Aces High Bulletin Board

Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: Blue Mako on January 12, 2002, 05:10:19 AM

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: Blue Mako on January 12, 2002, 05:10:19 AM

412th AAR as seen through the eyes of BLUEmako, a member of the gallant Luftwaffe fighting the dreaded Russians and their Allies.  (Note:  final tally may not be 100% accurate)

The 412th launched Ju88s in a bid to crush the Allied onslaught.  We reached our combat altitude and headed towards the target area trailing another courageous Luftwaffe group.  We were diverted to our secondary target while onroute as the preceding group had smashed the primary target.  We headed for an Allied supply depot and destroyed it with high explosive bombs.  While proceeding downrange from the first run, a lone La5 managed to pick off a bomber that had wandered away from the main group due to unknown problems.  The same La5 then proceeded to attack the main force of bombers, a suicidal move!  The La5 was last seen headed down with parts missing from his plane.

Having destroyed our target, the 412th headed towards friendly territory, diverting to destroy a forward vehicle base along the way.  Having reached a friendly airfield, the bombers entered the landing pattern, just as a group of La5's came into view.  Several of our bombers were lost due to the cowadly attacks, however our gallant gunners succeeding in blotting several more of the Russian terrorists from the air in the process.

3 bombers were still in the air and by this stage desperately short of fuel.  We proceeded to a southern airbase to land and rearm in preparation for another strike.  As we taxied up to the rearming shack, another La5 was seen on the horizon.  It quickly approached the field and began to strafe our aircraft on the ground, another cowardly attack!  Fortunately two of our crews got their aircraft into the protection of the hangars and only one aircraft was lost, unfortunately the crew with it too.

Final tally for the 412th:

Primary target destroyed by another group.
Secondary target 90+% destroyed.
Forward vehicle base bombed as target of opportunity.
3 La5's killed, 2 more probable.

3 aircraft recovered safely, 1 aircraft lost due to alien abduction, 6 aircraft lost to enemy action.

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: ghostdancer on January 12, 2002, 07:08:48 AM

BLACK SEA FRAME 3 AAR

Nightmares VMF-101 did well tonight in the TOD all things considered. Drex joined us again and OZK and Fdutchmn also made it even though they would not. So over all Nightmares VMF-101 put up 15 pilots.
 
Nightmares VMF-101 launched out of A57 heading west and then circled back toward east. Our designate mission was to sweep A18 and D43 to the east (about 4 sectors away) to make sure the JU88s got in and hit D43. For the most part we kept good formation on our flight to A18 / D43 although we were a little strung out but everyone was in sight so it was not too bad.
 
At A18 we spotted medium alt (15K) and below La5Ns. The Arabian Knights or JG51 engaged them as well as us. And they were quickly cleaned up with no losses .. but I am not sure if we got any kills either at this point. But we did spot a at least 5 La5Ns landing to refuel and others also low around there base.
 
Previously I had I declared a hard deck of 15K for the Nightmares but I figured if we could catch them low on fuel and trying to rearm or reup that we would make mince meat out of them. At the very least we would keep them low and prevent them from getting up to alt and intercepting the the JU88s which were inbound.
 
So we dropped en masse on them. We bagged 10 kills (all La5Ns) low over A18. While losing I think 2 to AA fire (myself and I think 9Lives) and Fdutchm took a fuel hit and had to ditch later from an AA hit and we lost 4 in air to air combat with the La5Ns. So it was 10 of them for 5 of us (2 to 1 kill ratio). We also took out 4 AA guns at A18.

However,  we were running short of fuel and so I order to break off and rtb. Fortunately the AKs who had stayed high were able to cover the JU88s while they were coming in (but then again their were no high La5Ns left).
 
Originally everyone was heading to A48 to re-arm and refuel but after being tasked to sweep the A3 area next I ordered everyone to rearm and refuel at A47 instead. MrKil, Drex, Ramesis, OZK, KiDFury went there while RLD and DRGNFLY went to A48.
 
Now this is where things go interesting. We landed at A47 only to find out that there were no rearm pads at the base. The Arabian Knights and JG51 survivors also landed there and could not find the rearm pad. So basically the whole Axis offensive ground to halt as the survivors of 3 squads (Nightmares VMF-101, Arabian Knights, and JG51 .. probably around 15 planes) milled about trying to find where the non-existent rearm pad was.
 
Then 2 Yaks came screaming in and scrafed the planes milling about on the ground. I ordered people to get out of there planes and Ramesis did but OZK took a hit from one of the Yaks big 37 mm guns just before he could get out and blew up. However, MrKil, KiDFury and Drex (on vapors) got airborne again and KiDFury bagged a Yak (even though KiDFury was smoking) and Drex bagged the other Yak. Then La5Ns came screaming in but at this point all of our guys (3) at A47 were able to get out of their planes safely. Although I can't remember if Drex stayed up a little bit longer and got a La5N kill or not .. I think he did.
 
Meanwhile the survivors of the 412th (3) landed down at A3 (where a lone La5N scrafed and got one of them). DRGNFLY and RLD had rearmed at A48 which did have a rearm pad and were headed south to A8. They picked up the La5N that had scrafed the 412th at A3 and chased him back to A8. They were the last 2 Axis planes up chasing the last Russian plane.
 
Well DRGNFLY was low alt and got nailed by the AA at the A8 while high alt 88 mm AA got a lucky hit on RLD and killed him. And the lucky La5N got home.
 
So here are our stats:
 

Launched      : 15
RTB           :  4
Ditched       :  1
KIA air combat:  6
KIA AA        :  4
Kills         : 12
AA destroyed  :  4

   
And here are the individual stats for the night:
 

Drex    = 4 Kills, 3 Assists
Fdutchmn= 3 Kills
Pyroman = 2 Kills
KiDFury = 2 Kills
Concho  = 1 Kill
DRGNFLY = 2 Assists
RLD     = 1 Assist

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: daddog on January 12, 2002, 07:39:36 AM

Was up at 5:30 AM just to see if the BB was up and what happened last night. Enjoyed the two AAR's and looking for more. :)

I tried for 40 minutes to log on to fly in the TOD but my ISP was down. :( This morning all is well. :)

Sorry rip, you were short a tanker because I was not there. I do want to know how the tank battle went. Tell me more, tell me more guys...

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: Sancho on January 12, 2002, 07:40:35 AM

56th FG flew La5s from 18.  Personnel in attendance:

Red Flight:
[list=1]

• ammo: RTB
• oblittoo: 1 Me109 damaged, RTB
• sancho: RTB
• nomde: RTB
• pollock: RTB
[/list=1]

No kills, no losses, only saw one 109 the whole frame.

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: sax on January 12, 2002, 09:36:35 AM

13th Tas launched La5<2 only> from A18 to A3.

Destroyed some minor ground targets, rtb A8

Re-arm and attack D44. Destroy buildings ect. One hanger at A3.
1 lone 109 defending, kills Beemer, killed by Sax.

Rtb A8 again, return to A3 to desrtoy hanger. Encounter 2 JU88's
on re-arm pad, strafe both, kill one.

RTB A8, encounter 2 109's, drag them into ack, both dead.

Ripsnort had a hell of a good frame

Sax

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: JoeCrip on January 12, 2002, 10:00:05 AM

JG51 did pretty well over all. We took off from a57 as ordered and headed to the a18 area at about 25k. As we hit the a18 area, we saw some 15k la5's. Us and the Nightmares went down lo and slaughtered em :)

Sovet: 3 La5's bagged
JoeCrip: Got 2
Ceprt32: 2 La5's
Everyone Else: Zip

At that point we had to RTB, at a47, only to find that there were no re-arm pads. I made a joke to sling,

"How Much did the allies pay you do do this sling?"

I repeat, it was only a JOKE. After I made the joke, i was proplemty banned from the Special events arena for 60 mins.

I hate to say it, but typical atitude of someone with banning power: "If they cant help you, ban you"

I forget who has the signature "Power corrupts" but i think that would defintally would apply here. ( iremember now, it was Preon1 :) )

But up intill the banning incident, i was having loads of fun. all squad who participated.

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: JoeCrip on January 12, 2002, 10:22:58 AM

edited

Title: You'd be surprised
Post by: Dinger on January 12, 2002, 11:11:53 AM

A. Last I heard, AH CMs don't get comp'ed accounts.

B. There was some confusion over the rearm pad thing.  It turns out in the Black Sea terrain, they are destructible.  So when the bombers worked over 47, they killed the refueling facilities.

C. Great AARs. I'll just add what I know to the story.

The 308th lifted from 18 with 6 La5s (FunkedUp/dasko CFIT/Samm Hazed/Durr).  We were assigned to perform a high-altitude sweep of A3 before the NOE Il2 strike.  Of course, the IL2s arrived before we got there.  We were also one of many squadrons doing the same task with minimal coordination, so we spent most of our patrol time chasing each other.  Anyway, we didn't see any enemy fighters.

The 56th FG covered us as we and the 13 TAS refueled at 8 and loaded bombs.  We then headed for D44 I think.  56th and the TAS deacked it, then we came in and plastered it.  Funked ordered us to keep 100 rounds in the box in case of a contingency.  At bingo ammo we circled and reformed while a couple of Il2s chewed up what was left.
We then got a contact report of 190s on the ground at A47, so we headed that way.  At this point, Durr suffered a total failure of his primary flight controls and had to RTB on trim tabs and blip throttle.  Hazed slid into Funked's element.
Samm and I were the first element into the 47 area.  I called out traffic on the ground and Funked's element engaged.  I went after some low dots (the strafers reported a couple FWs getting off the ground); they turned out to be Ju88s.  I charged at the lead.  He turned towards me (turns out he was transitioning from base to final, but at 3000 AGL), and I sprayed into his cockpit then pulled up hard to avoid the HO -- on tape we passed within 30 yards.  He exploded.  I continued into a high-yoyo, then picked up another one heading to the field.  I slid in behind him, and squeezed off a burst into the left wing.  Parts flew off.  I squeezed again into the left wing.  The right engine started smoking.  I squeezed again.  Nothing.  I pulled up hard, taking several rounds to the fuselage, and went to cover Samm, who was finishing off another bird.  Hazed picked up my smoker and gave him a good chase, causing a fuel leak before he too ran out of ammo.
Somewhere in all this I saw dasko floating in a chute.  The rest of us RTB'd.
We landed in formation just as Durr touched down on the crossing runway.

D. So Blue Mako, here's what happened on our side:
  1) From radio reports, that La5 last seen spinning towards the ground was piloted by banana.  He lost a wingtip but landed on the runway.
  2) In the melee as you were trying to land at 47, one La5 was destroyed.
  3) We want to know, did that smoking Ju88 make it home? It looked survivable to us.

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: AN on January 12, 2002, 12:00:51 PM

sax:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re-arm and attack D44. Destroy buildings ect. One hanger at A3.
1 lone 109 defending, kills Beemer, killed by Sax.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Must've been me in the 109.  Good to know I took at least
one of ya with me, even if I did have to resort to a blatant
headon shot to do it. :)

anRky

Edit:
(well, after looking at the results, I guess it wasn't me.  And
I didn't get credit for the La5 I headon'ed, darnit!  :P)

Another Edit:
(after looking closer, I figure it *was* me, since both of ya'll
got partial credit for my hide.  Still, it's good to know the La5
did go down, even though I must've died before he did.)

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: Raubvogel on January 12, 2002, 01:01:49 PM

It would be nice to know ahead of time that the rearm pads were destructible. That certainly would have influenced my plans. Thanks to all the Axis guys who did a great job until the rearm fiasco.

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: ljkdern on January 12, 2002, 02:01:10 PM

I was in a JU88 that tried to find the fuel pad at 47.....then Swagger and I went west to another base and found refuel pads but it wouldnt give us anything. I had a lot of fun.....but I got kind of frustrated at the end....it even gave me a ditch when I went to tower...even though I was on the runway. Oh well maybe next time things will be better.

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: Nifty on January 12, 2002, 04:48:53 PM

I was flight lead for the 332nd Flying Mongrels as Daddog wasn't able to connect, and Ghost was our tank volunteer.

Origin - A18
Target - A47 hangars
La-5FN, 100% fuel, 2x100kg bombs.
 
Pilots  - deSelys, TeeeRex, Vaderr, banana, Blutik (had a stick problem and couldn't fly though), Starbird, BBanzai, Imp, Sarge1 and myself.  (Ghost was our volunteer for the tank squad.)
 
We were paired up with the 457th Bomb Group led by DRILL.  We launched north, and I took a few pilots immediately to 47 to deack the field while Drill gained alt with the rest of our group and his group.  
 
We arrived at the field uneventfully, and proceeded to take out the two gun emplacements.  The timing was perfect as Drill's flight was just a few minutes out.  We had barely enough time to drop our bombs and get out of the way before the 457th came down for their runs.  Two hangars went down, and I called the Mongrels back to A18 to rearm and proceed to patrol around the depot southeast of 18.  The 457th reported that the remaining hangar went down and they RTBed as well.
 
We landed at A18 and began to get fueled up when calls of cons came in.  At least 8 Ju88s (I believe there were more) and at least 12 FW190s showed up (again, I believe there were MORE than 12 190s.)  We got in the air, and climbed north before being overtaken by a flight of higher fighters.  We turned back to the south, and waited.  Eventually, the 190s came down and we began evading, trying desperately to get a shot while calling for each other to break.  One by one we went down, managing only a few hits on the enemy.  I think Star reported one down, and Vaderr too.  I'm not sure.  Eventually, only banana remained and he mangaged to separate from the 190s.    The 457th faired no better, and lost their entire squad.
 
banana managed to corral 8 Ju88's and attacked them.  He took one out, at the expense of most of his right wing.  He RTBed to A45, where he was helped in by the friendly control tower staff.  ;)
 
All in all, we lost ALL but 1 La5, and managed maybe 3 air to air kills, and 3 hangars down (jointly with the 457th.)
 
Not a good showing for our 2nd half, but we got the initial job done, and done well!   all.  We didn't have much of a chance with those 190s above us like that.
 
Ghost will have to fill you in on the tanking, though it sounds like our tankers mopped the floor with them!  ;)   ghost!

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: Sling on January 12, 2002, 06:24:32 PM

Joe you and your little buddy Soviet need to think a little harder to exactly what was being said Friday night in the event.  I didnt know that the rearm pads were destructible untill I checked the logs later in the event and found this out.  I also dont know ahead of time what the objectives are for each side.  That was why I was asking Raub if 47 was on his target list.  My thinking was that if it wasnt part of his list then it is his own fault for trying to use it when it doesnt have re-arm capabilities...especially if he didnt check it out ahead of time.

 As soon as I found out that it was one of his objectives, I started trying to figure out why it didnt have re-arm pads.  In my research, I checked the logs and saw that they were destroyed in the Allies first attack.  I explained this in the arena to those who were still around.  As I also explained in the arena, I dont design the maps....I had no idea this was going to happen.

As far as you getting ejected Joe....yes I did eject you.  Your first comments were taken as a joke, but to continue to berate the map designers and the CM team in my opinion was unacceptable.  As I explained to Soviet last nite while he was fighting your battle for you in the MA, if Daddog or banana had been there you would have been gone a lot sooner than when I kicked you.

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: Soviet on January 12, 2002, 06:45:24 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Sling
Joe you and your little buddy Soviet need to think a little harder to exactly what was being said Friday night in the event.  I didnt know that the rearm pads were destructible untill I checked the logs later in the event and found this out.  I also dont know ahead of time what the objectives are for each side.  That was why I was asking Raub if 47 was on his target list.  My thinking was that if it wasnt part of his list then it is his own fault for trying to use it when it doesnt have re-arm capabilities...especially if he didnt check it out ahead of time.

 As soon as I found out that it was one of his objectives, I started trying to figure out why it didnt have re-arm pads.  In my research, I checked the logs and saw that they were destroyed in the Allies first attack.  I explained this in the arena to those who were still around.  As I also explained in the arena, I dont design the maps....I had no idea this was going to happen.

As far as you getting ejected Joe....yes I did eject you.  Your first comments were taken as a joke, but to continue to berate the map designers and the CM team in my opinion was unacceptable.  As I explained to Soviet last nite while he was fighting your battle for you in the MA, if Daddog or banana had been there you would have been gone a lot sooner than when I kicked you.

listen, he only said it once as a joke, i don't know where your coming up with these figures of multiple offensive remarks.

And the fact that you didn't know that the rearm pads were destructible amazes me, you are a CM after all.  You should have let us re up for a fault on your part.

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: Sling on January 12, 2002, 07:29:03 PM

Whatever Soviet....I am not going to argue with you about what you saw and felt was happening and what I saw.  

In most terrains, the re-arm pads are not destroyable as far as I know.  How would you expect me to know that they were on this terrain since the subject has never come up before?  Like I said during the event....I dont design the terrains, I just do the setup for Friday nights.  I had no idea that you could even make re-arm pads destructable....now if that means I am not qualified to be a CM then that is your opinion.  To tell you the truth, right now I am trying to decide if its worth it enough to put up with the amount of grief that I have had to listen to over this incident.

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: Nifty on January 12, 2002, 07:48:32 PM

All I'm gonna say is my squad took out the pad.  I didn't even believe my squaddie when he said he did it.  It wasn't until after the Ch 1 commotion that it dawned on me what had possibly happened (and what actually did happen.)  I PMed sling about it, and he confirmed it from the logs.

I wouldn't blame Sling for it.  He didn't make the terrain, and he wasn't informed of the refuel pad being vulnerable.

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: Vulcan on January 12, 2002, 07:49:54 PM

my 2 cents worth about the A47 incident.

We had hit A3, bagged some 109s, rtb'd to A8. Rip ordered us (me, Acid, Swat222) back to A3 when reports came in of the fight over A18. I suggested we vector to intercept in case the LW rtb'd to 47. We did just that. Half way between A18 and A47 we spot a huge flight of aircraft. I cried for Stalin and we gave chase. As we were giving chase the escort dropped towards 47, it was clear we hadn't been spoted.

Rearm pads or not you LW guys were screwed. I bagged one Ju88 behind the main bunch but got torn up by another so was unable to keep on going.

But, from my lovely silk view I could clearly see the LW on finals into A47 and immediately ordered Acid and Swat222 to go fuel wep and hit you guys OTR.

IMHO rearm pads or not you would've been screwed. Its not like we were 10 mins behind you. You had a couple of Yaks with 37mm coming in right behind you fast and furious...

Title: I will post this twice so Sling see's it
Post by: JoeCrip on January 12, 2002, 08:15:20 PM

edited

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: JoeCrip on January 12, 2002, 08:30:25 PM

edited

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: ghostdancer on January 12, 2002, 11:15:40 PM

Vulcan hate to disagree with you but the guys at A47 were not screwed even if there were rearms pads in place. What you caught / spotted was the tail end of 4 squads landing there .. Nightmares VMF-101, Arabian Knights, JG51 and part of the 412th. If what you saw were 190s with JU88s I think you caught part of the 412th and JG51st on their way back.

In the case of the Nightmares and the Arabian Knights we were on the ground looking for the rearm pad for like 6 minutes at least and possibly more. If the rearm pad was there there would have probably been at least 5 - 10 190s refueled and climbing for at least 5 minutes 30 seconds (possibly longer) before you guys all came in.

Now I still believe that the several planes would have been nailed on the ground by fast incoming Russian planes, just like what happened. But it could not have been as bad as it was. Can't really tell but can only conjecture but I think what would have happened is the 3 La5Ns came in and there had been 10 rearmed 190s up.

So saying we would have been screwed anyway even if the pads were there .. well yes and no. Nightmares and Arabian Knights would have been the no (planes refueled and up 5 Nightmares and ?5-7? Arabian Knights). JG51 and 412th would have been the yes, since you caught them low of fuel trying to land.

It would have been interesting with the Russians having an alt advantage over a larger numbers of lower 190s.

Oh, I just so everyone knows I am not whining about the situation at the rearm pads. It happened and I have no real problem with and don't blame the CM or anyone. I am just saying that I don't believe the axis would have been automatically screwed no matter what at A47.

As for the CMs and C in C .. how the heck would they know that it was even possible to destroy the rearm pads? They can't check everybase and every structure on the map and its not there job to do so. The CMs just load the scenario tables to setup the arena and C in C creates the plan for his side. Neither really have the time to go and test every possible thing and variable on the map. I mean there can be a bug at one base and not on another. It is very possible that only the rearm pad at A47 has a flaw in it that allows it to be destroyed. Only way to find out is for somebody to go try to destroy the rearm pad at another base. And if you take it to its logical end .. they would have to test all bases. This is not there job or the C in C job.

Now I would say that somewhere I read that maybe a group of map testers need to be create. Who a map can be submitted too and then they would have all the time they need to test the map and try to find bugs and document strange things. They would do this before the map was put in general use. And you can even have it so that the map can't go into general use until they finish testing and sign off on it.

Okay thats my two cents.

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: JaCkNiFe on January 13, 2002, 12:42:37 AM

LOL man that was great strafing you guys OTR :) for letting us:) but i felt bad when i found out u couldnt do much about it... no Rearm pads... :\ but it was still fun :) i think i got like 5 or 6 OTR :rolleyes: :(

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: daddog on January 13, 2002, 01:39:51 AM

Great AAR's! :) Really enjoyed them!

Now for the unpleasent business.

Quote

And the fact that you didn't know that the rearm pads were destructible amazes me, you are a CM after all. You should have let us re up for a fault on your part.

Come on sling you're a CM after all. You should know all this. Your not "just" a player, you're a CM! Jeeze!

Soviet, Joe, I am really sorry we are such screw up's. It is just real tough to get good hired help these day's. I am just glad you did not call HTC and tell them what a corrupt and moronic group we are. He might have pulled the plug on us.

Tell you what I am going to do. Since the TOD's are so stressful I think it is a good idea you both to take a month off. After that, if you think you can put up with us you can send me an e-mail and we will talk about it. Besides the next TOD is another one of those terrains the CM's made. You don't want to take part in that.

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: snafu on January 13, 2002, 05:01:22 AM

Perhaps Joe & soviet could run there own scenario. I would love to take part in what would be such a flawless event :rolleyes:

TTFN
snafu

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: Wotan on January 13, 2002, 05:42:12 AM

I like the idea that the rearm pads can be destroyed....

but is the a terrain design or can the cms set what structures are "killable" (ie..towers etc.........?)

Any was this the last frame or will we redo the 2nd frame?

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: JoeCrip on January 13, 2002, 07:03:01 AM

edited

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: vmfRazor on January 13, 2002, 08:01:32 AM

Sling don't back down. I was still in the room motoring my T34 back home and reading the chat on ch1. I musta left before the boot out of those guys. But I kept thinking to myself "Why don't he just boot these guys!" After listening to all the cries of the mapmaker being a moron and stuff I was getting fed up with it. Sundog is a squaddie m8 of mine and I know he doesn't get to fly that much he's always working on the terrains and trying to make them better and better.

I've never been a CM or a map designer or anything like that, but I was a football official for 5 years for high school and below. Very similarly this is a thankless job that can only take a couple aholes to ruin the whole experience for you.  Sure I got paid to officiate but it barely covered the cost of the equipment I bought every year to be able to do the job. And everytime one of those jerk coaches jumps up in you're face and berates you for making a tough call they don't agree with, makes you Question WHY THE HELL AM I PUTTING UP WITH THIS !!!??? All I had to do to answer that question was to turn around and look at the kids on the feild and how happy they are just to get to play. And the realisation that without you these kids wouldn't get to play this game, and the whole thing comes back into focus. When just one of those kids over hundreds of games, comes up to you after the game and says "Thanks for the good time" it makes it all worth it.

The same holds true here. Without guys like Sling, Daddog, Sundog, Exile,and any other CM, Mapmaker, or anybody at all even remotely involved in putting an event together. US OVERGROWN KIDS WOULD NEVER GET TO HAVE FUN IN THESE GREAT EVENTS! Think of us when the times get rough to do you're job.  Think of us, the countless numbers who accept the good with the bad and try not to squeak and moan, but fly and have fun. And I know I've never said it enough but Thanks to all involved A big goes out to all. Even a to JoeCrip and Soviet. Everybody deserves one after a fun time like this.

RazorDD

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: JoeCrip on January 13, 2002, 08:13:29 AM

edited

Title: ahh yes
Post by: Dinger on January 13, 2002, 08:28:42 AM

persuasive Joe.  If we accept your assertion, the way you argue it proves beyond a doubt that you are a member of the AH community.

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: JoeCrip on January 13, 2002, 08:33:21 AM

edited

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: vmfRazor on January 13, 2002, 08:41:59 AM

I was there Joe. I seen it more than once from more than you. And where did I say JoeCrip said it repetedly. The only time I even mentioned you was to you afterward. And Besides the, Lemme use you're words, THE F****** post was to Sling and all the other CM's. I saw many many deragatory statements m8 I don't remeber from who exactly but I was reading the chat buffer cause I was driving the tank. If I had filmed it myself then maybe I might go back through the film and pick out the statements but I didn't and besides this wasn't about any 1 F****** person saying S***. This was in general to all the CM's about all the past problems with all the events. Never was this a personal finger pointing post at you or anybosy maybe I shoulda started another thread to say this, but oh well I am human and I made a mistake. Maybe my first mistake was to say anything at all to somebody like you at all Joe.

RazorDD

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: JoeCrip on January 13, 2002, 08:45:27 AM

edited

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: vmfRazor on January 13, 2002, 08:52:04 AM

I don't want you're video cause I don't care. Ok I shoulda worded that different. Instead of all the cries about the mapmaker being a moron it shoulda read all the cries about anything having to do with no refuel pads the mapmaker being a moron and this is BS or anything else that was said in there. Like I said I don't remember which. I don't remember who said it but I do know there was quite a bit said while I drove my tank back to the barn. And that is besides the point. This was meant to be generalized over all events and all CM's. So take it or leave it. I could care less. I won't fight a war with you or anybody else who choses to say things like this. I been there done that and bought the dam Tshirt and have no desire to return there. End of post!

RazorDD\

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: JoeCrip on January 13, 2002, 09:41:11 AM

edited

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: daddog on January 13, 2002, 09:54:13 AM

Quote

THE AH COMMUNITY ARE THE BIGGEST F*****ING MORONS I HAVE EVERY SEEN IN MY F***ING LIFE

As I said in my above post you need a month off. Your squad is now "inactive".

Hope you can come back and enjoy yourselves with the events we morons put on.

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: JoeCrip on January 13, 2002, 10:02:08 AM

edited

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: JoeCrip on January 13, 2002, 10:06:51 AM

edited

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: -ammo- on January 13, 2002, 10:37:52 AM

Appreciate your response razor!

That is of coarse, the exact reason why the CM's, Terrain Team, Trainers, or anyone else that contributes to this game.  

Thx

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: JoeCrip on January 13, 2002, 02:56:27 PM

edited

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: ~Pyroman~ on January 13, 2002, 03:11:52 PM

You know what this reminds me of?  

When I was a little Pyroman, my neighbor friends would come over and one of them (Jimmy Conckelton) would always complain we didn't play the right way.  Or we were doing something wrong and if it was our game we show know better.  Well after weeks of this crap we finally told him we wanted him to go home and come back when he could be nicer.  You know take some time off.  

Well the next thing you know he made a comment like.."Well I don't want to play your stupid game or play with you stupid people!!  You all just stupid anyway!!!!!".

Wonder why this story keeps popping in my head when I read this thread?  Besides the fact how immature and silly things people can say when they are mad.

:D

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: Wanker on January 13, 2002, 03:31:35 PM

Quote

While proceeding downrange from the first run, a lone La5 managed to pick off a bomber that had wandered away from the main group due to unknown problems. The same La5 then proceeded to attack the main force of bombers, a suicidal move! The La5 was last seen headed down with parts missing from his plane.

But I made it back safely, more than I can say for that poor JU-88 crew that I sent to Valhalla! :)

Btw Blue Mako, I also damaged one of the other JU-88's, saw his fuel leaking...did he make it back to base safely?

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: AKIron on January 13, 2002, 03:49:58 PM

These things are a blast even when they don't go perfectly.

I'm certain it takes a lot of effort to design, organize, and implement them. No one with any sense believes you guys do all this work for a free account. Most of us appreciate the effort the CM's put into this. Please ignore any immature outbursts or seeming inappreciative comments and keep up the great work!

BTW, A47 in this terrain has/had a bug that ditched us even though we exited on the runway, dammit!  ;)

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: JaCkNiFe on January 13, 2002, 03:58:20 PM

What about me and Acid strafing u poor souls at 47?
:)

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: JoeCrip on January 13, 2002, 04:59:23 PM

In a sign of "Goodwill" i edited all my posts which might have siad somthing about CM's, Map Makers that they might take offense too. Just a small step in reparing the horrible realtionship between me and the S.E.A. Teams.

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: Blue Mako on January 13, 2002, 05:53:47 PM

Quote

Originally posted by banana
But I made it back safely, more than I can say for that poor JU-88 crew that I sent to Valhalla! :)

Btw Blue Mako, I also damaged one of the other JU-88's, saw his fuel leaking...did he make it back to base safely?

I don't think we lost any other Ju88's until some tried to land at A47 and were strafed OTR.  1 of our planes was badly damaged but he landed and exited at another base so I guess this is the one you mean.  I can't give you any more detail because I was on the phone while we were withdrawing from D43.

for getting your damaged plane down.  I was the Ju88 that did the final damage to your wingtip.  Sure would have liked a kill to go with all that damage I inflicted to ground targets. ;)

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: daddog on January 13, 2002, 06:44:53 PM

Anyone else other than AKiron you hear of any other fields that gave a ditch even though they were on the runway?

Thanks AKiron, I will pass this along to the terrain team.

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: Raubvogel on January 13, 2002, 07:43:50 PM

That's what I trying to bring up in that other post daddog. Everyone who exited on A47 got a ditch, and it counted as a lost plane. That definitely skewed the numbers.

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: 10Bears on January 13, 2002, 07:43:59 PM

we're reading

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: Blue Mako on January 13, 2002, 07:49:56 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Raubvogel
That's what I trying to bring up in that other post daddog. Everyone who exited on A47 got a ditch, and it counted as a lost plane. That definitely skewed the numbers.

It was noted somewhere a while back that you could not exit on a dirt rwy, you needed to exit on a rearm pad to get a landed safely msg.  Obviously this was not possible at 47.

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: ghostdancer on January 13, 2002, 07:53:57 PM

Ah, so that is what happened .. we were not sure that it would count as a ditch or not. Nightmares had Ramesis, Drex, MrKil and KiDFury land there and all were counted as ditches.

Now earlier in the evening (around 9 pm EST) I came into the SEA to record pre-flight info for the squad (kills and assists) so that I could figure out kills and assists later after the even and not wait for the posted scores. I also spawn an fw190-A5 at A57 to modify my views. When I got out of the plane .. I had killed the engine so no movement .. it said I had ditched.

So its possible that other bases outside of A47 had this bug. It is also possible that all the small fields (grass strip bases) had this bug. But can't really tell without somebody going to do some testing .. go spawn at a field and get out and see what it says.

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: Wotan on January 13, 2002, 11:23:20 PM

I remember reading in the post that sundog made when the terrain was updated saying at some fields u needed to either exit in the hanger or the rearm pad dont remember if he said anyhting about rearm pads being "destroyable".

Again I ask can the cms determin what is "destroyable" (ie towers etc.) or is it the result of the map designers?
Any answers..........

Also is this TOD over or will we do a "make-up" frame?

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: sling322 on January 13, 2002, 11:37:03 PM

We can detonate just about any structure on a field using the CM tools Wotan, but as far as how that relates to whether or not the structure can be damaged by ordnance, I just dont know.  I assume it is tied to the map maker and how he designs a terrain simply because of the fact that you cannot kill re-arm pads in the MA terrains.  Hopefully Sundog or one of the other map gurus will step forward and answer on this one.

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: JaCkNiFe on January 14, 2002, 12:18:42 AM

What about me and Acid strafing those on the feild? ;)

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: Kratzer on January 14, 2002, 12:47:20 AM

You should definitely point that out about 6 more times, until you are good and sure that nobody is listening to you. :rolleyes:

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: Sundog on January 14, 2002, 08:49:45 AM

Hey guys,
Just to clear up the hot pad questions.

1) All the Grass airfields are just modified 'snow' tiles, therefore, the runway is just a painting on the ground. To make a succesful landing, you must be on a hotpad.

2) When setting the hotpads in the terrain editor, you do just that, make the object a 'hotpad'. I didn't realize they would be destroyable. The hotpads on the standard airfields aren't destroyable due to the way HTC builds the airfield object.

3) I tried using the 'snow tile' (Nice work there Squirrel) to make them blend in well with the terrain. In the future, I will not be using this method due to the problems that occured. I have other grass airfield designs using HTC objects that will allow you to receive a successful landing regardless of destroyed hotpads. In fact, I probably won't put hotpads on them since they can be destroyed.

I test these as much as I can, however, some problems are unforseen. If you guys notice any other anamolies, please let me know. Thanks,

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: daddog on January 14, 2002, 01:09:32 PM

miss post

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: fd ski on January 14, 2002, 04:25:50 PM

As an ex-terrain team leader, and designer of few scenario's in my time, to soviet and joe guy:

you fellows have no idea, not a slightest clue as to what it takes to make a terrain, test one, or design and run scenario.

Just to give you an example, terrain will usually have in the range of couple thousands of objects, each one of those will have at least 20 different properties.
So we're looking at 40000 values that would need to be looked at in one way or the other.

If you two are volunteering your time to test terrains, i'm sure sundog will be glad to talk to you.
Fact is, that noone who has a job or family, has time to run testing enough to provide "flawless" terrain. Such is life.
So your choice is to bite the bullet and deal with it, or start flying in main arena terrains and pretend that it is indeed russia. ( and you'll find that some of the MA terrains have old bugs in them too )

As for your behaviour in arena, well, i think daddog was leniant....

Title: Another AAR
Post by: Phantom4 on January 14, 2002, 05:07:25 PM

The air was nippy but the sun was bright even this early. High visibility was bad for us and good for the Germans.  Pre-flight was uneventful, some small oil leaks but the birds seemed in great condition. First wave (a section of four IL2's) lifted off with Swoop as lead.  They proceeded at about 100'agl with 2 LA5 as high escort.  Within a couple of minutes they disappeared over the horizon.  2nd wave With Ripsnort as lead (another section of four IL2's) taxied onto the runway and began to warm-up engines.  You could feel the tension building, banter was light and full of bravado but you could feel the underlying edginess.  Everyone knew this was a virtual suicide mission.  Enemy air cover was thick and their planes were all battle-tested veterans.  This was not going to be a walk in the park.

 ROLL! Finally the command came, the waiting was over.  Throttles advanced to full and the heavy laden IL2's began lumbering down the runway slowing gaining speed. After an eternity the wheels finally left the ground, we were airborne.  We proceeded on a slightly northern tack just above the treetops.  The very low level flying was a blessing because it kept your mind occupied dodging obstacles and didn't leave you time to think about the upcoming battle.  Fortune seemed to smile on us as neither flight was detected on the run in.  However our luck soon ran out.  As 1st flight neared target, they spotted numerous enemy 109's circling the base.  The radio chatter began at a furious pace.  It was evident that Swoop's group was under heavy attack.  However, they still managed to hit the base hard and takeout the AAA.  Swoop the showing he's dedication and love of mother Russia began to attack the fighters and drag them away from the base.  Showing no regard for his own safety he managed to lure the entire cap away from the base off to the northwest.

  Rip orders to turn south and on to the target from nearly due east.  As we caught sight of the base we immediatel popped up and climbed for all the altitude we could muster.  I third in line as the attack began.  The two in front of me hit the hangers hard.  I nosed over, large bombs on the fuel dump. Leveling slightly, I dropped the internal boms down the runway.  Nosing down again, selector to rockets, I unloaded all of them into the ammo dumps.  Secondary explosions were everywhere the target was a smoking mess. Success! But, our joy was short lived.  We had caught the attention of the fighter cap and they were all over us.  Radio was nearly unintelligible. "Bandits 5 oclock high! Multiple bandits my 6 oclock!! I'm hit, I'M HIT" I saw Rip hit and smoking I think he is down. I pull up hard on the far side into a stall and wingover back towards the base.  It looks destroyed.  Keeping the nose down, I fight to gain speed. Then from the corner of my eye, a 109!! passing fast across my nose.  I thumb down on the canons, HIT HIM! A hit right in the engine, he is smoking heavily and is quickly out of sight (I found out later, it was a comfirmed kill). Continuing down and accelerating hard i pulled out about 10' above the deck and streaked across the base headed for home.  The seconds slowed ticked by, while I waited for tracers to flash my impending death. 5, 10, 15, 20, 30, 45... I might make it. Oh no , 109 6 oclack high closing fast. Obviously, he has picked me for his next victum. Break right! Tracers whis by to the left. Rudder hard left! Tracers to the right! He is fight on me. I can see his smile.  The rear gunner lets loose, hits all along is wing and canopy. White smoke. He pulls up and breaks right. I roll left and then level out, running as fast as I can. He has broke off, friendly fighters streak by. No wonder. Guess he didn't like the fight when he was on the small end.  No more bandits in view, on the radio ,"Rip, Sundog report! Swoop!, Swoop! ...." Silence! It looks as if I am the only survivor.  I continue home, completely unharmed, God has smiled on me.

The minutes tick by, and I am nearing home.  I spot an enemy depot. No ordinance, but I have a lot of ammo.  I line up on the AAA and take out two on the fisrt pass. Jinking left, right, up, all over, I extend and turn back. I take out the last AAA and methodically strafe the depot until all ammo is expended.  RTB. Thank god it is just a few miles away.  There is the runway, a nice landing, coast to a stop at the ammo shed.  The ground begans to quickly rearm and refuel my aircraft. I crawl out of the cockpit and stand on the wing. My legs are stiff and I have to piss.  I start to climb down by the ground crew lead yells for my to stand-by new orders are on their way. So , i just relieve myself over the wing. One of the ground crew hands we a cup of coffee.  It seems like the best cup I have ever had.  

Here are my orders, another depot has been spotted near our original, I have been ordered to attack it.  This is insane - fly across hundred mile of enemy territory and singlehangedly attack a large depot. Well, orders are orders and I know they wouldn't make this assignment unless it were very important. Up again and heading to target.  Ingress is uneventful, i never see an enemy fighter.  Seems as fortune is still on my side.  Nearing target, several bogies appear, 4 ocloak high, angels 12 or higher.  Must be bandits, wait ..., they seem a little large for 109's - it's a flight of IL2's.  The FDB's, I think. Fatty has lead. I join with them about 5 miles from target.  It is a huge depot. AAA first then targets of oportunity. Bombs then rockets then guns, pass after pass, finally I am out of ammo and the depot is destroyed.  Oh oh, fuel is critical, RTB immediately. I start a shallow climb and throttle back to about 2/3. Man this is going to be tight. The climb is costing too much fuel, level at about 4k and hope for best. About 10 miles out, fuel gauge is showing empty and then engine quits. Out of fuel.  Nose over to shallow dive trying for maximum coast. After a couple of minutes it is obvious I am not going to make it, I am low just a couple hundred feet and over enemy depot(D75. I keep my nose in the direction of my base but i am dropping fast, I can see the runway but by now I am under 100.  I can see dust behind me, I've been spotted and they know I am going to crash. Unable to keep her in the air, I settle down and roll to a stop. A german truck pull along before I can exit the cockpit.  My luck has run out, looks like I will spend the rest of the war in a prison camp.

Phantom

Title: Black Sea Frame 3 AAR
Post by: Durr on January 26, 2002, 02:41:01 AM

I took off with the 308th, flying wingman for Hazed.  We headed into enemy territorry looking for trouble.   After repeated turns to intercept bandits that turned out to actually be friendlies we dropped in at a friendly field to rearm/refuel.  
(http://www.ghostrider305.com/ahimages/308th.jpg)

  Upon takeoff, we headed for a nearby enemy target on a ground attack mission.  The acks were all down when we arrived, so we rolled in and had a field day flattening the place.  When we left there was nothing standing and we still had about 100 rounds cannon apiece in our La-5s.  

  Upon climbing out, I suddenly lost joystick control, which happens to me sometimes.  There is no cure for it but to reset the computer, since Windows wont even recognize a joystick as being present of plugged in.  Usually I just logoff, and reboot and come back, but of course in a TOD, thats not an option.  So I was left with the option of flying back to friendly territorry using trim tabs, and either bailing out there, or trying to land using trim.  I headed for the nearest Allied base, and started trying to line up for a trim only landing.  My throttle control comes from joystick also, so my only power inputs available was from engine on/off.  I shut the engine down about five miles out and started to glide in.  

(http://www.ghostrider305.com/ahimages/finalckpt2.jpg)
  On the first pass, I was much to fast, crossing the threshold at well over 200 mph.  I started the engine, trimmed like a madman trying to counter the sudden torque, and slowly got turned around to return to the original initial point.  This time I shut the engine down a little further back.  In the time it took to do all this, the rest of the 308th had gone to another enemy base, shot down some Ju-88s, and returned to the base where I was trying to land.  They did some precision flybys on the field and then landed in formation on a crossing runway just as I came in on short final.  I was still a little fast, crossing the threshold at about 190 and slightly right of the runway.  I set trim full nose up and dropped the gear, praying that the drag would slow the plane before the gear could be damaged.  Even with full aft trim, the La-5 was perilously nose lo on touchdown.  First touchdown was about even with the first rearm pad at about 150 mph.  I bounced about 4 times and finally settled roughly on the mains at about 110 mph.  I slowly applied as much brakes as I thought I could get away with and not nose over.  Finally I came to rest about 1/2 mile past the end of the runway.
(http://www.ghostrider305.com/ahimages/madeit.jpg)

  Now it suddenly occured to me that I would still get a ditch unless I could return my fighter to the runway before exiting.  I blipped the engine quickly a few times to get moving and used differential braking to turn.  Alas, my poor landing gear had taken all the abuse that they were going to, and the right main gear collapsed under me.  Still, I'm sure the ground crew will have my bird back up and running in no time.
(http://www.ghostrider305.com/ahimages/broken.jpg)