Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: SC-GreyBeard on April 14, 2000, 04:50:00 PM
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I dropped 6 1000 lb bombs in the span of 30 minutes on each of two fighter hangars at a30...
(12 bombs total in less than 30 minutes)
Neither went down....
at this rate if there are to few people to mount an un-stoppable raid,, (ie late at night..) there will be no reason to play this. it would be great if we always had 40 people up on a side to mount large scale raids, but we don't.
PLUS you shortened the time it takes to rebuild?? but you didn't shorten our flight times......
Noticed we're back to basic furball, and field vultching..... (discounting the tank battles)
Think the hangar hardness increase and rebuild time change was a bad move.
Other than graphics, FM and service, this will become just another WB.....
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GreyBeard, Squadron Leader
Commander, "E" Flight, Aces High
Senior Staff Council
"The Skeleton Crew"
"Fly with Honor"[/i]
"Keepin' the Faith"
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I hope this is just a bug...
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It takes 3000lbs to take out a hanger now so now a Co-ordinated Buff effort is needed to close and take over a base.
Unfortunately this does not bode well for those who do not inhabit A1.
(http://members.home.net/1baddawg/Sims/dog-bite.gif)
[This message has been edited by Baddawg (edited 04-14-2000).]
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3000 to kill a hanger??
Last month for this kid.
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When did they put this thing in here and WTF is it for?
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3k w/ a downtime of 15min is way to much. Even if we're on the short end of the stick.
Maybe 2000lbs. This would still call for at least 2 bombers to kill every hanger on any field (1 B17 could only take down 3 hangers).
The jabos/panzers could roll in and kill the ack while the bombers are doing the hangers. Then the gooney bird (or halftrak) could roll in and kick out the drunks.
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Sunchaser - you are giving up AH simply due to the hardness of the hangers? I know it's a little out of whack right now, but remember - it was WE who asked for this change. HTC responded very quickly imho. It's just that, well, it now might be a bit too much in the other direction. No doubt HTC will be just as responsive to us regarding this *as ususual*, and change it.
Don't assume HTC immediately have all the right answers and don't make mistakes. They implement change, find out how it affects gameplay, and adjust it accordingly.
Unless this hangar issue is 'the final straw' for you, I'm a bit dumbfounded by your reaction.
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This isn't intended as any sort of flame...
GreyBearrd,
"Other than graphics, FM and service, this will become just another WB..."
For me those are 3 of the 4 BIGGEST reasons I fly Aces High and not Warbirds. Also, large scale raids DO happen (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Baddawg,
That's just awesome. Now a lone wolf bomber can't climb up to 30k and close all the hangers on an entire front, we also might see more buff boxes to shoot up (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
AS FOR VULCHING
Please, please, PLEASE don't ever get rid of vulching. It IS my theropy (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
Udie
I/JG2 Richtofen
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I hate vulturing.
1000lb is ok for hangars with standard 30 minutes or rebuild. Other way no one want to deal with hitting the hangars.
The one of the few things I liked in a 1.02 was that number of vulture fests decreased strongly. Now they are back.
Also -- it seems that HTC works toward the adding to the game more cooperative team play, but as for now it does not work. With 1.02 game became even more chaotic. The raids on HQ which always were the example of a team work are history now.
I understand that with such a major changes it takes some time to ballance a game play.
FAriz
The 12th Legion
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Too big, Too small...too big, too small...too big, too small...too big, too small...too big, too small...too big, too small...too big, too small...too big, too small...too big, too small...too big, too small...too big, too small...too big, too small...too big, too small...too big, too small...too big, too small...too big, too small...too big, too small...
Tsssssssss......... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/eek.gif)
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Saw/Saintaw
=XO=II/JG2~Richthofen~
GMT T.O.D. SITE (http://www.wardogs.org/ah/)
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/dorasaint.gif)
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
Don't shoot ! I am only an observer......
[This message has been edited by Saintaw (edited 04-14-2000).]
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Woohoo the action is back..I love it
Wil
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Just back from a 3 kill + 4 assist sortie in spit 9 over 25. (OK one of those was a vulch)
Last week such was impossible, you ran out of gas before finding 2 cons.
As to hangers, well I think rebuild time should go back to 30 min. But leave the 3k of bombs (or go down to 2 at most)
If teamwork is required to take a field, then teamwork will develop.
Low furballs & vulching fields is simply too much fun for it to go away.
BTW Salute to all of those at 25 tonight.
Dunno about you but I had a blast.
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The boys done good.
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Easymoney
Your the banger, or the bangee. Skill aint got much to do with it.
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I vote 1K, 30 min on hangers.
1 B-17 could shut down air opps at 2 fields, max, with no misses. A large field would take at least 2 buffs, not including ack.
As it stands now, Gronk and I could not shut down 3 hangers at a small field with 2 B-17's and no misses. A fighter can't even take down a hanger. I can't think of why I would want to fly buffs anymore? Should it really take 3 guys 1 or 2 hours of flying each just to shut down air opps at a small field for 15 min?
I guess 1 B-17 could bust the ack and a few fighters could shoot planes as they try to take off? Hmm... that sounds a bit familiar...?
eskimo
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2k - 20 mins seems best to me OR
3k - 30 mins
15 mins is waaaay too short for 3k.. for instance I take my tank in with a bunch of other guys, after slaughtering a field the stuff finally goes down. We whip back, grab a goon/reload etc.. and everythings back up.
The only way to get a field now is if it's undefended.
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yea 2 x 1000lb so that a JABO can take out a hangar.. and down time 30 mins so that we can at least think about getting a goobn on site
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Are there any targets that will increase the rebuild time for hangers?
I personaly like the current setup, I could live with 2K of high explosives but I think the 15mins is right on. But face it, every change that is made will have more than it's fair share of "Hey this sucks now!" comments. I think we should give it some time and see what develops. Anybody tested how much tank ammo you need to put into one yet?
Just once, I'd like to see an actual 10+ bomber carpet bomb run over a field.
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2000lb and 25 mins seems fair to me.
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Revvin
249 Squadron RAF
Tangmere Wing
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If people don't like the hangars being down, they need to defend their field. And no, defending does NOT mean shooting down bombers after they dropped. It means hitting them before they reach the target.
Of course this would require such intellectual activity as reading the radar screen and organizing a BARCAP. Gee kinda like a real war...
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Yea I think the x2 1,000lbs is a good idea, with the 30 min rebuild.
Last night it was back to the same old same old boring fight on the deck, everyone centered around a field vulching. *yawn*
I like intense action like everyone else, but the mindless vulching is really old.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Carpe Jugulum
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
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Since I'm one of the buff drivers that just deliver eggs where needed I don't have any special preference about hangar hardness, although I fear that the current 3000lb hardness coupled w/ 15 minutes rebuild time will make life boring again in the MET timezone.
Az
(http://www.link-goe.de/~m.henze/images/177k.gif)
II.(K)/JG2
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Careful what you ask for they might get your order wrong (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I was one of the people that wanted harder hangers, but I was looking at 1000lbers or 2x1000lbers. This takes jabo runs out of the picture again. A group of 4-5 P-38s should be able to close a field. With this setup noone can carry enough bombs to kill the hangers.
Make the hangers 2x1000lb, 15 min rebuild is ok if a coordinated attack is planed.
Sharky
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You can run, but you just die tired.
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OK Nash no, hanger hardness is not the reason to quit paying to play but it would be the straw that broke...
Any additional reasons given will be blown off as whining so forget them.
Let's look at it from another point of view.
Are we to assume that every airfield on the AH map are first line, permanent, fully equipped, hardened installations with concrete hangers?
If so, then I could understand the rational behind requiring 3,000 pounds of high explosive ordnance to destroy them.
If, as was more often the case with fields near the front lines, they are hastily constructed, the hangers would be quonset huts if we were lucky and more likely a tall tree to hide under.
So, if I drop a 500 lb bomb on that quonset hut, or even a wooden structure it is going to go away.
And it should go away for at least 30 minutes.
I choose to fly bombers and accept the long flights to altitude but the end result of that time investment in this sim is getting less and less it seems.
I think bombers are an important factor and there are others who think them a waste of space in AH but HTC has control over whether or not anyone will fly bombers here.
Make bombing totally frustrating and bye, bye bomber pilots.
BTW, if any HTC guys read this, very well done overall and my B17 cowlings still need some work.
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When did they put this thing in here and WTF is it for?
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Throwing in my .2 cents. Some vulching is OK, but I liked it better with out the neccesity for constant re-spawn vulch vulch vulch. AKA version 1021.
However; I did find that the hangers died way to easy. The 2x1k for 30 minutes formula seems about the best one I have heard so far.
Possibly, then make the vehicle hanger at 3x1k for 30 minutes. This would require at least 2 bombers or several Jabo to close a base.
<Salute> (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
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I think they've gone too far on the hardness for the hangars. This kind of toughness makes perfects sense for things like the HQ; where multiple AC need be effective.
As it is now, it's back to a vulch-city rendition of quakebirds. No real stategy possible for frontal attacks. Yes; the hangars were easy before; but 3k with 15 min downtime is going too far. A mistake. I hope they change it quick with a patch. Leaving it this way will be a bigger mistake.
The hangars IMHO oughta require 1K to down, with 15 min rebuild or 2K with 30 min rebuild. Cumulative damage. I mean that yah hit it with 1k it's down fer 15min; if yah hit it with 2k it's down for 30min. They should be killable by strafing! Also cumulative. Same for track shack...
Pyro!!! HiTech! I implore u!! Fix it!!!
Hang
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Originally posted by Hangtime:
I hope they change it quick with a patch. Leaving it this way will be a bigger mistake.
Hardness of structures may be changed any moment thru the host, no need to wait till the patch. Other thing is if they want to make it.
Fariz
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1000 lb and 30 minutes,
or 500lb and 15 minutes.
Or kill does not mean anything again.
When you work hard on every kill to get 5 kill mission and then someone get 8 in the vulch fest, that make your 5 kills a bs.
Vultures shall be presented in the game, but with the very low percent, no more than 3-5%. Right now the number is much higher.
FAriz
The 12th Legion
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Fariz I guess you are score monger. I fly to have fun, number of kills dont matter to me. Now this whole vulching topic is BS. If you take off from a capped field you have a chance of getting vulched. Why do people take off from capped fields? To get in the action quick or defend an airfield. Its their choice, unless they are a complete newbie and dont know any better. So get of y'alls vulching high horse and fly.
Fields are also not impossible to get as the Rooks demonsrated last night. They gutted us (Bish) down to HQ. With TWC and Mskts working together they are a field capturing machine. I had the most fun last night since the intro of the 1.02 patch. WTG HT!
Wil
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Originally posted by will:
Fariz I guess you are score monger. I fly to have fun, number of kills dont matter to me. Now this whole vulching topic is BS. If you take off from a capped field you have a chance of getting vulched. Why do people take off from capped fields? To get in the action quick or defend an airfield. Its their choice, unless they are a complete newbie and dont know any better. So get of y'alls vulching high horse and fly.
Fields are also not impossible to get as the Rooks demonsrated last night. They gutted us (Bish) down to HQ. With TWC and Mskts working together they are a field capturing machine. I had the most fun last night since the intro of the 1.02 patch. WTG HT!
Wil
Your statment is contradictial. The vulturing is the best way for the score mongers, or call it whatever you want. The easiest way to get very high scores is to sit in tower waiting the vulch, then to jump into the plane and get your very high rating. It was done before by some people, it will be done in future.
One of the best thing in AH is that you have to think to get kills, not only your reflexes count. You have to train yourself, to develop the best tactics, etc. Vulturing puts it to the level 0, and that is what I do not like.
As I wrote before I do care about the scores, but for me it is the part of the process. Seems you are right and I shall stop caring about them to get fun here. But I know the easiest way to get what you call fun. I will run Unreal Tournament and I will get faster and bigger "fun" of killing 1000 enemies within hour with no thinking at all. Pure reflexes.
Fariz
The 12th Legion.
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I must agree, 2000 lbs. and 20-25 min. or 3000 lbs. and 30 min.
My reasoning is this: sometimes it's just too difficult to get a c47 IB to a field in 15 min. when everyone is already airborne (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Ripsnort(-rip1-)
I/JG2~Richthofen~
JG2 Communications Officer
Aces High Training Corps
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
(http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/ripsnort.jpg)
Turning Spitfires into Bud Lite cans since 1992
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 04-17-2000).]
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One buff should not be able to shut down an entire field... then bail/ditch, replane in a 47 and capture it.
Any modifications to damage/timing are due to pure exploitation of older systems. The acks are down for 30 mins.. that is fine. The hangars should not be down for the same amount of time. 15 minutes seems reasonable to me. You just have to take them down AFTER the C47 has launched.. not before.
Base capture should involve coordination and teamwork. I agree that 3x1000 for one hangar may be excessive.. but 2x1000 is the minimum. This allows 1 buff to take out 3 hangars. It also allows 1 buff with 2 JABO/escorts to take down a base. Notice a theme here?
Most complaints about low number hours stem from the fact that 1 person could shut down a base then capture it all by his lonesome. That possibility needs to be eliminated. The new system does that.
So.. 2x1000 for 15 mins on hangars seems fine to me. 30 mins for ack is fine too. Learn to coordinate things and this won't matter quite as much.
AKDejaVu
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Hangar rebuild time too short for your liking? Aren't you supposed to bomb factories and cities to prolong that time?
Isn't the strategy and infrastructure was what you asked for?
You have good reasons to hit other things then fields now.
miko--
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Miko2d brings up an excellent point.
Greybeard does as well. I'm changing my vote for 2000k and 15 min.
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Got to agree with DejaVu and Miko. Only one caveat for me....maybe make the hangar downtime to 20 minutes, but 15 minutes can be done if the resources are coordinated from the start, which is the point here I think.
But Miko's point about the strat infrastructure is right on the mark.
Cobra
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Hi all,
Have to mention that I made an error, I hasted with my conclusions. Yes, vulturings are back, just look on the scores. Again you can not tell if guy is really good or he just sit in the tower waiting for vulturing. But along with it:
a) some good example of team play was shown by bishops last days, what is very good. That raid on 1 was fun, though we did not completed it.
b) I found fields with fuel down to 25%. With fragile hangars killing fuel lost any sence, now it is one of the ways to put the attackers into defence.
Still 3000lb and 15 minutes are not good enough. 3000lb and 30 minutes? 2000lb and 15 minutes? Probably HTC shall try one of them and watch the impact on the gameplay.
Fariz,
The XII Legion
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hey I agree 2 1000lbs and 3o min rebiuld time was good then we had enough time to try to get a field
I love to fly the bombers and some fighters in fact i have a few variations I wouldn't mind seeing in ah (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/cool.gif)
(http://.-http://www.fastlane.net/homepages/gchocker/p38.htm) -----------------
Jimmie T
Pheonix Squadron
Aces High
[This message has been edited by jimmiet (edited 04-17-2000).]
[This message has been edited by jimmiet (edited 04-17-2000).]
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1000lb and 30 min down time sounds good (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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The Wild Vikings
Commanding Officer
lasse-