Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: Buzzbait on January 17, 2002, 02:23:44 PM

Title: Come play in the Snow: New Setup tommorrow
Post by: Buzzbait on January 17, 2002, 02:23:44 PM
S!

There will be a new setup in the CT tommorrow, should be ready to fly at 2pm EST.

It`s the `Cauldron of Fire` Sixth Army surrounded at Stalingrad, setup we wanted to have 2 weeks ago until the gremlins popped up...   :rolleyes:

It will use the revised Stalingrad Terrain.  This terrain has winter tiles and has never been used in the main arenas.  Wait to enter the arena to load it.   The version on the HTC `Downloads` page may not be the correct version.

This is the aircraft lineup:

Axis

German

109F4
109G2
109G6 (2 point perk)
190A5
190F
Ju88
C-47 (limited bases)

Italian

MC202

GV`s

MkIV
M8 (subbing for German armoured car)
M3 (subbing for German halftrack)
Ostwind


Soviet:

Yak9T
La5FN (1 point perk)
IL-2
B-26 (2 point perk)
C-47  (limited bases)

Lendlease

Hurricane IIC
Hurricane IID

GV`s

Mk IV (subbing for T-34)
M8  (subbing for Soviet light tank)
M3
M16

The situation would start with Stalingrad mostly in the hands of the Germans, but surrounded after the Soviet Winter Counteroffensive of November `42.

Each side will have defined objectives which they must capture. Victory will be determined by a CT Staff member every night at 12 midnight EST. If a side has achieved their victory conditions, then a victory will be declared and the Arena will be reset.

Base capture will most often require the use of M3`s.  There are outlying spawn points on most of the fields which allow quick movement to neighbouring fields and Vehicle bases.  C-47`s will be restricted in the fields they may fly from.  We are trying to simulate the fact most of the terrain capture in this scenario was by ground forces.

The German Objectives would be to break the ring encircling Stalingrad and drive the Soviets back. The Soviet objective would be to eliminate the pocket and drive West to take Rostov.

More details on the exact fields controlled, fields required to be captured for victory and aircraft basing in the `Message of the Day` popup when you log in.

We may leave this up for only 1 week depending on the availability of other terrain and setups.


                                               Cheers Buzzbait
Title: Re: Come play in the Snow: New Setup tommorrow
Post by: Oldman731 on January 17, 2002, 02:32:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Buzzbait
It`s the `Cauldron of Fire` Sixth Army surrounded at Stalingrad, setup we wanted to have 2 weeks ago until the gremlins popped up  


(Oldman's brows knit) (his beady eyes close)(suddenly, he remembers what he said the last time he heard this):

Diggit!

- oldman
Title: Come play in the Snow: New Setup tommorrow
Post by: K West on January 17, 2002, 02:32:54 PM
"Cheers"

Molodets!!

I'm looking forward to it.  If I can dump the diaper duty and get online more that is:)

 Westy
Title: Come play in the Snow: New Setup tommorrow
Post by: deSelys on January 17, 2002, 02:35:18 PM
Title: Come play in the Snow: New Setup tommorrow
Post by: Ripsnort on January 17, 2002, 02:45:00 PM
This is worthy of a Punt!
Title: Come play in the Snow: New Setup tommorrow
Post by: Raubvogel on January 17, 2002, 03:06:35 PM
Sounds good...but here's my question: Why is the G6 a perk? It performs worse in every way to the 190A5 and 109G2. And why is the La5 a 1 point perk and the G6 a 2 point perk? The La5 will kick the snot out of a 109G6 everytime.

Not trying to be an ass, just wondering what the logic was to it.

Looking forward to checking it out!
Title: Come play in the Snow: New Setup tommorrow
Post by: deSelys on January 17, 2002, 03:25:37 PM
La5 will kick the snot out of a G6 any time??? Really? Wow, You seem to know the G6 very well, Raub.

Although the G6 is my fav ride, I don't mind the (low) perk.

Edit: oops sorry I got jumpy on this one... :o
Title: Come play in the Snow: New Setup tommorrow
Post by: Wotan on January 17, 2002, 03:56:36 PM
the g6 is a fun plane but i would choose a g2 over it to fight la5s

remember we have an la-5fn and we have an early g6 while i have no opinion on whether they should be perked I certainly dont think an la5 should be cheaper then a the g6 we currently have..............
Title: Come play in the Snow: New Setup tommorrow
Post by: Wotan on January 17, 2002, 03:58:38 PM
also the 190f8 we have is a 1944 ac right?
Title: Come play in the Snow: New Setup tommorrow
Post by: Buzzbait on January 17, 2002, 04:04:42 PM
S!

The reason the G6 is a perk is simply history:

The G6 was introduced in late `42.  It didn`t begin to equip Staffels on the East Front until Spring `43.  So I could have disallowed it completely, but I`m allowing it but making it relatively rare.

In any case, most guys tell me the G2 is a better plane... ;)

I am actually beginning to have second thoughts on perking the La5FN.

Historically the La-5FN wasn`t introduced till summer/fall `43.  Before that the La-5 and La-5F were in service, beginning in late `42 at the time of Stalingrad.   Both were not as good performers as La-5FN.  So I am perking the La-5FN.  But now I`m wondering whether the balance is going to be in the Axis favour since the F4 and G2 will kick Hurri II and Yak 9T butt.

Your comments welcome...    You have until 12 midnight EST today... ;)
Title: Come play in the Snow: New Setup tommorrow
Post by: Buzzbait on January 17, 2002, 04:06:28 PM
S!

Rgr on the F8.  But in performance terms, the F8 isn`t a quantum jump over the early F models.

I can drop it if you prefer and just have the A5.
Title: Come play in the Snow: New Setup tommorrow
Post by: Raubvogel on January 17, 2002, 07:47:49 PM
The La5 certainly does need to be perked...or else that's all there will be. And at a cost of only 1 point, thats probably all there will be anyways....what we really need is a plain old La5 or a LaGG3...

Perk the G6, I don't care...would rather fly a G2 anyways.

The problem comparing the 2 is that the G6 we have is not from the same time period as the La5 we have.

Oh, and the Yak9T competes very well with the 109F and G2....
Title: Come play in the Snow: New Setup tommorrow
Post by: Kratzer on January 17, 2002, 08:06:00 PM
And can you make all the soviet planes twice as large?
Title: Come play in the Snow: New Setup tommorrow
Post by: Buzzbait on January 17, 2002, 08:32:04 PM
S! Kratzer

It`s called your ZOOM button...  ;)
Title: Come play in the Snow: New Setup tommorrow
Post by: Nifty on January 18, 2002, 09:25:25 AM
can you make the La5FN a decent plane above 10,000 ft?  thanks.  :p
Title: Come play in the Snow: New Setup tommorrow
Post by: Ripsnort on January 18, 2002, 09:39:42 AM
Actually nifty, the LA5 rocks at 16-20k alt.

LA5 (http://www.hitechcreations.com/models/la5fn.html)
Title: Come play in the Snow: New Setup tommorrow
Post by: K West on January 18, 2002, 09:54:57 AM
"Actually nifty, the LA5 rocks at 16-20k alt."

Yup.  Same with Yak.

The key, IMO,  is not to allow yourself to be B&Z'd to death by 109's and 190's perched at 20k plus.

 Westy
Title: Come play in the Snow: New Setup tommorrow
Post by: Wotan on January 18, 2002, 12:15:58 PM
lafn is not a lagg3 or la5 or a la5f and it was introduced later then the g6

to sub the la5fn for a la5 makes about as much sense as replacing beufighter with typhies.

I dont care what ya perk i'd fly a g2.

The la5fn was introduced later then the g6 it out performs a g6 to perk the g6 at a higher vaklue then a l5fn is wrong then to suggest leaving it unperked is way out there.


If the f8 g6 and la5fn werent there then dont include them.......

But to justify perking the g6 at 2 x the la5fn or to then indicate it may not be perked is a bit unreasonable.

I fly the 190f8 more then anyone I get killes in i'm 7to1 k/d this tour and lifetime am prob over 2.3 to 1 in it so i dont care either way.
Title: Come play in the Snow: New Setup tommorrow
Post by: Nifty on January 18, 2002, 12:58:06 PM
Thanks for proving my subtle point, Rip.  It's just darn near impossible to whine about Allied planes in this game!  :eek:  

joke people...  take it as a joke!  :D
Title: Come play in the Snow: New Setup tommorrow
Post by: Reschke on January 21, 2002, 06:12:19 PM
A squadron member posed an interesting question about the plane set on our message board. Well ok not really a question but rather a complaint. His quote was a little less subtle than what I will put here.

Why is the Yak-9T in the arena aside from "gameplay"? According to his source (not internet based) and a few sites I have seen in the last day or so the Yak-9T did not enter combat trials until the summer of 1943. This period is "based" on the winter/spring of 1942/43 right?

So here is the quote he (LJKVR in game ID and we know him as LJK_VonRay) has put on our board for it.

Quote
My information is from "Soviet Combat Aircraft of the Second World War" by Yefim Gordon and Dmitri Khazanov, Midland Publishing Limited. According to them, the Yak-9T was produced in Jan. 43, had armament testing in Feb. 43, flying tests in March 43. She was put into full production in March 43. At the end of March, 3 had been built, and 75 total in April.

"Operational combat trials were conducted on the central front from 5th June to the 6th August during the Battle of the Kursk 'bulge', using 34 Yak-9T's of the 16th Air Army. Half of the 110 enemy aircraft shot fell to Yak-9T's, combat losses of the Yak-9T totalled 12, a third of the losses suffered by Yak fighters."
Title: Come play in the Snow: New Setup tommorrow
Post by: Buzzbait on January 21, 2002, 08:25:58 PM
S!

You are absolutely right...  Even though the Setup is supposed to represent Feb. `43 to Mar. `43, it is a little early to include the 9T.

However we don`t have any Soviets planes from early `43 or `42, unless you count Hurri IIc`s and Spit V`s.  And I know people have had their fill of Spits.

The Yak 9T has very similar performance to the Yak 7 or the Yak 1B which were active in `42.  So I felt justified in including it.

I could have used the La-5FN instead to represent the La-5, but thought that would help the Soviets too much.  Looks like I should have given them that plane anyway since it seems the Germans are having their way....  ;)
Title: Come play in the Snow: New Setup tommorrow
Post by: Reschke on January 21, 2002, 08:53:53 PM
Buzz!

Thanks for comfirming my suspicions on it.


Just a little thought here and you might still catch FLAK for doing it this way. In the future if you have to substitute an aircraft (aside from the C-47 or armored vehicles of any type) a little sidebar might help ease our minds. I know HTC is busting their tails to get stuff handled with the "master plan" for this game so until we have every major aircraft and subtype in the game. That might help you guys so you don't end up feeling overwhelmed.
Title: Come play in the Snow: New Setup tommorrow
Post by: GRUNHERZ on January 21, 2002, 09:03:09 PM
Just remove the Bf109G6 and the LA5FN and the 190F, they dont belong here.
Title: Come play in the Snow: New Setup tommorrow
Post by: K West on January 22, 2002, 07:59:30 AM
lol.   I pity the soul who campaigns for an historical RPS here in AH.

 Westy
Title: Come play in the Snow: New Setup tommorrow
Post by: Kratzer on January 22, 2002, 10:38:52 AM
Just unperk the G6 so I can fly it, and lose lots and lots of them - doesn't sound like anyone else will.

It does seem very odd that it is cheaper to get the La5, which is the best fighter in there, IMO.
Title: Come play in the Snow: New Setup tommorrow
Post by: Buzzbait on January 22, 2002, 01:18:21 PM
S!

Personally I don`t think the La-5FN is the best plane.

The 109F4 will easily outturn it and climbs nearly as well, better at higher alts.

Similar for 109G2, although turn not quite as good as F4 still a little better than La5FN, and climb very close to La-5FN at low alts, better at higher.

Even the MC202 will outturn the La-5FN and can stay with it in vertical maneuvers for quite a while.

The 190A5 is not the best matchup for the La-5FN since the La-5FN does nearly everything the A5 does, plus turns and climbs a little better.
Title: Come play in the Snow: New Setup tommorrow
Post by: Raubvogel on January 22, 2002, 02:15:03 PM
the G2 turns better than a La5? hmmm

Get 2 newbies....put 1 in a G2, 1 in a La5....the one in the La5 will win most of those battles.
Title: Come play in the Snow: New Setup tommorrow
Post by: Hamish on January 23, 2002, 09:54:19 AM
You are all wrong, the Hurri is the best plane ;)