Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: eskimo2 on January 14, 2002, 12:09:54 PM
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Do you take gondolas?
I always do, and assumed that everyone else did as well.
Please respond if you fly 109s 10 or more sorties a tour.
eskimo
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WOW!
OK you "sometimes" guys, explain yourself?
What makes you decide to take them or not?
eskimo
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If I wanted more cannons I would have taken a 190.
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I second that ammo. To take gondolas on a 109 removes it superior rate of climb and quite good manuverabilty, and thus removes everything the 109 stands for. Prefer my 190 most of the time but 109 lovely 1 vs 1 and 1 vs ALOT where you can get out.
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I only take the gondalas if what I am planning to do requires firepower. Say, bomber hunting or ground attack.
Otherwise I'd rather have the performance of the aircraft as unhampered as possible.
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The sometimes depends on how I plan on flying. If I'm going to be high up- I take no gondolas. If I'm medium to low alt, I take gondolas.
I only fly G2 and F4 though.
-SW
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I always take them because I like to make things go boom.
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I agree with those that mentioned the role of the sortie. There is no reason to take gondolas to dogfight, unless you are going to dare people to HO. You need to be lighter to turnfight in a 109.
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Need to fill out the voting options with "most of the time" and "rarely".
109f turns fine even with gondolas, only if I'm going into a herd of zeros would I ditch them.
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I always take them, I'm so good it I need to lose the performance to keep the arena fair :rolleyes:
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Rarley take them in G10 and G6, usually do in G2 and F4.
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i rarely fly the 109's but when i do...what hb said
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It depends on what type of fight I expect to encounter. I concur that I take gondolas for anti-bomber or ground attack work but I also sometimes take them for anti-fighter use. If I think I can BnZ and will have to take a lot of snapshots while still having an alt advantage in the fight then I want the extra firepower. If I think I'm going to be needing my defense to stay alive then I'm not going to take gondolas as they affect performance too much.
I tend to bring the 30mm along with the 20mm gondolas for anti-bomber work though in a G10... I love having all that firepower.
-Soda
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I almost always take them, as I'm a boom&zoom kind of 109 driver. My aim is only so-so, which means I need all the rounds out there I can get. I fly the 109F mostly, and it doesn't suffer that much with gondolas in terms of maneuverability. The only time I usually take the G10 is when I'm lifting to intercept buffs, in which case I really need the extra firepower. Climb is still very respectable, especially on WEP (which you have a lot of), and it's still pretty fast.
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Untalented 109 pilots like me need the gondolas - bad. :)
For us, the extra performance doesn't mean much, since if we gonna be shot down by somebody, we'd be shot down anyway.
It's like the "Nike" shoes.. or maybe the 'aerodynamic suits' the 100m track runners wear... they put in all kinds of stuff and technology into that one shoe or suit.... experts like Carl Lewis or somebody might feel the difference by wearing that shoe or suit, but to a normal joe - it's just another expensive sneakers, and another funky hooded T-shirt :)
The gondolas provide a generous amount of chance in taking shots without needing to have wory 'ooh... I'm already under 100 rounds in 20mm????'. The untalented may get a chance at someone's six, but usually our gunnery doesn't catch up with the chance provided, so we blow it. Waste 60-70 rounds just to ping that guy once or twice. It's there the 250 extra 20mm rounds kick in :D Hey, I've got 400 rounds of these babies- oooh !
Survival comes later, since our usual option is to just run straight home, and most of the times, this is successful. Gondola'd G-10s still outrun the Sputfires and N1K2s :)
I think that's why the Luft Waffe actually evaluated the 190 as 'easy and simple to fly and fight in, compared to 109s'. Planes with lots of ammo load helps the rookies - a lot.
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I only take gondolas on the 109F4 since it cant climb anyway. Doesn't affect turn performance too much.
On a G10 its all about the 30mm in the nose
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never...too big of a performance hit
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most of the 109 g6's i have seen in photos are saddled with gondolas. i usually take them on the g6 with a third 20mm since that was more common than the 30mm.
- i figure they didnt have it easy with that loadout but if i wanted it easy id take an la7 like the rest of the herd.
i read somewhere that gondies were rare on the g10 so i usually take the 30mm or 20mm though 1 20mm is assist city. you can blow the wing and tail off a bomber with a single 20mm and if an n1k flies by and so much as glances at the buff he will get the kill....:)
g2 and f4 i go either way since about 1/2 the pictures show them configured either way though probably the no-gondola route is more common.
f4 behaves nice with gondolas but i think i prefer the g2 without.
whew... :)
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I never fly the G6 and I rarely fly the G10 - only for buff attack - in that case Ill take the 20mm gondolas in addition to the single 20mm - hate the 30mm. Regardless - for fighter sorties - the 109F4 and the 109G2, I NEVER take the gondolas - the performance hit is enough for most to notice, especially in the roll rate category. Yeah its tough to hit stuff, but its just that much more satisfactory when you do. :)
Mike "Mazz"
The Flying Circus
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Originally posted by moose
I only take gondolas on the 109F4 since it cant climb anyway. Doesn't affect turn performance too much.
On a G10 its all about the 30mm in the nose
The 109F can't climb? huh?
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I usually fly LW iron.
I fly mostly Franz and G2 these days, because for me, its all about the perkies. I target spits and nikis when possible for the nice perkie returns, so I usually leave the gondolas off to try and better my chances at it. Eventually, I get enough perkies for the jet. I never get more than 10 sorties out of it before get killed doing something really dweebish. Then I start all over again.
:p
PS: One thing I try to remember when flying with a small clip:
"Outfly them before you try to shoot them."
.
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on the planes where 30mm is available i take single cannon. for the 20mm only planes i take gondolas.
i wish there was a 30mm option for the g2 :)
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I voted never but I wish there was an "almost never" button. Gondolas seem to kill off whatever strengths the 109s might have by adding extra weight and drag. They affect speed, climb, turn and roll. Bear in mind I'm usually looking to turn so that's why I don't use em. Now if I DO take the extra guns its gonna be because I KNOW I'm going buff hunting or strafing and won't be turning much if at all. Gondolas would be perfect for that.
Drano
Originally posted by eskimo2
Do you take gondolas?
I always do, and assumed that everyone else did as well.
Please respond if you fly 109s 10 or more sorties a tour.
eskimo
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I take em!!! Better in the HO! I am not in the air long enough to perform ACM to make a difference.
HO and Snapshot! So I need the extra lead!
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My recipe:
Green bar > Red bar = Gondolas
Red bar > Green bar = No Gondolas
dumb rules for dumb people :-)
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Never on G6 or G10
Always on F4
Maybe on G2 (my least favorite 109 in AH)
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I'd say 90% of the time I take the gondies (usually fly g10). It fits my snapshot dependent flying style :). I never really turn the thing, and usually dive into the fight with such an E advantage that the extra drag is almost a good thing.
That being said, it is diff plane without them. One time I timed accel from 150 IAS to 350 IAS at 8000 ft in g10. If I remember right the g10 without the extra guns does it in 43 seconds, with them it does it in 48 seconds.
Elysian/cmorris
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I take em most of the time, whatever 109 I am in.
The G10 can't turn for snot anyway, so adding the Gondolas doesn't hurt in that respect. I almost always take the 30mm and two gondolas, unless I know I'm only going to fight a Pony of another 109, then I'll go 20mm and no gondolas in the G10. G6 I almost never fly, every time I flew it I took a 30mm and gondolas.
G2 I rarely fly anymore, when I flew it I took gondolas most of the time, because the 7.92s take about 400 rounds to kill someone with.
F4 I almost always take gondolas, because the plane isnt fast anyway, so slowing it down some isnt going to hurt it :). It still turns plenty well with gondolas, I can hang with Nikis until it gets down to the deck, at that point the Nik outturns the F4 pretty handily.
As a note, the F4 can't turn with a Spitfire at all, I've heard people say it can outturn them under certain 'circumstances', but I've never seen that to be the case.
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First off, the Me 109 is a 'lil girly man's plane, real men, manly men fly the FW 190A5.
Secondly IF[/B][/U] I were to debaise myself and fly a 109G10, it'd be with the 30mm, Gondolas, and 12mm armament (code named "cone of death")
:D
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I only fly the G10 in the MA, I only tank 1 30mm with it, so I can turn better with spits/nikis and chase brave sir robins more effectively.
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Gondolas only when I'm buff hunting
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Originally posted by Urchin
The G10 can't turn for snot anyway, so adding the Gondolas doesn't hurt in that respect.
G10 can't turn? Don't tell that to NathBDP. :)
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Geeze guys... readin this thread makes a pony guy feel like the thanksgiving turkey, suddenly gifted with speach comprehension on Nov 23rd.
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i am good fly yes ??
u r lev (^^:
bye ;-)
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Drano;
Since the performance charts in AH make no adjustments for with/without gondolas, and knowing that obviously in real life a serious loss of performance would occur by having anything hanging in the slipstream, what proof do we have that the modeling and programming of this game actually makes changes in the weight/lift/drag equation when we bolt the gondolas on?
My feeling would be that a simple test would be to do a timed climb to 20K with/without the gondolas to see if there is a difference. A lack of difference would indicate a lack of programming of this equation. Don't know how we could measure turn performance other than by subjective opinion.
Beeg
Originally posted by Drano
I voted never but I wish there was an "almost never" button. Gondolas seem to kill off whatever strengths the 109s might have by adding extra weight and drag. They affect speed, climb, turn and roll. Bear in mind I'm usually looking to turn so that's why I don't use em. Now if I DO take the extra guns its gonna be because I KNOW I'm going buff hunting or strafing and won't be turning much if at all. Gondolas would be perfect for that.
Drano
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G2 always without extra cannons
G6 1x30mm or 1x20mm
G10 mostly with 1x20mm. sometimes 1x30mm or 3x20mm.
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G10 is for homos!
Oops, did I really type that?!
-SW
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sw say:
G10 is for homos!
Oops, did I really type that?!
-SW
only for bad fly pilot ^^ g10 is nice fly and shoot ( big cannon )
cu all
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Yup, G10 is only for bad pilots. They do no good earlier 109s.
-SW
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oop bad say..... i mean pilot who bad fly a.h., no understood how to fly this plane..
u r bad fly yes ? ^^ cu
imo, sry for bad english
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Yup, I suxx0r like you Nath.
Give it up, I know you're from New York and speak English fine.
-SW
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u tard
cu
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Who's the one who got banned? (http://www.freakygamers.com/smilies/s2/contrib/blackeye/lol.gif) Oh, that's right.....
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"profile For Stain Search for all posts by this user.
Date Registered: 06-06-2001
Status: Senior Member
Total Posts: 2196 (9.83 posts per day)
"
hee hee go fly, AH, spell less maybe some time u get good like lev
u to discursive, think u post to much
must stay on topic (^^:@
cu in sky, but u die fast like jpn pilot wwII
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I got a job, I post from work. Can't fly from work.
Maybe in a couple 'a years when you get this flying thing down, step outta the training wheels (G10) and take the G2 for a ride.
-SW
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nah nah i fly challenge planes, no like easy stuff ^-^
fly g10 correct and u see it not 'training plane'..... may be u should learn to fly it ? g2 easy shoot &fly compare g10 ask any one
by the way, which handle u fly w ? cant see stat, so maybe u fly AH instead of command ppl wat to fly ?
cu
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ah i see you stat, very good.. he he (http://www.freakygamers.com/smilies/s2/contrib/blackeye/lol.gif)
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Oh, my bad, I should probably highlight the fact that the 109G10 has the advantage of climb rate, spiral climb, energy retention, level acceleration, and vertical climbs in relation to the other 109s.
The planes it can't run from, it can spiral climb above. The planes it can't climb above, it can run from. The planes it can do neither to, it can turn inside of.
But, since you think I suxx0r- I'll give ya a stat for something we both flew in Tour 23:
NathBDP has 37 kills and has been killed 13 times in the Fw 190A-8.
AKSWulfe has 38 kills and has been killed 1 time in the Fw 190A-8.
You suxx0r! (http://www.theunholytrinity.org/cracks_smileys/otn/funny/moon.gif)
-SW
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eeeeeeek ^^
i fly this planes agressive not like afraid little child ;-), so prolly lots of death for me..,. dont use those advantage u say., if i want to do that i fly me262 jet or some thing else
i state stat b/c u have no experiance in either 109 u hardly even fly this game :-/
k, were i say you 'suxx0r?' was askin q if u were new to this game or not u presume 2 much
cu
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My k/t was .0031 when I was flying the 190A8, it went down when I flew the P47D-11. I flew the 190A8 in furballs only.
Anyway, I have been flying this game since Beta Tour 3. But since I have a life and a job, I can only afford less than 10 hours a month to play this game.
When Dejavu did the "Top 100" stats for each plane type, I was 5th on the 109G2.
I have experience in all of the 109 models, but I stay out the G10 because it's just a late war uber ride.
-SW
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wtg on new life&job look like u just got them 2 tour or so ago (^^:
btw go fly f4 if u want bad 109, at least go all out if u going to command s about this type of stuffs,. ) u want to fly me in g2 i duel, i kill u any plane ^_^ G2 better arena plane, easy turn and shoot w/ gondola try g10 with single 30mm and agressive see how u do................
cu
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I haven't broken 30 hours in a year. I barely even got above 20, with 2 exceptions.
I have flown the F4. I have flown the G6. I have flown the G2. I have flown the G10. Out of all of them, I find the G10 the easiest to get kills and live in.
I have flown all of the 190s too, I find the D9 the easiest to get kills in.
The G10 and the D9 are the LostWaffle's version of the La7 and P51D. easy to kill and live in.
You want to duel? I guess you got something to prove? I only gave you the stats because you implied I both didn't fly and I wasn't any good.
-SW
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Beegerite, no tests needed really, you notice it without problems that all external stores add both drag and weight. I allways fly 109 without gondolas, will notice right away if they are on by the feek of the plane.
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Nath whats this retard english yore doing?
Oh yea for the PC crowd out there who(as is usual) dont know better, NathBDP is a male 17 year old white teenager from New York State who apparently in the past pretended to be a black person and now pretends to be Korean. So Im not beeing insensitive to non native speakers. '
And Bf109G6 and Fw190A5 can and do outurn Spits and Nikis, Bf109G10 can turn with a Spitfire and Niki for a little bit as well.
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I almost never take gonds, so I voted never.
I almost never fly F4, rarely G2, most often G6, sometimes G10 (although I mostly flew G10 at the beginning).
G6 and G10: always w/ 30mm.
As I'm a poor shot, I have to go real close. But 1 ping is enough. My all-time max is a 3 kills sortie, before refuel/rearm tho.
I'm now completely addicted to the G6. I had a great kick flying it in the CT last weeks, facing La5, Yaks and B26. The yaks (9T) gave me a bit more trouble than La5s.
Btw, you've lost your forum password too, SWulfe? :D
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Nah, forum password still good- but with the change over to whatever UBB software this is, it has apparently disabled the option to use a different handle when posting than the username.
And since I'm too lazy to create another UBB profile, I'll just live with this for now.
:)
-SW
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rolfolfolfolaloaofahhahhaha
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Don't forget that I'm also seeking a Puerto Rican male in their 20's whos name is Animal and has a Korea fetish.
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plz refer to blacks as : Subsaharan nubians
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OK, here is my reasoning for always taking gondolas.
The #1 "performance" criteria that I look for in any airplane is weapon load out. Number of cannon, cannon power/ballistics and ammo count is most likely to make me choose one plane over another. When I fly 109s, I usually fly the F-4 or the G-2. The Mgs in both of these rides is pretty piddly, might get you an assist, but for kills, cannon is where it's at. Taking the gondolas means that I have almost 3 times the ROF and killing potential.
If we were given the option of taking as many pairs of gondolas as we want, I would probably take 3 pair quite often, flying performance be damned! Imagine a 7 gun, 900 C-round 109F!
I guess it matches my flying and shooting style. I never limit myself to only clean dead six D-200 shots, I take anything I can get; high deflection merge, HO, dead six, turning circle snap shot, high six bounce, shots at any range, vulch or what ever. I need ROF for how I fly and shoot. As a result, when I do kill someone, it is very often right away on my first attack. Most of my fights are very short, (when I win).
I don't think the gondolas hamper the flight performance that much. Top speed and max stall turn suffer mostly, but not that much. With gondolas, you can still outrun Zekes and Spits. Without them, you can't out-turn these planes for too long anyway. Most planes that are faster than the early 109s can't turn with gondola equipped 109s either, so it's no great loss. I think fuel state has a bigger impact on flight performance than do gondolas.
About the only time I get mad while playing AH is when I get ½ way to an enemy base and notice that my gondolas are missing (You know the drop-tank/gondola bug that de-selects gondolas without telling you, when drop tanks are disabled at a field that you took off from).
Still, I am often surprised as to how well I do without them, when I enter a fight discouraged because I think I won't survive without my regular fire-power.
eskimo
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You want to duel? I guess you got something to prove? I only gave you the stats because you implied I both didn't fly and I wasn't any good.
-SW
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Yeah, I got somethin to prove--that j00 suxx0r much0r and need to stfakku more often.
Careful what you/who start yappin about, lest you be called up to defend your statements which you won't defend. Honestly, it wouldn't matter what aircraft I was in against you, you'd die just as sweet. Point being, I fly whatever the fakk I want to fly and how I want to fly it. And believe me, that latter's way beyond your comprende.
Only your arrogance assumes that I was implying anything to hurt your feelings, but what I did do was drag you into a 6 some odd post troll game that kept me laughing for a few hours. Thanks. Hilarious how much you were trying to actually "win" that.
So, be careful what you say about something, especially if you don't have smakk to back it up with.
--The Knights of Ni! verbally pwn once again!--
damn toejam stains
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You're in luck Nath beacuse Animal thinks u r "so dreamy".... :eek:
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Grunherz, only reason the 109's can turn with spits and nikis is because the Spit/niki pilots are GENERALY less experienced and can't/don't date/don't know how to turn as they should and don't dare to pull the stick. Meet a good pilot in a spit or niki and you will be outturned before you can say "ops".
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Trying to win what? I just kept going cuz you kept replying.
You were a dweeb before you got banned, and you are still a dweeb. Pulling the same toejam as before.
Nice to know you can't change at all.
-SW
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Well thats true some of the better ones can outurn my 109s and 190s, on a bad day for me and especially if my aim is off......
:)
But of course spits turn better, but this doesnt mean you can outurn them and close fight with them.
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Careful... Nath is one of the most, if not THE most competent pilot in this sim... in anything..
In fact, I'd not bet on a matchup between him and citabria (fester).. in anything.
You may not appreciate either guys sense of humor, but you WILL by god respect their abilities... or wind up as confetti in the dueling arena.
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With all due respect Hang, the last time you or me have met in the arena was over a year and a half ago.
-SW
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I'm literally in tears from laughing so hard. Funny thread, guys.
SWulfe, Nath has gotten better with time as, I suspect, we all have. I consider him to be the toughest and most rewarding fight in AH bar none.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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If the 109 has some E, it can keep up with the spit about one lap or so. Meet me in a spit vs your 109 G10 and you won't survive. Th espit is a FAR better turner then the 109 if flown the right way.
The F4 turns almost as good as the Spit 9 and can keep up with it quite good, The G2 is OK and the G6 is much like the G10.
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it depends on the pilot(s)
can kill most in MA with 109f with gonds
usually die in CA with same setup, when it was available. learned to leave the gonds behind, flys much better but punch doesn't last long enough
take gonds when target is bomber in whatever 109 I grab, usually the g6 for bmbr if not the g10
Nath is young but one bad dude in the 109
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My own question or better said doubts got to me so upon getting home I decided to check it out. Put a G10 on auto takeoff with and without gondolas to 20,000 ft. Here's what I got
With gondolas 08:01"
Without gondolas 07:16"
No question in my mind. By the numbers the gondolas reduce performance by an average of 8% in a straight no wep climb and their drag is modeled.
God knows what they do to turn performance.
Beeg
Originally posted by Beegerite
Drano;
Since the performance charts in AH make no adjustments for with/without gondolas, and knowing that obviously in real life a serious loss of performance would occur by having anything hanging in the slipstream, what proof do we have that the modeling and programming of this game actually makes changes in the weight/lift/drag equation when we bolt the gondolas on?
My feeling would be that a simple test would be to do a timed climb to 20K with/without the gondolas to see if there is a difference. A lack of difference would indicate a lack of programming of this equation. Don't know how we could measure turn performance other than by subjective opinion.
Beeg