Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Hangtime on January 19, 2002, 11:03:29 PM
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seems like it's turned into a frekin monkey pack circle jerk as of late.
example.. put up a mission, 121 bish on. got 15 in the mission, 8 typhies, 5 mossies and a pair of goons. Target was a field that was not under a 5 hour seige.. but the route to the target was close to that field..
mission went well.. aside from 5 of typhies augering into the acks they were supposed to kill on their first pass and the goons that decided to go wandering off to that other field under seige instead of flying the flight plan. the goon drivers never aknowledged hails..
the mossies did well. slapped down the city in less than 2 minutes, but sadly; they were overwhelmed by flacks upping from the VH those auggered typhies were supposed to get..
result.. a city dead, all acks down but VH up.. still; the goons would have nailed it... but they went someplace else, and failed there too.
Everytime i checked the map, there was about 90 bish in one area, all gang monkeying a field that shoulda been down hours before,.. jeezus; it's like kiddie paradise in the MA.. this is not the esception anymore in the MA.. it's the rule. Every night. Every weekend. Every time I log on.
is there a group in here, a country; a squad that understands the mission planner, knows how to use it, does assigned tasks, obtains objectives? or is this whole damn sim now a big farging circle jerk monkey butt grabbing gangbang?
i used ta like this sim; enjoyed it immensely.. i'm sittin here askin myself, what did I USED to like about AH, and what don't i like about it now. Whelp, I used to like the combined squad raids we used to do most everynight in the ma.. one outfit handling buffing and goons, another on jabo; a third on CAP, all of 'em communicating, coordinating, advancing.. I like bein able to up with a batch of bish, and know I'd get a six call, or support on a task.. to give it and recieve it...
But not anymore. Now it's just a buncha lil kids playing at FA. They do the strat thing like old people screw... slow, sloppy, no sense of conviction or direction..
To top it off, now that the place is filled with 'customers' ( i use that in the most negative sense) theres significant server probs, the alt arena's such as the CT or DA are messed up with the the plane selection or just plain unpopulated, the TA is filled with 8 year olds checkin out all the kewl cusswords.. andf the MA is packed to extremis with stuttering servers and a slide show FPS.
*sigh*
I'm thinkin about yankin the plugs.. almost 3 years here, I've had a great ride, enjoyed flying this sim, enjoyed the fights, the scenarios, the MA.. but nowadays, all I'm catchin is aggravation. A good 1v1 is impossible to find in the MA, ain't been that kinda place for a LOOOOONG time now, and I guess thats a good thing. But when I did wanna fly a good 1v1 against a sharp stick, we went to the DA and found after 20 minutes of trying we couldn't even up our planes from a sea-level field. Went to the TA finally; and had ta fly 'ezmode' planes with forever fuel and bogus ammo loads while listening to the kiddie porn show... and .squelch wouldn't even work.
Hopped into the CT.. found 11 ruskies monkey banging 3 LW. The LW was needless to say in need of help, a port about ta fall... upped from the VH inna flack track only to be spit into 4 feet of water inna PT boat berth. So much fer the CT.
*sigh*
Hey look.. thanks fer listenin to my gripes, putting up with my rants... but i think it's time I wandered off for awile, I'm sure I can find something a lil more entertaining to do with my time than this monkey butt furball circle jerk..... As you can see, I'm fresh outta consructive input for AH at present, love the place; but can't stand what it's becomming.
All, my most excellent friends and adversarys... I'll keep my account for now, I frankly feel I have no gripe with payin 15 bucks a month to keep a toe in now and then, fly a snapshot or a scenario, and who knows; maybe things will improve again.
Wish ya all the besta luck... and check six. Frequently. ;)
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Sounds like poor Leadership Hang :D
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MA is the kiddie pool. Don't waste your time there. If you are looking for anything beyond daisy chain luffberry furballs you are not going to find it there.
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Did your mission have waypoints?
Man, I hate it when they don't put in waypoints.
It saves me the trouble of questions such as, "Where are we launching from and where are we going?"
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Was there ever a time when mindless arcade furballing wasn't the norm?
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I feel your pain Hang. Seems the days of big, organized missions in the MA are long lost. I can't even remember when I quit using it.... probably around the time TWC disbanded.
Maybe the biggest problem with the mission planner is the lack of knowledge about it these days. All us old timers were here when it was introduced and couldna wait to play with it. Several folks became renowned for thier missions and they were always packed. You, Zigrat, Ripsnort, and the old TWC missions come to mind here (and the TWC ones were half zig half me anyway). Maybe dragging up those old posts in the training board to educate the young'uns would help... then again.. maybe not, if they just want to furball.
Gotta disagree on the 1v1 in the MA though. I've found several good 1v1's in the past few days. Always on the fringe of a furball, and either me or the bandit pulling every trick we know before running for the friendlies in the furball because we lost the advantage.
Sandman,
READ the mission you are thinking about joining. Each flight shown in the box tells you the field and time of departure for that flight. There are also boxes underneath the list that let you scroll through the loadouts for the selected flight.
Also when you join a mission in the planner it doesn't matter what field you're at, you will automatically be put in the aircraft of the flight you've chosen and placed on the correct runway at the correct field at departure time.
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Originally posted by CavemanJ
Sandman,
READ the mission you are thinking about joining. Each flight shown in the box tells you the field and time of departure for that flight. There are also boxes underneath the list that let you scroll through the loadouts for the selected flight.
Also when you join a mission in the planner it doesn't matter what field you're at, you will automatically be put in the aircraft of the flight you've chosen and placed on the correct runway at the correct field at departure time.
Brainfarted there... the launch field is easy to find. Quite often, the target field info is left out. Granted, sometimes it might be in the title.
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Aye, sometimes ya gotta guess at the target field. I remember trips where TWC started a mission going after 1 field. We'd capture the target, land there, rearm, and take off for the next target w/o building a new mission in the planner.
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rgr than Sandman. waypoints. alts. typed intsructions. assigned flight leads. targets. Whole ball of wax. Adequite fuel, good ords.
look.. i'm more than aware that in this new enviornment.. the one where there the ma population is 70% or better newbies.. that comms will be a prob.. but it's more than that.
i've launched a few missions over the years.. had some good runs, some bad ones. and it wasn't 'this' mission that annoyed me.. in fact i wasn't so musch annoyed as I was dissapointed. Again. I just used the above mission as an example.
The guys that did the job were let down by the ones that didn't.. I can't fly their planes, sit in their cockpits. squeeze their triggers. I CAN assign targets, establish routes, select A/C and loadouts... but when half the mission abandons the other half they don't remember THEM.. but they do remember me.. "yet another failed mission from the hangtard guy; and hey, wtf, I can do better myself".
I'd rather not annoy myself with this kiddie MA show anymore... and I sure don't wanna let guys down that sign on to do a mission, AND ALL THAT IMPLIES only to be dissapointed routinely. Nobody wants to do one way trips into a meat grinder. I plan missions so the participants can and should succeed.. not get 7 quality sticks killed by 6 of their own 'wingmen' with no gain, no net positive result because those 6 twits could not accomplish a simple rudemtary assigned task. :(
If the experience was a fluke, hey; that's the MA.. missions go sour. But this was no 'fluke'.. no fog of war issue. It's the new MA.
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Originally posted by CavemanJ
Aye, sometimes ya gotta guess at the target field. I remember trips where TWC started a mission going after 1 field. We'd capture the target, land there, rearm, and take off for the next target w/o building a new mission in the planner.
Yep... been there. Done that. :)
BTW... Saw your sig... I'm a twin. It's a wonderful thing. :)
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Geez Hang...you whining? :D Better hope Creamo doesnt see this post. :)
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Hang in there Hang, your prolly right, sounds like you need a break, but dont give up the ship yet. I too have been frustrated with the MA, and cant fly in the CT cause of the connect problems right now. It was frustrating to see just the other day some 50-60 knights fighting rooks over a44 in mindanao terrain, while bishops clobbered the other 4 of us defending the rest of our fields against 30-40 bishops, whose attacks seemed pretty well planned out. They simply rolled us over. Alot of the newer folks may not yet understand the strategic value of the game as yet, and most of the vets are flying in the CT nowadays. It might take awhile, but I think these guys will realize the better part of the strat system available in the future. We need guys like you, to remind us every once in awhile.
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Take your cat in the back yard and shoot at it with a bb gun some. You'd be suprised how hard of a target they can become after you fire the first shot!
After that, make time to log into the arena after 11pm. I'll be there, Cent, maybe Creamo after a while, and sometimes even Fatty and Mason are up past their bedtimes. The arena isn't so packed then, and Fariz is usually on...that Knuckles guy too. Could get some good missions going, but probably not multi squad types.
Maybe if those pansy AssAssIns moved over to Bishland and the SBMs came back home we could lay wasted to the rest of the sissies flying around! ;)
SOB
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Hangtime....I'm convinced that in AH, it's just about impossible to coordinate moves without use of RogerWilco. The guys who didn't do their job were new or inexperienced, and may not have understood what to do.
I agree, the MA is very different now, and imo much more difficult to play. Let's face it mate, it just ain't easy to get an entire group of die-hard, battle hardened, alpha males to do what you want 'em to...LOL....over a computer anyway, hehe.
I think guys like you, Zigrat, Ripsnort, and many others, have moved to a new plateau, and for all practical purposes, have mastered this game...particularly when it comes to the mission planning aspect. I have great respect for anyone who can plan a mission on the planner.
Well anyway, I pretty much agree with you Hangtime, even though I'm a Rook. I've been playing for about a year or so, and I've seen the change. But I will say one thing, this game is good for stress relief. NIHI ILEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM!!! {sp} Don't let the bastards get you down.:)
Les
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Hangtime,
Your problem is that your still Bish!
Switch to Knight and all your problems will go away.
Knights never furball or lose focus. Every single Knight participates in missions and is 100% competent. We are also excellent comunicaters. :rolleyes:
eskimo
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Late night IS were it's at. Not too into the 375 player mayhem myself either, but don't mind it much.
I find it hard to believe the best terrains and gameplay features are in the CT and noone plays there.
Someone needs to declare "CT Week" for any of the old players where you MUST fly there. That would do it. The numbers would come, people would stay, the new guys would have their MA.
Or HiTech releases 2 new planes or game features ONLY AVAILABLE inthe CT Arena for a month. That would bring in alot too.
Anyways, Hang, you sound like a little squeak, but since the Packers play tomarrow, I'm just to fired up to be negative on anyone.
Plus, I understand how AH has changed.
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i feel the same way that hang does. i can remember when i couldnt imagine life without AH...but now...i could see a very happy life without it. just gettin a little burned out. log into the MA and see the same things day in and day out. its one big giant nasty furball every where ya go.
thats why i do like the Fat Drunk BasTARDS do and log in late at night. shoot them panzy's down a few times and go to bed with satisfaction!:D
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Personally I'd like to see more missions that don't involve mass attacks on a base. There are just too many people now to keep track of everyone. I've often thought of putting a mission up for 10 or so players for a regular fighter sweep or base defence mission but doubt that there would be interest in those types of missions. People seem keen on the "land grab" concept, where a mission is only a success if a base swaps hands.
Hangtime, maybe posting missions like this would rebuild some of your faith in the game. Being a vet in the game would allow you to get something like this to succeed, where being a newbie like myself wouldn't. I hate being sacrificed to the ack gods, and I'm sure there are several out there like me that feel the same way.
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S! Hangtime
I think you should analyse what exactly it is you are looking for, and what the problems are that you wish to eliminate in the MA before dismissing the CT as 'just the CT'.
If you do that, then you may realize that we in the CT, in our stumbling slow footed way, are trying to do exactly what you are asking for.
Now we finally have a map designed for the CT, of course we are having connect problems. Not our doing, but obvlously keeping people away.
And there are a few problems with the map, not enough to affect play seriously but the bugs are getting ironed out.
But if you step back, get some perspective and really think about it, you would realize, your concerns are our concerns and we are working for people like you.
An alternative doesn't happen overnight. It take a lot of hard work and planning, with people committing their free time to work with HTC and canvass the players for their opinions. That is what the terrain makers, scenario designers and setup Cm's have to do.
But if all their work is ignored, and nobody flys in the CT Arena, then it is going to fail, no matter what.
The only people who are going to make the CT and a new style of combat flying in AH a success are the players themselves.
Do you want things to change? Then get involved. Or show your support by flying there. Dismissing it without really thinking about what you are saying isn't very constructive.
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Hang,
I empathize with you. I am burned out. I log in and just stare at the map while in the tower. Takes 10-15 min to get up the gumption to fly.
I think there is a flaw in the strat and its impact on the whole experience. I can't put my finger on it, but its constantly gnawing at me. I guess I would like something a little more structured. Maybe something along the lines of specific aircraft or bases or squads having some sort of predefined mission. Or a command staff directing the war. Wouldn't work in the MA, everyone would squeak. But the CT has the same problems. Guess I would like to be apart of something, not just a solo pilot jerking off.
bummer.....
F.
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same here furious I find myself staring the map. I quit the "mission planner" a while back.
I dunno what it is...... too many people on small maps? Is it the level of new folks that have tripled the main numbers drowning out the voices of reason and experience?
Couple that with the laggy nature of the main helps feed my burnout.
My connect to the ct makes it unplayable for me to many warps.
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Same Furios, Wotan, log in the MA, see 300 players online on a SMALL MAP, and there is really noting to do then to furrball, I almost only fly fighters, not helping much in field captures unless there is a mission going on, but I hate the lag in there now, the constant warping and HUGE furrballs over one single field where it's got to do more with luck then skill, not to mention that if you happen to find a nice 1 vs 1 fight, there will almost allways be 3 or 4 of the enemies friends who join in after 1 minute.
Gotto get more people in the CT.
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Hangtime, I know how you feel and thanks for replying in my earlier post (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43363).
I agree with Funked to a degree, about this scenario being prevalent in the MA. But it doesn't have to be like that. In Warbirds, I only ever flew in the MA, and yet with a couple of squads that I was in we managed to achieve worthwhile missions. I never cared for Scenarios. I only ever flew a couple in four years and found them exceedingly boring and tedious (eg. flying around in a B25 for 1¾ hours just to drop 2 eggs on a refinery ). I like the frenzy that can be engendered by MA gameplay, but not the constant suicidal arcade crap that I'm seeing in the MA now. Every time I see a con, I know that I'm going to have to avoid the HO, because that's what 80% of cons try.
I don't think it's just the arena. I think it's more to do with the large influx of new players, many of whom don't give a toss whether they live or die. Up to a point I empathise with them, because all these sims are very different from oneanother, and what works in one may not work in another. The only way to find out is to experiment.
One possible solution would be for HTC to enhance the offline gameplay. That was done in Warbirds a year or two ago. Instead of having drones that just float around waiting to be killed, the drones became aggressive and engaged in combat! This would provide the opportunity for newbies to practise effectively, instead of having to experiment online in the MA.
We're going to have to wait for the newbies to settle in. Persistent HOers will get bored and leave.
I hope this has provided you with a crumb of comfort.
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It's the new "culture" in AH. :rolleyes:
As for the idea of using the training board topics to help teach them? WOn't help. 85-90% of the players do not read these boards so that's not going to work as you're not reaching the audience you need to. All I can recommend is to set the example. Show folks the tools and what they can do with them. Unfortunately after all that is said and done only some of them will follow it and use what they've been shown. Most won't no matter what you do as it's not what they want in AH. The difference between what they want to do and folks like you do is as different as that by folks n the MA v CT discussion/arguments.
Westy
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Hang:)
It will get better soon...I know stuff.
In the meantime, give me a shout when you're online and the squad will join whatever it is ya want to do. Fly with us for a bit when it's busy....it will make a diff me thinks:)
It's a cycle and you know that...happens throughout our travels and over the years.
Cyas Up!:)
(http://www.13thtas.com/rudesig.jpg)
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Hangtime: I guess it also depends who is on. We've recently had an influx of new people as we've all noticed. The Vets will join and don't need much instruction. Newer peeps won't join because they just don't know how. And those that are new might join but don't know what to do.
Given time.......hopefully, and I do mean hopefully this will change :p
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Hang,
I took about nine months away from the game. Got tired of it. Burned out. In the meantime, I checked in on the board once in a while, watched as new features were added. Finally, the time came when I said to myself "hm, might be fun to try again." Now I just find the enjoyment doing what I like to do. I might be a GV dweeb for a week. Lately, Ive been really working the 51-B. Or, I might not fly for ten days.
I've decided that not only does the game go in cycles, but individual players do too. There is the thrill of learning and your first kill. Then, as the game gets mastered, the enjoyment of refining your skill. Some go for points, or streaks, or leadership, but eventually the feeling creeps in that you've done and seen it all.
Take a break. For a week, or a month, or longer. When you come back, the game will have changed and you might have a new perspective. It worked for me.
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well hang... you could quit or u could simply try flying fighters for a change. If you fly fighters you will find lots of 1v1 2v2 5v5 etc.. and... you will be forced to fight. Or.... you could just join the 13th.
oh... and how ya gonna have "organzied" missions and 1v1 anyway? They are mutually exclusive... one is boring gangbanging and the other is merely boring dueling arena no SA crap. How ya gonna fly the way you do and not get bored or frustrated? You make your own bed. I been doing this for a lot of years and every furball is different and fun. Every mission is the same. The less missions in the MA the better.
lazs
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You're exaggerating too much. Or maybe it's just the time you're on.
I find missions on fri - sun evenings (EST -5:00 GMT) to be well orgranized and very successful.
Just last night I saw two successful missions in 45mins. One against a large fields also (a12 i think on baltic map)
As a side note one of reasons why you dont see bomber raids or bombers in missions is because of this nonsense resupply feature (sorry htc..nice concept but too powerful). I've pretty much given up bombing.
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Hang, just came off a mission in the MA to capture 61. Fairz ran the mission. I was charged with jabo FH in a F4U1C. Simple and straight forward, no way pts, just fly and have fun. We took the base. This is the first mission I have flown since comming back. It is a joy to fly these missions and I had a great time!
Look forward to flying with ya on one of your missions!
OZkansas
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It might help to realize not everyone plays this game for the same reasons. Not all players give a crap about strat, field captures, etc.
Alot of players just want to dogfight, thats it. Dont fault them, it's their choice to make. Unless you are personally paying their $15 a month for someone, you really dont have a say in how they play or what their focus should be. I join missions occasionally, and I still see plenty going up, but I like to dogfight, I like to furball.
Have your focus, do what you want, but please dont complain because not everyone shares your goals.
It is amusing how the CT fans will jump on anyones frustration trying to get them to come to the CT.
dago
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I am on my 3rd wk of not flying .
Last mission me and reaper did together he said "everything seems so hard now" or some such thing , I told him we could always play "checkers" on the http://www.zone.com . :D toejam we couldn't find a place were we could live after giving up some alt . Yes I know lazs :) But he hates to die .
I then said "I got a new dvd player from my kids and popcorn and a movie sounded good" . Ain't been back flying online since .
My plan is to take a nice break and then come back . My real hope is that my bro's will be out of that P51B and into one I can see in back of again :( I truly hate the back view in it .
RTCW is fun also , borrowed it and now have it cracked :p
U take care Hangtime .
spro
PS: Yep I come look at the map online and then just log off many times also . I think it's more me than the game though , like many above have stated .
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Originally posted by Dago
It might help to realize not everyone plays this game for the same reasons. Not all players give a crap about strat, field captures, etc.
Alot of players just want to dogfight, thats it. Dont fault them, it's their choice to make. Unless you are personally paying their $15 a month for someone, you really dont have a say in how they play or what their focus should be. I join missions occasionally, and I still see plenty going up, but I like to dogfight, I like to furball.
Have your focus, do what you want, but please dont complain because not everyone shares your goals.
It is amusing how the CT fans will jump on anyones frustration trying to get them to come to the CT.
dago
Not everyone that enjoys the CT (and the MA for that matter) jumps on anyone or antagonizes anyone. It seems to me that the folks that *don't* like the CT or any kind of event does some antagonizing themselves. That brush that you're using is a little wide.
Hang, hope the best for ya bud, I have enjoyed your company as a bishop and fying against your expertise in the past. I hope continues in the future
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hey hang,
i feel the same way you do. thats likely why i quit aces high. the game has changed alot from what it was when i started playing almost 3 years ago and not for the better. there isnt really anything to be done about it, the gameplay style of teh main arena draws this type of crowd : its obviously the target audience and it should eb according to demographics. i dont know how much money there is to be made on those of us who dopnt enjoy flying in a luffberry for 4 hours straight.
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Hey Hangtime, check out the 336th if you need a break from AH.
http://www.devil-dawgs.com
I have the same problems with AH as you lately but am sticking around till 1.09 at least and will see how the CT develops.
The main arena is totally fubar and if the CT does not work AH is going to remain what it has become, a too crowded playground.
The playground aspect is NP, AH and any sim is a playground for us, but the crowd and their method of play wears thin and if alternatives do not exist we move on.
I have had a great run with AH and hope to be here awhile but there is a great online alternative, much smaller numbers but intense action either dogfight or coop and http://hyperfighter.jinak.cz will make finding games easy.
The 336th has become home to some AH refugees and they are recruiting, check it out.
BTW, this is not an attempt to get guys out of AH, I may not be flying it but I support AH fully by maintaining an active account, I only post here to present an alternative to the frustration some are feeling.
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Hang,
Have participated in and enoyed several of your missions. The problem with the mission planner is that the orginator has no control over who joins. So the fact that you find yourself flying with newbies, kids, and those with no concept of tactics or discipline is inevitable. That's why I tend to avoid them these days.
Are there not enough FDBs online most times for you to run ad hoc squad missions? That's what the Firebirds do when there are enough of us about. Of course, that precludes escorted 1000 bomber raids.:rolleyes:
Last night we ran a Blitzkrieg capture of a field, deliberately limiting the numbers so we didn't have too many unknown quantities. Those that did join seemed to do their job well but the mission planner (Skyman) did put in a lot of work on the mission channel to make sure eveyone knew the score. It worked a treat and was very satisfying. So it can be done.
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Gents, i really appreciate you guys taking the time to show me how it looks from your vantage points; what the game has become from your perspectives.
I'm less than charmed by the current MA... and am excited about the CT's ongoing development. The Scenario Corps and CM's all deserve a huge thanks for keeping their oars in and steering development of a better game board. I hugely like the folks at HTC, and while I can applaud their marketing success and technical accomplishents I bemoan what it's done for my favorite pastime... well second...err third... ummm, ah.. fourth, favorite pastime. :cool:
Had a great loooong nights sleep, feel a lot better today about the AH world and frankly I was scared toejamless to reopen this thread to see what my whines had wrought. Thanks for cuttin me some slack, I'm not worthy.
The flat spot I've developed on my skull from pounding it against the AH MA wall is still sore, but I expect that will heal also. In the meantime, I'll look for ways and means to apply positive pressure to the problems.. In light of that revelation, perhaps it's time I applied to the CM Corps.
Thanks again gents.
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I'm one of the "new" folks in AH so I'll thow in my two bits here. I think you're seeing two main issues at work here...
First, is that you've got a lot of veteran players from other sims here now. Their ideas of gameplay will invariably differ from the veteran players here. No surprise, sims do differ subtly from one to the other, moreso when things like the overall strategic gameply (or lack thereof) are concerened. You all undoubtedly noticed that when you came to AH from whatever sim you were playing prior.
With that move comes set preferences on how one wants to play. I'll use myself as an example. I haven't played onlines sims for 6 years or so. The last experience with them was AW and WBs, the prior going back to the beginning of the last decade. Now, the prior very much shaped my style of play. Although AW did have certain strategic elements in its early days it was first and formost a furballing sim. That's what I grew up with, that's what I like. Accordingly I'm one of those folks who does stick to the furball areas, couldn't care less about who wins what capture, isn't at all interested in perk points or scores or living or racking up infinite amounts of kills without dying or whatever. Just want to fly and fight...and its my 15 bucks a month and that's exactly what I'll do with it, thank you very much. :) If I get an itch to help with missions, I do. For the most part though I pretty much ignore that part of the game.
That mindset, however, is not at all uncommon in MA. This leads to the second big hurdle here in that for play choices you've got a couple arena's that are near identical in what they do. For the most part CT is the same as MA. Its differences are quite sublte...shorter conns, restricted plane set, and now a different terrain. The udnerlying play, however, is identical. Its base warrior in a nutshell. Now I don't mean that to sound negative as that's not the intent. There's a lot of cool things about CT if you're after potentially more refined tactical/strategic play. Overall though it is simply a continuation of the MA theme though.
That's important because what you're basically left with is the MA as an increasingly furball oriented arena. Simple fact of the matter is that many folks ARE only going to want that for their play time, so that's in fact what they will do. Accordingly CT makes the most sense for those wanting a more structured mission oriented approach...or just a more team oriented feel.
Personally I'd like to see a purely furball arena be put in to give players something different from the "base warrior" gameplay that is the cornerstone to MA and CT. The Dueling arena has been suggested but that's not working as the plane set enabled is far to limited to be effective. Nevertheless, this would help draw some of the frivolous furballlers like myself out of the MA and into an arena where we don't get in the way of those making missions, and those making missions don't get in our way. Without that option available then obviously the MA is the place one must go for their play. Unfortunately those that are strategically oriented will be continually frustrated by the lack of enthusiasm many of use have to the ebb and flow of of those activities in MA.
As an aside, and very much worth noting, I see as many "vets" as newbies desiring missions in MA. One certainly doesn't have to be an old timer to appreciate that part of the game from what I'm seeing, quite the contrary. Moreover, you best have patience with these folks too if you want those missions to bear fruit in the days and weeks ahead. They have their learning curves too, just like everyone else reading and posting to this thread. Everyone was a newbie at some point. :->
Vortex
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Originally posted by Wilbus
Same Furios, Wotan, log in the MA, see 300 players online on a SMALL MAP, and there is really noting to do then to furrball, I almost only fly fighters, not helping much in field captures unless there is a mission going on, but I hate the lag in there now, the constant warping and HUGE furrballs over one single field where it's got to do more with luck then skill, not to mention that if you happen to find a nice 1 vs 1 fight, there will almost allways be 3 or 4 of the enemies friends who join in after 1 minute.
While I've been posting to the AH boards for some time now, I'm what most would classify as newbie to the actual sim, having just joined the mayhem about a week ago. However, I've been flying offline WWII sims since they first became available. My favorite offline sim has always been European Air War. It's well structured with deep immersion. The AI's predictability and the low resolution graphics are its only significant weaknesses.
So, when I entered the MA for the first time (about a week ago), I was somewhat dismayed by the disorganized mayhem present. Initially, I wanted to get my feet wet, so I avoided the huge furballs and concentrated on picking my fights carefully. Unfortunately, finding a decent one on one was difficult in the extreme. I'd finally isolate a single fighter and go after him, or play dumb by flying along straight and level, inviting a sniper to take the easy kill. Someone usually takes the bait and we'd have good ol' time for about 30 seconds. However, like tossing a gold coin into a Mogidishu street, the urchins race over in a horde to grab the prize. Of course, that changes everything. Most of these guys are fixated on getting kills to the exclusion of all else. No thought on tactics, no thought of protecting a fellow pilot. Naturally, being a "newbie" combined with a rather steep learning curve meant that my first two days in the MA were not very impressive. I had my bellybutton waxed nearly a dozen times without a single kill my for trouble (a few assists don't count in my mind) before I got the hang of things.
I have discovered a method to deal with this dog-pack mentality. Sometimes, if I'm in the correct frame of mind upon logging on, I find a field being swamped by badies, pick a Zero or Spit Mk.V and take whatever fuel is available or 75% max. Spawning in a hanger, I launch directly from there getting airborne as quickly as possible. Should badies fail to get me on the takeoff run, the fun begins. Hell, if I have to deal with being outnumbered up to 10:1, why not do so under circumstances where it's actually fun and I have some measure of parity, if not outright advantage: Down in the weeds, stallfighting. My favorite place to do this is in one of those punchbowl airfields. You know, the type on the coast, surrounded by high hills on three sides. This goes a long way to cancelling some of the advantage normally available to the B&Z planes. Should the badies want to engage (most usually do), they have to fly into the bowl. Once in, they will have to turn or climb to get out. Some of them don't get out. Flying the bog-slow Zero and marginally faster Mk.V under these circumtances presents major problems for the opposition. Engaging either type in a slow turning fight is suicidal, unless they happen be flying the same types (yet, that guarantees them nothing). One fact prevails. You will seldom be shot down by anyone you see. A hard turn or instant vertical maneuver will shake anyone on your 6 flying one of the "uber" fighters. Should they try to follow, they're dead two turns later. Still, even Saburo Sakai could not avoid the huge volume of lead being sprayed your way during this type of fight. Every Tom, Dick and Harry flying red-tagged airplanes will taking wild, off-angle shots at you, and just may find the mark. Then again, one lone cowboy in a Zeke or Spit can completely breakup a coordinated attack on the airfield (if any of you have watched Leviathn defending an airfield in his Mk.V, you'll understand what I mean) Killing two or three of the attackers can cause the remainder to re-evaluate their plan of attack, and often, there's a mass scramble by the more learned pilots to get the hell out of that punchbowl. At this point, they will usually confine themselves to high-speed passes, which if spotted, are easy to dodge unless they're coordinated attacks, and it seems that no one coordinates anything once the fight starts.
(By the way, I found that it is folly to take on a horde at altitude, or even low over water, in either the Zero or Mk.V. There's simply too many escape options open for your opposition, and you cannot:
1) Hope to catch them with either the Zeke or even the Mk.V.
2) Can't afford to try, because flying straight and level is instant death. In other words, should the guy you're after break and run, and you miss your first shot, turn away and look for someone else. Yeah, I know, that does take a lot of air discipline and most will continue the chase, usually to their peril)
However, the never ending incoming stream of party crashers means that you will eventually run out of gas, ammo (frequently both) and luck. But, what the hell, I find that this is at least a challenge. Since it appears that there is no short term solution to the disorganized MA, with its dogpack like swarms of arcade junkies, why not find a way to have fun despite these faults?
Sometimes, I take a Spitfire Mk.IX, load it with a droptank and go find a distant and quiet enemy airfield and wait for someone to get airborne. I allow him to get a few thousand feet of altitude, then angle in on him. This is the best way I've found to get a one on one that is not immediately broken up by the dogpack. There is one downside. As often as not, no one ever takes off and you find yourself flying lazy eights until you get down to bingo fuel. Naturally, when your fuel state is low, someone appears on the runway. So, you have two choices. You can drop down and kill him on the takeoff roll, or while he's too slow and low to evade. Or, you can be a gentleman, show a little mercy (frequently, planes taking off from fields deep in the rear are piloted by newbies just feeling out the MA) and just go home. Naturally, by diving down to the field, the AI triple A can ruin your entire day.
Generally I go home. I should mention that no one has ever given me anything close to a break or fair opportunity. That's not in the nature of the MA.
I fully understand the frustration of the MA. However, you can still enjoy the experience if you're willing to deviate from what you normally prefer and experiment a bit.
My best to all,
Widewing
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Ignore please, I somehow double posted.
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Hangtime said:
"perhaps it's time I applied to the CM Corps."
That would be nice if you get on as a CM!!
Ok, am going to say that there is a place for everyone(furballers & Base closers) in AH. This game isn't intuitive as it once was. Because some of us have been around since Beta days we have a better understanding of the sim. The new people from WB and AW have a somewhat understanding of AH, but someone who is new is totally befuddled! I remember the first time I played AW. I didn't know which way was up.
I think we old dogs need to cut any new pilot some slack. They are just trying to get oriented and prolly furball just because they haven't any idea of the strat involved. Heck, I have been away for a couple of months and am trying to get oriented myself again. And it's taking me some time to get used to the FM and strat again!
Guys, this isn't a simple sim(thank heavens)!!
Prolly in a couple of months the MA character will change as the new ppl grasp this world created by HT and crew!
Hang, I loved the way you defeated your own whine:) I am glad you are going to put your frustration to good use in the sim:)
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Log on,
See MA has 400 people,
See Mindenao Map,
Log off.....
Thats the problem with AH now, it has gone mass-market. It much better for HTC financially but the product has suffered, even though they are improving it daily. The old feel is gone.
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I know the feeling hangtime, many times ive put up missions with p38's, had about 15 people join (Lazer once got like 32 people in a 38 mission!)... we got to target, and about 9 of those 38's augered on their attack dives.
Thats disheartening to say the least hehe. :D
Widewing: It wasnt always like this. The reason its like this now is the small maps and the quick resupply/rebuild of ground objects.
Heck, before you had to get a really organized mission to get 4 lancasters and its 3 or 4 escorts halfway across the map... and had to get an organized hi alt defense quick before they plastered the HQ and killed the radar.
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Someone usually takes the bait and we'd have good ol' time for about 30 seconds. However, like tossing a gold coin into a Mogidishu street, the urchins race over in a horde to grab the prize. Of course, that changes everything. Most of these guys are fixated on getting kills to the exclusion of all else. No thought on tactics, no thought of protecting a fellow pilot.
Bingo.. give the guys a cigar. ;)
Nice post Widewing. I enjoyed it immensely.
Although AW did have certain strategic elements in its early days it was first and formost a furballing sim. That's what I grew up with, that's what I like. Accordingly I'm one of those folks who does stick to the furball areas, couldn't care less about who wins what capture, isn't at all interested in perk points or scores or living or racking up infinite amounts of kills without dying or whatever. Just want to fly and fight...and its my 15 bucks a month and that's exactly what I'll do with it, thank you very much. If I get an itch to help with missions, I do. For the most part though I pretty much ignore that part of the game.
Rgr that Vortex, good point... that rings sooo true. I don't wanna deny you and Lazs the furball.. never did. There has ALWAYS been a dominate furball percentage in the MA. Missions, and Strat mentality always involved about 25-30% of the game numbers... but now that percentage is down to about 5%... and so now it is not only unlikely to get a 'good' 1v1 or 2 v 2, it's also significantly less likely a mission can be organized and flown with enuff credible impact to obtain it's objective... gain the target and keep the pilots in it alive via teamwork.
whats developed instead is a kinda polyglot mob, bearing torches and waving clubs as they beseige a field in a massive vultch or low level furball on the edges of a field, with waves of goons appearing or not.. buffs stumbling around or not.. no cohesion AT ALL.. truly.. is this satisfying?? I guess it must be.. we're all doin it.
In the past the furballs and the missions co-existed.. the mission would begat a furball, then the field would fall and it would start up all over again... next field up the line. Now we get 5 hour seiges.. "bring out yer dead... *gong* bring out yer dead... *gong*"
*sigh*
Seems the MA has become a lot less than it could be... maybe it'll swing back to the old mix, I hope it doews. One things for certain.. these maps are too small or the numbers flying too large... and the server just can't handle these numbers of pilots in close proximity, because even if you do like the 50 plane furballs, you can't possibly be enjoying the warp fest THAT generates.
Again.. thanks for the input guys!
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You're too late, Rude's stopped the list. Nancyboy.
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Timing is everything.[/i] :)
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Hang:
How in the hell did you get into the FDB's? Whoever passed their entrance exam is not the same guy who started this thread. You sound like somebody pissed in your beer (why did Fatty grin when I said that?).
Hooligan
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Whoever passed their entrance exam is not the same guy who started this thread.
I cheated. And they were far drunker than I was when I applied.
You sound like somebody pissed in your beer (why did Fatty grin when I said that?).
It wasn't beer. At least i think it wasn't beer.
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This game sucks, I love this game! Love and Hate are two sides of the same coin.
I've been here 2 years after another two in FA and after 3000 hrs. of commercial flight time. Here's what I've found out.
This is a game. Flying an airplane in any of these sims is not flying a real plane. The hottest stick in here would be dead in 15 mins. in a real fighter if he didn't have the necessary training.
The number one missing thing in AH is a lack of real life military discipline. Military discipline is the reason why real world air forces win wars. It's the reason why people go into battle and stay there in spite of the normal human reaction of fear.
We will never have military discipline in here as the only thing holding us together are fake names and a computer screen.
We are however, capable of simulating same on very rare occassions e.g. last friday night when the Rooks banded together to repel a massive Knight attack. It was amazing, we agreed on predetermined leaders and followers with many hotshots putting aside their egos and following orders. Quite a bit like the real world military. Guess what? We pounded the bejesuz out of the enemy and forced a reset.
I loved every minute of my time in here last friday. I truly felt immersed and that my actions were accomplishing something.
That's it in a nutshell. Work together and this game is great. Remember, your disappointments usually come in direct proportion to your expectations. Join up with people who think like you do and this game will be great. Let those that don't do their own thing and don't try to force them to do anything.
Beeg
P.S Come to Rookland and you'll find out.
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HANGTIME, SUPPORT THE CT!!! IMHO THAT GUYS ARE DOING AN HARD JOB IN THE DIRECTION WE WANT!
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...sorry caps :D
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Originally posted by Beegerite
The number one missing thing in AH is a lack of real life military discipline. Military discipline is the reason why real world air forces win wars. It's the reason why people go into battle and stay there in spite of the normal human reaction of fear.
We will never have military discipline in here as the only thing holding us together are fake names and a computer screen.
Agree 100 per cent. That's why scenarios and TODs are so satisfying. If they were available all the time I wouldn't bother with anything else. But I understand why they can't be. Unless someone has an idea of how the preparation workload could be vastly reduced.
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I feel for you hang. Ever tried watching most of the guys online atm attack a field? Fly in at about 500ft AGL, drive straight at the acks, shoot off some rockets, maybe kill an ack, get shot down by the other 5 acks you didn't even try to avoid. Repeat ad nauseum until you can vulch the field for 5 hours while no-one bothers to attack the city.
I have gotten used to this so now I just laugh at the dweebs who do this and my squaddies and I clean up a lot of easy kills. Of course, on the other side of the coin are the alt monkeys who take spits up to 30k and complain that you won't try to turn with them when you are in a pony.
In short, come to the TOD's if you want some good missions and don't expect anything except dweebery extraordinaire fromthe MA. :cool:
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S!
In the CT we are looking at creating a different scoring system using existing number crunching system. I've had a few discussions with Pyro and he has indicated he is in favour of this. When he will be able to find the time in his busy schedule is another question, but it will be implemented sometime, hopefully sooner rather than later.
The re-vamped scoring system would provide the players with something like this:
1) Total planes shot down by either side.
2) Total targets destroyed by either side. (point system)
1) and 2) would allow for a different means of assessing victory, and could allow for an Arena where bases aren't captured. A Battle of Britain setup in the CT on an updated Europe map could use this type of Strat system.
3) Individual 'streak' scores. Ie. Pilots who are still alive and who have killed the most enemy aircraft/targets. This could be broken down into Top 20, (or 50) current 'streaks', Top best ever 'streaks'. The streaks would cover both bombers and fighters, ie. aircraft shot down, targets destroyed.
The idea here is to encourage players to fly 'real', ie. as if their life mattered.
There are a number of other ways we can provide different Strat systems.
And of course these scoring systems would be overlaid on the original Strat, thus we would still be able to use the base capture method if we preferred.
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The new wears off the daisy for everyone sooner or later. AH has gotten bigger, true enough. It has more planes, and the new planes make the match-ups different from a year or two ago. Still, that doesn't make the game stale. What does it is the sense of challenge leaving.
Many of you have done this game so long you can no longer feel the thrill like you did when you first started. It just isn't there. You don't have that question hanging over your head anymore, "Am I good?" Either you are or you aren't, and you figured it out long ago.
Hangtime, you are pretty much a pony man. After three years, how many new ways is there to fly and fight in it? The only way to keep the game fresh is to discover something new- one of the prime reasons frequent updates are the lifeblood of this sim. If people are not adept at finding "new" themselves, HTC has to help them along.
If you cannot find something different to do in the sim, something you can do without being dependent on others, you are doomed to leave. But whatever you do, don't point at others and the way they play as the source of your angst- you either want to be a part of it or you don't. Frankly, the way you spoke of the 8 typhie drivers in your example sortie would stear me clear of anything you set up in the future.
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Yep. I admit I'm new. However, I've been involved in online flight sims since computers could talk to each other. I consider myself rather malleable and able to adjust to new gaming paradigms relatively quickly. As a matter of fact, during my 2nd flight in Aces High, I scored 2 kills and landed with just a few holes in my airframe.
Alas, however, I must admit that I don't know near enough about this game yet. Strategic factors, flight models, tricks of the trade...they still elude me to some degree. I rely on the fact, though, that since I'm not eight years old and understand how to fight as part of a team that one day I will excel.
god bless.
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Originally posted by Buzzbait
The idea here is to encourage players to fly 'real', ie. as if their life mattered.
Here's my idea. Perhaps, if AH pilots could truly experience the fear and misery of flying a WWII fighter for hours on end with the knowledge that any moment could be your last, they would show more discipline.
So, prior to logging on, open all the windows and let the house cool down to outside ambient winter temperature. Next, place a fan next to your computer chair. Now, drink two liters of ice-cold water. Next, take a cold shower in your underware, and still dripping wet, go sit in front of the fan. Finally, HTC must write in a line of code that causes Windows to reformat your hard drive if you get killed during the simulation.
So, you have some real fear, you're freezing cold and have to pee like a race horse. Now, log on and enjoy a true WWII fighter pilot experience.:D
My regards,
Widewing
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Since day one I have had a love/hate relationship with online flight sims/games.....
On the very first sortie I made in WBs I loved/hated it.
On my last day in WBs I loved/hated it.
On my very first sortie in AH I loved/hated it.
On my most recent sortie in AH I mostly hated it but still feel a need to come back again. I love/hate this whole love/hate thing.
Truth is love/hate is cyclic...sometimes I love it alot...sometimes I hate it alot. The past few months in AH has been on the downward cycle...i.e. Ive hated it quite a bit but I think things will turn again so Im going to hang with it (again...the cycle thing you know).
Peace be with you,
Yeager
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Originally posted by Buzzbait:
The idea here is to encourage players to fly 'real', ie. as if their life mattered.
...AS IF their life mattered.
The whole question about gameplay IMHO reside in those words: "AS IF".
When we were children we were used to start a new game with "as if".
"AS IF" are the rules. Simple.
The best rules are rules that can produce an exciting and satisfying experience. But an experience.
That's why we use the word "simulation" and not just the word "game" in order to define this kind of entertainment.
Of course we are all different and anybody can prefere different rules for the games thay want to play.
That's why they're building this CT arena.
GO ON CT guys. World is big enough for many different games...
CT arena, where we play "as if our lifes mattered" is my choise!
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is there a group in here, a country; a squad that understands the mission planner, knows how to use it, does assigned tasks, obtains objectives? or is this whole damn sim now a big farging circle jerk monkey butt grabbing gangbang?
Yeah the Rooks. They've been becoming much more organized over the last few months due to the hard work of alot of squads working together.
I wish you the best bro but you're right it's alot more fun when things are organized. Now they are becoming that way regularly.
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Originally posted by eskimo2
Hangtime,
Your problem is that your still Bish!
Switch to Knight and all your problems will go away.
Knights never furball or lose focus. Every single Knight participates in missions and is 100% competent. We are also excellent comunicaters. :rolleyes:
eskimo
Hmmm. Must be an advanced case of low altitude sickness!
GronK
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Hang!
I know what you mean!! I logged on last night, flew one time and logged off! Even though I had a great sortie, something was missing. It was the something that had me flying for hours on end. I am a much better AH pilot than I was before. I can hold my own pretty well but there is something missing.
Furious, I do the same thing. I will sit there in the tower for about 10-15 miinutes deciding what to do.
I have already sat in the tower, looked at the roster, read the text buffer and then just logged off, without flying. I do this more and more as time goes on.
It may be a squad thing. As of now JG2 only has 3 active members and I do enjoy flying squad things! :) So maybe that is it.
So Hang do ya need a break? MAybe not from the game , but maybe from the way of flying. Maybe try some crazy things. Like a Hurricane low level ground attack. Or Mossies. Take JU88s on a low level sneak around to a enemy base way behind the lines. The FDB are a crazy lot and most of them are insane enough to do something that may seem stupid!
Well that my thoughts of it. For what it is worth!!
Swag
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Rgr that.. been flying the Mossie alot... and playing with those rooooski and LW rides in the CT.
I went ahead and backed of the start thing last night in the MA.. and stalked the edges of the furballs with the pony. Was like clubbing baby seals. *sigh*
In the furballs themselves, frames dropped to about 6-8.. smoke and toatal numbers in the secotrs beyond what the server or the FE could handle.
So... back to stalkin the edge for awile..... but frankly; even 10 kill sorties in there just ain't half as much fun as knockin down a field with 10 guys that know their stuff.
Yer right. I need something new...
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Originally posted by Hangtime
i used ta like this sim; enjoyed it immensely.. i'm sittin here askin myself, what did I USED to like about AH, and what don't i like about it now. I'm thinkin about yankin the plugs.. almost 3 years here, I've had a great ride, enjoyed flying this sim, enjoyed the fights, the scenarios, the MA.. but nowadays, all I'm catchin is aggravation.
Sounds like you got a couple issues Hang and its nothing that hasnt been discussed in a couple of other active threads:
1. Gangbanging/mob mentality
2. Newbies unfamiliarity of game
ALL OF THIS is attributable to the mass influx of ex-Air Warrior pilots when that game retired. I think in the LONG RUN this will be good for AH as an additional customer base and set of ideas. The problem is that most of them are still learning the vast differences in this game. Its just going to take time.
I've been here just as long as you have Hang and I still remember vividly that first night online when AH went live beta. I played for almost 2 years and took a long needed break when I began to feel like you are now. 8 months later and its refreshingly new again :)
Theres nothing wrong with taking a break once in a while. Just as Ram ;D
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Hmmm, got to hangs post a week or so late....but its funny how similiar his post and my thoughts are. Dont think I've flown a hop in a week and didn't even think about it yesterday...blew out of work early and just threw a saddle on one of my horses....normally I boot up for a hop or two 1st thing after I get home. Last couple weeks I've been working my horses a bit instead....bet they wish I was flying :). not going anywhere....but definately riding out the server problems for now.