I've been wanting to vent about for quite a while now. You just happened to hit a nerve this morning, and frankly, I feel better having had my say. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) It wasn't directed at you, just the situation in general.
Ronni
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Veronica "Ronni" Newman
Sr. Programmer/Webmaster
HiTech Creations, Inc.
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figaro: Gentlemen like you make me sorry its not viable for us to do a mac version at this stage.
And welcome to our bb community.
HiTech
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Since Figaro has received responses from two HTC folks, could someone down there please ask Pyro to add his 2 cents to my thread entitled "Questions about plane additions in the future", please.
I was polite in my post, too, but have yet to receive any feedback.
Thanks,
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banana
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
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Figaro-
I think you summed up more eloquently than many of us why we need to be a bit careful how we approach AGW. S!
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"Does it shake when it turns? And does the whole thing rock when it fires?"
Well it shakes some all the time, the faster you go the more the gunsight bounces. It does loose some speed depending on how tight of a turn it makes. Is it just me or do the tracks seem to rattle more in a turn?
As to the whole thing moveing when a shot if fired, I'd say that is modeled VERY well.
It's there, it settles again by the time your ready to fire again. While not overdone, it certainly is there.
Any more questions?
With the current low prices for computers these days you should have no problem finding a box that will run AH for you. I'd strongly suggest that you give it a try.
As to Warbirds looseing all it's best pilots to AH. What can I say, I LOVE IT HERE!
Seems they do too!
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Figaro, check out the program called "orange PC." I've seen it in action and it works very well.
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bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
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Agree with DoctorYo
Figaro, it'll be better to you to get Celeron box and you'll be instantly able to play AH, WB 3D, etc.
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I abandoned AGW when I moved from WB to AH. I didn't see the point in posting AH news there, since it is available to WB players here. I'm sorry to learn that some have made themselves a pest, and hope that it doesn't last.
Figaro, you'll certainly be welcome in this community. Get a Celeron box, and jump in. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
popeye
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Group hug (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Why don't we support Amigas too? I'm sure there's still some people out there who refuse to purchase a decent/inexpensive/modern machine.
Heck while we are at it lets support: Atari, Collecovision, Commodore 64 and ooh how about those little pong consoles as well?
I find it extremely amusing that Mac users have to shove their "poor choice in purchasing" down developers throats. It's like purchasing a horse, and then getting pissed off that gas stations don't supply hay to feed your "advanced" mode of transporation.
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That was uncalled for HaHa.
There is no use becoming antagonistic to a mac user who shows up here and is polite to us. I am sure he is aware of all this and more besides.
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Tsss Tsss...haha ... I am a "no Mac please" fighter as well, but this gentlemen here seems to be nice and Civilised <G>
(Don't wory Figaro, haha has been shot at too many times today & plugged his pacemaker in the wrong plug (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif) ).
Box or Emulator will do it, We made Falcon 4 run on a Red hat, so if THAT worked...my bet is that you should be able to run it ...
Welcome to our BB & come here fast so that we can merilly shoot each other in the skies (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Saw
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I can only say that in a previous job, there was a bad time for all of us and we were all in a no-win situation. We had to suck up a lot of slings and arrows from that, but that's in the past now. It sucked, but way more for us there at the time than any of you. I like what we're doing now, what we're trying to achieve, and how we are structured. While many people think that having so small a staff is a handicap, we know that it is in fact a strength and that's why we are this way. We'd much rather be an Id than and Ion Storm type of company. While it's not my call on a future Mac version, my personal restraint in the matter is that more moving parts equals more things to go wrong. The economics aren't solely determined by the cost of having a Mac programmer and the revenue the Mac side produces.
I'm sorry too about some of the tirades other people put on because of the fact that we don't yet support a Mac version. I fail to see the logic behind it. We're going to produce a Mac version because lots of Mac users say our product and/or company sucks?
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
Perfect plans, aren't.
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Glad to hear you enjoy what you are doing now Pyro. (I must say that it shows. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) ) There is nothing worse than being stuck with a job in which you get no enjoyment from what you are doing.
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bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS