Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: discod on January 16, 2002, 03:00:48 PM
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I began flying the LA7 recently in an effort to find it's weaknesses so I can kill more of them. As a result I have also discovered why it is such a popular plane:
- Lethal in the hands of the average pilot? YES
- It's really fast
- It turns quite well at slow and fast speeds and retains E
- It climbs very well
- Has a high dive speed
- Super fast rate of fire
- 3x 20mm cannons
- Is great for snapshot kills
- Visibility- Front and sides= Average Rear=Average
- Can take a lot of hits and still RTB
- Seems to be leathal at any alt even in a disadvantaged position
I currently have 32 kills and 9 deaths in it (6 of them were from ack)
Now compare that to the F4U1-C which has a nominal 8 point perk cost:
- Lethal in the hands of the average pilot? NO
- It's slow in level flight
- It can turn well in the right hands but bleeds E terribly
- Rolls over and stalls very easily even at +300mph
- It climbs poorly
- It's the best dive speed/manuevrability plane in the game :)
- Good rate of fire
- 4 x 20mm cannons
- Is great for snapshot kills
- Visibility- Front and sides= Great Rear=Poor
- Can take a lot of hits and still RTB
- Best VULCH plane in the game
- Is leathal when it has altitude and speed advantage
QUESTION #1: Should LA7 be perked??? MY OPINION: No it should not be perked because I like having good free planes. They are fun to fly and even funner to kill in an inferior plane :D
QUESTION #2: Should F4U1-C be un-perked? MY OPINION: No, but I think more guys should fly it to see just how hard it is to get good in.
QUESTION #3: Should the 205 be perked? MY OPINION: YES definately!!! Make it worth 100 perks minimum :D
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Eh, it is a dead argument. The La7 is in the game to give people who suck a fighting chance at feeling like they are good at the game. Every game has to have a plane that is 'better' than other planes, just so new people (and people that suck) have something to fly. It wouldn't be real fun for em if they had to fly an airplane that gave them no advantages over most of the planeset, because then they'd die to much and wouldn't have fun.
I'd say most vets that can tell their bellybutton from a hole in the ground could go 10 or 15 to 1 in the la7.
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Urchin, just to give you some data to back up that statement you made about a vet who could tell his bellybutton from a whole in ground could get atleast 10:1 in the La7....
Tour 14:
AKSWulfe has 23 kills and has been killed 1 time in the La-7.
It's a monster of a plane, and still gets me as to why the Chog is perked but the La7 isn't...
Certainly the Chog won't be as popular now, since it has been perked many better aircraft have come out AND it had weight added to it.
-SW
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Oh man, Creamo WAS right after all... this is endless !
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btw, I'm promoting unperking the Chog.
-SW
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The LA7 is indeed incredible--but only under 5K. From 5K to 10K it's very good, but over 10K it loses all its advantages and is merely marginal. Over 18K it's a flying coffin.
Oh, and you're out of gas in about 30 minutes but that's okay because you run out of ammo even faster and it has no JABO ability to speak of.
The F4U-1C has performance that holds up fairly well at all altitudes, way more cannon ammo and guns with better ballistics, and is a ground attack monster. Plus it's available on carriers and has decent range. IMO the F4U-1C is a better all around airplane than the LA7, although if the F4U-1C is at a disadvantage in certain specific situations (namely low altitude dogfighting).
The LA7 is sort of like a hot rod--very good performance in certain circumstances (low altitude fighting for short amounts of time), but it's crap in almost every other aspect.
J_A_B
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F4U-1C was the answer to all of the questions when it was out.
What do I take for the best air-to-air? F4U-1C.
What do I take for the best JABO? F4U-1C.
What do I take for the best anti-vehicle work? F4U-1C.
Because the answer was the same for all jobs that a fighter does the F4U-1C was used in far greater numbers than any other aircraft, more than twice as much as the runner up. Now the most used aircraft doesn't quite have twice the kills of the seveth most used aircraft.
discod,
The F4U-1C might not be fast compared to the La-7, but it is faster than the great bulk of fighters in AH. I can only think of 6 or 7 non-perk fighters that are faster than the F4U-1C.
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"It's the pilot, not the plane."
*snork*
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So far in this tour I have 30 kills and 10 deaths in the La-7.... 3:1.
I suck. :p
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Untill this date I've lost only one 1:1 encounter against la7 with me flying p47.
I've killed la7's in all model jugs, bounced them, turned with them, scissored with them.. La7 is real trouble only if it has a friend. Then it masters the quick run - reverse - ping ping game.
OTOH I've had quite easy kills in it myself.. If people would use it more like a b&z plane instead of trying to turnfight in it, it'd do much better on the arena.
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I don't agree that the forward view from the La-7 is average, it's poor. That's the big difference between the Hog-C and the La-7. You can pretty easily hit someone out to 600 yards with the good forward view of the Hog-C, while the La-7 view doesn't allow much deflection shooting at all. The La-7 is better for pilots with bad SA or no patience, but the Hog-C is better for a pilot who intends to have and keep an E advantage at all times. It also has more ammo and range.
ra
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face it.. the f4 just looks sweeter :)
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La7 can run down an F4u,out turn it,out climb it, and kill it. The majority of fights in AH are below 10k. I would say the majority is below 5k even. LA7 is king at low to mid alt. F4U is king at making a diving attack then running away (then getting shot down or spending precious time climbing again). I think the F4u vs the LA7 is similar to F4f against A6m.
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Id much rather see the la7 perked as cheaply as the c-hog instead.
After all, they do have the la5 just like the smurflings have the Dhog and -1 :)
La7's strenghts are far more than its weaknesses.
Its only weaknesses are poor low speed handling, its ballistics (which in itself is almost not worthy of being considered a weakness, all non-allied rides have ballistics which are just as crappy) and hi alt handling (another not worthy of being considered a weakness, most fights either drag to the deck or the la7 can use its monster engine to dive to really high speeds from that alt).
You can only beat a competent la7 driver if you get him to turn constantly or to sciscor. And if hes competent he wont get into that situation.
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LA7 suck and their pilots are the biggest rutabagas, on average of course. All they know how to do is run away after a missed firing pass, in this regard its excellent speed and acceleration serve it very well.
Chog is the biggest mistake HTC ever made in AH, perking Chog was one of HTCs best moves. Period.
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Somehow, your manhood can be measured by the plane you fly in Aces High?
Right... :rolleyes:
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The reason I made this post was not to say that one plane is better than the other. I realize that any plane in the hands of a skilled pilot is leathal against all other planes.
I was merely making an observation that the LA7 seems to have as many if not more reasons to be perked than the C-Hog. However my POV is probably skewed since the C-Hog is my favorite plane.
Sorry GRUNHERZ I feel exactly the opposite :D But you can shoot me down a bunch of times for being a C-Hog lover and I'll understand.
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LA-7 is a plane for bad fighter jockeys??
Ok, disable the LA-7 in the hangar, if you have more than 100 fighter perks;)
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Do you really find La7 more dangerous than Yak9U?
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You Know this is the problem with the perk system. specialy now people know if you cry hard enough HTC will cave in and a plane will be perked.
There never should have been a perk system allowed in the MA. It should have been all Rides allowed except jets. The perk system should have been kept to the CT or special events. in the CT it should be modified.
There should be two CTs ... PTO and ETO-ATO, WIth map rotations slower then the MA. and rather then just choosing sides (bish rooks knights) you hace to first choose a side (Axis or Alied) then you have to choose a force (IJN USN USAAF LW RAF ect). this further limits your plane set historically. Say I goto the PTO CT, I choose Allied and then USN. I now can only fly US navy planes. I have to start with the Camp out with the F4f and early USN bomber. Then when I make enough hops. destroy ebough enemy stuff and get enough kills I have enough points to open up a new plane set to me in this case the f6f and TBM. I can now fly more craft for the rest of the camp. In other words you spend perk points to get rank when you get rank you can't loose it and you can fly more aircraft. However If you're Pilot dies or gets captured you loose 50% of your unspent perk points. Or HTC can make it that you loose all Perks from that hop/mission If you are killed 75% if captured. 50% If bailed succefully 25% If Ditched succesfully and 0% if landed succefully. This makes surviving more of an issue in the CTs. Iam not sure how Mass multi player arena's are set up now but we will at least need ......
MA (Main Arena)
CT-ETO/ATO (Combat Theater European Theater of Operations/ African theater of Operations)
CT-PTO (Combat Theater - Pacific Theater of Operations)
DA (Dualing Arena)
SEA1 (Special Events Arena 1)
TA (Training Arena)
We will also Need a much bigger plane set Allowing for 4 Era catagories for Promotions. Early war, Mid War, Late war, Very Late war/special. The force groups would be a pain with the plane set we have specially For Italy and the IJN. The force groups should be.
ETO/ATO
Allied
RAF
USAAF
USSR
Axis
LW
Italy
PTO
Allied
USN/USMC
USAAF
RAF
Axis
IJN
IJA
(May have to be one force Unless the plane set gets big enough)
In any event this should end the problem with the perk system. using perk points only in the CTs for promotion rather then buying planes. and using it to buy planes in the Special events arena's. Leaving the MA untouched with no jets.
This system Promotes the CTs, Leaves the MA as is (a disorganised furbal arena) ends the problems with perking planes and whining (well nothing can truly end that). It will even make transiant Air warrior players feel at home. and last but not least adds some realism to CTs. Don't like MA play or planes play iin the CTs.
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Pah.. LA7 its a nice plane, but damn hard to see someone to shoot at them. I consider myself an average pilot. I fly the Typhoon alot. Many consider it a poor plane, but i am 5:1 against LA7 in a typhoon and at low alt cause the typhoon sucks horribly at anything above 15k. I dont fly the hog much, but id rather have the rockets and or bombs just in case. (If i had to make a choice of those two)
Typhoons ROCK!!!!!
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cjay, thats because the tiffie is one of the few planes that can compete with the la7 in accel and speed. The la7 virtually dominates any other plane if you put a competent pilot on it.
The yak9u is really dangerous, but its not a forgiving plane if you screw up your acm. La7? Screw up and its engine allows the pilot to run away from danger instantly. A yak on the other hand, cant.
Maybe give the la7 a 4 pnt perk cost. That should be fair I think, its half as effective as a chog anyway (versatility and hitpower).
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>>>F4U is king at making a diving attack then running away (then getting shot down or spending precious time climbing again). I think the F4u vs the LA7 is similar to F4f against A6m.<<<
Hehe, Several have said in this post (rightly IMO) that it depends on the pilot. I go one further, it also depends on the type of fighting one uses; especially in certain airplanes.
Now you take the P-51, otherwise known as the Runstang. Those who aren't very able will run in it after a pass, those who know how to fight in it won't.
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
Do you really find La7 more dangerous than Yak9U?
I consider them equally boring to fight. :)
-- Todd/Leviathn
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And I am really tired of boredom-whiners ! ;)
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In the Main Arena(s) all planes should have some perk point value. If someone is absolutely no good and cant manage to maintian even a single digit perk account then the training arena is where that person should be anyway.
I sense that the LA7 isnt bleeding enough energy in high speed ACM. Couple this unbelievable E retention with the engine from hell and you have
a magical moment.
Fortunately the LA-5(7) cockpit layouts are a horrible place to look out from and offer at least a partial handicap to the VVS dweeb.
Yeager
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Tac you must be flying a different tiffy to me, because the tiffy is unable to compete with the la7 at all. The tiffie does have a high top speed but the la7 is faster by 10-15mph (if i remember correctly). The tiffy has horrible acceleration don't know where you got the idea that it had one that could compete with the la7's acceleration.
Not only does the la7 have a higher top speed and better acceleration but it performs better it almost every area. It outrolls, outclimbs and outturns the tiffy at all alts. The only thing the tiffy has on the la7 is firepower and that is no good if the enemy isn't in your sights. The tiffy doesn't have any performance in any one area that is greater than the la7's. So the tiffy can't use any one area to combat against the la7.
Quite frankly when i see a co alt or high la7, i cry:(
Not that i don't whack them when i have alt advantage.:D
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horrible accel? the tiffie? what?
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Originally posted by Yeager
In the Main Arena(s) all planes should have some perk point value. If someone is absolutely no good and cant manage to maintian even a single digit perk account then the training arena is where that person should be anyway.
I sense that the LA7 isnt bleeding enough energy in high speed ACM. Couple this unbelievable E retention with the engine from hell and you have
a magical moment.
Fortunately the LA-5(7) cockpit layouts are a horrible place to look out from and offer at least a partial handicap to the VVS dweeb.
Yeager
You just alienated all the relative newbi's who for your information pay the same amount of money as you do.
Alot of players don't have the time to build up there perk points to fly the rides and you get alot of cry babies that want anything they have problems fighting perked and with enough whine power they get it (as in the chog).
I have to disagree with you there should absolutely no perk points system in the MA. the MA is perty much the general furball areana the real areana would be a Historic arena like the CT where you don't have spits fighting spits or p38's fighting f4u's.
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well it seems to be slow in acceleration whenever there's a con on my 6, tac. Thats probably cause i'm staring at the speedometer shouting "c'mon u b%$£^&d faster, faster!!!":D
I'll go check on that the accel thing, but i've never been comfortable climbing at slow speeds because i've always felt it's accel wasn't good enough to get me from a 160 climb speed to a decent fighting speed.
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Tac, thrila should be talking about the typhie's horrible acceleration at 40k ;)
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err....yeah!! what alt did you think i was talking about tac, we were tallking about 40k right?:D
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What a stinking dead horse. Please find another equine corpse to beat upon.
I would take the time to debate each of your points, but there is not need. All the evidence is in the usage/kills/death numbers, and those numbers say your arguement is bullpucky.
When the F4U-1C was unperked it was easily #1 in every category, by a very large margin.
Right now the La7 is only #3 or #4 in those categories, let alone leading the pack.
If you can't stand the La7, cancel your account, and go fly WWIIOL.
All these anti-La7 whiners are starting to out yell even the Luftwobbles. Are we seeing a new genre of whiners? The anti-red McCarthyismWobble ;)
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That or I bet he's trying to accelerate with the nose above horizon *G*
Tiffie vs. La7 fights are like P-51 vs P-51 fights... loooong and boring until one of them gets tired and HO's. :)
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I have 1 kill and 2 deaths for the month of January to date due to a very limited number of hours available to play Aces High. I pay $15....no more or less than anyone else who plays the game. Bummer that if this were my typical number of hours in playing the game I'd be restricted from certain rides due to a lack of perk point accumulation. Generally, the more experienced a player is the more available the monster-rides, and that's just ssa-backwards.
So what's the big deal if every single person in the arena flies an F4U-1C but you? No one is restricting you from flying what you want to fly.
("You" is non-specific to any person.)
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Originally posted by Steven
I have 1 kill and 2 deaths for the month of January to date due to a very limited number of hours available to play Aces High. I pay $15....no more or less than anyone else who plays the game. Bummer that if this were my typical number of hours in playing the game I'd be restricted from certain rides due to a lack of perk point accumulation. Generally, the more experienced a player is the more available the monster-rides, and that's just ssa-backwards.
So what's the big deal if every single person in the arena flies an F4U-1C but you? No one is restricting you from flying what you want to fly.
("You" is non-specific to any person.)
The big deal is it becomes mind numbingly boreing fighting the same aircraft over and over and over. Now, what do you normally do when you get bored with your latest toy? You put it down and forget about it for awhile right? What happens when you come back and find your still bored with it? You get rid of it. What happens when people become bored with Aces High?...same thing except-----HTC loses money, and that is bad bad bad juju.
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Originally posted by Vermillion
What a stinking dead horse. Please find another equine corpse to beat upon.
I would take the time to debate each of your points, but there is not need. All the evidence is in the usage/kills/death numbers, and those numbers say your arguement is bullpucky.
When the F4U-1C was unperked it was easily #1 in every category, by a very large margin.
Right now the La7 is only #3 or #4 in those categories, let alone leading the pack.
If you can't stand the La7, cancel your account, and go fly WWIIOL.
All these anti-La7 whiners are starting to out yell even the Luftwobbles. Are we seeing a new genre of whiners? The anti-red McCarthyismWobble ;)
I agree with Vermy. If you hate La-7s, then go out of your way to make life miserable for them. When I see a crowd, I kill Niks first, La7s second and Spits 3rd, err, granted I even get a kill lol. Everything else is gravy. The 3 I at least try to kill first are the most numerous and annoying planes I M H O...so simple solution.
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Real men fly 190A.
Real men kill la7s in 190A.
Perk the 190d9..its for babies.
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I actually think the current perk setup is fine. Think about this: many perked birds are challenging/difficult to fly effectively. If someone can't get up the perkies for 'em, they prolly wouldn't be able to do much with 'em anyway! The guy who is average with the La-7 would most likely be nothing more than a target in the corsairs. I'm not ashamed to say my current perks are in the single digits (been having a bad time lately :( ) and I have no business or real interest in flying perk birds right now. Also, if we don't have at least one or two easier birds, the people who don't do so well yet (me? nahhh... surely not me! lmao) will simply get frustrated and leave. Now, last time I checked, HTC is in this for profit, not just for fun. If you want improvements, they gotta pay for 'em. People quitting won't speed up improvements any. So, keep the perk setup the way it is, no complaints here.
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I don't think that any of the perked planes belong in the current MA for any reason.
lazs
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I always think that late war planes or any "later model" plane should be perked cheaply if it has an earlier war variant in the game.
La7.. perk it cheap, you have free la5. (la5 much more dangerous than la7 believe it or not).
F4u-C & F4u-4 perked, there's the -d and the -1
P38L : perk it cheaply when the -J is introduced
P-51D : cheap perk, there's the B model (which is even faster!)
P-47D25: perk it cheaply. There's the d-11 and the d-30 is a tad slower than the d25.
SpitIX: perk it cheaply. There's the V and seafire. (yah yah its a midwar plane, but its the latest variant of the spit we have)
205: perk it cheaply, there's 202 (well, if HT ever looks into the breda MG modeling.. dart gun gallore)
109g10 : perk it cheaply. There's f4, g2 and g6.
190d9 & ta152 : perk d9 cheap, 152 semi-cheap (about 10 perks). There's 3 earlier 190 variants.
Yak9U: perk it cheap, there's the 9t.
ad naseum.
perk it cheap = 8 perks MAX. C-hog its 8 perks, la7 about 6, 38L about 3, 51D about 3, 47d25 about 2 , spitIX about 2, 205 about 2, 109g10 about 6, 190d9 about 6, yak9u about 3.
And give 50 perks to each account at the start of each month IF said account has less than 100 perks. There would be no whining then about not having enuf perks.
Tumor: Were you here when the C-Hog was unperked? That was the only plane you saw for days on end. Everyone upping in the 4 cannon, quick turning, quick diving, loads of ammo ride because it killed with one snapshot, was THE only plane that could tear any ground target apart with 1 or 2 passes and was avaliable on CV. I was SURPRISED if I ever met a 109 or a any non-hog plane a WEEK. Its almost like now you see spits and la7's everywhere, but they cant kill with 1 ping from d800 (well, maybe spits can, but they need a to get a good burst in, they only have 2 cannons and not much ammo for them).
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I don't understand this view of "fighting the same plane again and again is boring".
I'm not fighting planes; I'm fighting pilots.
They come in all colours, even bloo.
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go and Z&B in a zeke vs spits and la7's then. its the pilot after all right? :D ;)
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Want to try B n Z'ing Levi's Spit V Tac? :)
It really is the pilot.
I'm not scared of any plane; I'll happily take on a 262 in a 202.
If it's Levi; I'd run from his 202 in my 262; and still not feel safe.
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You perk scheme is worth thinking about TAC. It takes very few perk costs to effect the usage of a plane.
If the Perk system had been in the game from the begining. It would have been very cool to introduce all planes in pairs.
Just like you detailed.
Have the Spit IXf and the identical looking exept for markings Spit IXhf.
The 109 G6 and the 109 G6 ASCM
The 190A8 and the 190 A8 with armour and 30mm
The Spit V and a 4 cannon cliped wing one...
The B17f and B17g or yb40...
the Lanc and a Grand slam version
The Pony D and and P51H
The Pony B and the prototype with 4 hispanos
The P47D5 and Lucky.....waste gates...mmmmm
M4a3(75) and M4a3(76)with gyro maybe
The perk system came along late in the game but your scheme would have been pretty cool.
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Originally posted by Yeager
Fortunately the LA-5(7) cockpit layouts are a horrible place to look out from and offer at least a partial handicap to the VVS dweeb.
Yeager
...and it has a very short clip. And burns fuel like crazy. And the ballistics of those funny Russian cannon just don't seem as good as Hispanos.
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Tac has an interesting Idea that mimics an RPS--and it might work well in an alternate arena to the MA. Howwever, for the free-for-all that the MA is that idea is less than desirable. The MA is about choices, not restrictions.
The perk system was added so planes like the Tempest and Me-262 could be added in the MA without completely destroying the game; in previous flightsims such superior aircraft were either left out of the planeset, not modeled at all, or simply neutered for gameplay. The perk system was NOT added to remove over half the planes in AH from normal use (and judging by statistics, perking a plane IS remiving it from normal use). It was NOT designed to give older players with hordes of time and accumulated points an even greater advantage. It was meant to add choices, not restrict the game further.
I still don't see the need to perk ANYTHING that is currently unperked. Nothing is that good. Nothing dominates the arena. Indeed, AH today probably has the most balanced plane usage of ANY flightsim, EVER.
J_A_B
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I guess I had embellished TACs idea a little but still...
But we dont have a spit ixhf..
nor a p51h
nor a 4 hispano spit vc
nor a 109g6ascm.
cheap perks for little bit better AC would real well I think.
If these kind of "little bit better" planes where in the game and were worth more points to kill perk points might accumulate more quickly.
I think its a great idea.
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I think the topic has strayed a bit, or people are seeing a bit more than was originally posted.
The orginal point is that the 7 is more competent in basically every flight regime than the F4U, and particularly all the ones which matter in the MA.
The cannon armed Hawg is perked, while the 7 isn't. Doesn't make much sense.
Someone said they wanted to see some variety. Well, I sure don't see much with the current setup. At any time, a good 1/3 of pilots are in either the N1K or the LA-7.
If HTC wants to use perks as some sorta kludge instead of a RPS in the MA, fine (though I'd rather see a RPS). But put some sense into the perk system.
D
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Originally posted by Tac
P-47D25: perk it cheaply. There's the d-11 and the d-30 is a tad slower than the d25.
No, actually D-25 is slowest jug (at the deck).
D-11 333/344
D-25 329/340
D-30 329/340 (I haven't test D-30 after WEP upgrade, but it sure is faster with wep than others)
But overall I like your idea of cheap perking. That wouldn't hurt anyone too much, would it? (Well, not in short term anyway :rolleyes: )
Jug drivers should have something to spend their perks for and until we get P-47N ( :p ), D-30 would be fine.
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Originally posted by Tjay
...and it has a very short clip. And burns fuel like crazy. And the ballistics of those funny Russian cannon just don't seem as good as Hispanos.
...and will kill you in a second if you pull just a LITTLE too hard at low level.
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You sure? I was convinced the d25 and d30 were the same machine in all respects except for the 30 having dive flaps and a boatload of ord options (and more drag because of the rails, should decrease top speed by a bit).
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Originally posted by Tac
You sure? I was convinced the d25 and d30 were the same machine in all respects except for the 30 having dive flaps and a boatload of ord options (and more drag because of the rails, should decrease top speed by a bit).
yep, the D30 after the its wep upgrade will now climb at better than 3200 FPS at sea level. It is alos the best of the P-47's in my opinion. The D11 is a tad bit faster than the D25 in AH...dunno why. The D11 after it got its weight fixed is now very sluggish. It does not turn or yak any better than the the other 2 jugs IMO. In that regard they all seem about the same. The D30 performs better in the vertical now with its improved WEP. It will hang on the prop much better now.
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"The orginal point is that the 7 is more competent in basically every flight regime than the F4U, and particularly all the ones which matter in the MA. "
Oh yeah?
Which plane can stay airborne longer?
Which plane has better guns?
Which plane has more ammo?
Which plane is available on carriers?
Which plane has decent performance over 10K?
Which plane is highly effective for JABO in addition to A2A?
The answer to all of the above, of course, if the F4U-1C. Just because you choose to ignore the 1C's advantages, doesn't mean it doesn't have any. Overall the 1C is a VASTLY better plane than the LA7 is.
J_A_B
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Tumor,
<<>>
For who? What's worse, not being able to fight what you want to fight or not be able to fly what you want to fly?
Actually though, I like your answer and it goes with something along the lines that I believe. Especially now that we will be seeing some earlier war aircraft (which are my favorite), I think those planes that come after them should have perks attached to them. This is so that there IS a variety of aircraft flying in the arena and so that you WILL see Spit 1's, Hurr 1's, and ME-109E's flying in the arena (along with P40s and Wildcats when those are introduced.) So if you truly want variety, we will have to start seeing some perks in the near future attached to some of the aircraft people fly regularly now and which are some people's favorites. And along the lines of Wotan's beliefs.... get a 20-kill streak in a Wildcat and you can one day fly your beloved LA7. :D
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Originally posted by J_A_B
"The orginal point is that the 7 is more competent in basically every flight regime than the F4U, and particularly all the ones which matter in the MA. "
Oh yeah?
Which plane can stay airborne longer?
Which plane has better guns?
Which plane has more ammo?
Which plane is available on carriers?
Which plane has decent performance over 10K?
Which plane is highly effective for JABO in addition to A2A?
The answer to all of the above, of course, if the F4U-1C. Just because you choose to ignore the 1C's advantages, doesn't mean it doesn't have any. Overall the 1C is a VASTLY better plane than the LA7 is.
J_A_B
"Vastly"? You're quite incorrect. We're talking about general MA usage here. So staying airborn longer and performance above 10,000 feet are both relatively moot points. The addition of 1 cannon and a larger ammo load is a bonus in the C, but honestly, if you can't get it done with 3 20's you're not gonna get it done with 4 even if you can shoot 'em longer. Do you seriously consider availability from a carrier as a valid reason to perk a plane? The 7 ISN'T effective at ground work? Without rockekts, of course the 7 can't take out the hardened targets that the C can. But it's perfectly useful for general field & GV work.
I don't have a problem with the C being perked, if that's how HTC wants to try and control the MA. But as has been said here repeatedly, the 7 does basically every aspect of typical MA play better than the C. It's quicker, faster, climbs better and turns better. Seems to me it should be perked too.
D
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Doberman, you show ignorance of the F4U-C's weaponry.
It has HISPANO cannons. The La7 has shvaks or that other VVS cannon... and both of the la7's cannon types have HORRIBLE ballistics, very short range and even worse refire rate. Not to mention the minute ammo load.
F4U-C has much higher refire rate, it can shoot up to d800 (sometimes d1.1 if you aim high and spray a bit) and kill with a single hit of its 4 cannons. Its generous ammo load helps a lot too.
La7's advantage is its monster engine, hi speed and e retention and for some reason, its a freaking tank to bring down, imo much harder than a p47.
The la7 is more SURVIVABLE in the MA, but its not even CLOSE to the effectiveness and versatility of the C-Hog.
And yes, the la7 should be cheaply perked too. i agree.
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I still don't understand how you can discount the 1C's strengths just because you choose not to use them.
BTW, the reason the 1C is perked isn't because of its performance, its because when it was un-perked it began to screw up the game with 1K-plus 1 ping spray N pray kills becomming the norm.
J_A_B
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J_A_B, we have Typhs with same weapon conf of 1C, same weapons range, same 1 ping/death capability. Add Spits, mossies and P38 to the hispano bag, none of them being perked.
In the case of the Typh, IMO, it is better performer than F4U, has similar jabo capability and has better range. ok, no carrier ops.
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Man as you ever tried to turnfight with the tiffie ?
That's a challenge :)
But it's not that difficult with a Chog
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Yep straffo, and it is a super-turner compared with my usual ride: 190.
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you are not (neither me :) ) supposed to fly her that way ;)
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Tiffies climb is also very poor, hi-alt performance non-existant and it's rate of roll horrendous compared to the F4U. It's inferior in every respect apart from deck top speed.
FW190 has enough advatages over the Tiffie to make any fight an interesting one, usually decided by pilot skill IMO.
Vladd
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Well, the P-38's single hispano is only effective up to d400 or so, ive never been able to hit anything with it at long range.. maybe not enough guns to put enough 20mm smackers to spray a target at long range.
The spit's 2 hispanos does allow it to spray a bit, some pilots even have it as their only way to get a kill.
Mossie's 4 hispanos are murderous, and the plane is fast. But its also big as heck and quite poor in vertical performance, and F4U will eat a mossie just as long as the hog dont HO it or pass by its nose. Extremely generous ammo load.
Tiffie dont have enough ammo to have the luxury of wasting it on sprays.