Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: AKcurly on April 14, 2001, 06:26:00 PM
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What is the perk concept supposed to bring to the game? A more balanced arena?
The d9 and la7 did far more to balance the arena than anything else (if balance means getting guys out of F4Us and N1ks.)
I had slightly over 2,000 perk points when perk planes made it to the arena; I have more than that now. Why? I rarely fly the perk planes!
I'm not bad-mouthing the ta-152 but it's pretty limited in abilities. The tempest is cool, but I still like other planes better. Even if the tempest were free, I still wouldn't fly it much.
I am not advocating perking F4U1Cs, N1Ks or G10s, but they are far deadlier than tempests.
Pyro, why not try this? I know you are opposed to a rolling plane set. Ok, kewl.
Why not roll the perks? Let each tour represent the entire WW2. All planes would be available the entire tour, but say the first 5 or 6 days, only 1939 airplanes are available free - everything else is perked at an extremely high price. The second 5 or 6 days, remove the perks from a few of the planes, and so on. During the last phase of the tour, all planes would be available with no perk charge.
AKcurly
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Good idea. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Camo
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Camouflage
XO, Lentolaivue 34
www.muodos.fi/LLv34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
Brewster into AH!
"The really good pilots use their superior judgement to keep them out of situations
where they might be required to demonstrate their superior skill."
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You know, I like this idea a lot. It might be another way to gather data on the impact of particular aircraft- sort of a "what is perkable" survey...
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Not to add to another Perk Thread, I agree. I do not see the Arado and TA-152 as threats at all. Honestly, its the Niks and F4s that are consistently bringing me down, no matter what I fly.
With discos, server bombs or resets, its more a *hazzard* to fly perk planes than to engage them in action (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I also think its unfair that those who pay, yet not many hours, can't fly the perked planes unless they accrue a lot of points. Im not the best of players and its taken me a *long* time to obtain the 200 or so I have.
So, Im all for making all the planes unperked. It would be nice to have players more involved in taking bases, shooting down fghters etc rather than shopping for perkies (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I think the great experiment of balance is over. I dont think we need to perk the aircraft. Check the stats, see what most are flying. There isnt any imbalance.
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Paul J. Busiere
Aces High Arena handle: BD5Pilot
http://bd5.checksix.net (http://bd5.checksix.net)
BD-5 "T" (TurboProp) 90% complete, first flight in 2001 (We hope!)
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The tempest would replace the chog as the most popular ride in the arena. Its just too fast to look over if perk points aren't associated with it. At least I can catch the occasional F4u.. I'd never catch a tempest.
AKDejaVu
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Great idea curly!
anRky
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Hey AKcurly, what is this about rolling plane sets?
Pyro, why not try this? I know you are opposed to a rolling plane set. Ok, kewl.
I also think perk points may not be the ideal method. Perhaps if rolling planes advanced as certain objectives were met which were performance driven rather than schedualed arbitrarily. What objectives? Well, organized objectives where the planes/vehicles don't come into the game until certain targets have been rendered by the correct use of the usable plane and weapons set. This could happen within an hour or within weeks depending upon whose doing all the cheat'n.
RASTER
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Just low perk the F4C/LA7/Niki, somehting like 10 perkies.
Easy to rebuild 10 perkies, but at leats u don't fly those at each mission you do (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I like the way the perk system is working out, and am not in favor of a rolling planeset, even in the way curly describes. I'm also not in favor of perking the Chog or the Niki or the...LA7???
SOB
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Perk everything that entered service after 1942.
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I'm with funked on this.
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>[Never mind]<
[This message has been edited by Hobodog (edited 04-15-2001).]
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IMO the only plane to be perked would be the Tempest, unperk it and yes it would replace the Chog as choice ride for stat mongers. The 152 well I havent been shot down by one up high yet, and to me it really isn't a threat down low where most of the action takes place. I am against perking planes for those that don't have the time to acrue perk points as to those that fly all the time. But the Tempest is the one plane I think should have a perk value. My .02 worth again.
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Sturm6 StaffelKapitän
JV44 Platzschutzstaffel
Airfield Defense Squadron
Campaigning for the rights of the ME-410.
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For some reason I see a bit of disdain for the Tempest, and the high kill ratio is dismissed as only good pilots flying it (which is a valid point) but I assure you an unperked Tempest would occur in FAR greater a % of total arena numbers than the CHog EVER reached.
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S!
I agree that Ta152 is not worth perking due to it's very limited use.I will not risk losing my perks for flying a Ta152 against a flying AA Battery Buff.At low down the Ta152 sucks.
Ar234 has no big impact yet.I rarely fly it due to the fear of disconnection more than enemy.
Tempest..tested and got disco.Not anymore.If Tempest would be no perkie,then the MA would be a h*ll for those flying mid war planes.C-Hog is a disease already,why make it worse?
About perking Dora.I see no reason.Most pilots do a few passes and run after losing advantage.If You get the Dora to a turn fight-->Kablooey!It is ded.
La7..hmmm...not really needed to be perked.U can kill it even with mid war plane.Fast at low alt,but sucks above 15k.
In short I would suggest having arenas for both PTO and ETO planes.Of course with appropriate style of map.Just my 2 cents...
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DB603
3.Lentue
Lentolaivue 34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34/)
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someting needs to be done as the ma stands its becoming stagnent!
an PAC and ETO arena would be cool (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
perks seem to be working IMHO as you rarely see tempests and ta152s.I still think 10 perks for f4c would be really fair and to show im not all against USAAF ill agree to perk dora too! say 5-10 perks?
i dont think dora deserves to be perked but to lessen f4cs everywhere id perk the dora.
would be great to see less f4cs and nikis but it seems if i say this im a whiner!!
well this last week ive been questioning whether i want to stay in AH.New planes promised just dont excite me much and im sick of the difference in bullet drop and dispersion between MG151 and hispanos.
If i play with f4c i can hit easily from huge distances and it seems arcadey.
Im sorry but AH is heading towards a furball game and its getting old.I DONT want to fly F4s and Nikis but every other quake head can and they can ruin yer day just by pointing at you and firing.wheres the fun in that?
just dont know what to do.Cant complain about this as its dismissed as whine but its driving me away from the game.This map is 10x worse for nikis and f4cs so im just hoping for a map change asap.
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Hazed
3./JG2 (http://members.home.net/winyah999/3jg2.htm)
[This message has been edited by hazed- (edited 04-15-2001).]
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That is the BEST idea I have heard thus far regarding what to do with perk planes and how to treat them. I hope HTC is reading this thread, it outta give this some thought.
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I'm with funked.
And the Ta-152 rules. One just have to have the guts to fly it like any other low level furball plane (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif). Ask Kirin, he's the ta152 low level furball all enemies on the ta eeek meister.
kirin has 98 kills and has been killed 13 times in the Ta 152H.
But it would be nice if some of the more popular late war monsters would be cheap perks
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Von Santa
Staffelkapitän 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"
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Very good idea AKcurly !!
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Yeah, I totally agree f4 guns and niks ufo flight model really take a toll on the fun quotient for people not flyin' them. Nik I dont mind much because their easily outrun but those chog guns are ridiculous...just point and spray...it's ludicrous. I will almost always avoid a ho and will do nose low barrel roll or similar nose low manuever at 1600 out to avoid and have been hit more than I care to admit by sprayin' chogs....it really gets old. It's rare I'm hit from 6 by one.....seems people flyin' 'em generally cant manuever into that position....wonder why? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) HO was very dangerous....there needs to be some penalty or disincentive for flying in that style, chog guns just encourage it to the detriment of everyone else and considering that there were so few of them operational and they really unbalance things by encouraging such a quake style of game play to the detriment of the guys who play this game for the acm I really dont understand why the things modeled in the first place. No question it needs to be perked. Call it whine if ya like but it makes the game less fun and more likely that the hardcore sim guys will look elsewhere when the time comes IMO.
CRASH
Originally posted by hazed-:
someting needs to be done as the ma stands its becoming stagnent!
an PAC and ETO arena would be cool (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
perks seem to be working IMHO as you rarely see tempests and ta152s.I still think 10 perks for f4c would be really fair and to show im not all against USAAF ill agree to perk dora too! say 5-10 perks?
i dont think dora deserves to be perked but to lessen f4cs everywhere id perk the dora.
would be great to see less f4cs and nikis but it seems if i say this im a whiner!!
well this last week ive been questioning whether i want to stay in AH.New planes promised just dont excite me much and im sick of the difference in bullet drop and dispersion between MG151 and hispanos.
If i play with f4c i can hit easily from huge distances and it seems arcadey.
Im sorry but AH is heading towards a furball game and its getting old.I DONT want to fly F4s and Nikis but every other quake head can and they can ruin yer day just by pointing at you and firing.wheres the fun in that?
just dont know what to do.Cant complain about this as its dismissed as whine but its driving me away from the game.This map is 10x worse for nikis and f4cs so im just hoping for a map change asap.
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Crash, Typhoon has same guns as Chog, except its a much faster plane. Spit has 2 of the same guns as Chog, and P38 has only 1, but still same gun. Chogs are no threat except if you are involved in a lower furball and they come from outta no where with energy...of course, anything is as deadly if the pilot is good...I do agree that the guns make snap shots easier, after all, thats why they put them on the C-hog, even though pilots preferred the reliability of the .50's...most agree that a snap shot of 20's did far more damage than the snap shot of .50's...so I guess your complaint is that these guns are too historical, no?
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interesting idea but will not fly...
newbies don't have perk points but they do have $$$'s (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Eagler
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Originally posted by Eagler:
interesting idea but will not fly...
newbies don't have perk points but they do have $$$'s (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Eagler
Well said.
I dont like the perk system, it tells people that do not have the time to play and earn perks that they cant have the other airplanes. I dont like that, I suggest let all the aircraft be available to all players.
Conversely, I do not care what era the airplanes are from...I know to many of you the historical part of this game is very important to you. For me, I like having anything from the World War II battlefield available to me. Pre-1939, 1944, etc whatever means nothing to me. I pick an airplane based on the role I need to do...club acks, kill panzers, bomb, etc. That's all. I would just like to see every player have every aircraft available to them, and not denied an aircraft due to less time to play Aces High and earn perkies.
.02 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Paul J. Busiere
Aces High Arena handle: BD5Pilot
http://bd5.checksix.net (http://bd5.checksix.net)
BD-5 "T" (TurboProp) 90% complete, first flight in 2001 (We hope!)
[This message has been edited by LePaul (edited 04-16-2001).]
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(http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/otn/other/jpshakehead.gif)
Yeah.. I really look forward to being able to take off in a F4F4 Wildcat to go find someone to kill and find out that every dweeb plane loving moron is circling the skies in Tempests cuz they are free.
Man that'd just kick so much ass, I tell you I don't know why I would want to play any other games!!! (http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/cwm/cwm/cwm13.gif)
-SW
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This new perk idea is very good IMO.
The actual perk sistem is poor, and this new idea can give new life to the MA.
We need to test that.
<S>
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Originally posted by LePaul:
Well said.
I would just like to see every player have every aircraft available to them, and not denied an aircraft due to less time to play Aces High and earn perkies.
As far as this argument goes, it carries about as much water as a dried up bag of tomatoes. Flown 9 hours and 26 minutes this tour and 13 hours and 9 minutes last tour and have accumulated over 200 fighter perk points in JUST A2A combat. You know why? Here's a lil' secret, now don't you go tellin' no one.... I flew the 205, 202, La5, 190A5 and P38. Ssshhhh! Don't tell guys that if they fly planes with higher ENY ratings they get more perk points... they might actually jump outta the Chogs and N1Ks and learn a lil' somein'.
(http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/cwm/cwm/cwm27.gif)
-SW
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its no secret... I hate the perk system. it's backwards or maybe sideways. in any case it's nonsensicle.... everyone pays the same to play but everyone has a different amount of time to play or even a different skill level. the perk system simply makes everything more lopsided with players who need perk planes the least flying em the most and those who would not be much of a threatr anyway never flying em.. the new perk rides would get a lot more use if they were simply free to all for the last day or two of the tour.
How will we introduce early rides?? reverse perk??? new guys stuck in P39's forever and being vulched by Bearcats and -4 Hogs?? It's a ded end system... a complex solution for a nonexistent problem as jeff cooper was known to say about double action conversions for 1911 colt 45 acp's.
lazs
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Yeah.. I really look forward to being able to take off in a F4F4 Wildcat to go find someone to kill and find out that every dweeb plane loving moron is circling the skies in Tempests cuz they are free.
And I really enjoy taking off in a Spit and finding every dweeb plane loving moron is flying planes so fast I don't have a hope of catching them, unless they're stupid enough to turn fight.
The gap between a Spit V, 202, Zero etc and a Dora is far bigger than the gap between a Dora and Tempest, yet the Dora and Spit V cost the same, while the Tempest is infinitely more expensive than either. Perking should apply to most planes with a sliding scale, not just single out one or two.
As to Tempests taking over the arena, I fly H2H quite often. (If I pay $30 a month I am restricted to a 1942 plane, for free I can fly a late war fighter like all the other countries). The Tempest does not dominate in H2H, in fact I rarely see them. Far more Hogs, Doras and Spits, but rarely a Tempest.
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the system is fine and works.
can believe somone would whine about perk planes, im mean how many times do you see a perk much less fight one.
perking late models<51,d9,etc etc) is a bad idea for one, new guys dont have any perks, how they going to fly em? Second, If forces many people to fly inferior early model toejam. I for one dont want to be stuck in a piece of junk fighting other pieces of junk. Leave that for Senerios.
As for those who complain that RL gets in the way of them flying perkies learn to fly a higher eny value aircraft and make the most out of yer sorties.
GdamnednikisChogwhinersnoperk gettingmotherfukrs.
LaVa
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That perk everything from year x is as old an idea as the whole perk stuff. But a very good one (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
"I for one dont want to be stuck in a piece of junk fighting other pieces of junk. Leave that for Senerios."
Huh, that is something i really can't understand...it's more like the earlier the plane (and weaker guns), the better the fite. Also, there isn't that many plane types that do not have many versions...earlier and later ones. People object flyin spit V but insist to fly spit IX? or 109 differen versions or La5 instead of La7?
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Great idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This would allow the "I-want-to-fly-any-plane-with-my-$30-guys" to keep on flying their planes, but most of all this would encourage the use of early war planes at least in the beginning of the tour.
I bet that many pilots want to fly the early war planes, but the intrest is killed by the niki-chog-spit9-hordes they have to face in them.
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Too historical? 200 ac, maybe 150 operational at any one time during the last 6 months of the war? Unreliability of 20mm not modeled. Penalty for using a very dangerous ho tactic not modeled. Not sure I'd agree with ya there rip (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I object to the fact that the ac takes advantage of every gaming the game area available. No penalty for ho. 100% reliable guns. Appears to pivot on a dime at 1500 out due to net lag and visual contraints using monitor. Realism drawbacks in damage modeling, ie. 1 20mm takes ur wing off. Takes advantage of net lag in HO. Fosters a never ending search for ho's by the guys who fly it to the detriment of the guys who refuse to succumb the the quakebird mentality, the very same guys I might add who are the most likely to remain paying customers when the next quake bird substitute comes out. I object to it because it reduces the fun of playing the game for the rest of us. It's the only plane I would drop out of the line up completely.
Don't get me wrong, I have no trouble killin' 'em, being that the guys that fly'em generally have picked up bad habits and let their acm skill deteriorate, but you get 1 or 2 in a running fite and there's always one that comes by ho sprayin' 20's all over the place and just catches a wing leading edge 'cause u couldnt roll out of the way fast enough. Don't get me wrong, you get caught in fast snapshot, you should take some damage, but it should almost never be fatal.
Too historical? Not even close IMO.
CRASH
Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Crash, Typhoon has same guns as Chog, except its a much faster plane. Spit has 2 of the same guns as Chog, and P38 has only 1, but still same gun. Chogs are no threat except if you are involved in a lower furball and they come from outta no where with energy...of course, anything is as deadly if the pilot is good...I do agree that the guns make snap shots easier, after all, thats why they put them on the C-hog, even though pilots preferred the reliability of the .50's...most agree that a snap shot of 20's did far more damage than the snap shot of .50's...so I guess your complaint is that these guns are too historical, no?
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What a clever way to cover up yet another Chog/N1K whine.....<yawn>
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Sling322
Not a Monitor!
Fat Drunk "Chute Shooting" Bastards
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Ya know, I totally agree with ya. Gets boring dont it? I didnt start this thread or any of the several other chog "whine" threads that are currently on the top of the board. I wonder why their so prevelant and persistant? Hmm...maybe, just maybe, I'm not the only one who thinks it's broke and needs fixing. Nah, that cant be it.
CRASH
Originally posted by sling322:
What a clever way to cover up yet another Chog/N1K whine.....<yawn>
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The perk system is a must as long as you can choose between all planes.
In general, the later the plane modell, the more perks it cost. Some extra perks for heavy armament like on the chog, tempest etc.
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What a clever way to cover up yet another Chog/N1K whine.....<yawn>
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Sling322
Great addition to this conversation. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/mad.gif)
I think it's a fantastic idea. Best way for HTC to get feedback on this is to have a vote. That way, everyone has a share. Like like Milo in Catch-22. We all have a share in this.
On the flip side, a lot of squads fly only particlar types of aircraft. My squad only flies the P-51D/B. If it was 1939, the P-51 wasn't even in existance as the first production flight wasn't until April 23, 1941.
What about P-47? It didn't start flying combat missions until April 43! Squads would have to spend perk points to fly their squad planes???
Maybe the key is that over time, with the additional of all planes, everyone will have a wide range of weapons for A2A combat, perk points will be a thing of the past.
Something to think about...
Vruth
412th
[This message has been edited by Vruth (edited 04-17-2001).]
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I have to admit upon comming to this sim that the idea of perk points for uber planes had me pretty excited.
I think in principle its got some very strong points, its just lacking direction.
One of the biggest strengths it offers is an RPG element. You actually give a toejam once youre in a ride that you have "earned" GAWD! How cool is that?!
Whats the tempest cost? 70 points, whats wrong with picking some of the other uber planes, the dora, the CHOG, the nik, and making them 10-15 points?
Anyway, good points by all. Glad to be finally flyin this.
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Originally posted by Vruth:
Great addition to this conversation. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/mad.gif)
[This message has been edited by Vruth (edited 04-17-2001).]
Yeah it was, wasn't it? Almost as relevant to the perk plane discussion as the drivel that was posted right above my original post. Now tell me, exactly what did CRASH's post have to do with the topic at hand?