Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Films and Screenshots => Topic started by: Sky Viper on September 28, 2001, 08:14:00 AM
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Up 'til now, PSP7 has been a great companion for editing and creating pics.
But lately I have been dinking around with texture tiles for the AHE and it doesn't seem to well suited to this task.
(it distorts colors when it saves)
On a recomendation from Voss, I just downloaded POV-Ray from http://www.povray.org (http://www.povray.org) and I will check it out.
He also suggested starting a thread here to collect some links/info from the community.
So, what is good? What do you terrain/tile pros use most?
Viper
"Sept. 11, 2001...a booster shot in the arm of American Patriotism!"
(http://www.siteviper.com/54sq/imgs/flag.usa.gif)
(http://www.siteviper.com/54sq/imgs/pledge.jpg)
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Tile generator (and other plugins) for POV-Ray
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lakes/1434/ (http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lakes/1434/)
Viper
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I use three image paint programs. Paint Shop Pro, Photoshop, and Microsoft Photo Editor. I don't use any of them to make tiles for the terrain editor, though.
I use Pov-Ray. If I need to do any file conversions, or rescaling I use DTA (Dave's Targa Animator), although my current system is too fast for any version of DTA except the latest (DTA for Win '95).
So, what operation are you attempting when these color changes take place?
(http://www.wfeca.net/users/voss13tas/OldGlory.png)
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Btw, the Pov source to create Old Glory is available here:Old Glory Pov File (http://www.wfeca.net/users/voss13tas/OldGlory.zip)
:cool:
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Originally posted by Voss:
So, what operation are you attempting when these color changes take place?
Color reduction and saving as .bmp .
I know what the problem is, and I am not sure that any program would have a good solution.
Example: Creating farm tile that blends accurately with the forest/rock/grass...
OK, logic tells me to take my basic tiles and merge them. Lets consider Rock and Farm.
I convert them both to 24 bit color, cut out the appropriate triangle section of rock and paste it onto the rock so that the patterns line up nicely. Blend as needed.
Convert back to 256 colors and save.
The conversion dithering/etc. kills the blend by changing the color. In this example, the grey/tan of the rock were darkened by the dirt of the farm.
What is worse is that PSP DOES NOT resample the color pallet to show you that it is now screwed up.
You have to close and reopen the file to see the difference. This action prevents you from using the undo function. :(
I guess the alternative is to create all of the files in 256 colors and maintain a constant pallet or at least the edges so that they mate up.
Would be nice if AHE used 24 bit tiles. ;)
Viper
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Don't dither (nor use error diffusion). Perhaps, I have wasted your time in recommending Pov? Well, I recommend it anyway. :)
DTA can better make the file conversion, particularly from TGA to BMP. If, you have an older system around you can still find older versions of DTA that support a wide variety of file formats. David K. Mason has not yet released a newer version (for today's faster systems) and may not! DTA runs in a DOS window and is better at resizing, converting, and animation then even the Adobe suite. It's a lot cheaper too (shareware).
:cool:
[ 09-28-2001: Message edited by: Voss ]
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CorelDraw and PhotoPAINT!!!! these are my ONLY ones i use.
Sky, any questions POST em and i'll answer them..One thing you gotta remember NOT to do,, don't start with an 8 bit texture. Always work with it in 24bit THEN convert it down and you should have no reduction in detail or any color variation. If you want to know how to make a seamless tile on all edges or want to know how to ( or how I) make the transitions from farm to grassy rock, I'll do a follow up on how to acheive it.
NUTTZ ( HATES RAY prov )
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I use Adobe Photoshop 5 at home (only have MS Photo Editor at work :( ). Works great for editing pics.
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As far as image editors go, the best bang for your buck will be theGimp (http://www.gimp.org). It was originally a Unix only graphics editor, but there is a Win32 port available. I use Gimp extensively and like it better than photoshop. I drew my jug with it. :)
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Sancho
63rd FS, 56th FG
"Zemke's Wolfpack"
(http://www.jump.net/~cs3/sigs/mahurin_sig.jpg)
Hell hath no fury like 8 50 cals and 18 fire breathing cylinders.
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I have to agree with Sancho on the Gimp. I found this to be a really nice (just found it at "Books-a'-Million").
I know why Nuttz hates Pov-Ray so much. It has a steep learning curve and does not support point and click operations. It takes a good year to get good pictures out of it, and like five years to master it. Given that most people I know have given it only about a week to try (ahem)...
Given that you understand mathematics well, and have the ability to picture three dimensions (in depth thinking) you can make tiles with Pov just as fast as PhotoShop, and even faster. However, given a lack of willingness to learn you'll never get there.
One thing Pov-Ray does offer is the ability to set up your tiles, so that they are pre-scaleable. This is an area that most artists fail MISERABLY with. When testing your tiles you may see what I mean. Apply your tiles to the terrain that you have created. Grab a plane and go to ceiliing altitude. If your tiles do not still tile well (without causing dither crawl), or look screwed up from scaling, you're going about it all wrong.
:cool:
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HUH? you underestamate me Voss i have well over 15 years working with MANY graphics programs INCLUDING Pixars before anyone even heard of who they were. I find Corel an excellent program, and offered my opinion. Please don't insult my intellegence, because i don't like your personal choice of programs
. Skyvipr, email me and i'll show you a much easier way of making the tiles, you seam to be making it much harder on yourself than need to be.
NUTTZ
I have to agree with Sancho on the Gimp. I found this to be a really nice (just found it at "Books-a'-Million").
I know why Nuttz hates Pov-Ray so much. It has a steep learning curve and does not support point and click operations. It takes a good year to get good pictures out of it, and like five years to master it. Given that most people I know have given it only about a week to try (ahem)...
Given that you understand mathematics well, and have the ability to picture three dimensions (in depth thinking) you can make tiles with Pov just as fast as PhotoShop, and even faster. However, given a lack of willingness to learn you'll never get there.
One thing Pov-Ray does offer is the ability to set up your tiles, so that they are pre-scaleable. This is an area that most artists fail MISERABLY with. When testing your tiles you may see what I mean. Apply your tiles to the terrain that you have created. Grab a plane and go to ceiliing altitude. If your tiles do not still tile well (without causing dither crawl), or look screwed up from scaling, you're going about it all wrong.
:cool:[/QUOTE]
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Voss, Can you please post a .Res File on a map you made with Pov-ray so i can see how beautiful it makes the tiles?
NUTTZ