Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: fscott on October 17, 2000, 12:02:00 PM
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HT and crew. How hard would it be to impose airplane rations for each country? The only arguement that I could see is what planes to ration. I'm sure you could find a way.
For instance, allow only a certain number of each plane for each country based upon their current damage level AND based upon how many others are currently flying a particular aircraft? Of course there would always be a plentiful supply of non-dweeb planes. But when you finally get dibs on a super-dweeb plane, your gonna take special care of it.
Additionally, you could implemet this as an arena-wide level or on an airstrip by airstrip basis. Knock out a few hangers and their aircraft number levels go down.
What does the community think? Wouldn't this heighten the realism of combat?
fscott
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<Rip sits back, cracks a cold one, gets package of weinies out, waits for Udie to show up with tequila>
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Which planes shall be rationed and which shall not? A6M5 and 202 are the only ones that people have not (yet) whined about being overmodeled.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 10-17-2000).]
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Let me add this which helps to reason why I would favour airplane rations.
You jump in your plane, head out to the big furball just 20 clicks away, get shot down, go back to the same airstrip, get your favourite dweebmobile, fly out to 20 clicks, shoot someone down, they go back to the same airstrip, get their fav dweebmobile, meet you at 20 clicks and the whol thing goes round and round and round and round...only on a much alrger scale. Instead of just you flying out, it's 10 others meeting 10 bandits, and its the same level of non-strategy. It continues until someone finally makes it through the mess with a Lanc and demolishes your airstrip. It's the same old non-strategy.
To implement airplane rations means now wn you get hot down and go back to your favourite airstrip, your dweebmobile may not be available, perhaps you will now have to fly the zeke or some other lower class fighter. So what does this do? This forces you to fly from a different airstrip if you want your fav dweebmobile. Perhaps forcing you to flank the enemy. I think it would add a new level of realism IMHO.
fscott
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C'mon funked...yah already know at least two planes to ration (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
(and if you add Sissyfires, will be three)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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And as soon as I can't fly any Spitfire, I cancel my account.
Some of us fly them because we actually like the aircraft for itself.
You'll find guys who feel this way about every airplane.
Sisu
-Karnak
[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 10-17-2000).]
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I like the idea. Imagine landing after successful mission. Check the airplane roster and see what's available, decide that you would like to keep your current ride, and without exiting your plane, resupply and take-off again. That is a neat idea. They do it with fuel and they do it with ammo, so why would planes be any different???
"BullWinkle"
"Don't touch my BullWinkle."
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Actually, you can impose rationing already.
The strat is there today:
Bomb the city.
Bomb the refineries.
Bomb the field fuel dumps.
Now, the planes are limited to 25% fuel. Anything other than a mustang will not be able to fly far from the base that was just bombed.
For Buffs:
Bomb city.
Bomb Ammo Factories
Bomb local field ammo dumps.
No Buffs from that field.
For troops.
Bomb City
Bomb Training Complex.
Bomb local field barracks.
No goons for 2.5 hours
The strat is there...true, its not easy to obtain these results, but hitting strategic targets is supposed to take time for the effects to take place.
Cobra
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Rationing?? In the main arena? Good Cod did you really think about that one? Scenarios yes. Regular free-for-all, main arena? No effing way.
Best example: Why should I, when I get to fly an hour or so only every other night, not be able to choose a P-47-D-R30 just because some all thumbs newby trashed them all day long trying to learn to fly online versus off? and why should he learn to fly offline when it's better with a flat rate system to learn online?
Rationing? You gotta be kidding.
-Westy
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I think your missing the poster's original point. When you bomb an airstrip and damage a few hangers, how is it that only the fuel and the ammo gets hit but the same planes are still available? Wouldn't it be eralistic to think that when you hit hangers, PLANES are being hit too?
BullWinkle
"Don't touch my BullWinkle."
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OK RAM Let me see:
Fw 190A-5
Me 109G-10
C-47?
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Bullwinkle, if you kill the hangars, they don't get no planes!!!
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 10-17-2000).]
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What Westy said...
Dumb and unfair idea for the MA. Scenarios are the place to limit numbers of planes.
Lars
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
<Rip sits back, cracks a cold one, gets package of weinies out, waits for Udie to show up with tequila>
Udie staggers in mumbling incoherently...
"Wehre the hell iss me tikkila, who drunk it?! I think that tree did and now Im gonna kick it's arsse"
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Well, that's what a forum is for, to exchange ideas. However, that's why I propose an airstrip by airstrip basis for the rations. Your favourite dweebmobile will be there, you may have to fly from a different airstrip to fly it. Don't be so extremist. I am not suggesting that we ration the availability of a plane throughout the entire arena. So what if you have to fly a few extra clicks to find a battle. As of right now, AH is beginning to take on the same non-stategic feel that WB combat arena does. The same pilots get shot down and get back to their same airstrip and get back into their same dweebmobile. It gets old. Perhaps some like to do that, but I am not one of them.
fscott
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So somewhere between full availability of all aircraft if that types hangars are up and no availability if the hangars are down? So lose one of two hangars and now only x number of any one type could fly versus unlimited? That might be a good thing.
-Westy
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An interesting idea, what you are proposing is that each field be enabled of a particular type of aircraft? maybe a 1 runway field with 1 type and a 3 runway with 3 different types enabled? I sort of like it but feel that the MA is not the place for it. You site the heavy Fuzzball activity going on that looks at times like a lemming rush to the same spot. That seems cyclical, and I would bet the next tours map will have a big cause/effect change on it. As it is now, you can still be as Strat minded as you want,and over fly what doesnt interest you.
JimBear
"where is this dweebmobile and what color does it come in?"
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Well, the strat is there in the MA to take advantage of, or not. For the strat junkies - go for it... Only got an hour to fly? Furball it.
The MA aint the kind of place to introduce these kinds of limitations... In an HA, perhaps... In the scenarios, definately.
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fscott,
If you limit it by airfield, what happens when one side starts to lose?
What happens is people jump sides to one that can fly their aircraft, thus weakening the losing side even more. Or they log out and hope a the arena has reset before they log on next.
Why stay and try to defend against hopeless odds when all you can fly are C.202s and A6M5bs?
Sisu
-Karnak
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Obviously there would be details to work out, and there's no way to work the quirks out here, but it is an idea I think HT and crew could make work if they wanted to.
The object would be to limit the number of the same kind of planes you encounter. Personally I get bored battling the same F4U's and Niki's in my lowly Zero. Yeah you got me, the secret agenda here is to force you guys to fly some non-dweeb planes!
fscott
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Originally posted by funked:
Which planes shall be rationed and which shall not? A6M5 and 202 are the only ones that people have not (yet) whined about being overmodeled.
Those damn a6ms are ufo's No way a plane can do the manouvers it can and conserve E the way it does. 202 is baiscly the same thing but uglier, I say remove em both.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by rosco- (edited 10-17-2000).]
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A6M5 and 202 are the only ones that people have not (yet) whined about being overmodeled.
You sure Funked? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I'm was thinking that Citabria started a thread a while back about the C.202 being too good (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
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I think the point here shouldn't be to limit type of aircraft or vehicles, but to limit their numbers. A base should be able to service and store a limited number of vehicles. If the stores are depleted, from say multiple players respawning over and over, then the net effect should be similar to the VHs, BHs or FHs being down. The replenishment of stores should be tied to the countries overall health, or at some stage to resupply lines.
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I got it!!! Just make the plane restrictions on a personal level. If you die in your chog you can't fly another till your base spawns another for you. This way no one else can use up your planes. But it will add a bit of a death penalty and maybe people will be a little less kamikaze'ish. Maybe it'd even cut down on HO's (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Restrict Uberplanes to main fields.
Makes uberplanes more rare.
Rewards safe landings (allows you to rearm your uberplane at front line fields).
Gives advantage to defenders of main fields. (They defend with uberplanes, attackers get non-uberplanes.)
Just submit a list of uberplanes to HTC for restriction, and the problem is solved. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
popeye
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Fscott I see what you are saying now, doing it on a field by field basis. That would be alright with me IF it was on a player by player basis too.
I.e. if I use up 5 C-hogs from A5, I don't get any more for an hour. I either have to switch fields of fly the D-hog.
But I don't want to be disallowed from flying the C-hog because other pilots used them up.
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Yes, I think there are a multitude of ways to implement the idea in one fashion or another. The real focus here is imagine how much more depth the sim would have. That's my focus. I would like to get rid of the "kamikaze" stlye of fighting that many people have. They just keep getting back into their favourite uber and off they go again head-on into the furball.
That may be fun, but it is in no way realistic. It not only lessens the realism for the pilot, but also for those who are conscientious pilots who want to have a *reason* for protecting their equipment. Do you really think that a pilot who has the golden opprtunity to fly the rare Ta-152 is going to go full bore into a furball if he knows that there are only a few of the Ta-152's at a particular airstrip? No way, he's gonna be very careful the enemy he selects to fight, then he is going to do his darnest to watch his fuel, and make a soft landing, then refuel, resupply, and off he goes again. Think about it, it gives you a reason to do the "secondary" things like landing and resupplying. I know some of you attempt to land and keep a good score, but with rations, you would *feel* the need to make it back to base and land safely.
And of course, if you don't do those things properly you could still fly a Ta152, but just from another base farther from the main area of action, as long as that base wasn't being attacked or dwindled.
fscott
"Ta152?! Huh? WHERE!"
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Funked; just curious; why is the A5 on that list? Except down low, the American z&b'ers have a definitive advantage on it.
G10 can be debated, but make it uber and I'll fly the G2. Damned nice aircraft, the G2.
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://www.angelfire.com/nt/regoch/sig.gif)
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Just submit a list of uberplanes to HTC for restriction, and the problem is solved. - popeye
Problem solved? Ooh man I can just imagine the fights among the Uber Selection Commitee members. There would be fistacuffs, mayhem, pandemonium and brouhaha.
Feelings could get hurt.
It'd be much safer in the MA.
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[This message has been edited by Nash (edited 10-17-2000).]
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Santa it's a feeble attempt at humor. The point is that one man's dweeb ride is another man's undermodeled heartbreak.
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See what I mean? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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doh double..
[This message has been edited by Nash (edited 10-17-2000).]
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I think in general it is a bad idea to attempt to use such heavy-handed tactics to modify player behaviour. After all the customer is spending their money and trying to have fun; it's probably best not to try to "punish" them. It would best for us all if players are not inadvertantly driven away from the game by something like this. A system which somehow rewards players for desirable behaviour is a much better idea.
Hooligan
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In that other sim you could bomb a country's spitfire factory and they couldn't use spits for like an hour . Maybe each country should have a spitfireIX/n1k2/f4u1c factory .
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Altho I don't like limiting planes in the MA, I think Suave's idea has great potential. It will improve strategy as well.
Cheers,
Pepino
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funked humor? From an Allied opportunist schweinhund?
No wonder I missed it.
I thought you expressed your sense of humour through your ridiculous plane designs (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Agree with you though.
I've also not to see chogs as such monster planes - they are monsters if yer in an A5, or A8, but not if yer in a G2 or G10.
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://www.angelfire.com/nt/regoch/sig.gif)
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Can we ration the yak-3. Maybe kill the spit factory.