Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: CavemanJ on April 14, 2000, 05:19:00 AM
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Along with a few others I would LOVE to have the P-61 Black Widow. Even though I dinnae think this this bird could hope to compete in the arena during daylight. So bring on the night and the night fighters.
In talking with a squaddie he said they had tried it in brand w but it just dinnae work. Pitch black just wasn't any fun.
So dinnae make it pitch black. Just a very dark grey. Just enough light to get an outline of an aircraft at 2000-3000yds. Kinda like flying under a full moon on a cloudless sky. Even put a moon up there that could silhouette you and spell your death (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
On the ground add some kind of light here and there along the highest elevations of hills and have all landscape in muted greys (shadows where appropiate). This way pilots can see to avoid lawndarting. Also have the ground targets (bases, factories, etc) lit up, but subdued, so they can still be recognized and hit. Not exactly realistic, but this is more of a playability issue I think.
Icons are the next problem. Turn off all enemy icons and reduce friendly icons to 2000 or 3000 yards (with killshooter there should be a way to tell friend from enemy IMO). Only aircraft equiped with on board radar get enemy icons, and then only at 2000 or 3000 yards.
Give the night fighters some kind of readout that gives approximate range and whether a contact is higher or lower than the nightfighter. They still have to close to within 2-3k to see if it's friendly or enemy. During night time, if possible, have friendly dots on the map appear only if the aircraft is within range of an operational friendly radar structure. Dinnae really know how to deal with the ease of identification with friendly dots on the map =\
Vehicle icons could be left at 3k. The cover of darkness would also help the tread heads out as it would virtually impossible to spot them from the air, and then very difficult to attack them. This could lead to suprise "dawn raids" as vehicles drive into position under the cover of darkness. Imagine your surprise as you lift off for the first sortie of the day and an M16 parked under your runway lights you up (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/cool.gif)
Just a few thoughts on the night from the peanut gallery (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/cool.gif)
(of course, I have no idea of the feasibility of this (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) )
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Night gets my vote !
(Raises hand)
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Saw/Saintaw
=XO=II/JG2~Richthofen~
GMT T.O.D. SITE (http://www.wardogs.org/ah/)
(http://thedam.com/cwm/smile/net/deg.gif)
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
Don't shoot ! I am only an observer......
[This message has been edited by Saintaw (edited 04-14-2000).]
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Sounds fun to me (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Carpe Jugulum
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
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Just wanted to say that the night-ops EMC in WB actually worked really well. Given that AH is getting a Lanc, night ops in here would be even more special.
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Cave,I've just added you to my "When I win the lotto, I'm sending Cave money for a new computer" list. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/p61.jpg)
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Ripsnort(-rip1-)
I/JG2~Richthofen~
JG2 Communications Officer
Aces High Training Corps
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
(http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/ripsnort.jpg)
Turning Spitfires into Bud Lite cans since 1992
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 04-14-2000).]
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"Dear OGD, let us have Night in AH"
This is a frase I use a lot before bedtime!
Crabofix "another fishslap"
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Flygflottlj.19(Lento R5)"swedish Gladiators"
[This message has been edited by crabofix (edited 04-14-2000).]
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WE had a night senerio in the DOA HA, was a blast! IF you were unfortunate to only be able to fly in 2d you were screwed, but it looked ok in 3d.
Since the only option here is 3d... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Bring it on!
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Hi all,
As I wrote before, nights are good, but not in a MA. Some nights I get only 1 hour of a good connect, and I do not want to spend the whole hour looking for a single fighter to encounter, and to loose him in darkness 2 seconds after.
In scenario it shall be implemented simple because night raids were an important part of the air war over Europe.
Fariz,
The 12th Legion
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Night time could prove to be very interesting. Dreams of flares and Mossies path finding for the buffs. How about colored flares or flares placed by the enemy to lure you to the wrong destination.
All this brings a big grin to my face.
Here is a question how long in game play time should the period of nighttime last?
(http://members.home.net/1baddawg/Sims/dog-bite.gif)
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Aces High Correspondent for www.dogfighter.com (http://www.dogfighter.com)
[This message has been edited by Baddawg (edited 04-14-2000).]
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YES! Bring on the night! Good post cave.
I would suggest 20 minute roll over from dusk to dawn. Just enought for a taste. Maybe once every 4 hours or so.
Toss in the P-61 and a Ju-88 with the onboard DAR which would be shut down for the rest of us during the night.
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daddog C.O.
332nd Flying Mongrels (http://www.ropescourse.org/flying.htm)
Where men become friends and friends become brothers.
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Hi all
Yep, sounds good to me! Seeing many nightfighters had radar it would be good that if an airfield/or main radar was down then the radar from the aircraft could be transmitted to the main map but perhaps only if the enemy aircraft was actually 'illuminated' by the aircraft radar.
As for the length of night-time, would it be a full night? I'd like to see a rolling night-time at different hours, such as making a day just 20 hours long instead so everyone around the world would eventually get their share of night-time, know what I mean?
Regards all
'Nexx'
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My biggest complaint with the WB "night effect", was that no matter what the time was outside the cockpit, it was always a bright sunny day inside the cockpit. I guess with the 3D cockpit art, that wouldn't be a problem. (Though we might need illuminated instruments.)
I haven't really thought about having night ops, but I would love a "dawn takeoff" for scenarios. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
popeye
[This message has been edited by popeye (edited 04-14-2000).]
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HT, Pyro, can we get some commentary on this please (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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WHOAH! What a COOL idea!
A 20 minute night for every 4 hrs would be awesome!!!
BTW FYI there WAS a night in AH.
NZ and aussie players as well as a few of the west coasters who don't sleep at night might remember it from beta. The sun didn't used to roll over after late night MST. It wasn't dramatic or pitch black, rather visibility reduced to around half what we were used to and the arena seemed dark greyish and shadowy. IIRC you couldn't see the tower thru the norden after 15k.
However with icons still there to spot planes gameplay wasn't harshly affected at all.
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20 mins aint enough......
Swoop
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I'd like to add my 2 pence worth. (although people just seem to diss most of my ideas (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) )
Anyway, I think that the addition of night would increase everything about the game right now. Just Imagine the new landscape subtly moonlit. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) Also I agree, with the alledged introduction of the Lancaster (Hurrah!!! any idea when anybody???), night would be almost a necessity to allow successful sorties in this aircraft. It was seriously underarmed to be a serious day bomber until very late in the war when almost total Allied air superiority over Europe was certain.
An interesting thought of mine is manned searchlights? Although you wouldn't be able to shoot anything down, you could possibly get a score for finding an aircraft, or link an ack battery to a searchlight so you can shoot things down.
Right, you can now rip into my ideas and comments.....
Rufus - over and out.
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Although I see the idea as a wonderful one, and I like it, I guess that this cant be done. people is talking about 20min long nights. Well, German night fighters were mostly heavy bimotors that had very poor climbrate when full loaded (lets see...Radar set with drag-inducing-dipols, Schrage-Music fittings, heavy gun pods, and full of fuel to reach operational altitude...my guess is that they ALWAYS were overloaded). In 20 minutes you wont be higher than 15K, and that with a light Me110G.
Add to that the fact that we need a hole new planeset. Stirlings, Lancasters, Halifaxes, Mosquitos, Wellingtons...and Ju88, Me110, Uhus...
Then we need to model Radar sets. From terrain mapping British sets, to the german FuG series. Of course, the Monica warning radar, and the passive german RWR tuned to Monica's frequences. Then you need someone to fly with you as radarist, and you NEED ground control vectors, so YOU NEED people grounded so they can read radar lectures to guide the interceptors.(Is that fun?. For me,yes ,for many people not).
Lets face it. Some of us are real WWII nuts, but many people come here to have a couple of fites before going to bed. Night modelled is a HUGE effort by HTC that I doubt that more than 20% people will apreciate it. Maybe in a far future it can be done...but for now there are many more things to fix and do...sad as it is...because I'd really want to play the night ace in my Me110 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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Ram, out
Fw190D9? Ta152H1? The truth is out there
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
(http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/images/Ram.gif)
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RAM I was thinking something along the lines of 1hr of night every 8 hours. That gives plenty of time for the night fighters to climb to alt. It also allows the pilots going out at night to see it's almost time and get thier missions ready.
Then there's the dawn raid (which is interrupted by the M16s and Panzers that surround the field during the night (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) )
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/cool.gif)
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We wouldnt need the whole gamut of Radar and avionics to get some of the fun and the feel.
Limit Icons to 1k for non radar AC and 5k for radar AC. Use the ground radar as it is now. make contact dots pretty much invisible against the murk. make low level flying increadably dangourous.
I guess that I am saying we have a superficial ground war model and it is fine for a start..same attitide would get us a night war without giving HTC ulsers.
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Pongo
The Wrecking Crew
[This message has been edited by Pongo (edited 04-17-2000).]
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Given the latest developments in 1.03 I thought this thread needed a PUNT. IMNSHO this thread is a good discussion of night fighting. I think there've been some good suggestions about handling radar and icons (though I'm sure most, if not all, will be a real pain to implement).
And I guess the night time we have now is the commentary I asked for from Pyro and HT. As cool as the night is I have to believe it was done by design (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by CavemanJ (edited 06-23-2000).]
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Thanks for the punt Cave!
All I have to say is....
P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61
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Oh, I'd be just as happy with a 410 as well! So...
ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61 ME410 P61
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Heheheheheh we need the P61 Black Window, A/B 26C Invader Night Bomber, and the PBY-5 Catalina Black Cat
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Don't forget the F6F hellcat , a version had nite fighting radar as well!
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Beaufighter, Havoc and Mossie's too!!!!!
-Westy
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I think even an hour of night is too little, that's barely long enough to do a squad mission . And I've heard people complain about it being too dark, that they have a hard time seeing the ground . I think either they have vision problems or need to adjust their monitors . I have no difficulty seeing the ground or bases from 20k. Search lights would be a treat but I suppose thats along way off . Any way stop teasing us.
GIVE US LONGER NIGHTS MAN !
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Actually, it wouldn't be too little, you could co-ordinate your mission around the game clock so that as you took off it was dusk, as you fly into enemy territory it becomes night, etc. 1 hour would be enough in that case, but it'd become confusing if the time in RL that the night appeared changed from day to day.
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Excellent IDEA !!
I want my JU88-S1 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) i want to kill Mossie pathfinders with it .. and the idea of taking off in dusk and landing after a night of fighting during the first rays of sun at dawn is just too plain good !
Moon .. bring on the Moon ..
RAM: Actually you wouldn't need a Guy giving vectors .. you got DAR on the MAP .. If you adjust Icon ranges it should be possible to do a successfull intercept by merging the dots only (remember we are talking killing Buffs here that are flying a more or less straight line .. also in WW2 the ways of accquiring altitude information were "crude" at best .. so that wouldn't be too unrealistic either ..
(hmmm a new effect for Nate and ouperfly Exhaust flames !!!)
Dar ranges and such might have to be changed tho ..
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Originally posted by Duckwing6:
Moon .. bring on the Moon ..
RAM: Actually you wouldn't need a Guy giving vectors .. you got DAR on the MAP .. If you adjust Icon ranges it should be possible to do a successfull intercept by merging the dots only (remember we are talking killing Buffs here that are flying a more or less straight line .. also in WW2 the ways of accquiring altitude information were "crude" at best .. so that wouldn't be too unrealistic either ..
(hmmm a new effect for Nate and ouperfly Exhaust flames !!!)
Duck,radar on the map is the Himmelbett line (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) But I need some airborne radar to last approaches to the enemy bomber, just as was done in WWII.
Also we need reflectors over the city and factories (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 06-23-2000).]
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Guys you cannot have a straight hour of night in MA. Why? Well because many people prefer to fly during the "day hours" and many simple won't have time to wait for the sun to get back up. Maybe a second arena where night will be longer then day should be made, but I doubt you'll see an hour of night in MA.
Btw, I don't like flying during the night. And yes it's too dark and yes I can't see ground (I can see bases though). And no, I would not buy a new monitor just to see ground in AH during nights.
mx22
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Me-410? For daytime, sure. I'd rather have an He-219 for the night though! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
(http://www.devildogs.com/vmf111/sdsig2.gif)
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All; Anyplane HTC will make is cool by me,
Mx; Some of us don't like having our fun spoiled by F4U-1C's but the things here and we can live with it, why can't y'all deal with night?
Given the current barren nature of terrain,ground units are still terribly vunerable, night gives them equal status.
'course there aren't too many folks here interested in equality now are there? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Everybody got something they dig, and that's cool, but when ya down on someone else for what they dig, that's major uncool baby, Ya dig?
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pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"
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Tried the Jug last night offline. Suddenly remembered those .time commands I learned about here on this BB. Gave it a shot.
WOW!!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
I got some awesome screenshots. Just drop dead beautiful. Sunrise is fantastic, the misty landscape below looks sooo real I about cried.
On another note, night time was very very very black. If mayhaps HTC guys don't code moon, they could possibly just shorten night a bit. Anything (even pitch black night) would be well worth seeing that sunrise in an online sim! I'll try sunset tonight.
Liz out
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Sounds great to me! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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<PUNT>
if anything the night needs to be about 20-30min longer. With the dynamic lighting effects we're seeing I'm sure a moon would make shooting a little easier.
I dropped in on a hawg during night last night and at 500yds I couldna hit him (couldna see a good outline of the bird (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) )
eagerly awaiting me P-61B
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CavemanJ
CO, The Wrecking Crew
"Airpower is a thunderbolt launched from an egg shell invisibly tethered to a base."
--Hoffman Nickerson
To close with and destroy the enemy by use of fire, manuever, and shock effect
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Night, well a Big efort to get all the stuff inside
but HTC start with litle thing like a fiew minut longer night, position light on aircrafts
landing light, Field light they be activated
for 30 sec //.light 24 //and u must be around of 4 K from tower , to donot light up the AREANA , somepeople will be abuse to much :-))
the thing who bring the sim more close to reality and less hard to program
for now HOw about half Range icons for the night time ? , ack already shot in half range !
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I participated in a weekend warrior over in WB's in which we did at night--it was incredila--very intense! We flew just mossies and 110's, and the allies had B'24's and B'17's too. I had a couple of really intense showdowns in a 110 against mossies.
(http://ww2.esn.net/~saved4sure/AMMO.jpg)
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I like the night! (All bats do (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif))
I think make night longer and get us a schedule where we could plan for it - a little like jet day in WB.
But... I want blue and yellow exhaust flame. That's part of how planes were located in WWII and it would make night more realistic here. At a distance the dots disappear but before icon range, there is a tinge on bluish light to pull them out of the ink.
Turboed planes would have a bit of an advantage over straight stacks and superchargers due to the cooling and routing of the exhaust, but I'd bet there is some flame out of them too. Just harder to see.
I watched a Connie take off at night from right beside the runway not too long ago. Big 'ole exhaust flames. Really impressive.
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Night..... is a playing field for Buffs Vs Night fighters, thats it.. Fighter v Fighter if it ever happened at all was rare. Those who wish to dogfight will be SOL til daylight again. Due to this restriction, night would have to be so short (in MA) that the night fighters would have to get up well before sun down and hope they weren't caught by a day fighter while they grabbed.. I think it would be an exercise in futility...
Of course whenever i get some $$ to get back in the MA, night won't ground me...
SKurj
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I'm surprised Ripsnort dinnae do this with the NIGHTFIGHERS in 1.04!!! thread (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
<MASSIVE PUNT>
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/cool.gif)
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After 6 years of asking for it, I figured maybe shutting up about it would help promote it! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) But alas, I cannot keep my mouth closed about this beautifully ugly A/C that had the artistic moves of a P38 but the punch of a A26.
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with the new resurgence in night threads...
<PUNT>
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Hey Rip,
Are we getting the early production `B' model without the turret, or we going for a full blown 'C' model to really Pi$$ em off with? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) . Of course, with all the low production planes in here, maybe HTC will give us a P-61E as a perk plane! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (If I recall, there were two P-61E's built (Not including F-15 Reporters))
SD
[This message has been edited by Sundog (edited 09-28-2000).]
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I'd be perfectly happy with a 2nd half production run -B model with the turret added back after a redesign (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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<--- but i'm scared of the DARK....Hold me Cavey. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
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To re-itterate....<sp> The night was a cool Feature and Benefit. I was perplexed to hear HiTech state that it was gone now. He stated it on-line, and because the users' logged off, upon the onset of darkness....so who is still afraid of the dark? Well, they should log off....they are children!! If ya can't stand he heat, get outa the kitchen.....or learn to make pancakes in the sun! Sheesh!
I for one support the night, and ask it be returned in full force and glory! I posted this previously, and had a good response. http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/005327.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/005327.html)
I respect HTC and their decisions, but this one has my full attention. I think that it is wrong to delete such a great feature. Kinda evens the odds, for those folks that need an advantage! hehehe (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
K-KEN
http://www.cutthroats.com/ (http://www.cutthroats.com/)
(http://www.cutthroats.com/art/buttons/on_patch8Xs.gif)
http://www.neo-meme.com/coyote.html#COYOTE (http://www.neo-meme.com/coyote.html#COYOTE)
Hi my name is Ken, I have an obvious drinking problem !!!
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punt!
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<boot>
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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps (http://www.luftjagerkorps.com)
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We want the night! Please.
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ezdoc
48th Fighter Group "Checkertails"
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Red 17......Blue 23.....hut, hut, hike..................
*PUNT!*
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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps (http://www.luftjagerkorps.com)