Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Tjay on January 19, 2002, 01:48:23 PM
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I suggest that the perk system works the wrong way. The best pilots get the best planes and thus become invincible. It's when you are starting that you need the best plane.
I suggest that as a player's skill improves and his/her fighter K/D ratio increases, the best planes become progressively UNAVAILABLE. And similarly, the reverse. Then peeps like me would know that if we saw a 202 coming for us it had to be Fariz or Whels or someone like that - and use our Tiffie to run like hell :D
Now you might say this would remove the incentive to improve. But that could be addressed by a change to the scoring system (perhaps via a big enhancement of the ENY factors) so that the real aces - those who can rack up kills even when flying a relatively poor plane - would still come out on top.
Comments? :rolleyes:
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Take from people that achieved something through hard work and skill, and give to those who didn't and don't.
I bet your a Democrat, lol.
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Originally posted by Creamo
Take from people that achieved something through hard work and skill, and give to those who didn't and don't.
I bet your a Democrat, lol.
More a rabid communist, really. But then your modern communist is a bit right wing for me. ;)
I'm sure lots of people will support your point. But didn't someone quite famous say (roughly): 'Unto those who have not, much will be given, and from those that have, it shall be taken away.' :rolleyes:
This system, given a new scoring system, would still result in the best pilots coming out on top, 'cos a kill in a Tempest or 262 wouldn't count for much, whereas downing an La7 in a Hurricane (for example) would get you bags of points.
Don't worry, I know it won't happen.
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The current system is not fair and favors better/more experienced pilots.
I think that planes that are now perked should be available to anyone, anytime, for free. But, they should be available only at 2nd line bases, so that whoever wants to fly them must pay for them by flying an extra 25+ miles to the fight. Perhaps the 262 should only be available 2 bases behind the front.
eskimo
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Eskimo, that sounds pretty good system! That should be taken account when searching different ways to improve MA.
How about early war planes nearest field, mid war planes 2nd nearest and late war planes 3rd nearest field to nme lines?
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I'd have to agree with Creamo here. Also didn't they WANT the best pilots who proved their flying skills in the BEST airplane?
I'm sure the cutting edge planes did not go to the trainees.
What Should happen is when you open an account you should be given a base number of free perk points to start from, and YOU choose your way of Using or losing them.
NUTTZ
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wow a system that favors pilots with talent and experience. so corrupt. i think the nba should adjust its rules so i can compete with michael jordan. i wanna be good at basketball too. since i suck he should have to wear 200 lbs of metal when he plays to take the "air" out of him.
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I always seem to see the top pilots in what I always see them in
109g6s, hellcats, spit vs, P38s, P51s, P47s
Is there some perception out there that the top pilots live in perk planes...I think that is mistaken.
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I gunna agree with creamo on this one (cant beleive i said that).
The current system attempts to limit the number of arena-unbalancing planes by only allowing a select few flying it. It is trying to balance the plane-set.
Your proposal is trying to balance the player's skill levels by giving better planes to those who arent as skilled as some. But skill level can be balanced by practice and self-improvement, balancing planes is not as easy.
Both systems are trying to even different aspects of game play out.
Consider this. If your system was implemented, then, you would have to fall below some sort of skill level (not sure how that would be determined) in order to be able to fly a perk plane. So tell me again why people should even bother to try improve their abilities??? what incentive do they have? Im sorry, but all this would promote is low skill level arena. Im against that...
Now consider whats in place. We can all get perk planes if we try hard enough and improve our skills to a level where we can go up get 3-4 kills and LAND the sortie to get the perks. 70 points aint that much if your determined. Its an incentive to get better, and incentive to improve pilot skill (for all).
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it doesn't favor any one
its simple fly plane with a hi eny value and kill planes with a lo eny value.
Gettin kills aint hard in a packed arena...........
This has been whined to death
No one guarranteed you a right to fly perk planes.
They are perked to keep them rare. It works
If you care about flying perk planes do what is necessary to earn the most perks.
Get out of the la7 spits niki and p51s.
If ya dont care about perk planes then it shouldn't matter.
Time online and experience are only a small part of perks.
Get in a 205 head to the nearest furball pick out a niki and kill it. Repeat as necessary and your operks will shoot through the roof.
I have gotten perk runs in 205 and g2 numerous times between 40 and 50. quite regularly in the 20s and on average about 12 a sortie.
la7 eny value 15
p51 eny value 18
niki eny value 10
spit ix eny value 13
These are the planes you wanna kill
205 eny value 40
205 kills 1 niki 40/10=4.00 perks even if ya die right afterward.
land it multiply by 1.25 then you get 5 perks fer 1 kill
kill 3 nikis 12 perks even if ya die
land it get 15 perks......
Thats how it works it aint hard quit whining
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Making late-war planes available only at remote bases would also balance the plane-set. No one would be favored.
Yes, in RL the more experienced pilots would get the better planes. But this is not real-life, it is a game. As customers, we are all equal.
I am mostly concerned about retaining newbies. I fear that many newbies do not stick around very long. The new folks need to feel that the game is fair. Then they will stick around and we can all gang-bang them. :)
Personally I would rather fly an obsolete plane in an arena with a bunch newbies flying late-war-hot-rods than face an arena of old-timers, with everyone flying uber-planes.
eskimo
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takes me about 3 days to fly a tempest if i want to. its not hard
leave the perk system as it is
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So why penalize the vets who have mastered the game and been here since day one?
You wanna succeed, EARN IT!
Like i said giving new players a base of perk points for their choosing would be ok, but to penilize people who been playing and paying, and earning their perkies is just not the way to go IMO.
NUTTZ
Originally posted by eskimo2
Making late-war planes available only at remote bases would also balance the plane-set. No one would be favored.
Yes, in RL the more experienced pilots would get the better planes. But this is not real-life, it is a game. As customers, we are all equal.
I am mostly concerned about retaining newbies. I fear that many newbies do not stick around very long. The new folks need to feel that the game is fair. Then they will stick around and we can all gang-bang them. :)
Personally I would rather fly an obsolete plane in an arena with a bunch newbies flying late-war-hot-rods than face an arena of old-timers, with everyone flying uber-planes.
eskimo
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Nuttz;
I don't see how making late-war planes available only at remote bases would penalize vets...
The cost would be the same for all: fly another 25 miles.
"You wanna succeed, EARN IT! "
I have over 5000 fighter perk points... I earned em, so what?
I still would rather fly the 109F-4, 109G-2 and the A6M over perk rides.
eskimo
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i knew this was gonna be a dud.
i was even more assured that it was a dud when i realized that the author was not only a self proclaimed left winger, but one that's infected with ebonics (see the word "peep" in original post) as well.
what's our public education system giving us here?! :D
The Tuckster
"The first time I ever saw a jet, I shot it down."
Col. Chuck Yeager, USAAF
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Originally posted by Tjay
I suggest that as a player's skill improves and his/her fighter K/D ratio increases, the best planes become progressively UNAVAILABLE. And similarly, the reverse.
Comments? :rolleyes:
So to paraphrase you are saying:
From each according to his ability, too each according to his need
Where have I heard that before...hmmmm
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Originally posted by Wotan
This has been whined to death
quit whining
I guess this is directed at me but as you haven't bothered to use quotes, I'm not sure. You are obviously a very senior member of the Whinestapo. I do beg your pardon for daring to post something with which your organisation disagrees.
However, please you could explain how an obviously lighthearted suggestion to stimulate a debate can be a whine. If you bothered to read the original post properly you would see that I am not COMPLAINING - but merely suggesting a possible alternative.
I ask only so that I may avoid offending you ever again.
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Originally posted by Spatula
I gunna agree with creamo on this one (cant beleive i said that).
The current system attempts to limit the number of arena-unbalancing planes by only allowing a select few flying it. It is trying to balance the plane-set.
Your proposal is trying to balance the player's skill levels by giving better planes to those who arent as skilled as some.
Agreed. This is called a handicapping system and is used in horse racing and Nascar racing to name but two to ensure close competition.
[/QUOTE] Consider this. If your system was implemented, then, you would have to fall below some sort of skill level (not sure how that would be determined) in order to be able to fly a perk plane. So tell me again why people should even bother to try improve their abilities??? what incentive do they have? Im sorry, but all this would promote is low skill level arena. Im against that...[/B] [/QUOTE]
That is certainly a drawback. Which is why it would be essential to revise the scoring system to reflect the skill levels of the best people. The incentive remains virtually the same: to be the best and be recognised as the best. You suggest that the only incentive at present is to win perk points so that you can fly superior aircraft which enable you to score more perk points so that you can..... I wonder if that's true.
Now consider whats in place. We can all get perk planes if we try hard enough and improve our skills to a level where we can go up get 3-4 kills and LAND the sortie to get the perks. [/B]
Err, respectfully no. Some people will never be aces however hard they try because they do not possess the natural ability of others. IMHO, the real top guys are naturals. They don't need to train much and certainly can't teach (usually) because they can't empathsize with those who find it difficult. But that's another subject.
And I wish I could work out how to do split quotes.:mad:
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The idiotic perk system is a stop gap "fix" that is unworkable. It guarentees that early war planes will never have a place in the MA and it makes only the very best of the non perk rides viable for the average player.
The only "good" thing about the idiotic perk system is that it sigmatizes the cowardly wussies who would fly an uber ride in an otherwise fair arena. It makes them a target and.... rightly so, a figure of ridicule.
An "area" arena is the only solution that I can see working. Early, mid and late war "areas" all in the same map. All inaccesable to each other but.... A player could take off and fight in any "area" simply by choosing one of it's fields.
lazs
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Originally posted by Tuck
i knew this was gonna be a dud.
i was even more assured that it was a dud when i realized that the author was not only a self proclaimed left winger, but one that's infected with ebonics (see the word "peep" in original post) as well.
what's our public education system giving us here?! :D
The Tuckster
Ebonics. Wow - I had to go and look that up. Sadly, it doesn't appear in my copy of the Collins English Dictionary. :D
The word peep does, however. The verb means to utter a short shrill noise. I was taking liberties by using the word to designate people who do so. Aplogies. The noun is the short shrill noise itself, of course. :p
The public education system is not responsible. I was educated privately. A long time ago. ;)
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Thanks to all (or nearly all) those who replied. Like I said in my second post: 'Don't worry, I know it won't happen.' I didn't really expect as much support as I got. :)
But I still believe a handicap system MIGHT address SOME of the shortcomings of the existing method, WITH THE PROVISO that the top men still came out on top and could be seen to do so.
It's a wrap. Unless someone knows different...
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UGH! Thats a TERRIBLE idea.
You would see 95% ppl flying me262s.
You should have to work hard to get to fly something like a 262, why should some punk bellybutton newbie who doesnt bother to even read up on how to fly the sim and doesnt even try it offline first get to fly a 262.
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Originally posted by jpeg
UGH! Thats a TERRIBLE idea.
You would see 95% ppl flying me262s.
You should have to work hard to get to fly something like a 262, why should some punk bellybutton newbie who doesn't bother to even read up on how to fly the sim and doesnt even try it offline first get to fly a 262.
No you WOULD NOT. Firstly because 'punk bellybutton newbies' woudn't be able to fly it properly and even they would soon work that out and move to something more newbie friendly - like a Spit 9. Secondly, because 'non punk bellybutton ' newbies who became proficient (the majority?) would soon score enough points to be denied the chance of flying it.
Your second point makes more sense, IMHO. If the incentive for players to work hard to increase their skill levels is the availability of planes which make that skill even more devastating (and the majority seem to agree that it is), then the handicap system is a non starter. I was envisioning a setup where the elite were acknowledged to be so good that they were not allowed to fly the very best planes - and would be proud of it. I accept that not many people share the idea. C'est la vie. Pas problem.
:cool:
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Youn newbies will never get any perks flying your soooopid Spits, Nikis and LA7s...... :p
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no body cares if you never get to fly perk planes.
if you wanna fly umm do what is necessary to earn the points.
and its a whine.........
Since the perk system came to ah every week some niki la7 p51 spit pilot comes to the board to cry about how unfair the perk system is.
Time online and experience do not equate to perk points.
Killing lo eny value planes with hi hi eny value planes does.
Theres no perks earned for whining.........
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Since I like flying the occasional me262 sortie, my goal in this system would be to fly poorly and "achieve" a bad k/d ratio. Heck, fastest way would be to just repeatedly groundloop f4s on take-off :).
It's not bad to toss new ideas to the community, but there's no way that system could work, sorry.
I hope they keep everything exactly as is, my k/d is something like 1.5-1.6 (not super great) and I can get a temp in 3 days or so, maybe faster.
Favorite part about it is I get a reward for flying the tougher planes, as it should be :).
Elysian/cmorris
P.S. Dunno how many others do this, but I fly perks pretty much like any other sortie. Flying around at 600+ mph cherry-picking in a 262 isn't that much fun (for me). Better to have fun, get some kills in a unique plane, and let someone have a chance at shooting ya down :).
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Originally posted by Tjay
No you WOULD NOT. Firstly because 'punk bellybutton newbies' woudn't be able to fly it properly and even they would soon work that out and move to something more newbie friendly - like a Spit 9. Secondly, because 'non punk bellybutton ' newbies who became proficient (the majority?) would soon score enough points to be denied the chance of flying it.
Hmmm, not sure if i agree with this sentiment. you dont have to know too much about flying a 262 properly to be untouchable in it. the thing climbs like a scalded cat at 300 MPH and is easily 100 MPH faster than anything else. So, they may not know all the ACM moves, little 262 tricks of the trade and/or have crap SA, but it dont matter much in a 262. Your second point is laughable, sorry, but why fly a spit 9 when ya got a 262?
Your last sentence brings me back to my original point, why should you bother to improve if the system will kick you out of your uber-262 (which you get for free, time and time again)??? - if you answer to be better ranked or more points, then that is not really a measure of skill, and no-one even cares about them.
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Originally posted by Wotan
and its a whine.........
Theres no perks earned for whining.........
Sorry Herr Oberleutnant, but just because you say its a whine DOES NOT MAKE IT ONE. I suggest you get a dictionary and look up the word. To suggest something different is not necessarily a complaint. Look up suggestion while you are there. On second thoughts, looking at your spelling and punctuation - forget it.
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Originally posted by Spatula
Your last sentence brings me back to my original point, why should you bother to improve if the system will kick you out of your uber-262 (which you get for free, time and time again)??? - if you answer to be better ranked or more points, then that is not really a measure of skill, and no-one even cares about them.
Thanks for your input Spatula. :)
Final post.
At the risk of defending my original suggestion to the death - which I sincerely don't want to do - surely moving up the rankings and amassing points while having the plane set available to you increasingly limited, WOULD BE a measure of skill. Personally, I think it would be more of a measure than the present system.
If its true that no one cares about points and rankings then the present system is obviously better.
I accept 100% the majority opinion that a handicap system would be most unpopular. And I can live with the existing perk system quite happily. I just wish I could remember to check my perk points and take up a Tempest instead of a Typhoon some times.:rolleyes:
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A Pilot without perks has not proved to be worthy, to fly these precious planes.
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