Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Beegerite on April 16, 2000, 01:22:00 AM
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Yo! What happened? Tonight I came on late and was amazed to find that the Musketeers and Wrecking Crew had gone to the Dark Side.
Needless to say this caused a serious inbalance in the power structure since so many old hands on the Rook side flew in these two squads. What gives guys? Taxes too high? Potato Famine? Ugly women? Better looking Nit sheep? Or, heaven forbid just plain treason, please say it isn't so Benedict.
Beeger
P.S. If you'll come back we'll pay you better and you can have my sheep.
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Our sheep wear Tights ! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Saw
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I believe they were using nit bases to attack bishops and break up the gangbang.
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We made the move to actually help the Rooks, who have been getting hammered on two fronts since the last version. I think the position of center mass placement and the alt of base one, naturally focuses attention to that area.
Anyway, no hard feelings to anyone, not the Bishops, Knights, fellow Rooks or game designers. We will continue to move around in an effort to balance out this three sided war. And if that doesnt work, I would encourage Rooks to migrate accordingly, so we can have a fair playing field.
Salute to all my fellow gamers,
JagdNine
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(http://www.user.shentel.net/vonz/jagd1.JPG)
[This message has been edited by NineZ (edited 04-16-2000).]
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You know what Nine? You're right! Didn't think about that before. Best part of your post is
"fellow Rooks"
We'll also think about
"I would encourage Rooks to migrate accordingly, so we can have a fair playing field"
Guess it ain't so, Wheew!
Beeger
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If anyone is interested I did a little checking on scores for Tour 3 (16/4-2000 11:00 EST). They showed that:
41,2% of Bishop's engagements were against Knights (8830/21416).
58,8% of Bishop's engagements were against Rooks (12584/21416).
0,009% of Bishop's engagements were against Bishops (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (2/21416).
40,7% of Knight's engagements were against Bishops (8830/21684).
59,3% of Knight's engagements were against Rooks (12854/21684).
0% of Knight's engagements were against Knights (0/21684).
49,5% of Rook's engagements were against Bishops (12584/25442).
50,5% of Rook's engagements were against Knights (12854/25442).
0,016% of Rook's engagements were against Rooks (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (4/25442).
I am always Bishop myself.
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Ltn. Snefens
RO, Lentolaivue 34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
[This message has been edited by LLv34_Snefens (edited 04-16-2000).]
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Thats actually better than I thought it would be. Thanks for posting info.
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What the statistics don't show is that the 40 percent of Knights and Bishops that actually fight each other, are battling over the last Rook field. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Sorry to lose the Wrecking Crew and Musketeers, but I salute your effort to even the playing field, and improve the game. Hope you'll be back to Rookland when the tide shifts another way.
popeye
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I am just following the Squadron Commanders Orders, had he chosen Bishop, I would have found a new Rook Squadron, or started my Own.
I would rather be the lone girl in a large frat house, than a bishop!
ROOKS FOREVER! knights only temporary.
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"Downtown" Lincoln Brown.
lkbrown1@tir.com
http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1 (http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1)
Wrecking Crews "Drag and Die Guy"
Hals und beinbruch!
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Verrrry Interesting! When I posted this thread I didn't even think about using the very complete stats which AH has give us. So, I first verified these stats and ofcourse they've changed with each added kill so instead I went to tour 2 the last complete tour and found the following bottom line numbers (g'ahead and check my math if you want)
Rooks vs. Knights 40.8% of engagements
Kill to Death 1.16
Bishops 59.7% of engagements
Kill to Death 1.02
Knights v. Bishops 49.7% of engagements
Kill to Death 0.88
Rooks 50.3% of engagements
Kill to death 0.86
Bishops v. Knights 40.6% of engagements
Rooks 59.4% of engagements
Kill to Death 0.98
Seems to me that Rooks ain't been doing that bad. True, when you've got a Bish trying to stick his cone head up your six it may seem that the whole damn nation is against you but the stats from an already complete campaing show they can't kill us as much as we can kill them. They do seem to prefer Rook meat to Knights but that's probably cause we're more tender. The Knights on the other hand, seem to have been like the Hyenas after the lion picking away at what's left. The one problem I see with these changes in the balance of power is that now the Rooks are severely weakened by the loss of the vets and those Knight and Bishop vets who had been killing Rooks all along aren't going to take a vacation. This could conceivably wind up on the History Chanel's Great Military Blunders, LOL.
Y'all Come Back, You Hear!
Beeger
Originally posted by LLv34_Snefens:
If anyone is interested I did a little checking on scores for Tour 3 (16/4-2000 11:00 EST). They showed that:
41,2% of Bishop's engagements were against Knights (8830/21416).
58,8% of Bishop's engagements were against Rooks (12584/21416).
0,009% of Bishop's engagements were against Bishops (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (2/21416).
40,7% of Knight's engagements were against Bishops (8830/21684).
59,3% of Knight's engagements were against Rooks (12854/21684).
0% of Knight's engagements were against Knights (0/21684).
49,5% of Rook's engagements were against Bishops (12584/25442).
50,5% of Rook's engagements were against Knights (12854/25442).
0,016% of Rook's engagements were against Rooks (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (4/25442).
I am always Bishop myself.
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D'town!
I've never laughed so hard at a post (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
I would rather be the lone girl in a large frat house, than a bishop!
Your post brings a couple of things to mind; first this game forces choices upon us. When I first came from a sim that gave us Germans, US, Russian, Brittain and Japan I thought Huh! Rooks, Knights, Bishops what kinda Mickey Mouse crap is that? Then I began to play and saw the genius of being able to fly planes regardless of origin. Then I started developing a kind of patriotism and warm feelings for my fellow Rooks. The Bish and Nits were the enemy. Nameless targets (Another stroke of genius that keeps us from getting personal vs. the enemy. It's a job, I only kill because you're the enemy) who were trying to conquer my Rook homeland. As you say, once a Rook always a Rook forever. We need to work more closely together as we did the other night when we allied 3 squadrons and working cohesively captured base after base.
ROOKS FOREVER! knights only temporary.
Secondly, considering the patriotism I mentioned above, how much support can a Rook Squadron on temp duty expect to get from the died in the wool Nits? Would seem to me that in a heavy furball you'd better have one of your own m8s covering your six.
C'mon back guys, the motherland needs you. Don't wait until you find yourself head to head with a brother. It's only a matter of time (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Beeg
[/B][/QUOTE]
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Total Bish engagements: 21416
Total Knit engagements: 21684
Total Rook engagements: 25442
The Rooks have engaged 18% more times than the other two squads. 59% is 18% more than 50%. Wow.. go figure.
Guess you have a tendancy to feel you are being teamed up on when your team is always the biggest.
AKDejaVu
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LOL.. you guys crack me up. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Bish Objective: Kill the enemy. Take his fields. Pillage his beer; ravish his sheep. (the women got smart and left a long time ago)
Knit Objective: Kill the enemy. Take his beerhalls. Mess up his fields, and steal the Mustangs. Pillage the sheep; ravish the knockwurst, and organise nuisance HQ raids.
cRook Objective: Kill the enemy. Bemoan the loss of their own fields; swap sides and get in on the knockwurst while squeaking about gang bangs and the indiffrent sheep. Redirect traitorous inquiries from countrymen to HQ as 'play-balance'.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Hang
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Hehe...All the math being done here reminds of what I think everytime someone in my office tries to bolster their arguement with a blizzard of stats....
"Figures Lie and Liars Figure"
Not sure what all those numbers represent, but I did take screenshots since release of new version of the map during prime-time (8pm to Midnight Eastern) and the pictures do show that there is very little to no activity on the Knit-Bish Frontier.
As for the team numbers...I took snapshots of the roster as well. I am actually happy to see the Knights come on strong! Their numbers are now consistently the highest in the arena.
As for switching, might not be bad for more squads to float around a little and fly with some of their usual adversaries (some may like the idea, others may hate it). I've noticed the respect we have for some of those Knight Squads is actually mutual. There are some really great squads and sim pilots in this patch of cyber-heaven HTC has created.
Cobra
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Was fun last knight...he he..
Noticed as I logged that the bish and rooks where ganging the knights...guess it worked!
I felt quite at home in knight land with the crew and meese with me....See what people mean about field 1...Hint...its not such an advantage defensively as it is offensivly.
Hang...shut up your a goof.Why dont you take that cat of your in the shower with ya for some therapy.
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Pongo
The Wrecking Crew
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I, myself, found the new, thigh-high leather boots issued to me (not to mention the spurs and whip) sleekly ... fetching!
Waxer
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The Wrecking Crew
But the sheep in Knightland are a little too...docile...if you get my drift. Brrrrr!
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So far in 1.02 every time I've logged on there is always a big 3-sided battle going on for base 1. Since it is controlled by rooks (Why? Will it change hands after a reset?) this makes it look like bish and knight are both fighting rooks. The truth is all 3 sides are fighting for 1 and the fields adjacent to it. We knights also try very hard to control the base closest to the hill with the beer and pizza on top of it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) Judging by the stats and my own experiences, I'd say that the bish and knights often shoot at each other while fighting for rooks #1 base.
I think if base 1 rotated ownership after a reset, then whatever country happened to own it would be attacked there by the other 2 sides. A 10k advantage almost guarantees a victory by providing a huge altitude advantage. This is probably the reason for the slight Rook advantage in K/D against the other 2 countries. Having an alt advantage and shooting at bombers can only help one's k/d. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Here's my own k/d stats versus each country as of now: bloom25 has 34 kills and has been killed 16 times against the Rooks. and for bish bloom25 has 20 kills and has been killed 22 times against the Bishops. Looks to me to be pretty even considering that I've primarilly been fighting near base 1. (Also looks like I need to find a couple of bish to shoot down to avenge my 2 more losses vs kills to them. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) )
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bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
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last night when TWC changed to the Knights there wasn't a single solitary marker in the southwest corner of the map. I'm pretty sure there were bishops fighting knights and vice-versa, however; they were doing so over our territory and racing each other to capture our fields. It's been this way since the release of 1.02, with only 2 (3 I'm told, but was present for 2) breaks for the rooks digging into bishland (only to promptly loose it a few hours later).
As far as rooks having more engagements than either bish or nit that's easy. We're fighting BOTH countries simultaneously. Look at the stats posted by snefens. 58.8% of bish engagements were with rooks. 59.3% of knit engagements were on rooks. Rooks have engaged both bish and knit almost 50/50 (49.5/50.5). Real easy for us to have more engagment when we're defending one field against both bish and knits.
Alot of people think I'm just a whiner about the gangbang. If you think that, you are one of those propagating the gangbang. Just watch the map. Most nights the southwestern area is deserted. Sometimes there are 1 or 2 icons in that area. Then there are the times that both the bish and knits are after field A1 at the same time. This leads to alot of bish-knit engagements too.
::shrug::
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Knights? Bishops? Rooks?
Who gives a rats ass????
Ya fight your enemy, it is a simple as that!
If that is not simple to ya, then you got more problems than trying to figure out who to fly for. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Remember if ya shoot down someone a few times one night and then expect that particular pilot to protect you the next, ya might not get the urgency you think you expect. I would always attempt to help a fellow countryman out, but with some ya just don't know.
The arena here switches around so much as who has the advantage or disadvantage it should not be the determinate factor on why a individual would change countires.
I fly Knights during good times and bad, regardless. I would only change if my squadron did. If they changed to bishops I might decline, due to my feeling toward the bishop country.
Just my feeling, not to be shared by all!
Have a nice day!
PS Jagdnine! Nice Signature Photo!!!
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Swager
II/JG2~Richthofen~
"Damn.....I can't believe I missed that shot!!!"
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/swager.gif)
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
[This message has been edited by Swager (edited 04-16-2000).]
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All other things being equal I like to attack the one that's going to whine about it the loudest. We used to hit the knights a lot, but they never complained, just fought back. More recently we've discovered that the rooks squeal very nicely when poked, followed by innumerable conspiracy theories.
This makes for not only the enjoyment of the Aces High model, but also the greatly amusing channel 1 protests.
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Fatty
FAT DRUNK BASTARDS (http://fdb.50megs.com)
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OMG fatty- I almost peed my pants reading that <snicker>
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Too true fatty..unfortunatly...I guess that if you gangbang them it really makes em whine..
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Pongo
The Wrecking Crew
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"Mass Rook Defections "
Is that what explains the Big pile of sh*** that stands in the middle of the new map ?
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I am the STUPENDOUS MAN !
Some call me Misterious X !
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I think that one major factor has been missed here.
Didn't anyone else notice that the Knight's for som cod forsaken reason DO NOT fight other Knights? Something seriously wrong with those 'poepl' !
If you look at the Rooks you'll see fratricide is right up there! Hoo yuh! Sixteen percent!
The Biscuits have a dismal one percent but even thats better than the NONE percent of the Kuh,,,niggits!
-Westy
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I agree with what Swager posted. I don't attack a country for the content of what one does to another, I simply consider Rooks and Bish (I'm Knight) an "Axis", therefore, I attack whichever flank seems to be the weakest. I often change fields, and plane types, and vehicle types 2-4 times in a 2 hour session. Unfortunatly, as of late, it seems to be in a defensive mode, but alas, that is part of WAR!
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Ripsnort(-rip1-)
I/JG2~Richthofen~
JG2 Communications Officer
Aces High Training Corps
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
(http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/ripsnort.jpg)
Turning Spitfires into Bud Lite cans since 1992
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 04-17-2000).]
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well i guess i can say that i attack the rooks more. i dont know about the rest is the bish. but when people start yelling. i will do what is bothering them the most. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
it does not matter if the person complaining is on my team or not. when i hear one of my own team mates yelling at everyone else because we are defending a base that he has decided should not be defended or not attacking the field he decides.i will often go the field that he tells us not to defend. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
i do the same with the people on chanel one. depending who is bothering me the most is the one i will arttack. we allways have a two sided war so i can find a fight against eather side
Trell
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This gang banging is really about A1. Of course everyone wants that field. The advantage of that field is ridiculous and counterproductive to game play. Hopefully HTC will fix this with the next release.
Sour
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Sourkraut
JG-2 Richthofen (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2)
"Hey - someone has to be the target...."
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/saurkraut.gif)
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Even if this was about the Knights (where I usually fly) I would have to laugh! Too funny! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Originally posted by Fatty:
All other things being equal I like to attack the one that's going to whine about it the loudest. We used to hit the knights a lot, but they never complained, just fought back. More recently we've discovered that the rooks squeal very nicely when poked, followed by innumerable conspiracy theories.
This makes for not only the enjoyment of the Aces High model, but also the greatly amusing channel 1 protests.
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The funny part IMO comes into play if you are the gangbanger or the gangbangee.
Typically the gangbanger thinks it is fun and is funny. This is because they are winning and not whining.
The gangbangee thinks that it is not so fun and it gets old. This is because they are losing and are whining.
Read the above comments in this thread and pick out who is on the gangbang side and who is on the gangbanged. It is not so hard. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I have to agree that wether it is a gangbang, map induced or what ever. I don't see much activity in the South West portion of the map. I assumed this to be the Knit Biff border and indicating that they are not fighting each other. At least not fighting there, as 85% of the activity revolves around the North Eastern portion of the map.
I noticed this the first day that version 1020 came out and I have noticed it ever since. I never really understood why, except that possibly because the game can't be won and the gangbang is an attempt to do so by attacking the weakest opponent. The mind set becomes, hacking these guys off by porking their area vice winning the war.
I also noticed large raids out of Biffland into Rookland that were basically un-opposed. Then I read heralds in this BBS of great battle prowness. That I thought was funny.
<Salute> (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by Minotaur (edited 04-17-2000).]
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I like it when I first sign on and find that Rooks are hopelessly outnumbered (seen it as high as 65-28), hopelessly defensive, and fighting a two-front war.
Two to three hours later, the numbers have turned and now the Rooks hopelessly outnumber the other individual teams (but not the combined amounts). And then you get to hear all about how the Rooks always outnumber the other teams (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (although since I squelch 1 I don't hear that anymore). I get a big grin out of that.
Fury
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Lets clear this up once and for all! ... The only reason the Wrecking Crew and Musketeers moved to the Nits is becuase they have a better dental plan! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
-Sn1p3r
(http://crystal.cleardata.net/~bpetting/snipe-escort-old.jpg)
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Originally posted by Sn1p3r:
Lets clear this up once and for all! ... The only reason the Wrecking Crew and Musketeers moved to the Nits is becuase they have a better dental plan! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
-Sn1p3r
(http://crystal.cleardata.net/~bpetting/snipe-escort-old.jpg)
And God knows you guys need a good dental plan!
(http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/bobbyjoe.jpg)
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ROFLMAO!
Too funny. Hey Rip... just say 'NO!' to rooks. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Hang (Last time i tell Bubba to "bite this!")
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Minotaur, I think what you say is true, but across the board.
I have seen all sides gloat at their wondrous prowess when unopposed.
I have been on the receiving end of vultches and gangbangs from every side. No side is innocent.
Only two things are sure on any night; one side will be mobbed, and the the other two sides will be doing it.
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I have 2 observations:
1. Having a very desireable field gives the furballers a place to congregate and beat the crap out of each other. This is a good thing IMHO. It also lets players who value "strat" and field capture do their thing away from the main ruckus, so quite a bit of field capture can go on away from the furball near A1.
2. Shut up and kill. If you're outnumbered, your K/D and K/S WILL GO UP over time. It's called a target rich environment. Of course, you can't be stupid about it... If the field you insist on rolling from is capped by 20 bandits, you're probably not going to survive very long. If however you can get 2-3 friends to follow you to a large gaggle of enemies, you're going to start racking up the kills.
FWIW, the squealing Pigs got whatever reputation we have over the years by working well together under all circumstances. The guys in my squadron have no problem whatsoever taking 4 pigs into double our numbers of enemies, and we honestly expect to kill everyone and RTB. It's not that we're that good individually (although some pigs really ARE that good), mostly it's because we watch each other's back and don't all go chasing after the first bandit we see.
Example - 4 pigs fly off to find a furball. One pig gets killed shortly after takeoff by a flakpanzer (I can't resist strafing those things), so he replanes and chases off after the other 3. Soon, the lone pig hears radio calls about a furball the 3 pigs are involved in, so he uses WEP to catch up. Instead of flying direct at low alt though, the fourth little piggy grabs some altitude enroute so he's not useless when he shows up. Sure enough, the 4th pig arrives and sees only 2 piggies left alive, but they're both in offensive positions. What does the 4th little pig do?
Does he -
1. Dive in and try to get a quick kill
2. Scope the situation out and intercept the bandit just entering the fight from med-high alt?
3. Wait while the high bandit dives on the 2 pigs (blowing all his energy in the process) before diving in to kill the now low energy bandit?
4. Find a low bandit being chased by a dozen friendlies and join the chase?
Most pigs will automatically choose #2, because as a general rule we trust each other to provide cover and 6 clearing instead of everyone chasing after the low bandit hoping they luck out and get the kill. Most of the people who whine about being outnumbered are the ones who gaggle about chasing after low enemy runstangs, then act suprised when they get picked off one by one as they're drug under a cloud of higher bandits.
What the cluebird is trying to say, is that when you're outnumbered, working together even just a little bit can result in consistent multiple-kill sorties and a much better chance that you'll RTB to land your kills. On top of that, being outnumbered means that there are more stupid bandits to kill (all bandits are stupid, otherwise they wouldn't be bandits duh) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
It's a little tougher sometimes when your country is outnumbered especially if you're only in it for the field capture or strat elements of the game. If you're in it for the air combat however, being outnumbered is the way to go. If necessary, just grab a stang, climb to 50k, and motor around looking for single bandits away from the main fights (remind anyone of eman?). Your kill/hour will probably be pretty low and you'll have to run away all the time (remind anyone of eman?), but you'll survive and probably rack up a number of kills along the way.
I of course prefer to get a few friends and dive into the nearest furball, but that's just 'cause it usually works.
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eagl <squealing Pigs> BYA
Oink Oink To War!!!
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LOL Eagl!
Nice treatsie on how to fight in an arena enviornment.
I take it yah didn't like Eman?? My favorite meal. Takin him down was always a rip. "You salamander! You just wasted a 23 kill streak!!"
LOL!
Hang
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Originally posted by Kieren:
Minotaur, I think what you say is true, but across the board.
I have seen all sides gloat at their wondrous prowess when unopposed.
I have been on the receiving end of vultches and gangbangs from every side. No side is innocent.
Only two things are sure on any night; one side will be mobbed, and the the other two sides will be doing it.
CC Kieren! Your re-comments show wisdom.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I think possibly the new map has more to do with it. It seems to draw the fight to the NE for some reason. Maybe it is as simple as the NE sector has horizontal and vertical borders, which are easier to define. The South and West sectors border is on a diagonal. Makes you feel like you are attacking upward, vice downward.
IMO global gloating shows bad taste, particularly if my team has numbers. However; I might gloat a little in private even if I realize the reason why......
Good Luck and Thanks! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
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If anyone is interested I did a little checking on scores for Tour 3 (16/4-2000 11:00 EST). They showed that:
41,2% of Bishop's engagements were against Knights (8830/21416).
58,8% of Bishop's engagements were against Rooks (12584/21416).
0,009% of Bishop's engagements were against Bishops (2/21416).
40,7% of Knight's engagements were against Bishops (8830/21684).
59,3% of Knight's engagements were against Rooks (12854/21684).
0% of Knight's engagements were against Knights (0/21684).
49,5% of Rook's engagements were against Bishops (12584/25442).
50,5% of Rook's engagements were against Knights (12854/25442).
0,016% of Rook's engagements were against Rooks (4/25442).
I am always Bishop myself.
I decieded to do a little recheck on the scores. I looked at current numbers (21/5-2000 22:30 EST) and subtracted them with the numbers above here. That way I got result from the last small week:
58,9% of Bishop's engagements were against Knights (8531/14475).
41,9% of Bishop's engagements were against Rooks (5942/14475).
77,4% of Knight's engagements were against Bishops (8531/11028).
22,6% of Knight's engagements were against Rooks (2479/11028).
70,4% of Rook's engagements were against Bishops (5942/8439).
29,6% of Rook's engagements were against Knights (2497/8439).
I still fly only Bishops, and agree to what some say here that having A1 is actually more of a disadvantage. Not only does it draw attention from the two other countries, but more importantly most of your country men seem more interested in attacing OUT of this field than defending your back land that is being overrun unopposed. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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Ltn. Snefens
RO, Lentolaivue 34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)