Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: bowser on January 20, 2002, 06:26:54 PM
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...that is the question.
And the overwhelming answer seems to be...too gangbang of course. :)
It seems the last thing most people want in the MA is anything resembling a fair fight. And please don't confuse furballin' with gangbangin'. I love a good furball as much as the next guy. But a good furball to me is fought in neutral territory (so there's no ack hugging) between fairly even numbers.
I wish I could post a picture of the map. If it wasn't so rediculous it would be funny. You have 50 green dots here, with a couple of red dots. And over here you have 50 red dots, with a couple of green dots. Situations like this all over the map.
What's the explaination? Are these missions, big squads.....or as I suspect, just girlie men?
bowser
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It's a consequence of AWACS. People go to where they know they will have an advantage. All they have to do is hit ESC and check the datalink, find the friendly swarm, then fly in that direction. Then they can pick off the people brave/stupid enough to enter their zone of air dominance.
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It's a consequence of being able to tell what target your countrymates are hitting, and if that attack is going well or not.
Surely you're not suggesting that this most basic strategic information not be available.
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icons give gang bangers too much of an advantage. i have been flying in a no icons environemt a bit and you can survive much betetr against numbers because you dont have to id the enemy (they all are enemy!) and they do.
plus without icons you have the ability to try and get the hell out of dodge when you think they have lost sight (ie negative g or some other manouver) and be a few thousand yards away before they reacquire you.
the combination of easy mode icons and radar make gangbanging inescapable in aces high.
before toad comes in and says icons are realistic, well to an extent i agree with you. i know you can id a con at longer ranges than we can even with 6k icons. but the fact is that you have to look at it for a second. in a close environment like a furball, the instant presence of neon red on the screen lets you tell friend from foe with your periphreal vision, while in real life you would have to lfocus to IFF.
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Originally posted by bowser
But a good furball to me is fought in neutral territory (so there's no ack hugging) between fairly even numbers.
I observe the same ganging behavior you describe. I, also, believe it is a bad thing. The answer, for both of us, is that we plainly do not grasp the reality aspect of AH. This is real war. For real points. This is not a game. We should be flying another sim if we think the object is to have fun and/or to acquire and exercise ACM skill. I'm surprised you don't know this yet.
- oldman
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bowser.. you are correct. The very best fights for most are large fights or at least fairly even fights over neutral territory with some chance of slower/earlier planes returning to base after the fight.
oldman... I believe that the gangbanging can (and has been from time to time) "adjusted". the arena settings determine the types of fights. See my thread on organization ruining the ma.
lazs
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Best thing to do is put up a mission for a fighter sweep when you see the gang bang in progress, then sweep the area from a satillite field. Other than that, don't up the field thats getting banged.
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Incidently the only time someone complains of ganging is when they're the recipient. :D Therefore I highly suggest the Special Events arena, if your tired of getting ganged, thats the place where you'll find a fair fight. MA is basically a relaxed realism arena with the AWACS radar and long distance icons.
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I think funkedup hit the nail on the head...or hit it as close as possible anyway. AH has a pretty potent radar engine that allows folks to really pick and choose where its safe and where it isn't. This of course works in extreme's, from the massive green hordes walloping the 3-4 odd red dots, to the ability to track friendly blips even when out of your own radar range (I see 4 friendly radar blips off my nose, there's 5 dots there, based on positioning the high dot is the enemy...pretty basic stuff).
In the end though I'm never surprised by a dot. I always know ahead of time what it is. Moreover I'm always fully cognizant of what I'm flying into insofar as numbers go even if I don't have the ability to see unfriendly radar blips.
The other side to this is that the radar does help keep the fights a bit lower, theoretically anyway. I'm not sure how much an issue that is now though as I constantly come across Spits in Space, parked 10k above my 15k e-fighter. Without the present radar I'd think that one would see a lot more folks heading for the heavens at the sight of a simple dot.
Vortex
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you are very wrong rip about people only complaining about gangbanging when they are the recipient. I believe that I am not the only one who finds circling above a caped field fighting over scraps is no fun. I don't believe that bowser was asking how he could get in on the gangbanging.
So far as "organizing" a mission to stop a gangbang.... I don't believe that getting into that depth of but numbing non action is a real alternative.
lazs
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Laz:So far as "organizing" a mission to stop a gangbang.... I don't believe that getting into that
depth of but numbing non action is a real alternative.
lazs
Ya lost me there Soldier.
Basically what I am saying is I create my own furballs. That is, when a gang bang is going on, counter act it with a few squaddies or make a mission and fly to that area, then let the fur begin ripping. Not hard to do laz. Look around, you'll find your 30 vs 30 fights. You just have to open your eyes first.
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Originally posted by lazs2
you are very wrong rip about people only complaining about gangbanging when they are the recipient. I believe that I am not the only one who finds circling above a caped field fighting over scraps is no fun. I don't believe that bowser was asking how he could get in on the gangbanging.
So far as "organizing" a mission to stop a gangbang.... I don't believe that getting into that depth of but numbing non action is a real alternative.
lazs
Do what I do when getting gangbanged:
Like Rip said, wing with squaddies or friends if they are online and kick some bellybutton or switch sides and attack the third country if theres no one you know to wing with.
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Good comments.
As for being the recipient of gangbangs...actually I'm just as pissed watching my countrymates do the 'banging. Why would you want to join a gangbang anyways? You may be safe, but you're going to have a hard time getting a kill with all of the competition. If the idea is to avoid getting into a fight, why even bother with AH?
I don't think you can blame radar. It's a tool used by 'bangers, but you can also use radar to avoid the gangbangs...either side of a gangbang.
Certainly matching their numbers is a solution, but that's part of my complaint/whine. Instead of going head to head where the opponent's strength is, most seem to prefer to attack where the other guy isn't. The result is two gangbangs instead of one furball.
bowser
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Fair fights you can get in the DA... well, at least when we had a DA that had planes in it... :(
In AH Main you will either be the banger or the bangee.. to decide which, look at the AWACS data link if its an issue.
One interesting pastime that the furball is giving me that has greatly improved my intrest in the past few days is chutes.
Focus and fixate on chutes.. don't attack manned fighters.. attack men without fighters. see how many you can tag in yer average gangbang before going winchester. Give yerself extra points for channel 1 whines, or bagging one just as he kissies the dirt. Double points if yah get him in freefall. If there are not enuff chutes to spark your intrest, start chasing flaming wrecks.. do your part to keep the furball frame rate manageable, this improves gameplay for everybody in the furball.
Very refreshing. :)
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I don't get pissed about gangbanging. It's just that it is not much fun from either side.
It happens because of the arena design. I have never been foolish enough to think that the so called "strat" system is the point of the game. At best it just provides a convenient premise that gives the players some objectives to fight over. Most people who play this game have real lives and busy schedules. As far as I can tell they just want to shoot something in that 30min or 2 hours that they have to spare for the game. If the MA was suddenly only populated by the people who really care about "strat", it would probably be down to 75 or less a night.
If HTC wants the "strat" system to encourage 50 vs. 1 fights while the various countries grab each other's bases with little opposition then the "strat" system is working fine. If they would prefer to see lots of 10 vs. 10 fights or a few concentrated 50 vs. 50 fights then it's not working so well at the moment. The MA design could foster any one of these themes. There is no intrinsic conflict between that the buff guys who want to smash strategic targets, the dogfighters and the territory capture guys: this conflict is an artifact of the arena design. The MA could be changed so that everybody had their fun and not at the expense of the others.
Hooligan
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The MA could be changed so that everybody had their fun and not at the expense of the others.
Life is fun at the expense of others.
Explain how the MA could be changed... please, we want it too!
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Okay hang:
Have a lot more fields and make them much closer to each other. Make fields hard to disable and easy to capture. Change the MA so that fields change hands rapidly and frequently. Make field capture feasible for an attack by only 2 or 3 jabos with no other support required. Change the MA so that territory is most effectively captured by sending many small missions to many different enemy fields.
See more details in:
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43614
Hooligan
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Intresting. You may have something... maybe you should paste this into the CT poll tread too.
Its pretty radicaly diffrent from what he have now.. not sayin that ain't good, more like wondering 'is it possible?'. It draws a picture in my mind of the old Fighter Ace field layout from MS... and i wonder if I'd ever get a takeoff without a coulpa jugs straffin my bellybutton into confetti.
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OK, first of all I'm not much of a poster, more of a lurker, but I can't resist this thread. I've seen the same thread in many different online games. "Gangbanging sucks, its no fun. These people are all no talent newbies", or something along those lines. Well I can tell you with 100% certainty that no matter what HTC does there will always be gangbangs and people will always complain about it over and over again. How many times has this thread repeated itself on these boards? I wouldn't know cause I've only been here a couple of months. (AW Refugee: I'm sure at least a few of you have a low opinion of AW'ers, though I'm not sure why.) Gangbanging is not a problem with the game design, or the field distances, or the effort required to capture a base; it's a problem with the people playing the game. The gang bang problem is happening right now in every online game on the market. It's human nature to survive, even in a virtual enviroment. And people will do just that in the easiest way possible.
I have devised a few theories on the reasons that this is happening in AH, (drawing in part on my AW experience).
Theory 1:
I'm fairly new to AH so I'm not quite sure what people "value" in this game, but it looks to be score :mad:. People look at the rank beside their ID and think, "If I lower my rank, I am getting better at the game. Therefore I am better than those with a higher rank. The easiest way to get a lower rank seems to be flying in packs and picking fights you are certain to win. Of course there is always the group of people who could give a rats arse about their score and just do whatever it is that they find most entertaining at the time :D.
Theory 2:
The majority of people want to "win the war". The easiest way to take a base is by mass invasions where you easily wipe out the opposition with few losses, then move on to the next. That's why you see raids on undefended bases. It's the old idea of bait and switch. See those 15 enemies halting our attack on base X? Base Y is nearly undefended so lets hit it hard and fast when they aren't looking. I think the best solution would be defensive missions with fast climbing interceptors when it is apparent an attack on a base is imminent. However, I find that only a few people in my country can actually draw a large amount of people for any type of mission. (I think I will try to organize defensive missions from now on.. who knows, people might join) :).
Theory 3:
Most people enjoy winning even if the odds are overwhelmingly in their favor. Who wants to lose right? So they do it the easiest way possible... Gangbangs! Solution: Ummm???
What do you guys think?
Mike
http://www.479thRaiders.com
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Originally posted by Hooligan
Okay hang:
Have a lot more fields and make them much closer to each other. Make fields hard to disable and easy to capture. Change the MA so that fields change hands rapidly and frequently. Make field capture feasible for an attack by only 2 or 3 jabos with no other support required. Change the MA so that territory is most effectively captured by sending many small missions to many different enemy fields.
See more details in:
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43614
Hooligan
I don't think this would solve the problem, just because I believe gang banging to be human nature. But I have yet to see it in action. It's probably one of the best ideas I've heard tho.
Mike
http://www.479thRaiders.com