Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: F4UDOA on January 16, 2002, 12:13:10 PM
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Currently in AH we have the likes of the
C202
Hurri IIC
Hurri IID
On the way are the
BF110C
ME-109E
Hurri I
Spit I
Will these A/C see use in the MA? Probably no more than the C202 with the exception of the BF110C which will see action because the dedicated Luftwabbles will fly it (The ME410 would have been a much better choice IMHO). The same thing with our JU-88. It has early war armament so it is easy meat and only gets flown for torpedo missions or by Luftweenies.
It's great that people want an early war plane set however more choices like the A6M2, P-40, F4F or Pe-2 will ensure that we don't see the J2M Raiden, ME410, KI-84, B-24, B-29, TU-2, T-34, M-4 Sherman, Pershing or a list of other viable choices for the MA.
The next person who asked for an early war A/C should be made to fly it for a tour and see if you still like it. :p
Personally I think the prioriies in the MA right now are the
1. Japanese fighter set.<==Mid to late war
2. German Lang range bomber <==I don't know a thing about them.
3. Expansion of the Vehicle set to include the Sherman, T-34 and Perks like the King Tiger and Pershing.
4. B-24
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The Main is a Relaxed Realism arena. You won't see too many early war aircraft flying there..
The Scenario's, the CT is where these A/C will make their mark, and the high quality of pilots that can make some use of them in a historical environment.
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Maybe RIP,
But this small group of elite pilots you speaking about do not represent the majority of AH.
Most members do not take part in senarios. Most people never even go into the CT. More people go to the TA and fly what they want than go to the CT and fly Spit I against BF109E. Just look at the arena numbers on any given day.
The question is what is the most bang for your buck. Just look at the kill stats for the last 5 tours. The numbers in the MA are close to 400 people on busy night and virtually nobody is flying the early war A/C.
I would rather see an early war theater and a late war theater than the CT in it's current format were it gets almost no use vrs the MA which boarders on being over run.
In the mean time we getting a plane set that the vast majority of the members of AH will never even try.
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F4UDOA is right. It's great to have early planes too, but they are rare in MA. What comes to CT, I've logged few times in there with Kronos, but problem is, in my flying times (6 pm GMT) normal numbers for the arenas are:
MA 150-250
CT 0-2
Don't have to think which one I choose. Also special events tends to be something like 2am or so.
This horse has beaten to death million times before, but I'd really like to try RPS. That way we could have early, mid and late wars. Well now I got dragged off the topic again, sry about that.
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I'm not at all adverse to early-war aircraft being added. Actually I'm all for it as I think it opens up a lot more options for the game. Certainly scenarios and what not are an example.
Another may be a second MA with an early war plane set only. I don't think that's something that makes much sense immediately. Down the road it might if there are sufficent numbers of people still playing and a diverse enough plane set. There's a lot of pre-'42 or '43 planes that would be a blast to have available if you put them in an environment where the '43+ thoroughbreds weren't there to dominate.
Insofar as spending time on GV's goes, well, I'm pretty bias here as I rarely use them. I think its a huge waste of time adding any more GV's than what's in the game already though. In the context of AH I just don't see one tank being all that different from another tank, short of in name at least. A 20mm flak would, but then I think field defense guns are sufficiently represented now. Just my biased view on them anyway.
Vortex
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The way to correct this is to put in a "Rolling Plane Set" so the early birds are not matched against the late war birds. Before you can do this though you are going to have to flesh out the plane set a little. Very week in places.
Guys, someone is going to have to git their "Finger Out" and come up with some strike planes for the Axis Carriers. They are hanging out in the wind!:D
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Only problem with RPS is there are quite a few people such as myself who like ONE plane (happens to be a late-war machine), and have utterly NO fun flying something else. An RPS totally destroys the game for people such as myself.
The answer, I think, is to have 1 arena with a fixed planeset and a secod arena with an RPS. Everyone is happy then.
J_A_B
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He said "RPS" :eek: :eek:
We've been over that subject many times in the past 2 1/2 years...most are against a WB-like RPS.
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When I was at the con Hitech mentioned that separate early/late areas in a single arena might work. Perhaps an experiment along these lines is coming.
Hooligan
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I Say bring on the early war aircraft in the MA. Give me a P39D and I will show you some smoking Doras and Hogs. In WarBirds my best record with a P39 is 19 P51-Ds, 5-Me 262s, 25 P47s, 34 190s.D-8s and D-9s, 11 Spitfires, 13 F4U s, 42 Me-109s , and 78 Me 110s. and 23 Zeke's. That is 305 kills for my 204 deaths, I say that was a pretty good ratio for a early war era plane.
Its all on the pilot.. not the plane. I remeber a player in the Warbirds arena named BBGUn that got 15 kills in a Val before ditching... NO he was a talented pilot.
Cheers:)
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Originally posted by F4UDOA
Currently in AH we have the likes of the
C202
Hurri IIC
Hurri IID
(snipped)
Hey, I don't know about you guys, but my Spitfire was whacked by a Hurricane IID, who got me with those damn 40mm Vickers' with an insane long range 80-90 degree deflection shot. One in a million shot? Probably, but it only takes one hit from a 40mm round to ruin one's day.:mad: The thing was, I saw him way out there trying to stay alive, and I ignored him supposing there was no danger. Little did I know that this was one of tank killing Hurris, flown by some guy who needs to buy a lottery ticket tonight.;)
My best,
Widewing
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I dont fly early war planes in the MA. Because there ARENT any.
Closest I have gotten to is flying the spitV (LOVE the 303 loadout.. pingpingpingpingping!) and the 202.
I will be flying the 110 a lot, mainly for jabo and just for the heck of it.
Give me the ju88 night fighter with some CANNONS in the nose and i'll fly it.. the ju88 can give any plane a damn hard time if they get into a dogfight.
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Hi everyone,
I think it's quite obvious that an RPS is the only sensible solution.
Early-war aircraft are only competitive within an early-war context, and even there, the performance differences of subsequent subvariants of the same type are pronounced.
WW2 air combat was based on a race of technology, and it's just that race of technology - and of tactics to keep up with technology - that I expect to see in a WW2 air combat game.
Jab, if you'd rise to the challenge, you'd find that regularly, early-war aircraft have a similar combination of strengths compared to their counterparts as selected late-war types have. Of course, there are differences - but that's what the challenge is about :-)
Regards,
Henning (HoHun)
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"Jab, if you'd rise to the challenge, you'd find that regularly, early-war aircraft have a similar combination of strengths compared to their counterparts as selected late-war types have. Of course, there are differences - but that's what the challenge is about :-) "
It's not that I "can't" fly the other airplanes, it's that I have no FUN flying them. That doesn't just apply to early-war planes either; I like the FW-190D-9 about as much as I like the Spit 5 (which is to say I don't like it one bit). I haven't flown a single PERK plane because I have no interest in them, although those planes would give me advantages I can only dream about in the P-51D. The simple fact is if it isn't labeled "P-51D" then I won't have any fun at all, except maybe for the rare sortie now and then.
It's not about the "challenge" at all. Stick me in a Spit 5 versus 109F's and I'll do as well or better than I do now. I know all the planes in AH pretty well and I can fly them all competently when I want to--the fact that I fly the P-51D is because I WANT to, not because I have to in order to kill stuff (indeed, I get far fewer kills in a 51 than I would in say a N1K2 or LA7). It's about fun, and for me being forced to fly something I don't care about just isn't fun.
I never even CONSIDERED subscribing to WarBirds, as good a game as it is, because of the RPS that limits the 51D to less than 2 weeks per month. You can be dang sure I will quit AH the instant the 51D is no longer available 100% of the time. The game would no longer interest me.
But I can understand that a lot of people may well like an RPS, and so that is why I recommend opening a second arena with a monthly RPS in place. I wouldn't use it, but I'm sure a lot of others would and they deserve their fun, too.
J_A_B
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While this wont help Jab, since he's a one plane guy (I don't know how reflective that mentality is, although I understand the resistence to the RPS), perhaps we can jack the ENY value of these planes up. Maybe instead of using an RPS, HTC should look at using the ENY numbers to make early war planes more appealing. This way JAB gets to keep is D Pony, and I get some sort of remuneration for populating the arena with unique and different vehicles.
When I first ready about perks, I just assumed that this was "other end" of the perk system. This way you get few of the uber planes, and maybe spark some interest in lesser able planes.
-Sikboy
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S!
For those who don`t fly the CT. Average numbers in peak hours are around 40 at the introduction of a setup, declining to around 15-20 at the end of the setup period. If you got 2, then you were likely flying at around 1am EST. We are looking at making the turnaround weekly instead of bi-weekly, in order to keep things fresh. However, that depends on the terrain availability.
When we get some different terrains, (one`s which have never been seen in the MA, of which we have 4 expected in the next short while) I think our numbers will go up. And I`m gonna go out on a limb and say when we get some of the new planes of 1.09, and we have a BoB setup with a new NW Europe terrain, you may be surprised at the numbers present in the CT. I will predict 70+... :)
The CT is only going to get better. Right now it is in its infancy, having to use terrains designed for 3 sides with Strat and scoring systems which are designed for the MA. We intend to change that. We are here for the long haul. :D
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Yes.. imagine that.. hurr I kills a 51D or D9 or La7.. and gets 4 perks per kill ;)
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Originally posted by Tac
I dont fly early war planes in the MA. Because there ARENT any.
Closest I have gotten to is flying the spitV (LOVE the 303 loadout.. pingpingpingpingping!) and the 202.
I will be flying the 110 a lot, mainly for jabo and just for the heck of it.
Give me the ju88 night fighter with some CANNONS in the nose and i'll fly it.. the ju88 can give any plane a damn hard time if they get into a dogfight.
I had been flying the Spit Mk.IX and decided to try the Mk.V, figuring it would probably offer a tad better turn rate at the expense of speed and climb. I also figured I'd be an easy mark for the hot fighters, but what the hell, nothing ventured, nothing gained, right?
Shortly after getting airborne, I spotted an Fw 190 (turned out to be an A-8) and he was tackled by some other guy in what looked like a Typhoon or Tempest. I positioned myself so that I could cut off the 190 should he turn my way. He did, and I jumped all over him. Down very low, and going too slow, he was trapped and died in short order. In order to prevent being bounced during a climb, I like to spiral up, constantly turning. This I did until I had worked up to 10k. Just then, I spot a Ju 88 heading for my field at about 12k. Positioning myself slightly behind and about 1.5k below, I pulled up and blasted the Junkers in the belly. That's 2 down. As I continued through in a loop, I spot two La-7s, probably the escort.
Rolling out at the top of the loop, I turned into the Lavochkins, hauling around in a blackout turn, easing off only to get a quick snap-view. These two broke in opposite directions, so I concentrated on the one which went to my left. It took just three turns to get enough lead, and I shot off its wing, the pilot bailing out. That's 3. Meanwhile, the other Lavochkin is having a hard time getting a shot because I'm always turning, and he now has a friend as a Corsair trys a run, easily avoided. I go head to head with the La-7, breaking hard right. I roll out of a high yo-yo, and get decent position for a quick shot as he crosses my nose. My burst hits solid and he goes straight in. That's 4. This is beginning to be fun. I turn for the Corsair, but he's seen enough and has moved on to find an easier target. As I watch the F4U disappear over a ridge line, I spot yet another fighter boring in, this one's an La-5FN. I break into him, we pass canopy to canopy, and I haul around to the right in yet another blackout turn. Easing out of the turn, I can see that the Lavochkin is still trying to haul around to meet me, but it's too late, he should have extended and reversed later. Getting behind is now easy, I execute a rolling high yo-yo to the left and drop right onto his tail. I fire a quick burst (all that I have remaining are the .303s), getting a few hits. Panicked, (yes, that's how it's spelled), the Lovochkin pilot trys to avoid me by turning left, then right, then back again. But, every time he turns, he losses speed and I close in to less than 100 yards. As the Lavochkin skims the ground, I continue to pepper him with the .303s, and in desperation, he turns too hard, stalls and splats. That's 5.
Since I still had half of my fuel remaining, and about 500 rounds of .303, I spiraled up to 12K and headed for my field. Alas, no one else comes out to play.:(
My point in relating this is simple: Do not discount the older types.
Should the opposition be dumb enough to play to the older plane's strengths, all bets are off. Three Lavochkin drivers discovered that an old Spitfire Mk.V is formidable in a good ol' fashioned "furball". Even a rookie like myself was well served by an older fighter when the bad guys decided that it was time to stall-fight with the best dogfighting fighterplane in the game. Worse, these guys tried this in a deep, blind canyon. It must have been like watching marbles race around in a bowl.:D
Just imagine what an experienced AH pilot could do with the Spitfire Mk.V, if a duffer like myself could manage to kick some serious Lavochkin butt. :eek:
My regards,
Widewing
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A couple of things.
1. I am in favor of an early war arena 1940 to 43, and a late war arena 1944 to 45. In fact I would would be in favor of a post war arena with P-51H's, F8F's, F7F's,P-80's, Sea Fury's and maybe even my beloved F2G.
2. Widewing,
I love flying supposely inferior planes against "Uber" planes. My favorite is the A6M5. Spit's V or IX are a truely easy mark against them. Most Spit pilots have no idea what to do other than pull hard on the stick so it's makes them even easier the harder they pull. So any time the arena gets to full of them I up in my Zeke and give them a little taste of their own medicine.
However chasing La-7's and Dora's around in a Zeke, C202 or Hurri can get old quick. Hence the need for an early war arena.
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Hey widewing, i shot you down in my hurri IID the other day too lol.
There were gv's North of our base so i took a hurri IID to deal with them. After 1 run on the tanks an a6m showed up (widewing) and so a fight between us broke out. Eventually i got him to overshoot and he performed a nice flat turn for me. Ooo what a lovely target:) popped off about 3 rounds and one lands smack bang on his tail. Down to earth his a6m fell- minus a tail off course.
Those 40mm are very nice indeed:D
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Same thing happened in Warbirds ... the worst enemy of the RPS is the Pony pilot. No other pilot looks so unable to choose and have fun flying 1940-43 fighters. Quite interesting .... we should rename this sim "P-51D High".
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Originally posted by thrila
Hey widewing, i shot you down in my hurri IID the other day too lol.
There were gv's North of our base so i took a hurri IID to deal with them. After 1 run on the tanks an a6m showed up (widewing) and so a fight between us broke out. Eventually i got him to overshoot and he performed a nice flat turn for me. Ooo what a lovely target:) popped off about 3 rounds and one lands smack bang on his tail. Down to earth his a6m fell- minus a tail off course.
Those 40mm are very nice indeed:D
This is why I won't fly the Zero any longer. It won't roll worth a nickel.
When you try to reverse at anything over 250mph, it won't roll. That makes for a flat turn, and easy meat for anyone paying attention. If you have a decent head of speed up in the A6M5, and get bounced, it's best to pull into a loop, because you cannot roll into a turn fast enough to avoid getting clobbered.
Moreover, I don't recall the above incident, but I do recall seeing a Hurri out at about 1.4K, whom I ignored. I wasn't chasing any Hurri, but hot after an NiK2. I probably never noticed you, and assumed that the other Hurri got me from long range. You guys
just love rookies, don't you? :(
During my first forays into the MA, I tried about half of the fighters available. After getting beat up pretty good, I learned how survive. Not only that, but I learned what to fly and what best fit my method. Fighters like the La-7 do not fit my style, and I do not enjoy playing sniper. I'd much rather break down my enemy in a hard turn fight, because I like the challenge. I like the Spits. I prefer the Mk.V, and after switching to it, I flew three sorties, killed 10 badies, without a single death. I did have a deadstick landing after my radiator was hit in a head to head pass that killed a Mk.IX. I was lucky that my field was only about 5 minutes away. The engine quit about a mile out, but I had plenty of altitude, and made good use of my limited sailplane experience.
As to overshooting: Normally, If my closure rate is too high, I'll barrel roll around you to kill my speed. Should I find myself not able to do that in time, I'll go vertical, as the much slower plane won't readily be able to follow.
My only crack at a Hurri was yesterday. I executed a split-S, and tried to reach him before the rest of the Rook horde. I didn't get there in time before someone else nailed him.
That's one thing that really gets me annoyed. You work your way into a good shooting position and some huckleberry cuts right in front of you. I nearly shot down a Typhoon from my own side when he pulled in front of me just as I opened fire. He was damn lucky that all I had left was .303 ammo, 'cause he got peppered pretty good. Some of these thieves are so bold that it's hard for me to restrain myself from shooting them down just to get a clear shot at MY target. Several times, overly ambitious idiots have tried to shoot around me to get at my target. Last night this happened when some pony hit me trying to get hits on the Spit I was chasing. I high yo-yo'd, dropping behind the Mustang and gave him a dose of his own medicine. He broke off and I eventually got the Spit. Sometimes, your own so-called comrades are a greater danger than the enemy.
Ever watch PeeWee soccer? All the little kids congregate on the ball, kicking each other more than the ball. No one remembers to play their position. That's what the MA frequently breaks down to.
My regards,
Widewing
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It might be a good idea not to shoot down those kill-stealing cretins Widewing, as killshooter will kill YOU if you shoot your own side :)
"the worst enemy of the RPS is the Pony pilot."--gatt
Well that stands to reason since the Spit and 109 drivers still have their choice ride in a 1939 setup. In fact the 1939 Spits and 109's stack up better against the rest of the competition than the 1944 ones do.
I've got nothing against RPS itself--in fact it is an interesting idea that a lot of people like. However, since at least as many people DON'T like it, what's so horrible about suggesting that the RPS be implemented in a different, alternate arena? That way, everyone can be happy. Wouldn't it be better for everyone to be happy all the time, than to have everyone unhappy half the time or some people unhappy constantly?
Not to mention for historical setups such as the CT, an RPS of some form or another is the ONLY logical setup to use. The MA is a fantasy war between chess pieces and so a historical-based plane setup really doesn't belong there.
J_A_B
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Originally posted by F4UDOA
A couple of things.
1. I am in favor of an early war arena 1940 to 43, and a late war arena 1944 to 45. In fact I would would be in favor of a post war arena with P-51H's, F8F's, F7F's,P-80's, Sea Fury's and maybe even my beloved F2G.
2. Widewing,
I love flying supposely inferior planes against "Uber" planes. My favorite is the A6M5. Spit's V or IX are a truely easy mark against them. Most Spit pilots have no idea what to do other than pull hard on the stick so it's makes them even easier the harder they pull. So any time the arena gets to full of them I up in my Zeke and give them a little taste of their own medicine.
However chasing La-7's and Dora's around in a Zeke, C202 or Hurri can get old quick. Hence the need for an early war arena.
Isn't that great fun, putting some hurt on those guys in their hotrods?:D
I like the Zero, but it is absolutely necessary to get it slowed down quickly, 'cause it's not able to make a decent break turn due its ailerons being ineffective at speeds over 250 mph. This caused me to get whacked 3 or 4 times flying it. On the plus side,
I did manage to get 3 kills by stallfighting. They key to surviving in the Zeke is to kill speed BEFORE being bounced, or going vertical as soon as a threat is determined.
One place where I would seriously consider flying the Zeke, is from an airfield under attack. Taking off from the hanger, and assuming you can get airborne without being strafed, you can really play hell with anyone silly enough to come down after you. In that respect, I do not sweat the B&Z guys, because if I see them coming, it's easy to side-step their attacks. This is why I have come to believe that guys into stallfighting must have superior situational awareness. You really need to know where EVERYONE is at all times. If you don't know, sooner or later some snapshot artist is going to ping you from way off angle. The guys in the La-7s, Mustangs, T-Bolts and so on will try to get a quick hit on you, and frequently, they decide to turn a few times trying to get an angle. However, that's a mistake they may come to regret. It seems to me that the really good guys flying the B&Z types are very patient, not being so anxious for the kill that they surrender good sense and try fighting in a manner that exposes the weaknesses of their fighter.
I saw a typical example of ambition overcoming good sense. I took out after a P-47D-30, who quickly split-S'd into a dive, leveling off at about 200 feet above the sea surface. No way could I close up during the dive, and once we leveled out he began to extend away. Well, I saw no advantage in following him where I didn't want to go alone, so I tried a simple trick. Bearing off about 20 degrees, I hoped that he would see the range rapidly open up and think I had lost interest and turned around. Sure enough, the Jug takes the bait and he begins a right turn. I ease back to meet Jug and catch him coming out of the turn, firing about 15 degrees off his nose. He went straight into the water behind me as I chandelled to my left.
This guy became impatient and committed himself to a fight where he surrendered his principle tactical advantage. If he would have extended further, he could have come back with a speed and altitude advantage. Smart Jug drivers like Sancho and Ammo would not have taken the bait, and either would have continued on their merry way, or returned with altitude and speed in their pockets. Thus making my sortie much more exciting.
You are perfectly on target: Never stallfight with a Zero. Either use hit and run or get him to accelerate to a speed where his ailerons stiffen. If he is very slow, try a snap shot, then just fly on past and look for an easier target. If he's got some speed up, go after him, but never turn more than 90 degrees with him, or he'll rapidly gain the advantage.
One maxim that has always proven correct is, "never fight the way your enemy fights best."
My best,
Widewing
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Really good reading topic :) I agree with just about all of you last post Wideing. Especially, "I would seriously consider flying the Zeke, is from an airfield under attack."
I found the key to getting airborn quickly at an under attack airfield is to spawn in the hangar, two notches of flaps, start engine, give 100% throttle and when the fuselage starts to contest that power.. GO!" Get your wheels up ASAP and start turning, as you reel those flaps in, before an enemy bogy can get on your tail.
A well flown Zeke is a literal mass murderer in a low alt dogfight :)
Westy
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Ripsnort:
The MA is not a Relaxed Realism arena by any stretch of the imagination. It may not be what you prefer for whatever reasons you have but, it is not relaxed.
In the MA there are spins, stalls, and conditions modeled that will bring on stalls etc. that would not be in evidence in a relaxed modeled arena.
In a relaxed realism environment it was possible to pull unlimited g's without any apparent consequences to an a/c. If a pilit ran out of E in a climb, the a/c simply rolled over and fell until it built up enough speed. Then all the pilit had to do was pull on the stick and resume a flight path.
Hell, I'm still trying to figure out what people in here mean by "real", seems to be different for each person.
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RPS??
Dammit, that just cost me a keyboard.
I respectuflly submit that if you want RPS in the main, go fly the 'other' second rate sim... the one still in business... barely.
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Originally posted by K West
Really good reading topic :) I agree with just about all of you last post Wideing. Especially, "I would seriously consider flying the Zeke, is from an airfield under attack."
I found the key to getting airborn quickly at an under attack airfield is to spawn in the hangar, two notches of flaps, start engine, give 100% throttle and when the fuselage starts to contest that power.. GO!" Get your wheels up ASAP and start turning, as you reel those flaps in, before an enemy bogy can get on your tail.
A well flown Zeke is a literal mass murderer in a low alt dogfight :)
Westy
Yeah, I tried it this evening (in the Zero), taking off from a hanger, right in the middle of a brawl. I'd get two badies, then get pinged from off angle. Twice they wrecked an elevator, killing my turning ability. Once I was able to weave my way down to a landing, dodging badies. The second time, I simply baled out to avoid getting whacked, not being able to evade B&Z types. However, I did not open the chute untl very near the ground. I was forced to bail two or three other times after taking minor pings (the Zero must be modeled as being made of Balsa). All in all, I was able to manage 5 kills and 4 assists for three or four bailouts. Which to me was a miracle when I consider how badly I was outnumbered most of the time.:eek:
I considered going back and getting a Mk.V, but the wife announced that dinner was on the table.:rolleyes:
Tonight, I'll try something different.
My regards,
Widewing
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S!
If you guys want some early `43 planes, (including the Hurri IIc and IId) then come to the CT.
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RPS was the best thing that happened to WB, IMO. There were, of course, the dissenting voices saying "I won't fly if I can't have my Late War Uber Plane." Yet, the arenas were always full even during early war times. The Quake dweebs (of which there seem to be quite a few here in AH. FAR more than I ever saw in WB years back.) got weeded out, and those who were really interested in flying learned how to stick something other than the wonderplane of the day. Raised the overall level of the ocmpetition. This is a good thing.
A split set of early & late war arenas does not work. Been tried before in other games. There are some things which could be done to make it a bit more viable, but overall, people are gonna gravitate towrds where the crowds are. And that'll be the late-war MA. I desire to fly early war planes against early war planes, but if my choice is to fly on a full sized map with 15 other pilots on it I'm just gonna say "Screw it" and head to where there are hundreds of opponents.
D
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Theoretically I would like to have an RPS. However from bitter experience HTC knows enough customers hate the idea that it would not be prudent to go that route. Nor do 2 separate arenas work. However, as far as I know, nobody has tried making an arena with Early/Mid and late war areas. From what HTC told me at the convention I believe we may see some variation on this idea coming our way.
HTC knows as well as anybody that Hurris, 109Es, 202s etc... are not going to see much use in the current MA setup. Since the HTC crew
a) are not idiots
b) are adding these early war planes
c) know that an RPS would be unpopular
and
d) know that multiple arenas don't work
they must be planning something. I maybe wrong about what changes are coming to the MA but something surely is going to change. HTC is going to find some way for early war planes to fight each other without having to dodge Doras and Stangs all the time.
Hooligan
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"Nor do 2 separate arenas work. "
Really? How odd. Airwarrior successfully used the multiple arena concept for over 10 years. Now you say it doesn't work? That's news to me!
In days past AW had as many as 8 or 9 arenas, all filled with happy players. There was a place for everyone, Europe theatre, Pacific theatre, Europe Axis versus Allies, fightetown, newbie arena, Pacific Axis versus Allies, WW1, Korea, even big pacific with all planes enabled and a replica of Pearl Harbor in the middle (that island made for great tank combat).
Yet now people forget this and think that everyone needs to be shoved into one single arena. What a waste of AH's tremendous potential. Why do people forget the past so quickly and feel the need to re-invent the wheel?
It DOES work, if done properly.
J_A_B
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AH dont have the plane set for that kind of setup yet
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Originally posted by Hooligan
Theoretically I would like to have an RPS. However from bitter experience HTC knows enough customers hate the idea that it would not be prudent to go that route. Nor do 2 separate arenas work. However, as far as I know, nobody has tried making an arena with Early/Mid and late war areas. From what HTC told me at the convention I believe we may see some variation on this idea coming our way.
HTC knows as well as anybody that Hurris, 109Es, 202s etc... are not going to see much use in the current MA setup. Since the HTC crew
a) are not idiots
b) are adding these early war planes
c) know that an RPS would be unpopular
and
d) know that multiple arenas don't work
they must be planning something. I maybe wrong about what changes are coming to the MA but something surely is going to change. HTC is going to find some way for early war planes to fight each other without having to dodge Doras and Stangs all the time.
Hooligan
errr, CT???
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The pacific europe separation is a good one. I like the MA since all RTC from past and present seem to be flying together now, but I must admit the pacific plane set is my favorite. The F4f and F6F were forces to be contended with. The kate was a great plane, the p51 could do what it was supposed to. Rarely does a zero pilot get 'scared' when 51 comes in, and rarely does a 51 get scared when he sees a zero. I think matching up a pacific theater and europe theater would be a great thing for AH once they get the plane set.
Little bugs me more than seeing a niki when I am flying a 190.
Not because I am worried, but it is just not right. I think we should have at least have a pacific theater with many carriers, and many american and empire planes.
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The new planes will see lots more flying time than the perk planes we have now. The F4U-4 is a true hanger queen.
Some people will fly the early planes in the MA; maybe for a perk quest, the cool paint jobs, the challenge, to practice for events, who know why. These planes will for sure be heavily used for events and in the CT.
I understand F4UDOA's point about HTC's resources not going into filling out the late war MA, but I trust they will get around to it.
For the others, we don't need a RPS to force people to fly certain planes and the MA is fine how it is. I like to fight everything with anything, and it is interesting to match up planes that did not fight IRL.
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I might agree on the 'no RPS' idea. How would it be if I had to wait for 3 weeks only to fly a 262 for one day ? And that be a Saturday evening ?!?
happens that I am a huge 262 fan. I want a 262 24/7 ;)
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RPS was the best thing that happened to WB, IMO
Yup and there were many of us that thought it was the second WORST thing that happened to WB's, followed shortly by the worst. Their translation to a purely Axis vs Allied arena.
Many of the "old timers" in AH, are people that left WB's specifically for those two very reasons. Myself included.
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Sorry J_A_B I'd always considered AW to be little more than a Quake type game, so I never really comment on it when I'm discussing online combat flight sims. :)
Verm, we'll hafta disgree about the RPS. I think it seriously benefited those who wished to truly become better pilots by forcing them out of their comfort zone and into possibly unfamiliar planes. Ones that they had to work at flying a little bit. This also helped to weed out the chaff. I have little concern or sympathy for those who only wished to zoom around in their uber-plane. (I DO think that they could have done some things a bit difefrently to make the RPS work better & be more appealing to everyone.)
After being there since it went live, I left WB shortly before any Axis vs. Allies thing came about. (In fact, this is the first I've heard of it as I didn't really keep up on happenings.) That woulda been a definate breaker for me tho, if I'd still been around. I like the type vs. type aspect of the MA.
Hooligan, I'm not sure what you mean by "early & late war areas"? All in one arena? Like some sorta boundry that can't be crossed?
I hafta amend my earlier statement that seperate arenas WON'T work just a bit. There were, for a time, seperate early/late arenas in WB. The early arena would be almost vaiable for about 2 hours a nite, with maybe 30 - 40 pilots. Sorta like CT is here. Other than that, it was deserted.
IMO, part of the problem with seperate arenas is that the powers-that-be usually decide that anyone who wants to fly early war planes must also be a masochist and wants to fly without icons or other crutches that we hafta use to overcome the limitations of a computer system. Not so, in most cases. Most of us just wanna fly planes that are relatively competative with each other, without having the uberplanes constantly interrupting the fun.
D