Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Badger on May 03, 2000, 12:49:00 PM
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Hi ripsnort....... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I have read your posts, both at AGW and here. I really enjoy the passion and excitement you and others express for on-line sims in general, whether they be WB, AH, or WWII On-line. It has helped rekindle my enthusiasm from time to time. I do understand your sensitivities to their reaction at AGW about your AH posts and particularly the Macboy (MG) material. I'm sure the dynamics of what's happening is not lost on you.
The WB community is particularly defensive of late, especially with the arrival of AH as a "flat rate" reality and a "flat rate" WWII On-line looming on the horizon. They are wedded to an older software product, ironically developed by the same people who have given us AH. I get a kick out of seeing the "noise" about the FM's being so bad in AH as compared to WB, when in fact the code is written by the same individual in both cases. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Hitech is a smart guy, both technically and in a business marketing sense. I believe if you spoke to him, he'd probably tell you he learned one heck of a lot about both while writing the WB code, including the good, the bad and the downright ugly. The AH code has benefited from the second time around and is probably better structured to be highly scaleable and replicable for growth into new hardware and graphics card genres, whereas, I would bet the WB code requires more of a "forklift" upgrade to accomplish this. Hence, the need to develop what in essence has been called WB 3.0.
To do this, they brought in a completely new guy (Hotseat) from my neck of the woods, who's been tasked to move WB competitively forward from a development (programming) point of view. I admire his vocal leadership and courage, walking onto "Omaha" beach last year and being expected to not only maintain existing code he never wrote in the first place, but also dynamically grow it for the future. He was expected to accomplish all of this with very limited resources given their financial condition at the time. I can only presume he's in it for a substantial "upside", in being given a good piece of a successful and fiscally viable corporation down the road. The problem iEN has with him is that he really needs a good filter PR guy in front of him. In some cases, his bluntness and direct opinions about the product, the WB community, and even his own management "food chain" have been provocative, to say the least. Ironically, with the odd exception, I have agreed with most of his views. He is a breath of fresh air amongst the sea of mediocrity that was left after HiTech, Pyro and the rest of the crew left iEN. Unfortunately, it appears he's changing feet again with a recent plea to the WB user community to save his BBS "forum" on development, which if I understand the essence of it correctly, his employers want him to discontinue and be less vocal about the development process. Perhaps it's simply their way of trying to help him be less dangerous from a political correctness point of view. In any event, he is an outside contractor, not an iEN employee, so I suspect he's going to continue to give them fits as he moves the WB 3 project along to hopefully a fall, or next spring release.
iEN also continues to be a struggling entity from a fiscal point of view, still losing money until a predicted turnaround in the latter part of the year. "The company also announced that operating losses, adjusted for non-cash and unusual charges, were substantially reduced to $0.5 million in Q1 from $0.6 million in Q4 1999, and $2.7 million in the year ago period". A bright note is that they have improved revenues and slowed the bleeding, plus they now seem to have understood the need to diversify. Since there's no breakdown of product line revenue, I have no idea how the WB's division performs financially. Personally, if it was not near break even now, or making some money, I'd shut it down immediately. A painful thing to say about a passion and environment that's given me so much, but no different that putting down my old Basset hound due to cancer, after she gave me twelve years of devoted trust and love. To keep going, as a CEO, I would have to believe in a business sense, that WB 3.0 will be vastly superior to any other on-line multiplayer flight-sim. Therefore, you would also assume that players would be willing continue to pay an hourly rate for its use, even though the marketing paradigm has shifted to the now dominate "flat rate" pricing model of AH, WWII On-line and probably others to come.
See this link for more info:
http://www.quote.com/quotecom/news/story.asp?story=13785752&symbols=IENT (http://www.quote.com/quotecom/news/story.asp?story=13785752&symbols=IENT)
When the WB community on AGW sees all of these machinations being thrashed about, it's enough to bring out the insecurities in the best of us. Therefore they will react as they have to you, or anyone for that matter, who adds more stress to an already threatened environment. Unfortunately, mixed in with the facts of the situation about the product, you also have it compounded by the same vociferous and vocal few on AGW, who have always poured gasoline on any issue. In my personal opinion, they're most often youngsters still in some level of schooling with too much time on their hands, or if they are a more mature crowd, generally individuals who have experienced little influence and control in their real work or home lives. They use an electronic veil of anonymity with impersonal text communication to exercise a virtual political power and clique building, often to the exclusion of others who disagree with any of their positions. To their credit, some use their real names, while others hide behind pseudonyms. I wouldn't take it too personally, as it's highly unlikely the same written "flaming" style of dynamic interaction would occur in a face to face around the table venue. My apologies for wandering off and playing amateur psychologist, but one doesn't have to be Freud to read much of what they write and not draw those same conclusions. Now you know why I've never posted much on AGW, or when I did, learned when it was time to bow gracefully and return to being a lurker. Unfortunately, we are starting to see some of the same names over here, I assume hedging their bets about product futures and sizing up a new potential electronic domicile.
The good news is that this AH community is on the front side of the product life cycle "Bell Curve", where you can smell and almost taste its vibrancy, as the software evolves through each iteration. Have you ever noticed how users here forgive the most outrageous bugs and play anomalies that they would "draw and quarter" iEN about? That's the byproduct of a trusting, healthy and fresh environment. HTC seems "lean and mean" in a business sense, as well as financially viable faster than most corporate start-ups. HiTech has acutely understood the value of good marketing at all levels, including a paced "keep them hungry" product development, plus he has the patience to grow HTC with a "crawl, walk, then run" approach. The result is that the egotism and negatism about form, function or feature that predominates so much of the discussion about WB, doesn't really exist here. It could, but only if the community gets drawn into it, or the product itself begins to suffer from atrophy in marketing and release cycles.
I loved WB when I was an early adopter in late 95, early 96. I watched it grow with the same enthusiasm we currently see here in AH. I saw the excitement on AGW as each iteration was anticipated and discussed. I was spending upwards of $150-$200 US per month, but in an electronic sense, I also experienced the loss of the founding fathers and many of the players (AGW posters) I grew up with. I watched the WB atrophy of "tinkering" type software releases with ever changing goals, while iEN continued to enjoy the benefits of being the ONLY multiplayer on-line viable flight-sim option for me. I watched AGW with apathy as many self serving personae's began to dominate and now, I watch many members there signing under their names "WB 3.0, I want to believe". The danger for iEN and WB while stuck in the current cycle, is that they can easily fall into a "death watch" mentality. At that point you would see everyone searching for all available life rafts, while the rest continue to rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic.
Although I don't post there anymore, I'm still a proud member of AGW with no intention of deleting my bookmark. We should all thank Argo for the enormous service he offers the WB community by maintaining a non partisan environment. I still pay my $9.95 per month US to iEN, but to be frank, haven't flown since the day AH went live from beta. Why do I continue to pay iEN and lurk at AGW? Well, my first boss once said, "your as good as your last sale". So, to me it means that I want to have options as a consumer. AH, WB, WWII On-line, or whomever has the next on-line sim are simply as good as their last release to me. If one becomes superior, than I'll move there, or back there and be happy. Being an individual who has to fix sick corporate environments for a living, I see almost daily, the delusions of senior executives who rely on consumer loyalties as a fiscally sound marketing practice. I sincerely hope that WB 3.0 is financially viable and a great success for iEN, as it will only serve to improve AH and their competitors, to the ultimate benefit for all of us in the long run.
With apologies for the obscene length of this message and being OT...
Regards,
Badger
Fight on "My Time, My Terms, My Ground"
[This message has been edited by Badger (edited 05-03-2000).]
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I'll make my post short, I made 1 post in the general topic BB back in Jan. and have been branded ever since. I posted some "whats new in AH" posts in off-topic and had one guy (who was a WB trainer at that!) say he'da banned me from AGW if it was his board.
I say to these individuals "Grow up!"
Someday they will figure out that competition is a good thing.
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Badger I belive you might have set a record for the longest post.
It's always interesting seeing people outside the industry putting there minds to work about it's dynamics.
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HiTech
For Bribes (http://www.internetwines.com/pa95154.html)
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HT...
Oh my.....
I think I'm in deep ca ca...
Sorry about that boss...
It was not my intention to create that kind of a record. I just got typing and couldn't stop. It's almost as if a few years of frustrations need to be expressed someplace. I guess the catalyst was the way a few people had badly treated ripsnort and his reaction to it, so I felt I had to speak up about it all.
Anyway, please feel free to delete it.
Regards,
Badger
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Badger, I might have a slightly different take on it, but it's impressive that you put down so much to consider in a relatively short space. Frankly, HT's "insider" post aside, you've hit the mark in many places. There's a hell of a lot I'm willing to forgive with AH that I wouldn't in WB, just because I know that the version that will be released in a few days will fix it. Of course, I don't always go whining on AGW (And I'm having an existential crisis: this is the first month I won't have met my 13 hour quota).
After all, does not the expression "two weeks" hold within it not merely the idea that some things will never be fixed, but that shortly there shall be a new release. and something will get done?
Oh, and HT: Cragganmore's ok, but wouldn't you prefer a bottle of Glenrothes in exchange for that A-26?
[This message has been edited by Dinger (edited 05-03-2000).]
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Heheh HT,
Badger, one thing ya missed in your pontification, heheh. AH isn't outta the woods yet. It's gotta make a profit, and HTC may not know about that for a year or more. WWIIOL has a long road ahead just to get to beta, much less profitability. So WB isn't the only sim on the edge. The only thing I'm sure of is HTC has proved he can make a fun sim. Twice. HS hasn't done squat yet.
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Badger, that was one of the most lucid, interesting and thoughtful posts I've ever read.
Uhm... nuff said.
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HT, forgive my friend Dinger, he meant to say "P61", he's alittle delusional after spending too much time in the diesel fumed-infested confines of a tank.
Thanks.
Ripsnort
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Very, very nice read at lunch today Badger. Really sound point of view and gave me a better insight when thinking abotu what you were saying.
I'd been lambasted as a disprupter in AW about five months ago. I was the guy there who tried to keep the news fesh on other online sime - in particular AH. I ended up more or less having to stop talking about it in these private newsgroups less I be tarred and feathered
I think it would be safe to say you could replace "WB" in your above letter with "AW" but magnify the emotions and insecurities even more - they have NO AW:4 on the horizon unlike WB's who at least has a few screen shots and a company saying they are developing a sim for thier subscriber base.
-Westy
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This guy sounds reasonable !!! I can't believe that at one time he actually flew for LW (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) But then again, nobody is perfect (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Good post badger.
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Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF
Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998
Northolt Wing Headquarters (http://www.raf303.org/northolt/)
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With apologies for the obscene length of this message and being OT...
Well badger, with this kind of style and the knowledge about some special sections of ground warfare (which most don't know or wouldn't dare to ask) you're always welcome. I'd like to read the same type of posts, on another matter, on AGW, but sadly, as a german WB player on the german WB server (still running WB 2.01 btw) I felt never welcome to the WB community when I had the chance to fly WB on a free account and now decided to let it go, although I still contribute a bit to it on my homepage. But the increase in hate posts on AGW alienated me even more, and for now I decided to stick to the sim I am paying for and his community, through good and bad times. It wasn't a divorce because I've never been really there...
Well, another OT and meaningless post, sorry.
Az
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Congrats badger on the best, most articulate and accurate post I've seen in a long time.
I think you've hit spot on in almost every mark.
I've never could understand why a loud minority on AGW constantly denigrates IEN whatever they do.
If I tired of WB I would simply vote with my feet and move elsewhere.
Not make a stink on BBS boards.
I don't play AH, but I might, in the future.
ripsnort, your not evil incarnate :-)
In a related psychological phenomena, the 'grouphug-o-meter' goes off the scale on the WWW2OL BBS board.
Coming from WB I can empathize with the following of the ex-ICI developers.
Still its comical how an IEN screenshot get labeled 'Fake!', and noone would even think to question the screenshots of WW2OL.
(don't misunderstand, I have no doubts both are from in-engine screenshots)
scout
WarBirds
[This message has been edited by scout (edited 05-03-2000).]
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You did the Seals proud, Badger. Great post!
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Ok gent's im totaly confused.
Ive seen 2 references to my first post in this fourm assuming that I was taking some kind of offenses to badgers writup.
I think it's a great writeup and just wish I could put my thoughts on paper in such a eloquent fashon as badger does.
Please fill me in how my first post was taken.
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HiTech
For Bribes (http://www.internetwines.com/pa95154.html)
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HT, I think I understood what you were saying, with the quote "It's always interesting seeing people outside the industry putting there minds to work about it's dynamics."
I think the word interesting in combination with the word outsider was taken to mean innacurate, rather than what I understood you to mean, which was simply, "interesting".
But this is just a guess...
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Originally posted by hitech:
Ok gent's im totaly confused.
Ive seen 2 references to my first post in this fourm assuming that I was taking some kind of offenses to badgers writup.
Hey HT, just go over to AGW BB,post something,.. anything.. they'll turn your words around, put them through a meat grinder, and have you convinced that you're a worthless piece of crap! (Oh, I forgot, I AM a worthless piece of crap! DOH!)
(For added bonus, just mention the two letters A.H.)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 05-03-2000).]
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Hitech you just made my day with your signature!
LMAO!
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Well HT, I wasn't taking offense, but your post "it's always interesting", suggested (and without doubt correctly) that there's more to it than what badger stated. I simply tried to state that that notwithstanding it was a fine post.
Of course, if the second "anti-HT" posting wasn't mine, I apologize for the pedantic and vain gloss (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Hey you can post in the FAII NG all ya want about AH. No one will yell at ya about it as long as you don't tell them padlock is evil and FA is a kiddie sim. Stay off those and people will listen and try out AH like me.
FAII NG:
microsoft.public.games.zone.f ighterace
I talk about AH and what it does well and needs added to FAII. At same time FAII does things I wish AH would do. Competition is good and it's nice to see what others are doing.
Trust me when I say there are plenty of mature WWII flight enthusiast at FAII that would love to give it a go. Already have hyped it to some ADVANCED flyers who never knew it existed and were interested.
Only one problem, price. Yes, I know the steeper price keeps the kiddies out but to be quite honest I have found the kiddies aren't the problem. It's the adults who get too caught up in the game and start attitudes. So I am not sure if that argument holds water. If you're a WB player $30 a month sounds like a bargain based on hourly rates. If you come from AWIII and FAII, I think the price seems steep cause we don't think in hourly rates. My thinking is this...would I purchase a new game a month? Yes and no. I don't buy that many games cause I fly online and still play my other offline games. But if the game offers everything I am looking for in a WWII sim then YES I would not mind.
HARD SCOUT
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" Its' a dog eat dog world and I'm wearing Milk Bone underwear " ( Normism )
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Badger, I agree with you about the development of WB and the changes in the market.
However I <S> the AGW people who are hanging in there with WB. If they are still having fun with the sim, and the price is not a problem, why not stay? I think it's perfectly reasonable.
All the talk means nothing ultimately. It's the product that counts. The merits of the products will determine the results of the competition, not messages on a BBS.
And I think we will have to wait a while to see what's really going on financially with these companies.
Until then enjoy the competition and the progress it brings. Sure beats the crap out of a monopoly, don't it?
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Badger great post!
I do disagree on one point. Hotseat did more to drive me away from WB than all other factors combined. I have zero respect for him at this point. I understand that he's trying to do a lot with very limited resources. However, his attitude sucks no matter how you cut it.
As to his BBS, well considering he ran it like Hitler ran Germany, no great loss IMHO!
Rest of the post rocked, keep up the good work!
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Not from me Westy, and you know i am a contributor on the boards.
NUTTZ
Originally posted by Westy:
Very, very nice read at lunch today Badger. Really sound point of view and gave me a better insight when thinking abotu what you were saying.
I'd been lambasted as a disprupter in AW about five months ago. I was the guy there who tried to keep the news fesh on other online sime - in particular AH. I ended up more or less having to stop talking about it in these private newsgroups less I be tarred and feathered
I think it would be safe to say you could replace "WB" in your above letter with "AW" but magnify the emotions and insecurities even more - they have NO AW:4 on the horizon unlike WB's who at least has a few screen shots and a company saying they are developing a sim for thier subscriber base.
-Westy
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Would this have been a better reply (The intent is the same for me)
I realy enjoy and apreciate people from outside the industry putting there minds to work about it's dynamics in such a rational fasion.
HiTech
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HT....That's it!!!!!!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Very well said Badger.And good to 'see' you again!I remember you with high regard from WB and as far back as F-OPS I believe.
Hope to see you on the AH dueling ladder that is soon to be implemented.
By-Tor 'SCREAM'IN PTERODACTYLS'
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Hi HT... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Originally posted by hitech:
Badger I belive you might have set a record for the longest post.
It's always interesting seeing people outside the industry putting there minds to work about it's dynamics.
Originally posted by hitech:
Ok gent's im totaly confused.
Ive seen 2 references to my first post in this fourm assuming that I was taking some kind of offenses to badgers writup.
I think it's a great writeup and just wish I could put my thoughts on paper in such a eloquent fashon as badger does.
Please fill me in how my first post was taken.
I understood the complimentary context of your first post. My apology and proffering the option for you to remove it, was solely based upon its overwhelming length and not any reference you made, or some feeling of a negative reaction to my message. I do appreciate your concern and subsequent posts to clarify any misconceptions. I also thank you for you the second compliment. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Although I'm licensed, since I couldn't make a living as a real life pilot, I had to learn to write and do something else to make a living. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
HiTech, the following commentary is not something I expect you to respond to. In fact, given the continuing hole that Hotseat digs himself into at iEN by too much written communication, I would encourage you not to say much else in these threads as it could just end up "spun" the wrong way. However, while I was typing this to you, I did want to add some generalization for everyone else about our miscommunication. This is a demonstrable example of what's happening with the entire WB/AH BBS issue. It's interesting to note how easy it is to read and interpret the written word so many different ways. It can take on various "spins", depending upon one's own current state of mind, as well as a natural human propensity towards a pre-conceived bias, to read into the words whatever viewpoint they wish to believe. I think HEDU made an astute observation over on AGW, which I believe was lost on most. To paraphrase, he tried to say that he felt most everyone was misunderstanding what ripsnort was saying in his posts there. After he (HEDU) really read them, it became clearer to him that ripsnort was not showing disrespect towards the WB community, but rather was wanting to enthusiastically share with his many old comrades what he had discovered by looking outside the current known world. In other words, to him the world was round, not flat, which was a new and exciting revelation. He ended up being branded as a heretic and he's obviously angry and hurt about it.
Anyway, enough said. To me WB and AH are NOT mutually exclusive, but rather complimentary to my needs as a consumer of online flight sim entertainment. If either one went away, it would be unhealthy for the future if the genre. Quite frankly, AH is the best thing that ever happened to WB and reciprocally, WWII On-line is the best thing to happen for the health of AH. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I love funked's comment "Sure beats the crap out of a monopoly, don't it?"
Regards,
Badger
[This message has been edited by Badger (edited 05-03-2000).]
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Originally posted by By-Tor:
Hope to see you on the AH dueling ladder that is soon to be implemented.
I was hoping it was you. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) It's great to see you again my friend. The old FO and WB days were tremendous.
You really think I'm going to sign up to the ladder so you can punch my lights out some more like you used to do consistently? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I fly a P51 now, just so I can run around the arena and stay ahead of some of the great pilots on here until they get tired. At that point, I follow them home and hope they crash on landing so I get the kill by being the closest to them. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Best Regards,
Badger
[This message has been edited by Badger (edited 05-03-2000).]
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Originally posted by funked:
....However I <S> the AGW people who are hanging in there with WB. If they are still having fun with the sim, and the price is not a problem, why not stay? I think it's perfectly reasonable.
Hi funked...
You make some excellent points and I hope you didn't think for a minute that my first message was a recruiting drive for AH.
That was not my intent and I agree with you about the many WB'ers who continue to play and wish to pay by the hour. They indeed should be saluted for their voluntary commitment, but your message jogged my memory about a specific group of WB's players that have no other option, except to stay. Of course, I'm speaking of the MAC crowd. I stand to be corrected, but I believe there are currently no other multiplayer on-line flight sims available for Apple users, other than WB's.
I raise the point, only because I read a narrative by MG tonight on AGW explaining his Macboy activity, by basically outlining the frustrations of being a MAC user. I sympathize with his position and respect his desire to want to continue using a technology of his own choice for all aspects of his computing needs, not just gaming. Perhaps some of that frustration did lead to excess zeal in some of his posts. I'm not trying portray his activities as being justifiable under the classic Harvey Milk "twinkies" defense, but there is some merit to using that analogy. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I didn't think it was that a big of a deal anyway and perhaps the community reaction here was blown a little out of proportion. You have to admit, it was kind of funny to read some of his supporters attempts to mitigate and minimize his messages. Have you ever heard the old expression, "we were sent to defend an indefensible position"? That just about sums up much of what I read. Some great attempts combined with some real "foot in mouth" explanations that bordered on the hilarious. All in all, a great topic and a fun read, instead of the classic "my cannon is supposed to be bigger than your cannon according to the 1944 sub paragraph D specifications" messages we normally wade through.
As Pyro said well about the Macboy (MG) issue, "Who cares? It's something to laugh about, not get upset about."
Regards,
Badger
[This message has been edited by Badger (edited 05-03-2000).]
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Yeah I agree with Pyro 100% on that one. I let MG get under my skin once and then I realized he is usually having a bit of fun with us. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Excellent post Badger, had to read it twice so my ex-grunt brain could dissect it properly (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
The attitudes being thrown off by a few on both sides are often a gut reaction defense, less common in European society but a practical social standard in America. The 2 main points vis-a-vis WB/AH price and Mac capability, the FM argument,(please don't start) is a nonstarter, because it's almost a conceptual theory discussion with a tad too much heat, Ditto artwork,bug stomping,and new versions. I do not think the Flightsim community on the whole is very
appreciative of the attitudes found on these
boards,which adds to negative impact on recruitment. I have heard us referred to as "elitist","snobs","F@#$ing know-it-alls"
And it's not coming from someone's kids,it's coming from people I do respect, and in some cases admire, who have listened to the rants on these boards and reached the conclusion that we as a whole are not working within the bounds of sanity, I cannot make a post on AGW, I'm no longer welcome there(private matter) but I will try to extend to this community some kind of moderate behavior,
yes, I know I wasn't very moderate in the FW190 thread, that was rude, and I'm sorry.
But we should not be having this constant go round of flame and contrition, We supposedly, are old enough to accept responsibility for our actions, no I do not say let's all get along, I'm a realist, I do say, even in the throes of vendetta against an assured foe, one must bear in mind that one's conduct, and the memory of it, will surely outlast both the words, and the cause of them.
To any and all, I am proud to fly with people of such talent,but I ask,
can WE live up to the caliber we display?
Wilton Stewman
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pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"
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Badger, a great post, the length was no bother at all.
HT, some people looking to add gasoline to a fire before it's lit may have mis-interpreted your post. I thought your post was just fine. Also, thanks for the link in your signature, just made my bookmark.
Fury
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<S> Badger. You made so many statements that I agree with, I can't even begin to count them.
Your in serious danger of becoming the jedi of the AH BB. I'm going to start saying in my replies "When in doubt, refer to Badger's advice." (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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(http://www.raf303.org/308/308banner.gif)
"Turning Knight & Bishop sheep into lamb chops since 1999"
[This message has been edited by banana (edited 05-04-2000).]
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Holy-cow Badger when does the condensed version come out me brain started to hurt halfway thru you post.
Yeah we are proud your a Canadian!
Now where is my friggin plane ride I don't bite ya know!!!!
Ppit.....................out check your six.
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Well, after digesting what Badger and HiTech had to say, here is my take on it all. Let me know if I am way off (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
As someone who leads a company, I boil it all down to this;
1) You set a goal
2) You make a plan to reach that goal
3) You set the plan into action with a target date in mind.
If you hit the 3 above then;
After it is all said and done, the only way you know you have reached that goal, occurs when someone from outside of all of the planning and decision making acknowledges it.
And there ya go.
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Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
President, AppLink Corp.
http://www.applink.net
skuzzy@applink.net
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I was going to post on this thread....But I don't think I can make the word count requirements. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Wab