Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: K West on January 15, 2002, 08:39:56 PM
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... NOT!
I've seen this too many times in various NG's over the past year or two unfortunately and lately it's gotten downright worse. Here is the latest (and timely) example of a growing impression of the AH community out there. This behavior, just as the online vulgarity and swearing does, repels potential new customers and I would say many who are tired of seeing the behavior grow unchecked.
"All in all I really liked the game but the community was lacking, did not get one welcome, can i help, try this, do this, just follow me. But I did get multiple swear words in multiple languages not very impressive over all!"
From http://agw.warbirdsiii.com/agw//Forum3/HTML/025864.html
I hope HTC is thinking of some solutions. When there are 400 plus in one arena it's pretty damn near impossible for the community to police itself like they mayt have been able to 10 years ago. But back then there was only AW and there were about a tenth the amount of players online in AW at any one time. Then again at $6-$10 an hour there were still a%%holes in the community but they were of a different sort. Nothing like the downright juevinile idiocy we see more than ever in the MA or TA.
Westy
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Originally posted by K West
... NOT!
I hope HTC is thinking of some solutions.
Yeah, I guess you missed this in the NEWS section of the bbs.
We have a new program going into effect soon. It is a mentor program that rewards people for helping out new players during their trial period. How it works is that you can offer to mentor a new player via a host command. If the player accepts your offer, you go on to help him learn the game. After he subscribes, he can select which mentor helped him the most and that mentor will receive a $10 credit to their account from HTC. If you like to help new players, you can probably cover your monthly subscription with no problem. I’ll post the details on this system when it launches.
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No I didn't. Not at all. I was thinking more in terms of HTC being a bit more active. At least begin to send warnings and if need be follow up with suspension or outright banishments. With warnings delivered I'd imagine the occurances of this sort of behavior would drop very noticably.
That program will assist some newbies coming to AH by providing an incentative for some AH players to help them. IMO most mentors would be people who would help in most circunstances anyway imo. With this there is more of an award for going out of thier way and taking more of thier perosnal time to do so.
I don't think however that it will convert many rude and obnoxious players into suddenly well behaved and helpful people in the least. The mind set isn't there to begin with as I believe it's obvious that they'd rather mock and insult someone than help them.
Westy
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Originally posted by K West
I don't think however that it will convert many rude and obnoxious players into suddenly well behaved and helpful people in the least. The mind set isn't there to begin with as I believe it's obvious that they'd rather mock and insult someone than help them.
Westy
I fear you are correct. But, if they issue too many warnings, that will piss people off also.
It seems, they have a fine line that they must tread. Unfortunately there are jerks everywhere, and AH is no exception.
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K West if you spent some time online you'd know this is the exception NOT the rule.
Besides, this guy was obviously a tard. First he stated he asked 3 questions. But then he quotes half a dozen or so. Secon he says he got multitudes of answers, but I only see 1 reply quoted each time (if at all).
Now, from what I can tell this tard was asking questions about a mission on Channel 1, hence the SPY accusations. Now, for a newbie, this is understandable, but this guy flies WB already. So he should have a least a few braincells to figure it out.
Then he posts in AGW, not here. Why not post in here saying "I need help". Sounds like a little WB cheerleading to me.
Each story has two sides, I seen plenty of newbies getting good help here.
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Wow k west.. you must feel right at home.
WELCOME!
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Lets See you want them to be online more often and not improve the game. The Community is ours lets keep it straight on our own.[/SIZE][/COLOR]
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To paraphrase
I logged on and never even flew. Just asked some questions to see what would happen.(ie tried to waste other guys fun time to run a little experiment) and they didnt like it...
Ya go ahead and quit ya dweeb.
And yes I answer alot of questions on line and always have. But you can tell when someone is being a dweeb. In any game.
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Most folks that try it and don't stick around are looking for an excuse not to learn the new layout, strat, competition and flight model. Anytime a person uses "community sucks" automatically means theres another reason why they won't come over, but are unwilling to admit it.
"Familiararity" is a strong potion, keeps you happy with what you have and makes you bitter to change.
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Look. The guy isn't far off the mark because I've seen it quite alot of what he says myself online. As I said I've alsoseen it talked about elsewhere too. The only place I could try and retrieve an example would be from usenets comp.sys.ibm.flight-sims. AW's ng's are as gone as it is, WW2O are unsearchable, AGW most of you (me too quite often) don't care whether the opinion is accurate or not. So...
heh heh heh. Just shoot the messenger. That''ll fix things.
Westy
p.s. ""Familiararity" is a strong potion, keeps you happy with what you have and makes you bitter to change." I agree with that 100% . That is one big reason some folks from other games/sims will never, ever be happy with AH or even try it seriously nor objectively. While some have tried they don;t want to fit in. they want AH to be AW and it never will be for many, many reason. I know some guys from AW who just hung up the stick because they were the "one lady man" types. "She" is gone however from now on they'll wear the black of widower ;) Same goes for WB's and if WB's sht down you'd see many oild sticks put thier gear in the closet too. Well. Besides just the MAC folks.
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Originally posted by K West
heh heh heh. Just shoot the messenger. That''ll fix things.
Westy
Okay! If you insist! (http://www.minorannoyance.net/~spin/Smilies/contrib/blackeye/snipersmilie.gif)
or
(http://www.3dpcgame.com/cwm/s/contrib/blackeye/2gunsfiring_v1.gif)
or
(http://www.3dpcgame.com/cwm/s/contrib/blackeye/AR15firing.gif)
or
(http://www.contrabandent.com/cwm/s/contrib/sarge/BoomSmilie_anim.gif)
(http://www.contrabandent.com/cwm/s/contrib/ed/bluboomteamenforcer.gif)
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There is also something known as the "Vocal Minority" and I admit that in some cases the vocalizations can get negative. However, of the times I've witnessed this it rarely happens for no reason, and when it does happen for no aparent reason it's usualy one m0r0n that's a pimply-faced angst-filled poor excuse for a human because he/she hasnt learned to socialize yet. Sounds to me like someone should get over themselves. ;)
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heh heh heh. Just shoot the messenger. That''ll fix things.
Messenger? You mean you didn't just offer a critique of the AH community?
Maybe I should re-read your original post to find out just where you managed not to do that.
Then, maybe I should re-read all your posts to find the ONE where you may have bucked the trend.
AKDejaVu
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:) Ripsnort. I like the John Wayne double six shooter guy myself.
Westy
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C'mon ripsnort. Don't let your hatred for iEN get in the way of a valid point. I can't stand Hotseat, and have no intentions of playing WBIII. I maintain a WB account only for the S3's, and don't fly 2.77 any other time.
That being said, myself (and many others) have experienced the same welcome as Master. You (generally) don't see that in WB's. Now, I havent flown AH (except off line) in a year, so I don't know what the community is like now. However, Master should also know better. He comes from Flying Circus and Dawn of Aces (where I hang out while I wait for Target:Rabaul), where you generally were/are allowed to ditch when out of ammo or you become a glider. It doesn't have the same intensity of WW2 flying.
I honestly don't think Master was deliberately looking to stir up the sh&t when he tried the game. Probably, like many of us disillusioned with iEN, he just decided to try something different. He had a lukewarm attitude coming in, it appears, but a positive greeting would have sure helped the cause. Convert an enemy to a friend :)
He should try playing Diablo on line heh heh
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Makofan, Flying Circus? The one built by SimGuild?
If it's the same one, I honestly don't see how AH is that much of a step down from it.
-SW
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I've been in AH for 2 years and although I have seen the odd guy acting like a bellybutton from time to time, I havent really seen what kwest is talking about UNTIL last nite.
Basically what happened was, I got rather lucky and did rather well in one particular sortie. The result was two fold, one guy had the decency to give me a which was reciprocated. A second guy called me, my mother, and all who belong to me, names which I wont even bother repeating.
It was nice to see however several 'veterans' of the AH community, dismiss this poor excuse for an amoeba, with a bit more respect than he had shown me. I am deliberatly not naming this guy because it would only result in a flame, and I dont really want to waste any more energy on this twit.
But it shows me two things.
1) The AH community are generally a good bunch.
2) There's always gonna be one or two lowlifes, and there's nothing HTC or we the AH community can do about it, except ignore/squelch these imbeciles.
BTW Stain: I was in Flyin Circus too, and there was more courtesy to be found in Jurassic Park than in there. I eventually gave up when the hackers moved in.
__________________
Flt.Lt.Gremlin
Firebirds, 56 "Fighter" Sqn RAF.
Second Tactical Air Force
(http://www.btinternet.com/~nexx/56sig.gif)
"Quid si coelum ruat - 'What if heaven falls?'"
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I saw the exchange Gremlin was talking about. Rather funny but for a new player coming in on that particular time it would have looked bad. That’s just it though, the time. If you just take the time to learn the game and the community I really don’t see the massive problems out there. Just the occasional hot head.
You know it’s possible that the percentage of open channel abuse hasn’t gone up it’s just a higher number of players now with a growing community.
I think Gremlin hosed down 4 or 5 B17’s out of a mission at that time. I could see how that could impress or upset someone. :)
Zippatuh
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Originally posted by Makofan
C'mon ripsnort. Don't let your hatred for iEN get in the way of a valid point. I can't stand Hotseat, and have no intentions of playing WBIII. I maintain a WB account only for the S3's, and don't fly 2.77 any other time.
Hatred? I have nothing but respect for WB's and its community. I still to this day encourage new flyers to MMOG's to try WB's first then try AH (to me, AH has a tougher learning curve, so I want to fly WB's first to get their feet wet)
The only hatred I have in WB's is for MG. I still have many many friends over in WB's and many are now filtering over here.
Not sure where you picked up any hatred.
Anyway, anyone remember about 6 months ago a AH player that went to WB's and posted the exact same thing about the WB's community? He was flamed stem to stern on AGW.
Hello Pot? Kettle calling! :)
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Originally posted by Zippatuh
I think Gremlin hosed down 4 or 5 B17’s out of a mission at that time. I could see how that could impress or upset someone. :)
Zip, what actually happened was Knights parked a cv off one of our (bish) fields, then proceeded to up innumerable spits, zeros and f6f's. In response I upped a niki and shot down 9 of em.
By the end of the sortie I was v low on gas so needless to say I could turn on a dime. So this dude (the one hurling the abuse) what does he do in response, grabs a couple of his pals launches f6fs, climbs out to me, then complains when i send their tulips home in a crate.
I never make apologies for flying any plane in AH, and I never ask anyone else to. The way I see it, I pay me 15bucks, HTC provides me with the planes and its up to me to choose the plane appropriate to different situations.
Gremlin.
"Firebirds" 56 (Fighter) Sqn RAF - 2TAF.
"Quid si coelum ruat - 'What if heaven falls?'"
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The hostility, or in better words, lack of patience toward the newer sim pilots is greater now than ever before. Last night it was present again. I tried to help the guy out, but I think he finally left after prolonged abuse.
When I first flew long time ago, I learned, lived and died by trial and error but never ran into any difficulties. Some people just need a little bit more push. The rule to follow is, "If ya have nothing good to say or no help to offer, then leave it alone."
The lure to get online and flying is great and some people tend to skip the reading. Sure sometimes it is pain, but none of us has the right to abuse someone who is asking questions.
So relax and enjoy!! :)
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Flyin Circus?? You wouldn't believe the cruel and insensitive things that were said to me in there! It was all I could do to keep from changing my handle to... sob
"sob (sob) v., sobbed, sob•bing, n.— v.i.1. to weep with a convulsive catching of the breath. 2. to make a sound resembling this. — v.t.3. to utter with sobs. 4. to put, send, etc., by sobbing or with sobs: to sob oneself to sleep. — n.5. the act of sobbing. 6. any sound suggesting this. "
lazs
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One thing that WB has better than AH are the trainers online who can be called to assist with the 'call trainer' button.
The first thing I did when logging online was pressing that button.. It wasn't much of a help but at least I got a couple encouraging words and tips on how to use the interface online..
After the first confusion it was much easyer to continue learning. If I'd be met with 'FU' replies and attitude.. Well I don't really know if I'd want to continue learning.
I've done my share of training newbies, mostly when I was playing h2h exclusively. Some of those guys were so lost I couldn't help but play with them without shooting and then start giving advice on what he was doing wrong.
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The guy asked 3 questions...
Wonder if they were
1. How do I take off?
2. How do I shoot?
3. Do I need a joystick to fly?
Depending who is online these questions will get you a world of abuse on-line!
This guy needs to get a thicker skin....
Also.....from personal experience the AH community deserves my repect and gratitude.....this is my second full tour...I have been trained by Ghosth..who donated his time and efforts to help me...and I have shared some pretty personal stuff on these boards which has actually been a real blessing. This community doesn't have to apologise for ANYTHING in my view.
One bad post in WB BBS does not condemn this community in any way!
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Just wanna point out that this is a business venture. The last thing a fledgling business enterprise ought to do is give its customers the boot (actively or otherwise).
The statement West made regarding not helping new people and answering questions is a bit unfair, especially with over 400 people online. I for one do not want to stop what I am doing to tell a new person who simply downloads the program and goes up to fly, ...how to fly. There is simply too much to learn and teach at one time. I suggested in another post a few things which may help the newbie get acclimated to the sim first, eg. post a caveat with the download about the need to read the basic setup, rules and commands first.
Regarding training, there are too few volunteer trainers to expect them to take on the influx of fully paid up and 2 week wonders to successfully help all of them.
But, these things occur when the growth of a business venture outpaces it's current capability to handle all of the new business.
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I have and still do try to answer questions from newbees. I was one of the first trainers for this game, and would gladly do it again the game needs dedicated trainers for newbees. It also need the more advanced trainers to help with the combat aspect of the game. Now ole GRitsnort [/color] is pretty good he can probably teach all the way up to advanced tactics. I flown with him alot hes a very good online buddy.:cool:
Those that say they dont have time to help are in way to deep it just a game. Help the others get up and going then shoot them till they can shoot you. (ask DISCOD):cool:
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You lucky man Curval
Ghosth is one of the best from which to learn. He (like many) left WBs when HS pissed him off too much. Ghosth is a class act all the way
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Originally posted by Makofan
You lucky man Curval
Ghosth is one of the best from which to learn. He (like many) left WBs when HS pissed him off too much. Ghosth is a class act all the way
Yeah, for a "Fargo" kinda guy, he's okay...:D
Thks for the compliments Indian, but I think if you speaking advanced Tactics with the mission planner, yes! Advanced ATA I'll leave to the other guys that are much better at explaining it than I am!
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He (Ghosth) didn't even have one of those "Swedish/American (damn near Canadian) accents" that was so prevalent in the movie "Fargo"....I was disappointed...
"yah margie"
Anyway....yup, I was lucky to have him spend some time with me.
Probably the biggest help he gave me was not even while flying. We sat on the runway and he helped me tweak my joystick for about 15 minutes....worked like a charm after that!
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Originally posted by Curval
Also.....from personal experience the AH community deserves my repect and gratitude.....this is my second full tour...I have been trained by Ghosth..who donated his time and efforts to help me...and I have shared some pretty personal stuff on these boards which has actually been a real blessing. This community doesn't have to apologise for ANYTHING in my view.
One bad post in WB BBS does not condemn this community in any way!
Curval.
See mate, it all depends who's doing the asking and how they ask. Jenga's been lurking on these boards for ages, she keeps an eye out for new users........first thing she said to me about you was "That Curval seems like a really nice guy." Well there's the difference........
Nice guys come last? Nope, nice guys get aid when they ask for it. Dickhead 15 year olds with attitude get the piss taken out of em.......
Anyone remember the two weeks SATAN666 was around in the MA? Now he was sooooo funny. Kept saying on ch2 (country) that he was gonna shoot me down and wanted to know where I was......so I told him. Then .wingman'd him. Found him. Parked my spit 300 yards off his dead 6 (ju88) and waited.......he ask's where I am again so I tell him to look behind him.......laughed my arse off as he shot his own tail off. Aint killshooter great!
(http://www.swoop.com/images/logo_small.jpg)
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You expected to see positive comments about AH on AGW? :rolleyes:
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ROTFLOL Swoop! Thats a great story! Wish I was there! GAWD thats funny!
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Damn Rip thought Id get you for sure with the Gritsnort comment.:D
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Originally posted by indian
Damn Rip thought Id get you for sure with the Gritsnort comment.:D
I kinda like it! I might change my name to it! Loved the movie True Grit. :D