Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Page on January 20, 2002, 09:44:29 PM
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(http://blue_thunder_hq.tripod.com/j2m3_files/jack00.jpg)
HISTORY:
MITSUBISHI J2M RAIDEN (LIGHTING) “JACK”
Although it was designed in October 1938, almost five years passed before the Mitsubishi J2M Raiden (Lightning) was used in combat. In fact, the preparation of this interceptor took an extremely long time, due above all to numerous technical problems connected with the functioning of the engines, which were never entirely resolved. Only 476, including the various prototypes, came off the assembly lines and most of these were used to defend Japan during the last months of the war.
The Imperial Navy had issued a request for a land-based interceptor some months after the program for the Mitsubishi A6M Reisen (the famous Zero) had been launched, and this coincidental timing was the primary cause for the delays. In fact, since al of Mitsubishi’s technical staff was occupied with the development of the new fighter, eleven months were to pass before the exact specifications ere defined. The requests included a maximum speed of 372 mph (600 km/h) at 19,736 ft (6,000 m), the ability to climb to the same altitude in less than five and a half minutes, and the ability to operate at combat speed for 45 minutes. These characteristics, which for the first time called for qualities of horizontal speed and ascent (in an interceptor), rather than those concerning range and maneuverability, indicated a change in mentality in the general staff of the navy, as well as great fore sight.
However, this foresight was not compensated by practical results. The first of three prototypes took to the air on March 20, 1942, and a whole series of problems immediately emerged. A further eight months were necessary to solve them. The initial problems concerned the retracting mechanism of the main landing gear as well as that, which regulated the pitch of the propeller. Later on, problems occurred with the engine, a large 1,430 hp Kasei 13 radial, which drove the propeller by means of a transmission shaft. A decision to pull back the propeller consequently improved the aerodynamics of the aircraft. In addition, the Imperial Navy’s pilots complained of highly limited visibility through the windscreen.
It was thus necessary to carry out many modifications and as a result, even the original engine was replaced by the more powerful Kasei 23, which generated 1,800 hp at takeoff. However, this change was the cause of fresh problems. The engine, that possessed a water and gas injection system to increase its power in the case of an emergency, was the first of its kind to be developed by the Japanese aeronautical industry, and it proved to be the source of complex tuning problems. In addition, dangerous vibrations within the engine at certain speeds also had to be eliminated.
The fighter went into production in December 1942, with the designation J2M2, but after only a few months the assembly lines came to a halt. Soon after, the cause of two inexplicable accidents was discovered: the mistaken position of the tail wheel’s retracting mechanism which, set in motion immediately after takeoff, blocked the controls in a diving position. It was not until December 1943, that the Raiden was ready and by that time, a new version (J2M3) with heavier armament was already prepared. Production completed 155 J2M2s and 281 J2M3s, plus 34 J2M5s, fitted with a Kasei 26 engine generating 1,820 hp at takeoff. However, the fighter retained its initial faults, even in the new versions. Nevertheless, the Raiden remained active right up till the end of the conflict, and scored several successes in the struggle against the enemy bombers.
(http://blue_thunder_hq.tripod.com/j2m3_files/jack01.jpg)
Stats:
Aircraft: Mitsubishi J2M3
Nation: Japan
Manufacturer: Mitsubishi Jukogyo KK
Type: Fighter
Year: 1943
Engine: Mitsubishi MK4R-A Kasei 23, 14-cylinder radial, air-cooled, 1,820 hp
Wingspan: 35 ft 7 in
Length: 32 ft 11 in
Weight: 7,560 lb
Maximum Speed: 369-405 mph (depend where u look) at 19,407 ft
Ceiling: 38,486 ft
Range: 1,179 miles
Armament: 4 x 20 mm cannons
Foot Note:
Many People are not aware of the power and speed of the J2M3 had. The problem laid in the lack of pilots that could fly this mighty bird to best performance. Many Japanese Pilots did not know how to fly an “E” Fighter. They were use to out turning there foe. When the idea of a fighter that could not turn as well as the zero came up many pilots we reluctance to fly it, but there were the few that did. Those that master this craft found them selves out turning aircraft like the P-51 and being able to almost hang with it at high alt.
I strongly believe this aircraft if model right can turn the table around in ACES HIGH scenarios based on “JAP” VS “USA”. The only bird that is worth flying at med alt at this point is the N1K2; everything Japanese in the Main Arena is not worth flying against the popular American and British aircraft. They just plain and simply are out classed "Hanger Queens". I hope the ACES HIGH crew would take this bird into consideration for the NEXT Japanese Fighter. Thank you all for your time. (S)
(http://blue_thunder_hq.tripod.com/j2m3_files/jack02.jpg)
Reference: Complete Book of World II Combat Aircraft (1933-1945)
Illustrations by Pierluigi Pinto
Copy Right 1988
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400mph, average to good turning, 4 20mm cannons?
Thats the Japanese C-Hog it seems. *G*
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:D That right Mr. Tac 4 x 20 mm cannons:D ...
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sounds like i'd be an awsome addition to the AH planeset tho. give it a few perks like the Chog
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This is the Japanese fighter that I most want to see.
The speeds that I have listed for the J2M3 are 371mph at 17880ft (from The Great Book of WWII Aircraft), 380mph (from The Illustrated Directory of Fighting Aircraft of WWII) and "over 400mph at 20000ft" (from the highly inarcurate Jane's Fighting Aircraft of WWII).
The J2M5 seems to have been able to do 380mph at 22300ft.
The intial climb rate I have is 3,610ft per minute.
The J2M3 was armed with 2 20mm Type 99 Model 2 cannon and 2 20mm Type 99 Model 1 cannon
The J2M3a and all versions after were armed with 4 20mm Type 99 Model 2 cannon
Production:
3 J2M1 prototypes
155 J2M2 production aircraft
260 J2M3 production aircraft
21 J2M3a production aircraft
2 J2M4 prototypes
34 J2M5 production aircraft
1 J2M6 production aircraft
(http://www.combinedfleet.com/ijna/j2m3.gif)
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Hi Page,
>The only bird that is worth flying at med alt at this point is the N1K2; everything Japanese in the Main Arena is not worth flying against the popular American and British aircraft.
Here's what René Francillon has to say about the N1K and the J2M:
"Compared with the Mitsubishi J2M3 Raiden, which was the only other interceptor figter available to the Navy, the Shiden Kai had a nominal maximum speed advantage of 4 mph, but it had a much longer range while being more manoeuvrable and having markely superior visibility from the cockpit. Consequently, the Navy adopted the Shiden Kai as its main type of interceptor fighter and ordered the aircraft into production as the Navy Interceptor Fighter Shiden Kai Model 21 [...]"
(From "Profile 213", p. 59)
Regards,
Henning (HoHun)
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:cool: HoHun (S) Thank you for your input, but there are many storys on the J2M3 vs the N1K2. I think it depends who flown it an so on. All depends where you look at. I am in no way saying that the N1K2 is not a great bird. Beside N1K2 is not the subject. I just wanted to put out some info out to all the pilots that may not know what the J2M3 was in the pole that was being posted. Notting more bud. Thxs again for reading. (S);)
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Silo...I was forgetting that I had J2M2's (Jack 11) performance graphs. :)
Do you want them? :rolleyes:
(It's based on TAIC.)
-Mitsu
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J2M3 Raiden (later model)
DIMENSIONS
Length:
9.695m
Span:
10.800m
Height:
3.945m
Wing Area:
20.050m^2
Wing Aspect Ratio:
5.82
WEIGHT
Empty:
2,538kg
Gross:
3,499kg
Overload (MAX):
4,095kg
POWERPLANT
Mitsubishi MK4R-A Kasei 23, 14-cylinder radial, air-cooled.
1,820hp at takeoff
1,600hp at 1,300m
1,520hp at 4,100m
LOADING
Wing Loading (gross):
171.0kg/m^2
Wing Loading (overload):
200.0kg/m^2
Power Loading (gross):
2.18kg/hp
Power Loading (overload):
2.56kg/hp
PERFORMANCE
Max Horizontal Speed:
587km/h at 5,300m
611km/h at 6,000m
Time to Altitude:
6,000m/5min 50sec
ARMAMENT
Two Type 99 Model 1 20mm cannon (Shorter Barrel, 210 rds. each)
Two Type 99 Model 2 20mm cannon (Longer Barrel, 190 rds. each)
Two No.6 (60kg) Bombs under the wing
One 300lit. or One 400lit. Drop Tank under the centerline of the fuselage
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^ Mitsu, if its Jack 11 Report 105a-1, I have that page already, thx. However, I am not sure how theirs reached 405 Mph.
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;) I don't think the top speed of a J2M3 was 405, but i strongly believe that it range from 380 MPH+, its kinda hard to range a bird that had massive engine problems. I leave that up to the Tecs of Aces High to figure it out:D (S)
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Yes, It's a Jack 11 Report 105a-1.
It has Speed, Range, Climb performance graphs.
-Mitsu
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By any chance those anybody know what aircraft will Aces High release in the next upload, and when?
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Page,
The announced aircraft are the Ki-67, Bf109E, Bf110C-4, Hurricane MkI and Spitfire MkIa. Pyro said there might be one or two surprises as well.
To see some screen shots of the Bf110C-4 and Ki-67 go here: http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/previews/ah109/
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Good luck with it Page.
How does it handle in Roll?
Thats alot of 20mm ammo...So two of the 20mm are equivilent to MGFFs and the other two are like the 20mm on a N1K2?
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Hi Page,
>Thank you for your input, but there are many storys on the J2M3 vs the N1K2.
The official story is that the J2M was inferior in performance, handling and range to the N1K so that the latter was chosen by the Navy as standard aircraft, while the former was abandoned.
I love alternate history and the forgotten underdogs, so what's the secret story of the J2M? I might become a fan, too :-)
Regards,
Henning (HoHun)
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Hi Ho Hun. he way I understand it, old J2M was otw to the scrap heap in favor of the N1K1/2J. However as I understand it... once the B-29 started showing up over Japan... things changed. Raiden was given a second look and a new lease on life because I could climb like the devil.
According to Francillion (who isnt always correct, but good enough for an overview)
N1K2-J:
Max Speed - 369 mph @ 18,375 ft
Time to 6000m - 7m-22sec (7m-50sec for N1K1-J)
Wingloading N1K1J - 34 lb sq ft
Wingloading N1K2J - 34.9 lb sq ft
Powerloading (both) - 4.4 lb/hp
J2M3:
Max Speed - 365 mph @ 17,390 ft (J2M2 371mph @ 17,880 ft)
Time to 6000m - 6m-14sec (J2M2 5m-38sec)
Wingloading J2M2 - 32 lb sq ft
Wingloading J2M3 - 35.1 lb sq ft
Powerloading J2M2 - 3.9 lb/hp
Powerloading J2M3 - 4.2 lb/hp
The N1K1/2J also had about 50% MORE range than the Raiden. Not big news in a game, but critical for real pilots in a real war.
So, it seems like the are both rather similar, with the J2M3 being more of a sprinter or Hotrod. Yes two cannons on the raiden were Type 99 1 (worse than MG/FF in raw data), but hell, it fired the same shell as the Type 99 2.
The Raiden would be an awesome in game point defense intercpter compared to the N1K. Basically, its a trade of, Climb vs Range.
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The Raiden is a much better looking aircraft as well. N1K2 I've always though was the ugly duckling of Japanese fighters.
Here is a paraphrase from one book:
"After VJ-day the Allies spoke in glowing terms of its performance and handling."
It might be that the J2M was a Japanese fighter that didn't lockup at higher speeds like the N1K2, A6M and Ki-61.
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(S) To all, thxs for the input guys, and Karnak thxs for backing me up bud. I would love to see this mighty bird take to the skys someday soon in Aces High.:D (S)
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Do we know how it rolls?
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(S) As far as I know it was a good roller, due to its short wings and big ailerons. But I am not sure....:cool:
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From Air Enthusiast/July1971.....
A pilot of the TAIC who had flown the Me109,Fw190,Ki43,Ki84,Ki45and A6M said after 3 hours and twenty minutes in the Raiden that "this was the best fighter of the Japanese he had flown!"
Handling and control good at all speeds from stall to 325mph but the ailerons are heavy at normal cruise speeds and become exceptionally so above 325mph....roll not as good as P-51
good points
1. good stalling
2. good stability
3. comfort
4. good take-off and landing qualities
5. good performance
6. manoeuvere flaps
bad points
1. brakes and rudder action
2. heavy ailerons and lack of manuverability at high speeds
3. low reliability
4. short range.
I still would prefer the Ki-44IIb which has better roll than any Japanese fighter.....
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J2M is the best buff Killer in Japan!
-Mitsu
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Can anyone post the Jack 11 Report 105a-1?
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http://www.skynet-1.com/aircraft/raiden.html
found great 3 view of J2M3. :rolleyes
-Mitsu
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Seems like nice E-fighter. :)
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Sounds like it'd be a good plane to add for the JAP side of hanger selection.
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Guess you guys missed the part about heavy controls....that in itself makes for a lousy E fighter.
Japan wanted a "get the hell up there and shoot something" fast plane not a E fighter to kill b29s. Thus this plane got second life by being able to climb so damn fast.
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You can E-fight without using highspeed attacks. Good climb weights much more. I think this could be very good fighter if flown right. Not only an interceptor.
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The only bird that is worth flying at med alt at this point is the N1K2; everything Japanese in the Main Arena is not worth flying against the popular American and British aircraft. They just plain and simply are out classed
Actually the tony is a quite cabable plane. Personally I don't have any problem taking on all comers with one. Will I "win" em all....hardly...but i'm usually losing to the other pilot not the plane.
The only thing uber in here might be the guy holding the other joystick.
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Greetings! I am a Not-so-new member always looking for fellow hog pilots to wing with and fight against. If anyone's interested, let me know. I've been flying online sims for several years, so I'm not completely green, I just know there's always more to learn with the Hog, so I'm all ears :)
I fly pretty much anything, but I just love Big Blue :)
I'm a Knight, but don't let that scare you!
Gainsie
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sorry, I hit "reply" and not "New post."
Please disregard, I'll create a new thread :eek: