Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: lazs2 on January 21, 2002, 09:55:35 AM
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yep... lateley we have had a huge push toward "organized" field capture in the MA.. Even the most timid strat potato, sky accountant will admit that it is nothing more than organized boredom. sounded good but it worked out to be a real bore.. fields are being hit by huge numbers. There is fie3ld capture but.... It's no fun. There is no fight. Maybe a few newbies will attempt to get off the runway and 20 guys will elbow each other out of the way to strafe him but.... No real fights.
Lesser populated enemy fields are soon filled with ack huggers waiting for you by the time you spend five long minutes flying to em... great for small talk, lousy for an air combat game... The best fights now are only sporadic... meeting 2 or three guys halfway that haven't gotten the "team spirit" yet. Our squad was actually asked by another to join in on this unfair and unfun gangbanging action.... some kinda "joint operations" thingie. Crap really.
someone said in another thread that the best fights are ones that are fairly equal in number and happen on "neutral" ground... somewhere between fields. With the long distances between fields this just ain't gonna happen. the long distances force people to join in on the gangbang or die.
Make the fields a little closer so that the slow planes have a chance to make it back if the fight looks real bad or if they are bingo ammo or fuel. I think it would kill the ill effects of "joint operations" in the MA if the fields were closer... guys would up to intercept halfway. course... we need to change the "kill a couple of leantoos and no fighters available" thing at the same time. What are the best fights right now? The few fields that are closer and the CV's but neither lasts long as the enemies of fun hate seeing a good fight and it is easy for them to close a field or suicide bomb a cv.
lazs
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diddly off
Midnight
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..ban him!
Seriously, his numerous posts clearly show that the strat system in MA is hurting him to the soul, that the buffs and perked planes are inducing a physical pain to him, and that the sole existence of CT is a torture he can't bear anymore.
HTC, you have to do something quick before he sues you for mental abuse....
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back atcha pony girl.
lazs
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desillys.... I suppose if you can't dispute what I say then your comment is as good as any.
lazs
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Our joint ops are pretty fun really.. but if you souly into air to air combat you wouldnt have much fun.
A lot of the time we are just flying heavy fighters and dive bombing, which doesnt apeal to many, but my self like to play "different games" sometimes.
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I just vew laz as the balance to the realism fanatics. Neither will get there full wish but both have to be considered.
HiTech
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Instead of giving out remarks like that, try flying on rook side when we have 17-25 players being attacked by raids that have more people attacking a single field than the whole country has defenders.
I had the 'pleasure' of encountering one of such attacks as the lone defender of the field. 20 vs 1 now that's a fair fight. At least it seems that's what you want.
The film (http://users.kymp.net/cable130/vitunspitit.zip)
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laz if this is a trawl diddly off
if its serious diddly off you strange bitter fool
:D
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after considering all the oppositions points one by one.... I believe my point is still valid.
Amon... yes.. I agree that some have fun at this but I feel the pendulm has swung too far. I think that it will get real dull real soon.. I'm just the canary in the coalmine. Pretty soon even the worst of the timid will see it. Certainly the new guys are chafing at it.
I believe that you enjoy some real fighting (come on... I seen ya).. You certainly don't want it to go extinct. What I am proposing would not stop missions. More close fields and tougher cv's.... fitghters available longer at front line fields.
lazs
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Originally posted by hitech
I just vew laz as the balance to the realism fanatics. Neither will get there full wish but both have to be considered.
HiTech
Ones person opinion? yikes....
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Bigger maps please. The current ones were designed when AH would average 100 people in the MA, we now have 300-450.
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Oh my Gawd.........now I have heard it all........:rolleyes:
Hangtime was upset about the lack of organization in an earlier thread, now our good buddy Lazs says there is too much organization and it is killing his game. :p
Lazs, hats off to ya! This one takes the cake, comrade. In essence, you just told HiTech his game sucks. You seem to desire nothing more than anarchy, you think anything that detracts from your own personal game is detrimental to the game as a whole. HHhhmmm.........
Back to what I suggested earlier in another thread. Setup your own arena in H2H, or better yet, go to the Training Arena. You can regulate what planes people can fly in H2H, and lots of the folks that populate the TA only want what you do, furrball, furrball, furrball, no worrries about base captures, hardly any buffs, etc.
What you are failing to realize, Lazs, is that there is room in AH for both organization and anarchy alike. The mission guys can do what they want, you can do what YOU want, only time there is friction is when they bump into one another. If you see a whole gaggle of enemy cons where you are going and you continue on, you are asking to be shot down, gangbanged, etc. Oh wait.....I forgot that anyone not flying the way that you want is detracting from the game..........
Can anyone else reading this imagine what it would be like if Lazs had control of the game? After he implemented all his ideas and wishes, what would he have? ;) Answer: An arena populated by one or two people, maybe not that many.
Hitech, Pyro, SUPERFLY, all the HTC staff! I think you've done a great job with the game and hope you keep advancing it. Don't let Lazs and his feeblemindedness impede progress. He already has the means to get what he wants, all he has to do it setup a H2H arena or go to the TA.
FWIW: From Dorland's Medical Dictionary, 23rd Edition,
feeblemindedness: Mental deficiency from arrested mental development. The feebleminded are divided into 3 grades: IDIOTS, with a mental age below 2 years of age; IMBECILES, with a mental age between 2 and 7 years of age; MORONS, with a mental age between 7 and 12 years of age.
The jury is still out, but so far I have think Lazs rates no higher than the "idiot" definition. His "me, me, me, ME!" attitude
makes me think that is the right class for him.
:p
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Lazs, if you look ONLY for good dogfights, loosing minimal "travel" time, not being "erased" by the strat guys and not messing up with ack huggers, then there is a question for you:
Why do you keep flying in MA instead of DA or TA? It seems that what you are looking for is a simple 4 midwar planes vs 4 midwar planes.
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I will poke my head in and get flamed:)
I am noticing a real push on strat and if you wanna fight you need to bring some friends in order to not be outmanned 10 - 1.
This is not necessarily a bad thing, but at times it got frustrating getting slammed on the deck. The only thing to do is to get YOUR country working together and mount a strong defense/offense.
The games a changing in the MA. You can't fight it Lasz, you just have to adjust to it and go with the flow. I prefer to dogfight more than grab real estate, but that means going up against a horde at times.
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Last time I looked, Lazs was flying rook....and I never heard a THING against the opposition and their missions or tactics when I am online. I fly rook too, not a thing on the country channel griping about the "organization" of the bishes or nits.
Lazs, how about getting some of these "new guys" who are chafing about the current setup to post in here in support of your claims? So far, you are the only one who feels the way you do, or at least, no one else cares enough to post in here saying they feel the same way you do.
Hangtime, email me will ya? I got an idea cooking.................
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Laz at first read i had to agree with midnight.
But because you took the time to post your thoughts, however crazy, they deserve a genuine response.
I dont really see anything wrong with mass attacks. In fact i have been part of a few, on both the attacking and defending end. I agree with you that there has been alot of this going on lately....GOOD sez I!!!!!
There is nothing worse than having you countrymen split amongst a dozen or more targets. It ends up in a fruitless and monotomous die and respawn festival with little or no ground gained. That may be fine for you, but some of enjoy the "strat" element of the game and talking fields. What better way to achieve this than make a mass attack.
Personally i love flying in an organized mission with light int. fighters, jabo fighters, buffs and gruntwagons. To ME this is not only a hell of alot of fun, but is, brace yourself....somewhat historically realistic.
Now then, as for your comments about a huge mass messing up a base and only a few clueless newbies upping in a desperate attempt to foil the organized swarm, you are, for the most part, absolutely right.
But this fact has nothing to do with the size of the incoming raid. Most of us would rather go hunting than be hunted right? However, there is no greater joy for me than when a call comes out from a countryman (eg Busher :) ) that a base is being pummeled i land as quickly as possible and go to the base that is taking it in the brown. Why? because that is some of the most fun i ever have in the sim. Not only do you have the thrill of being the underdog, but if the base is held with a few selfless and score ignorant teamates, you have the feeling of a job well done, of beating the odds of a huge attack etc... To me that is ten times the feeling of a hat-trick sortie in a fur-ball.
As to your suggestion that we move the bases closer together. Wont this just make things worse? I mean the huge gang raids will still happen, but there will just be less warning time from the sector, dot dar. Thew way things stand now, if you see a swarm of cons at least you have time to land and get a bit of alt at the attacked base before that attack starts.
One other point Laz. You have been here for a long time, you may even be considered one of the "elite." Therefore you feel no fear in upping with a few skilled wingmates and going hunting. However new customers and sticks, in my opinion, benefit from having a large number of pilots to fly with on a mission. They get to learn formation tactics, wingman tactics, proper comm usage (unless i am also tuned to the mission channel, then they learn how NOT to do things) and best of all: a sense of community.
Just my thoughts on your post, take it for what you will.
loser111
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Oh, so lazs is my opposit I guess.
Not many things are better then organization IMO, damn fun when a plan comes together and you see the enemy fields go under to the knight supremacy, one by one as you hear the enemy scream out for mercy!
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Hehe Wilbuz. Over the week-end was an example, capturing 31, then hitting cities, HQ, then capping HQ to prevent goons from coming. Dog fites all over that area...laz would have had a good time.
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Come on, Lazs, where is your supporting cast? Opinions opposite your coming in, yet nothing from anyone on "your" side? :D
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Lazs, please continue to suppose things...
The truth is I've learned better than to discuss with you. Learning to read Noldor Elvish would be a lesser waste of time.
So I just answered to your grotesque post with a grotesque suggestion...I was assuming a lot of ;) :D :p weren't necessary to view my previous post as a smartass comment, which didn't required any answer...I guess I was wrong.
Btw, your post could have been a superb troll. The problem is that you meant every word of it.
HT, balance is indeed the key. Lazs seems just a tad off-balance to me...but maybe it is just me.
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This new BB rocks!
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LOL Staga! The sad part is, his lone opinion, or damn near lone...is "heard". Just take a look from V1.05 to V1.08.
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Is Lazs a curmdgon (sp?) or what? He's like this stubborn ol'mule that you just gotta like due to his never faltering views. :)
xBAT
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CC Rip, was there for a little while (new stick giving me trouble). Was FUUUUN! :D
Flew an IL2 (yeha yeha yeha, I got a bit hungry for it after playing IL2) to teh rook city/train, took one hell uf a beating from the train before going down :)
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I spent most of last night trying unsuccessfully to find a fight. Showing up at a enemy field where 30 friendlies are circling it hoping to vulch someone isn't much fun. Likewise taking off from a field with 30 enemy overhead lacks appeal. The arena would be a lot more fun if the strat system generated lots of 30 x 30 fights rather than 30 x 1 fights. More numerous closer fields that were easy to capture and recapture (but difficult to disable) would possibly help.
Hooligan
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Note: Hooli and laz on the same squadron. ;)
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Do I think organization is ruining the MA? No. I actually advocate strat guys having thier way, to a point. It promotes fights IMHO. Is effective organization having an impact? Yep.
We have some rooks here now that are exceptional organizers. Multi-squad strikes are the norm in rookland lately. I applaud them. Well done.
An example of what lazs is pointing out was lastnight. Every field we flew to was flat, lol. Buffed, capped and goon OTW. Seriously. It was 4 or 5 in a row. Guess we just didn't fly fast enough. :)
What few cons were there, they weren't defending, they were in escape mode. T'weren't no fightin' unless you ran em down.
Captures are way too easy. These multi-squad strikes are very sufficient with capable leaders. They're too good, lol. These guys can take a base in 1 strike. I've seen feilds roll up over and over. I've been in AH from the start. Noone has been this organized before. It's kinda like the JPC we had in WB but these guys are on every night! :) Now, thats good when you log on and have 4 or 5 bases. These guys get started and in an hour or so, you got 10.
IMHO it would balance a little better if fields were a little more difficult to capture, ie., harder tin roofs on the hangars :) or revetments, harder CV's, you get the idea.
But then what do I know? I fly with lazs, :D
Editied to insert: Too many smiley faces you dweeb.
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Well, Hitech, if lazs mean spirited posting is considered by you a balance I think you need to have your scales checked very soon.
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Originally posted by eddiek
Come on, Lazs, where is your supporting cast? Opinions opposite your coming in, yet nothing from anyone on "your" side? :D
I for one think he's hilarious.
H
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loser... no I don't think moving the fields slightly closer together and toughening the CV's will result in more gangbanging. I believe what I stated, that, closer fields will make it feasable for the slower midwar planes to feel that they have a chance to leave the ack and intercept a force somewhere in the "neutral zone"... and still make it back when bingo. fields can still be overwhelmed but it will be a little harder to find people willing to leave the fun of the fight for the dubious pleasure of "formation flying and killing Ai". They do it now because the fear that they have no chance for any other kind of fight. If they venture out on their own they learn quickly that they have no chance. Soon they will tire of the whole mess. I also believe that a fur with roughly equal numbers in a "neutral zone" (or nearly so) will teach newbies infinitly faster than any amount of formation flying. Most are decent sticks now. I know, I fight em. And yeah.... I been around a long time. Me and my squaddies can fly around and pick our fights and get a lot of risk free kills if we really want to I guess. We don't do it much tho cause it is boring. we are constantly looking for a fight that isn't toooooo lopsided. A bit of irony here.... lateley we have been avoiding any field where a whole flock of green dots are going..... There will be no fight there! The enemy knows you are coming and still they won't up. you will find a perfectly intact field with no cons except maybe GV's... at the same time, they will be hitting another field in the same manner that you are hitting theirs. And to what purpose? Capture the flag? is it air combat or capture the flag? I want air combat.
eddiek.. I have seen no worthwhile opposition to what I have said. Your posts are as silly as desillys and the other anti lazs posts are simple kneejerk simpleton posts from a predictable cast..... no real substance there I'm sure you will agree.
lazs
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Well, APache, you should have been on Friday night when the rooks got the reset, you'd have had your choice of 38 fields and many furballs.
Bottom line, the MA ebb and flows like the tide. If you don't like what ya see when you log in, log off, come back in an hour, its bound to change! ;)
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Got to say I sort of read this thread with a bit of amusement. On the one hand there is another thread by Hangtime in regards to nobody working together and now here is one about too much organization.
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First I don't think organization or lack of organization is the problem that is causing a few guys to get slammed by a large group of enemy. Simply put, during peak hours there is close to 400 people in the MA. This means that almost no matter where you go its going to be a furball with lots of planes in the air. There are exceptions to his of course but usually 2 out of the 3 country fronts are simply mobbed with planes as two stronger countries try to beat each other too killing the third.
On Friday night (1/18) it was first the Bishops and Knights racing to reset the Rooks (Knights got reset) and then later it was the Rooks and Bishops racing to reset the Knights (Rooks got reset).
So whether its an organized mob or an organized mob 2 fronts are going to see heavy fighting with the leading country and the second leading country trying to finish off the weaker third. Sometimes when there is some oranization you will see fighting erupt on the third front between the two leaders as they try to stop each other from getting a reset. If no organization basically everyone just goes to the hot spots and ignores that front.
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Now as for organizing itself basically in the case of the Rooks its a simple reaction to the situation we percieved ourselves to be in before November 2001. Simply put many of the Rook squads started getting sick of being ripped to shreds by the other countries because the other countries planned organized raids through the mission planner, because we were unorganized and nobody outside of your squad would help you no matter what. That people were not even doing check six calls, and there were several times when the Rooks instead of fighting the leading country in the MA (at a specific time) kept attacking the under dog country to such an extent that we caused the reset to happen when another country was ahead in bases. I am sure that the Knights and Bishops feel the same type of things apply to them and have similiar stories.
So 5 Rook squads (non-rotating squads) got together and said guys lets try to start working together, cover each others sixes, and plan missions. It has grown from these 5 squads to many more. We don't run "Officially" planned Joint Ops every week (too much strain to do so) but it happens every couple weeks or so. However, the culture in Rookland is changing to the point that when we don't have Joint Ops alot of squads still are work with each other on the fly and wing and cover other rooks tails and not just their squadies. Basically they don't go back to "I only cover my squadies" mentality or mindless furballing mentality.
Basically the organiztion, in the Rook case, was a reaction to the percieved organization of the other countries (especially the Bishops at the time .. about 4 months ago). We plan objectives on the fly tasking squads or elements of squads to go after them in the manner their C.O. seems fit and fight it out. Most of the time I end up flying goons but basically you have fighter sweeps and screen defenses set up, bomber assaults on supporting bases and strat going on with high alt escort, jabo attacks, special ops, squads tasked to be a flying brigade to switch from one area to another rapidly as the situation develops, ground assaults (when the map permits .. mass GV attacks can be a blast), etc., etc.
More importantly is that nobody armed is twisted to do this. Nobody is berated for being apart of not being apart of it and the squads do it volunteerily.
With this many people in the MA basically many members of the RJO belives that either its just a mindless furball mentality (which we don't like all that much) or we can run things on a "country ops mentality" since many squads are small to medium and don't have the numbers to make any impact by themselves. However with allying with other squads then they feel like a team, feel like they make a difference, and get really proud when they are tasked to do something (like the RRR was in stalling the Bishops in the North) really important but not very glorious. On the country ops mentality basically things being fought out like two or three countries trying to win the war (reset) with all sorts of action going on for that goal.
Point in case many people have said that bomber ops are not much fun or the damage can be easily repaired so it takes the fun out of bomber ops. When bombers are used to support concrete goals its is quite fun .. we have two full squads (40+) that love running bombers ops just because of this type of flavor and action.
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Now basically the MA is going through a cultural shift. The days of small packs of pilots or fighting each other in small engagements or even strictly one on one fights are few and far between because AH is start to consistently have 300 - 380 in MA at peak and around 180 - 280 during non-peak.
Organized actions when facing unorganized resistance tend to shred it. Which in turn can cause other people to organize which changes the culture of the game. Nothing can be done about that since you can really expect HiTech to say .. sorry but you 120 people can't play right now or you guys can't organize on anything higher than a squad level.
So its a cultural shift .. and I am sure there will be others .. especially when they implement the new bomber features they have talked about.
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Lastly I will agree with some people's points that a larger map might help more since with bases spread out more that organized forces have to spread their forces out more to support more operations and cover more fronts from counter attacks.
Smaller distance between bases I personally believe would just tend to even more emphasize concentrating forces in certain areas.
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Laz:"I also believe
that a fur with roughly equal numbers in a "neutral zone" (or nearly so) will teach newbies
infinitly faster than any amount of formation flying. Most are decent sticks now. I know, I
fight em. And yeah.... I been around a long time. Me and my squaddies can fly around and
pick our fights and get a lot of risk free kills if we really want to I guess. "
Then promote the DA, they put the DA up when you squeaked about not enough furballing back over a year ago! Then you had the balls to thumb your nose at it!
For the record, the only 3 that agree, or semi-agree with Laz so far in this thread are all his squaddies.
I'm outta this thread, too much Laz "Me Me Me". :rolleyes:
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Oh, and as for air combat .. yes it still does happen .. but then again it depends on what you call it.
The bomber escorts have had a hell of a time defending the bombers from attacks. Those guys told to screen for attacks to the W or E or N or S of a field while a Jabo force hits the field usually have a good time trying to hold the line and stop enemy fighters from breaking through and hitting slow and heavy jabos and goons coming in.
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Now as for your point about smaller fields helping earlier war planes .. you are probably right. Right now I usually see Spit Vs, Sea Fires, and Zekes just come up to do field defense when a base it under assault or almost under assault since there low speed is not a disadvantage then and their greater maneuverabilit is an advantage.
MA, for whatever reason, mainly sees the late war planes. Not sure what really can be done to encourage more people to fly earlier models. I fly several planes for the share challend of them. P47 models and Hellcat for example.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Well, APache, you should have been on Friday night when the rooks got the reset, you'd have had your choice of 38 fields and many furballs.
Bottom line, the MA ebb and flows like the tide. If you don't like what ya see when you log in, log off, come back in an hour, its bound to change! ;)
I was. The knights got the reset I believe, yes?
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Originally posted by lazs2
I'm just the canary in the coalmine.
Wouldn't that be nice. Then we would only have to listen to your broken-record chirping until the CO level got to the point where you just keeled over.
Do us a favor lazs.
FIELD A>>> MIDDLE <<
Tell us, oh learned one, what altitude should fields A, B and middle ground be at, and what distance should be between them?
What resources should these fields have, and how much should be there of each type? How should these resources be depleated, or should they be infinite?
Should those resources be damageable by the enemy? If so, how would the enemy do the damage?
Should the fields have defensive armament? If so, should it be destroyable? What range should the guns have? Should they be automatic?
If an enemy plane shoots you down, should you be able to get in a new plane and instantly shoot him down, or be able to get to his field within a couple minutes and kill him as he is landing?
Please, enlighten us with your view of the perfect combat game. Through all your endless complaining and whining and name calling, you never seem to actually spell out what it is you want.
If you can't take the time to answer the above questions, then all you are is another burden on society, endlessly blaming the rest of us for your problems.
Or would you prefer to toss a few more insults around and put a broad classification on a very different group of people?
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it boils down to.... do you like 30 v 30 fights or 30 vs 1. desillys, sunchaser and eddiek can't disguise that. Very close fields would be a disaster but slightly closer fields really work. They work now. The closer fields (and CV's) are the areas that are popular till they get (all too easily) shut down.
you can tell ht he's full of toejam all yu want but he knows what happens when the "realism fanatics" run the show just as when you go too far towards a furball arena. He isn't blind and sees the numbers in the CT and special events. They can't maintain any energy for a 24/7 arena. Still I'm surprised he commented at all knowing as he does how touchy you guys are. I'm sure there will be some tear stained pillows tonite from the "realism fanatics" who no doubt feel betrayed at this point.
and rip.... you go on and on about some "DA". Who cares about your DA? I have allways said that seperate arenas don't work. No contradiction involved here.
lazs
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Originally posted by Apache
I was. The knights got the reset I believe, yes?
No, Rooks got reset on Friday night, Knits got it earlier in the afternoon (probably night on east coast)
Basically we reversed positions, we were in the hole, and rooks got reset.
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Apache,
Knights beat out the Bishops for the reset around 10 pm EST by reducing us Rooks to 1 base (terrain was Mindanao). Rooks then beat out the Bishop for the reset (terrain was Big Lake) by reducing the Knights to 1 base a little past 3 am EST .. about 5+ hours later.
There was no formal alliance between the Bishops and Knights. But I think the Bishops were pissed off at losing not winning the reset and attacked Knights and of course the Rooks were not happy about being crushed so also attacked Knights. Nothing breeds jealousy like success. ;)
Anyway there was some light action going on between the Bishops and Rooks up north which didn't really heat up (say more than 20+ each side so 40 pilots in North) until after 1 am and then the Bishops got more serious about trying to take bases up there so Rooks wouldn't win the reset.
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I see something wrong with it when maps are being reset in 6 hours or less. Bases are FAR too easy to capture.
J_A_B
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midnight... (I will have to ask my daughter but wasn't one of the "my pretty ponie" series called "midnight"?)... Nothing wrong with the fields as is except that they need to be slightly (10-20%) closer... slightly less thatn a sector. fighters up till all hangers down (better would be revetments but..). The closer fields would give more people more choice. The fact that you could fly out to meet a group of cons half way would "rob" players from the organized gangbang. They could still get up a raid but it would be harder to find people bored enough to participate.
lazs
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Then promote the DA, they put the DA up when you squeaked about not enough furballing back over a year ago! Then you had the balls to thumb your nose at it!
For the record, the only 3 that agree, or semi-agree with Laz so far in this thread are all his squaddies.
I'm outta this thread, too much Laz "Me Me Me". :rolleyes:
Just as an aside Rip, the Dueling Arena was locked down the last few weeks. Recently Spit V's have been enabled at the 3 furball fields but that's it. I'm not sure if this is normal, or new, or what the poop is. In short though without all fighters enabled there's not much to promote.
Vortex
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J_A_B,
To some extent I agree that bases are far too easy to capture. When they are hit by an organized force or there is an organized assault going on against a country with 3 strike forces and bombers supporting you can really watch bases fall fast as the unorganized / uncoordinate defenders simply can't react fast enough or well enough to stop the organized attack.
As skernsk pointed out the only real defense against an organized attack is an organized defense.
So even if you make the bases tougher to capture I still think they will fall just not as fast. The key all comes down to the defenders (people actually flying).
Fastest we ever did a reset in the 5 official RJO joint ops was 3 hours the other two were 4 hr 45 minutes, and then 5 + hours. Other two did not get resets.
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Last night by the way was just a pickup game where several Rooks squads were on at the same time and decided they did not like being down to 6 bases only (around 9 pm EST) and decided to do something about it.
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"it boils down to.... do you like 30 v 30 fights or 30 vs 1. desillys, sunchaser and eddiek can't disguise that."
No need to disguise anything. The MA is what it is, a complex arena, with all types of players, some looking to be part of organized raids, at one end of the spectrum, and some, like you, who only want to get into action with a minimal time in transit. Funny thing is, they can and DO co-exist right now, as we speak.
"30 vs 1"? Looks like somebody either greatly overestimates his ability, or is just plain nuts if they up at a field with those kinds of numbers facing him. Or, more likely, both.
If you look back, Lazs, you will see that I was one of those who used to clammer for more 1v1 fights, or at least ones with smaller numbers. But, unlike you, I saw that everyone has the right to fly the way THEY want, and when I reached that point, it all made sense to me. I could accept the fact that I was not in control of anyone other than myself, or I could quit.
Looks like you need to look at AH overall and decide if this is where you really wanna be...........if you can't accept that not all of us want to do what you want, you are never going to be happy here.
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Laz, you want fair fights, go join the Special events arena. The MA is a relaxed realism where anything can happen.
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HiTech sticking up for Lazs?
Hmmm....
Nevermind, that speaks for itself.
:D
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As I suspected, you skirt around the issue and throw in some vague description, rather than laying out any details.
Are you trying to get personal with me lazs? Are you such a big man that you feel that feeble attempts at insulting me directly will make you feel better? Should I reply with a "my dad can kick your dad's ass" comment?
It is truely sad that you are incapable of bringing your points to the table in a mature fashion. Constantly opening your dialog with an insult or general disrespect for those you are addressing.
You are lazy and incompetant by your own admission. Why should anyone listen to what you have to say and take it seriously? Given that the general concept of WWII flight sims has been the same since AW day 1, I really don't understand where you think your idealism would work. If people really wanted what you think they want/need, that is the way the games would be.
If I sent you a gun and a bullet, would you promise to use it in a constructive manner?
Midnight
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eddiek... do whatever you want in the arena. got no problem with that. I am merely asking for the ability to do what I want. The close fields in any map are the most popular as are the cv's but both have been shut down very quickly lately. Seriously.... when there is a good fight between two fields people will do it for an hour or until one field is overwhelmed. Obviously they/we are enjoying themselves. lack of close fields is a problem, either because there aren't enough or because they are too vulnerable to people who don't like fighting at them anyway.
the huge numbers we have now came in when things were a little less "organized" less gangbanging. I see a problem developing. I am sure that it will sort itself out tho. My suggestion for slightly closer fields would no doubt do it but I bet something will be done. Maybe not my ideas but something to slow/moderate the gangbanging. no amount of shrill protesting will change that.
edit here for midnight.
and midnight... I am sure the irony of you talking about anyone having an insulting manner is not lost on the gentle readers of this board. Read what i said. it answers your questions. we do have some fields that are 10% or so closer than others. the sky does not fall in around them. they require no drastic changes to ack or ai or flight models or method of respawn. you have no point.
lazs
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I don't really think HT was sticking up for Lazs, I just think he was pointing out the fact that there is room for all in AH......even someone as self-centered and self-gratification seeking as one such as Lazs.......:D
From Lazs:
"And yeah.... I been around a long time. Me and my squaddies can fly around and pick our fights and get a lot of risk free kills if we really want to I guess. We don't do it much tho cause it is boring."
So Lazs gets to exercise freedom of choice, but anyone else who does is just ruining things......:(
You already are doing what you want, Lazs, it's just the others aren't cooperating with you that pisses you off, right?
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Lets See the object of the game is to fight and capture bases. The object of being in a squad is organization. The object of belong to a squad in a perticular country mass organization. Some people need to go play pixie sticks and stay away from massive multiplayer online games like this. What the hell he want a furball only arena. Its called game play get over you loser.
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eddiek... i am asking for more choice in the arena not "freedom of choice" either you don't understand the difference or I don't understand one word of what appears to be giberish you are spouting.
and midnight... by all means send me a gun and ammo. I would suggest a single action army in colt or Ruger in either 3220 or 357 so as not to duplicate existing firearms. If it's not too much to ask.... 4 5/8" barrel (they balance well in my hand). I assure you that I will know what to do with it.... And... thanks in advance.
lazs
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Lasz the malcontent is back!!!!!! Run for the hills!
Personally, I dont see the increased organization as a problem. Rather, I think its a benefit to the community to see the new strat rules go into place making team play more important and reducing the ability of 1 or 2 people to "steal" bases out from under the noses of unsuspecting pilots.
I think what Lasz is complaining about is the standard gangbang whine which does seem to be a bit more of a problem with the current maps.
In my opinion, I think the problems have already been stated and are attributable to the current mapsets we've got. The maps like Lake Uterus and Mindanao are suitable for up to 200 players in the arena but get overloaded when we have over 350 like we've been since AW went under. What we need are bigger maps to thin out the fights a bit rather than funnel players towards very narrow fronts. Bigger maps might also decrease the network probs many of us have been experiencing of late.
Whereas, I dont particularly have a problem with gangbanging since I understand its ALWAYS going to happen with our mob mentality, I wouldnt mind seeing maps with multiple fronts where we could pick and choose our type of fite.
The pacific map we have now with the central furball island does a good job of spreading out the combat as did the old beta map. Other good maps were the old ETO map from AW (not the historical one, but rather the fictional map with Cz in upper left, Az in upper right and Bz across the bottom). And the AW PTO "historical" map which many of us flew in FR.
While I do not agree that decreasing the teamwork is what needs to be done here, I DO think that maps which spread out the fite (rather than funnel it towards a narrow front) are necessary.
-Ding
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
No, Rooks got reset on Friday night, Knits got it earlier in the afternoon (probably night on east coast)
Basically we reversed positions, we were in the hole, and rooks got reset.
Ah. I keep forgetting about that silly time difference thing, lol.
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"So even if you make the bases tougher to capture I still think they will fall just not as fast. "
Perfect. That's exactly what my suggestion is intended as--it would slow down the landgrab a bit. By no means do I want to stop it entirely.
J_A_B
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indian said... "Lets See the object of the game is to fight and capture bases. " If capturing bases causes the exclusion of fighting then the "and" part is missing. Opinion varies on why people join squads but "getting organized" is a very small part certainly. Gameplay? furballs aren't gameplay? Gamelay is a funtion of layout... get used to it loser.
lazs
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"eddiek... i am asking for more choice in the arena not "freedom of choice" either you don't understand the difference or I don't understand one word of what appears to be giberish you are spouting. "
Okay, let me put it in your language then Lazs:
You (Lazs) want more choice in the arena, yet you already have multiple choices. You already make choices each time you log in. From where to fly, what plane to fly, where to fight, whether or not to fight......all are YOUR choices.
What you suggest about moving the fields closer together does nothing for anyone but you (Lazs); you seem to want to have your cake and eat it too.
"Nothing wrong with the fields as is except that they need to be slightly (10-20%) closer... slightly less thatn a sector. fighters up till all hangers down (better would be revetments but..). The closer fields would give more people more choice. The fact that you could fly out to meet a group of cons half way would "rob" players from the organized gangbang. They could still get up a raid but it would be harder to find people bored enough to participate. "
That statement there says more than any other you have made, IMO: You want to "rob" players in missions, so you can have your way. Hate to break it to you, but a well planned mission has a good chance of succeeding no matter where you meet them, unless you catch them just lifting off from their runway. If the enemy runs a mission thru the sector where you are furring, there isn't any need to get mad about it. Move on to another field, start over again. If you choose to stay and fight and get killed, the fault is ALL yours, not the game or the players.
Yikes! It just hit me that I am only making your distorted views appear credible. :eek:
Lazs, post all you want, I'm outta here. Your viewpoints might make sense if you presented them in a manner not so blatantly aimed at making the game suit your own particular tastes and no one else's.
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Originally posted by lazs2
edit here for midnight.
and midnight... I am sure the irony of you talking about anyone having an insulting manner is not lost on the gentle readers of this board. Read what i said. it answers your questions. we do have some fields that are 10% or so closer than others. the sky does not fall in around them. they require no drastic changes to ack or ai or flight models or method of respawn. you have no point.
lazs
Lazs, it does not answer my questions.
Put a number on it. not a "10% or so" answer, a hard number, like 20 miles, 5,000 feet high.
And again, tell us what you want. An answer of "no drastic changes" means what? what do you want changed? How should it be?
Where did I say I wasn't being insulting? And what is the irony of it? That my insults to you are composed in with more manner trying to avoid child-like name-calling?
If you would like to refer back to my first post on this matter, feel free. That is basically what I said in all following posts, including this one. Maybe someday you will.
Midnight
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Ones person opinion? yikes....
Rip,
I've enjoyed your missions immensely, but I have to say that I agree with a lot that lazs says as well. I appreciate that others like a different type of game than I do, but given a choice between losing the furballs or the strat play, I'd ditch the strat play in a second. That's my personal opinion there, and I think both sides can and should be accomodated, but if the strat mavens got everything I've heard them ask for here, my enjoyment of the game would be sharply reduced. If fields were easier to make unusable (crater damage) and stayed broken longer (super goon complaints) I would spend more time reacting to others' playing style than enjoying my own style.
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ed... if the only fields with cons are 30 v 1 or 1 v30 or... i have to fly a sector and a half to find out... then my "choices" are limited. Ther is no viable choice for me. I certainly have the "freedom of choice" to join in in the gangbang or fly to an empty field or whatever.
If the fields were closer then the fights would be at more points on the map. I would have more "choice" . it's pretty simple really. Also... with fields far apart it favors the late war planes over the mid war and especially the poor helpless early war planes. Closer fields would siphon off some of the people participating in missions now simply because they have no choice.. well... they are not actually "participarting" so much as blending in with the crowd because the other options are worse.
As for me complaining about being vulched... I believe that if you ask anyone who has been around awhile .... you will find that I take my chances and don't complain when vulched.
lazs
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Perfect. That's exactly what my suggestion is intended as--it would slow down the landgrab a bit. By no means do I want to stop it entirely.
J_A_B
Jab,
I agree that toughening up the bases some will help. Right now I sort of find it more dangerous to take out a CV group if you don't have high bombers overhead than bases. So both probably could use some toughening. In the case of CVs .. a simple evasives button would be nice so that the controller can just hit it instead of trying to plot evasives right as planes are coming in.
In the case of bases I am not sure how much.
My earlier point was that an organized assault is going to take the base no matter what. To make it take longer for an organized force will need a lot more toughening of the base. Which if overdone might make it impossible for a non-organized strike to be able to take it or seriously hurt it.
Sort of a fine line to walk .. make it tougher so a strike of 20+ have a harder time but don't make it too hard to where only a force of 20+ coordinate / organized guys can do it.
Always an interesting problem of how much toughening is enough. :)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
For the record, the only 3 that agree, or semi-agree with Laz so far in this thread are all his squaddies.
So, what you're saying is that like minds tend to group together? Why can't members of a squad each have valid opinions, even if they are the same?
I for one wish fields would be a little harder to capture again, with the main field playing more of a role in the success/failure of a capture like it used too. I think the longer it takes to capture a field the more likely it is that you'll find a good fight start to develop over that field. I'd like to see the map room moved back onto the main airfield, but it'd be nice if the town still played some sort of role into the overall strat of that particular airfield...I just don't know what that role would be.
SOB
-edit- LOL...just noticed there were two pages to this post and I only read the first one! :)
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Originally posted by indian
Lets See the object of the game is to fight and capture bases. The object of being in a squad is organization. The object of belong to a squad in a perticular country mass organization. Some people need to go play pixie sticks and stay away from massive multiplayer online games like this. What the hell he want a furball only arena. Its called game play get over you loser.
Umm, people join squads to get more organized? uhhh, , eh...org, squa, wha? :D
SOB
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I dunno lazs,
Ive always considered your well and oft stated preference to be one of overall mayhem and general dweebery aka "furballs" ...
Today AH is far more of what I thought you have been striving for than it has ever been IMO yet you still find it completely unsuitable to your preferences?
Is it perhaps a case of "be careful what you ask for, you just might get it" or are you genuinely disaffected by the current MA
and its aweful lack of anything except complete dweeb chaos.
Y
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I am pretty sure that making bases HARDER to capture is not the answer. If it takes the coordinated efforts of 50 players to take a base then you will end up with 50 vs. 0 fights. If you want lots of 10 x 10 fights then it should be easy to capture a base with 10 guys in fighters. Large organized raids can then capture 4 bases at once rather than capturing them one at a time. Also bases should be harder to disable. If you want more opportunities for fights the following will probably give it to you.
1) More numerous and closer bases: So you can fly to a base under attack quickly without having to take off in the vulch zone.
2) Make bases easier to capture: Allowing lighting quick capture and recapture by small groups of players who know what they are doing. This will split up the hordes of 30 or 40 as they attack several bases simultaneously.
3) Make it hard to disable bases: So the defenders can continue to fly and fight from a field under attack.
Right now we have something of the reverse situation. A couple of buffs can shut down the defenders at a base but it still seems to take quite a bit of time to capture it even though nobody or very few are defending it.
An MA that has a lot of small bitterly contested actions where bases are captured and recaptured rapidly will be a lot more fun than one in which 40 rooks milkrun a bish airbase while 40 Bish milkrun a rook airbase.
In this kind of MA a big organized force can split into groups and start taking bases 3 or 4 at a time. Small groups of defenders can actually do something useful and recapture fields quickly. An MA with a lot of captures and recaptures will give everybody lots to do regardless if they like jaboing, furballing, organizing big raids etc....
Hooligan
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Originally posted by Hooligan
I am pretty sure that making bases HARDER to capture is not the answer. If it takes the coordinated efforts of 50 players to take a base then you will end up with 50 vs. 0 fights. If you want lots of 10 x 10 fights then it should be easy to capture a base with 10 guys in fighters. Large organized raids can then capture 4 bases at once rather than capturing them one at a time. Also bases should be harder to disable. If you want more opportunities for fights the following will probably give it to you.
1) More numerous and closer bases: So you can fly to a base under attack quickly without having to take off in the vulch zone.
2) Make bases easier to capture: Allowing lighting quick capture and recapture by small groups of players who know what they are doing. This will split up the hordes of 30 or 40 as they attack several bases simultaneously.
3) Make it hard to disable bases: So the defenders can continue to fly and fight from a field under attack.
Right now we have something of the reverse situation. A couple of buffs can shut down the defenders at a base but it still seems to take quite a bit of time to capture it even though nobody or very few are defending it.
An MA that has a lot of small bitterly contested actions where bases are captured and recaptured rapidly will be a lot more fun than one in which 40 rooks milkrun a bish airbase while 40 Bish milkrun a rook airbase.
In this kind of MA a big organized force can split into groups and start taking bases 3 or 4 at a time. Small groups of defenders can actually do something useful and recapture fields quickly. An MA with a lot of captures and recaptures will give everybody lots to do regardless if they like jaboing, furballing, organizing big raids etc....
Hooligan
Pardon my ignorance, but could you expand on bases being "harder to capture" versus "harder to disable"?
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Laz... sorry buddy, but people are going to do what they want to do, how they want to do it, when they want to do it...
regardless of what you post here.
it must get frustrating to try to control the situation that, by nature, is uncontrollable.
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The one thing that determines whether or not you play is whether it is fun to log on or not. Organization or not, if it isn't fun, you won't play long. The game can never support one aspect of play to the exclusion of another, despite whatever zealots for any viewpoint espouse.
I think Lazs makes a decent point about the type of action we've seen lately, but Hangtime is also right about the dearth of missions. Somewhere in the middle is the fun we're looking for.
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Hmm, seems to me the problem is not really one of organization. It appears to be more a problem of volume. These maps are fine until we reach the 200+ point.
Funny, but moving the fields closer would be the LEAST effect solution. Do that and you end up with a lot more fields taken by sneak. 'Course, guess the map monkeys would like that...we could have 10 resets per day :D .
One thing that I do know for sure, HT is aware of the problem. There are plans to make changes in the future. Patience, neither Rome nor AH was built in a day:) .
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Damn, now I'm inna spot... on one hand, I see the glass being half full, no amount of organization can impact a batch of monkey-butt furballing slavering drooling furballers as they mob an area of the map... in defense or offence, the furball is just that... a furball.
In the midst of that furball of mayhem are a few guys giving status reports on the field under attack, a few guys in the tower react appropriately to the influx of meaningful data comming from the mayhem area and load up whats necessary to grab the field, and a capture occurs... eventually... in spite of the furball. This is called a 'seige'.
What i miss are 'captures'. Clean, effecient multi plane attacks that accomplish an objective with little fuss, minimum loss of mission members, balanced attacks that reward the mission player with what he's looking for, orginization, planning, stategy, combat, tactics, SKILL, points and a sense of accomplishing something in 4 minutes with 10-12 guys what 50 could not get done in 5 hours. Every kinda pilot gets what he might want outta a mission done well.. buffers can buff escorted to targets, goons have a chance of getting to the objective with top cover, cap fighters get to work the defenders down, JABO's get to wild weazel and slap down structures and GV's... something for everybody inna mission.
Lazs sees the little glimmer of organization thats beginning to emerge from the mayhem seiges as a threat to the furball... and I think Lazs's views are not inconsistent with what a large number of folks flying here want.. which is a furball. It's what they did 'over there' for years, it's what they wanna do, its what they are gonna do. Not many post here... I suspect that reading skillz and/or the time it takes from their buzy furball lives tend to interfere with their prime objective... mayhem. Doom with an A/C.
His glass is half empty. And hey.. thats cool. seems to me, either way, both glasses have about the same amount in 'em. The furballs are there.. hell look at the map. The strat is there... hell, look at the number of resets.. it ain't all one way or the other. Though it sure appears from my perspcetive that the MA is furball city as of late.
look.. don't pound on Lazs too hard.. the guy is not completely nuts.. not anymore than I am anyway. He''s also a heluva good stick, won't run from a fight, and will come pry a mission guy like me off yer butt if he see's you need help. Frankly, i'd rather have him on my wing than some score dweeb any day. The fact that I don't happen to enjoy just furballing don't mean I wanna end furballing.. furballing is part of the strat anyway.. if yah can't plan around or through it, yer gonna fail on the mission anyway.
I did get a kick outta the 'anti-hang' concept though.. lol.. talk about opposite viewpoints. wow. In the cockpit though.. lazs and i are a lot closer in outlook than most might think.. we both hate score cards, and we both favor our own objectives over a death any day. If I gotta sacrafice myself as bait to distract that last flack while somebody else kills it.. hey, I died, but the mission was accomplised. With lazs, he'll crank that bent wing ugly assed radial powered swabby tool around and HO a cannon equipped vulcher in a heartbeat with only a 10% chance of success. His only objection seems to be somebody like me swatted his hanger down so now he's gotta ride fer 7 minutes to come get my bellybutton the next time. :D
Good to hear the Rooks are adopting squad based mission detailing.. this is what we had in bishland a long while back and it kicked bellybutton for a long time. was a lotta fun. The knits too have had some good nights on the mission board by all accounts, and here in bishland we have fariz.. thank god. ;)
Let the furballers furball.. harden the fields, expand the map.. these won't detract much from strat, and they may improve the mix of gameplay.. I can't see it as hurting it. Moving the fields closer... I dunno if I can say that would improve the situation for the furballers.. the fields in close proximity now are the ones that fall first to the strat guys.. dunno if that would solve lazs's problem, but it sure won't make mine any worse.
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Haven't you guys figured it out yet?..All Lazs wants is a single field with 10k airstart, where all will launch from.
Daff
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One of these days I gotta get myself organizized.
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What a Thread! If Lazs is so way out there, why is he able rile up so many folks who agree that his ideas are totally whacked? Why don't the "Good Idea Threads" get 10% of the response that Lazs' Threads get? Lazs, I salute you for being able to push buttons! You are the Champion Antagonist!
eskimo
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daff... figured you might weazel your way in here while you're watching your ship go down. You don't know anything about me and never have. you have no opinion worth listening to. kinda typical of yu to take an effiminate little kick at me from the sidelines tho eh?
Guys.. I think closer fields, say as close as our closest ones are now, 3/4 of a sector, will spread out the fight but improve the quality of all the fights (for mid and early war planes at least) The map is too small? Too crowded??? LOL! the map is all but deserted for at least 50% of it's surface! closer fields will have people spreading out. Bigger maps will just mean more deserted area. futher fields will just mean that people will fear moving away from the safety of their ack unless they are in a huge MOB. people concentrate on a very few fields now.... spread out the fields and they will concentrate on even fewer fields leaving even more of the map deserted.
you make it so that the fights happen in a neutral zone halfway or so between fields and with maybe 5 locations were that is possible at all times and everyone will have a blast... make it so the mid war and slow planes have a chance to RTB without being harried by those in late war planes that can harrie them for over half a sector. dodging mustangs and d9's for half a sector or so get's old real fast for the slower guys... They think twice about heading a sector or more unless they have a certain thing the next time they up. With at least five pairs of close fields to chose from, the tyes of furs will vary. Mission guys can still plan and execute they just won't have a bunch of people tagging along who have no better place to be. Give the slower planes a viable place to have some good semi fair fights with a chance of RTB... No big deal.
hang.. not sure I see things as "half empty"... I see the arena getting less fun tho.. no argument there... I never claim to want to quit tho. I leave that to you "half full" guys.
eskimo... a lot of the guys that fear me simply fear the kind of fight that my ideas would allow. the kind of fight that they, or their chosen ride or both... don't do well in. That is perhaps true but I say that the can still cherry pick.. they may have to actually fight a little or lose their unarmed, low on fuel prey to his ack tho.
lazs
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I'm constantly surprised to see you guys advocate furballers should go to the training arena.
I can understand advocating the Duelling arena (while I don't agree 100%); although advocating something that's inoperative (and has inappropriate settings while in use) is disingenious; to say the least.
But advocating the TA for a place for bored killers to congregate is no service for the newbies nor trainees nor trainers.
Get a clue.
(edited for even worse than usual spilling)
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Rather ironic that the guys supporting gangbanging...err sorry..organization in the MA, also love gangbanging lazs in this thread.
Strange though, 20 vs 1 and where wit and logic is concerned it's still a fair fight. :)
eddiek,
Do you have to dry off your monitor after you post? Calm down bud.
bowser
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Nah... i don't wanna quit. Just lay back and do something else fer awile besides fly around in circles chasing someone who's chasing someone who's chasing the guy who's chasing me. Kinda like that snake that eats itself... or herding cats. Neither pastime is much fun fer me.
I was kinda surprised by yer post tho... I really don't think the furball is in much danger of being eradicated by organization in the MA.
Yes, you can keep the flowers and candy. ;)
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Apache:
Okay here goes my attempt at it :).
You can "disable" fields by killing the fighter and vehicle hangers. At this point nobody can launch defenders from the field. So.... If fighters can always roll from a friendly controlled field no matter what is down, then the field is harder to disable.
Here is a way to make fields easy to capture. If any aircraft successfully lands on an enemy field or a single goon makes it into the building, you capture it.
This would make undefended fields easy to capture, kill the ack and quickly land or drop one goon and it's yours. Easy to capture also means easy to recapture.
Using this system 2 or 3 guys can quickly take a field. Nobody is going to set up a mission with 50 guys to take one field because their work can be undone so easily (they will set up a mission to take 5 fields instead). The flip side is that if you see 4 guys hitting a field, a couple guys can roll from that field (or a nearbye field if they are sufficiently close) and have a good possibility of preventing the capture.
Right now the MA strat system seems to have the effect of concentrating forces into several large groupings that tend to go unopposed (i.e. who wants to try to stop 25 enemy all by themselves or with a buddy or two), and capturing fields takes concentrated effort. What the MA strat system should do is create an environment where many small fights take place and fields change hands rapidly.
Players who want the gratification of orchestrating large successful operations would still get to do it. But instead of capturing 3 fields in an evening, they might capture 15, lose 6 and recapture 4.
I'm not going to pretend that my suggestions for making the MA more fluid and action oriented are perfect. But I have no doubt that there are changes that could be made to create the desired effect.
Hooligan
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hang i was surprised by yours also.. I never claimed that I understood you but at least you are coherent at all times.
It just seemed odd to me when I read your post that the two of us have such a different idea of what is going on in the arena. This is all the more puzzling to me since (unlike a few of the others) I have never found your honesty to be in question.
I write it off to the "anything goes" aspect of the MA plane wise. What that does is create two seperate gameplays in one arena... never the two to touch... If you fly late war planes effectively (and you do).. Then you will never even get a chance to mix it up with some of us furballers and vice versa.
lazs
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"I think closer fields will spread out the fight"
"Bigger maps will just mean more deserted area"
"futher fields will just mean that people will fear moving away from the safety of their ack"
"people concentrate on a very few fields now.... spread out the fields and they will concentrate on even fewer fields leaving even more of the map deserted"
====
What I hear lazs saying is that the terrains are driving the MA to is current frenzied mass dweebery furball condition. He may very well be right, but Im having the sneaky suspician that there is simply more to it than the layout of any particular terrain. Applying lazs' common sense theory of terrain influenced gameplay, the three terrains we have in rotation are unique enough amongst themselves to drive the crowd in three uniquely different directions, yet all three terrains tend to end up with similar mass hordes (furballs) at a very limited number of battles, as such Im thinking that the majority of players are impacting the way battles are fought on the terrains, not the other way around.
In any event, perhaps HTC should create a smaller more compacted terrain to fit the mold presribed by lazs. Hell, anything is worth a try.
Y
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Im beggining to suspect Lazs is really HT's superhero persona, that comes out to lash back at us whining costumers when the Craggenmore is no more.
;) ;) ;) :D
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Lazs, man; I apologize fer hollering over the abyss about the lack of a bridge.
Frankly, I had a really lousy week; and my stress management tool was suddenly FUBAR. There are times I just wanna log on for an hour or so, find a good furball and some wingies and blow off some steam... other times i get all anal and decide to carpet bomb some part of the map into oblivion for half a day or so. lately it's been so damn nuttso in the MA, with friendlies bickering at friendlies, the KeWel DooDz were mobbing up my usually serene outlook to the point I was getting none of what I wanted from the sim... so I threw a temper tantrum on the BBS and blamed everybody else fer whats been buggin me.
usually i never lack for whatever it is I'm looking for.. all i gotta do is flip on funked's AWACS data link and make a decision.
lately, it's been like a freakin kiddie parlour 24/7 in the MA.. who wants to eat at chuckie cheeze every night with all the sqaulling kids totin full loads in their diapers? The MA seems to me to have changed dramaticly.. and whats obvious is the massive furball/gangbang swarm of monkey-butts in diapers thrashing around accomplishing nothin more lasting than fresh grafitti on the sides of hangers.
i feel better about it now... like a lot of folks have pointed out, the new crowd needs time to settle into the playpen. I'll work it out I'm sure, maybe switch off into some more 1 v 1's if they ever get the DA straightened out, get my hand in at helping with the CT or TA.. do something constructive and rewarding with my energy and not pound my head against the toejam smeared diapers covering the walls in the current MA. :)
What i found more surprising than anything else outta all of this was the similar reactions of a lotta guys that see the very same things... and they came to similar conclusions. And their solutions are pretty much the same as mine... give it a rest, do something else, the place is inna flux, and after awile, it'll be better.
At least; I hope so.
But that's my problem... and it's supposed fix. what about yours?
Perhaps a terrain that has a large depression towards the center.. below sea level.. rimmed around with canyon walls to create a bowl, with opposing fields on the cliff tops above. The late war stuff won't wanna go down in there, trying to grab back out will get 'em killed fer sure. A sort of 'furball gultch' in the terrain that has no strat value, the fields on the rim are permanaent, can't be captured. Would this promote and localize the kind of fight your looking for... think that might work?
Anyhow.. sorry if i started something that i shouldn't have... we all coulda gone fer a long time without me kickin the can over I guess.. sorry fer the crushed toes 'n all...
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the two funniest things in the thread:
"monkey-butt furballing slavering drooling furballers "
AND
lazs thinking people fear him.
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Originally posted by Hooligan
Apache:
Okay here goes my attempt at it :).
You can "disable" fields by killing the fighter and vehicle hangers. At this point nobody can launch defenders from the field. So.... If fighters can always roll from a friendly controlled field no matter what is down, then the field is harder to disable.
Here is a way to make fields easy to capture. If any aircraft successfully lands on an enemy field or a single goon makes it into the building, you capture it.
This would make undefended fields easy to capture, kill the ack and quickly land or drop one goon and it's yours. Easy to capture also means easy to recapture.
Using this system 2 or 3 guys can quickly take a field. Nobody is going to set up a mission with 50 guys to take one field because their work can be undone so easily (they will set up a mission to take 5 fields instead). The flip side is that if you see 4 guys hitting a field, a couple guys can roll from that field (or a nearbye field if they are sufficiently close) and have a good possibility of preventing the capture.
Right now the MA strat system seems to have the effect of concentrating forces into several large groupings that tend to go unopposed (i.e. who wants to try to stop 25 enemy all by themselves or with a buddy or two), and capturing fields takes concentrated effort. What the MA strat system should do is create an environment where many small fights take place and fields change hands rapidly.
Players who want the gratification of orchestrating large successful operations would still get to do it. But instead of capturing 3 fields in an evening, they might capture 15, lose 6 and recapture 4.
I'm not going to pretend that my suggestions for making the MA more fluid and action oriented are perfect. But I have no doubt that there are changes that could be made to create the desired effect.
Hooligan
Thanks my friend. I'm not a numb nuts after all it seems. Until your explanation, harder to capture was the end result of harder to disable but I see the distinct difference. Makes sense too I might add.
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You gotta admire Lazs for being dedicated to his cause. If you really want to see him go nuts, open a WWII Arena like Warbirds did.
There will be a great nashing of teeth. :D
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You gotta admire Lazs for being dedicated to his cause.
Yah know... in a kinda 'where the hell's my baseball bat, this guy's attitude needs adjusting' sort way, I do.
But since i can't quite get my hands around 'admire the guy' I can get a grip on 'respect the guy'. I think he's a heluva pilot to in that hawg, too. Like to see him and Torque go at it someday. I do know he could teach me stuff... but i'm not sure I wanna know what just yet.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Hehe Wilbuz. Over the week-end was an example, capturing 31, then hitting cities, HQ, then capping HQ to prevent goons from coming. Dog fites all over that area...laz would have had a good time.
Thats how I see it too.....strat raids CAUSE dogfights, but instead of fighting just because you want to, you are fighting to prevent the other bloke getting something he wants :)
mebbe I'm just a mean salamander, but to me thats a bonus....adds to the atmosphere.
Blue
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Well Laz, I'll be on your side.
Too much organization in the MA!! Decrease Organization Now!
Well that's about enough for me.
Nighty Nite!!
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Originally posted by Hangtime
I think he's a heluva pilot to in that hawg, too.
Yep Hang I agree, I got a kill on him a couple weeks ago, boy was that a mistake. For the next hour I was haunted by a Corsair, and a constant text messge saying "Lazs shot you down"
. Good thing I finnally went to bed, or else he would have scored enough points on me to buy AH. :p
I admire his skill, and his sand, but I don't like the constant bashing of the CT, and all who fly to a different drummer.
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Lazs,
Everything you desire from AH already exists... it is called DUELLING ARENA !!!!!
Why dont you ask all who like to fly like you to go there with you. You would have great time there!
AH crowd is so large already that it can be divided into 2 big arenas. MA has become a middleground that has some strategic aspects and some furball aspects. I propose that MA will be discontinued and its appropriate aspects will be transfered to CT and DA.
Then everyone can decide what kind of fun they want to have this time when they log to AH.
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"Lazs,
Everything you desire from AH already exists... it is called DUELLING ARENA !!!!! "
Which is closed.
Oh, sorry, I forgot your dialect.
WHichiS CLosED DUdE!!!!!!!!!
Clearer?
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ROFL!
This topic is clearly Whine Of the Week stuff
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"ROFL! This topic is clearly Whine Of the Week stuff"
It got an honorable mention on the Golden Globe Awards the other day!
Westy
p.s. "lately, it's been like a freakin kiddie parlour 24/7 in the MA.. who wants to eat at chuckie cheeze every night with all the sqaulling kids totin full loads in their diapers? The MA seems to me to have changed dramaticly.. " Oh. And welcome to AW-4.
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My plan to end world hunger and bring peace to the middle east (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43653)
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maybe bigger maps are the solution.
The furball geeks can have their one or two huge fights along each front while giving the strat junkies an opportunity to attack en masse, avoiding the furball in order to take bases. The front wouldn't change significantly but over time the side whose strat junkies are the best would have won the map and the furball prolly wouldn't be bothered until the very end when the map is reset.
If the furball geeks don't care about who wins the war and just want aerial battles then there shouldn't be a problem.
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hang... ya know... the canyons we used to have were really great and would really be an asset to the early war planes we are getting... I believe that I mentioned as much in a thread about "area" arenas. Eventually, we will have to have some kinda arena that seperates the early planes from the late. "Area" just seems the most logical.
And... I don't get it... you claim that I am a pessimist yet I come on just to have fun (and do) and in the same breath you talk about being depressed and seeing nothing but childish graffitii spreaders in all the new guys. I see the new guys as an ecclectic group. some are imature to the point of beintg hilarious... some are clueless as myuself about "features" and a percentage is ..... extremely good sticks learning a new sims FM. Get down and fight em... they are friggin GOOD. If you think I can recognize skill at all then believe me.... some of these guys are gonna be bellybutton kickers. As good as any I've seen in the past.
But then..... maybe I don't understand this whole "half empty half full" thing. And.... keep the damn useless flowers and naked pictures.... midnight is sending me a firearm and ammo!
lazs
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I had a hell of a time the other day shooting those bastards down dodging there gv fire over ther base. Thats always a blast for me, i cant deny that and wouldnt attempt to. nothing more fun then taking my jug down on the deck overcomming the TNB sissies.
To much organization does ruin the game for the casual player, they are nearly forced to play the others game when it comes down to it, on the recieving or delivering side of the spectrum. If its a enemy organized, as previously stated there must be a organized defense and if it is countrymen organized you can either join up with them or look for enemy straglers who are playing hide and seek.
i'll admit one night in joint ops i was about to fall asleep from lack of action(or to much "consumption":o), i seriously flew for 3 hours with seeing a single enemy. BUT i was dive bombing, ive flown fighter sweep before and that is good fun while it last. I say that because its not like a normal day in the MA where you can fight for hours in the same place, it will soon be capped and time to move on.. but its still a good time none the less.
like i said before, i like to play different games sometimes.. as of lately i can generaly be found smackin down low slow e-less cons, thats where i like um. Thats great fun. but its a good break to do some co-operative strikes occasionally.
Make fields harder to capture, i think adding another VH near the city and a larger city would do the trick, or atleast be a good start. We will just have to wait and see what 1.09 has in store..
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oops!
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Originally posted by lazs2
hang... ya know... the canyons we used to have were really great and would really be an asset to the early war planes we are getting... I believe that I mentioned as much in a thread about "area" arenas. Eventually, we will have to have some kinda arena that seperates the early planes from the late. "Area" just seems the most logical.
lol... Lazs idea of the great divide that keeps the early, mid and late war planes away from each other reminds me of Author Conan Dolye's "The Lost World"
There, far to the east, the planes of yesteryear fly about with not a care in the world, totally unaware that the world around them has evolved.
BTW, Lazs... what is with the early war planes that you want so much? just cause they turn more? I mean, why not play Red Baron then, they turn even more. I know you once said something about the late war planes are speeding the game up more. Isn't that better? You can get to the enemy faster.
If the planes are even slower, the fields would have to be even MORE close together, or you would start whining they are too far and alt-monkeys ruin it, or something like that.
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Originally posted by Seeker
"Lazs,
Everything you desire from AH already exists... it is called DUELLING ARENA !!!!! "
Which is closed.
Oh, sorry, I forgot your dialect.
WHichiS CLosED DUdE!!!!!!!!!
Clearer?
Seeker,
Duelling Arena was PRETTY MUCH open when I just visited it. It was unpopulated though.
Maybe this is just some issue of the pea sized brains of some devoted furballers... :p ...just like the case with your post above.
If you have difficulties reading this, ask some foreign tourist to read it aloud for you...
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midnight.... let's reverse the question... Why do you insist on flying a late war untouchable plane against early war planes? Because the late war planes require more patience than talent?
Comeon.... what's the deal? you think that it is just fine for you to ruin the fun of early war planes by butting in where your not wanted? What? You don't realize your not wanted? LOL What's wrong with seperating em? afraid nobody will bother to play with you? Bet you didn't like "canyon world" because you couldn't B&Z as well. Face it.... you're not even in the same game as most players.
And, I know it must be an oversite on your part but...... I still haven't gotten my gun and ammo. do you have a tracking number?
oh.... and my daughter said that "midnight" was a very unpopular ponie in the "my pretty ponie" series no one wanted to play with it.
lazs
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At least ya'll have the Linda Blair view so you don't have to listen to Lazlo's incessant whining about THAT.
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somebody listened gadfly/lizking "less than `100 kills in three years'.
lazs
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So now we have to reach a minimum amount of kills to be allowed to post in the forum...
Please remind that this was suggested by the guy who called the CT players 'elitists'....
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laz what you are asking for is a new map!
why dont you just say 'HTC can we have a map where the bases are closer....(add your drivel here) please?'
if they produced the map you would have your set up and HERES THE POINT so would everyone else
As long as maps were continually evolving or new ones introduced like they are now everyone will remain happy, its just a matter of overall customer patience that decides how long they stay a subscriber if they want a different type of map/setup.
You come in the BB and start all your threads with an attack on its members.Now you have decided to attack the very heart of online gaming for me personally.EVERY ONLINE GAME that i have played gets twice as good when your teammates jump in and help you out.Theres nothing better than leaping into a fight and spraying the enemy shooting at your team mates in a first person shooter or clearing a country mates tail in AH and being thanked for it.
ya get that 'glowy' feelin' inside:D :p ;) :cool:
oh i forgot, laz is too selfish to enjoy any form of cooperation right?
Laz just ask for HTC to build a furball map. request it as you are a paying customer after all and everyone has a say i think.
HTC please let laz have his map, maybe even let him design one on paper?
maybe laz will be right but i doubt it, maybe if he does equal amounts of near and far fields it could possibly work but i personally think, just like his "neutral zone" theory (laz is a trekkie! :)) lazs maps will smell of HORSEMANURE :p
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Originally posted by hazed-
oh i forgot, laz is too selfish to enjoy any form of cooperation right?
With all due respect hazed, you are very incorrect in that statement.
Ive "had it out" with lazs quiet a few times.. name calling, smack talking to say the least. but i can tell you if your in trouble and he or his squadies that i know of are near you are getting a 6 clear from them, or ATLEAST a 6 call. Which is more than i can say for 90% of the people playing in the MA.
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Lazs.....
Ya know, I read what you write and wonder how you come to some of your conclusions.
Folks who drive late war, fast aircraft(51's, 47's, La7's), in some way have no right to not only fly those aircraft, but fly them as they themselves choose to fly them, wherever they want to fly them
Another observation is the fact that you would call the CT guys elitests, while adopting an early war, how dare you ruin my fun, elitest attitude yourself.
Here is my take....
I fly the way I want to fly....do not care what anyone thinks about it.....kill as many enemy aircraft as possible(including early war aircraft).....and will continue to do this until the Good Lord takes me away or I just get bored and do something else with my time.
Now, I really do hope that HTC can design this product in a way which meets the majority of players fashions. It will only strengthen a sim which selfishly I hope will continue to grow. They are not far off as it is....it is always a MINORITY of players who are dissatisfied....can't make everyone happy kinda thing applies here as well as real life.
I guess what is most amusing to me, is that while you can find fault with how others play this game and openly criticize them in this forum, I , nor anyone else I know, ever gives a thought to you or anyones else for that matter, in reference to how you or they might choose to to enjoy themselves.
The fact that you have ideas for gameplay and express them in this forum is great....like I previously had said, I hope everyone has fun and this product grows in a direction suitable to the masses. However, to malign others who do not agree with you, well, in my opinion, ain't a good thing.
I don't know you...never met you....yet I bet you enjoy yourself flying this sim just like I do. You probably work hard and welcome the chance to just be a kid for a few hours like myself. Why not just relax and let HTC do their thing...I have a feeling that the feel of the MA will soon change for the better of us all and you and I will have had little to do with the direction which HTC has chosen to take.
In closing, you should come look me and mine up next time online...I think you will be pleasantly suprised at where you find us and how we chose to fight you:)
Cyas Up!
(http://www.13thtas.com/rudesig.jpg)
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Like this thread needs another post
One obvious conclusion which I havent seen addressed in this thread is just the plai ol size of the arena, we need a bigger map period. Then everyone gets what they want. Also terrains like mindanao need to be consigned to the archives forever. What a waste over half the map is taken up by useless sea where no-one ever goes except, altmonkey buffs!
Gremlin.
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rude... i don't know how you reach your conclussions about what I want or what I am doing from reading (if you are indeed reading) what I post. Just to clarify one of your points... I do not think that you should not be allowed to fly P51's. I do feel tho that people who would fly early and mid war planes deserve to be protected from you if they desire.... An area arena would allow you to fly 51's 24/7 but.... only in the late war area against other late war planes of relatively equal ability. an early war plane could still up in the late war area if he wished.... I'm sure late war guys would not object? You simply could not spoil the early war guys chance at having a good time online for an hour or so after a hard days work. If you wanted to fly in the early war area then yu would have to fly one of the early war planes just like everyone else. I don't see how yu would have a problem with that. You must admit that it is a bit of an embarassment to see 51's and lag7 and D9's competing with lesser planes.
I myself feel the -1a that I fly is far superior to say a 202 or a zeke or a few others but it is at least a "medciocre" plane. Most of my kills are against superior ac and for fun I mix it up with the better turn and burn rides in their own invoronment... Later planes are not really capable (at least in my hands) of doing that... I would not mind flying it in a mid war only area. I would love to fly a p40 or f4f in an early area. I don't have much use for a late war area but I would like to fly a -4 against 51's and such on occassion.
Right now it's anything goes and..... the further the fields are apart the more lopsided the late war advantage is. Most who advocate blindness and boredom are late war afficianados or luftweenies... They can't turn so they want to negate that advantage. closer fields would just allow the current arenas plane choices to be viable a bit longer.... A quick fix.. but.... nothing will save the setup we have if we want early war planes short of an area arena or arenas that are "toggle", no "leave one arena and restart in another" simply toggle the maps, click any arena's (early, mid or late war) field and bam! you are there.
The alternative is RPS and I know that is more repugnent to a lot of people. Mustangs 4 days a month? Seperate arenas don't work... Well... maybe they would if they were seamless like the "toggle" idea but other than that... I know you're smart enough to see the ded end that anything goes is and how the perk system has just painted the planeset into a corner so far as early war planes are concerned. I also know that you are smart enough to see the inherent (built in) unfairness of mustangs against early and mid war planes. Apples and Oranges... Great for a fruit salad but piss poor for a game.
lazs
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Starting with the topic of this thread. Sorry to here some dont like organisation in the MA. Its there and its going to be hard to stop. I guess to stop it, you must remove Radios, Check 6, and broadcast static on Voice coms. ;D
Yes the Rooks are more organised, You want to blame somebody for this, Blame me, Blame GunrCAF, Blame BFD, Blame GhostDancer and many of the Rook Squad Guys. This Goes back a couple years ago, on that evil AW Sim. I started running Joint Ops then, I invited many to join in, We got organised and formed some great friendships.
Enter AH, Well, Many of the Organised squads landed in Rook-ville and Gunner, Myself (GrimmCAF), BDF started working again along these lines. GhostDancer was right there also. Yes there are others too, with many great contributions. Im sorry but I cant list everyone. :D
We had strong contacts with former great AW Squads, and It was easy to get things rolling. Many of the fantasic AH squads began to help us also, bringing things along. The brith of the RJO.
On to the Situation of Capture.
Perhaps, hardening or softening Targets isnt the way to go. I suggest, we examine once again Bombers. Perhaps they are too acurate. Maybe they need to be less acurate but have increase Bomb blast damage. I think the Map room in the Town is a good situation, but perhaps its the towns that need to be Hardened.
As for Maps.
The Maps do have a big effect on gameplay. Perhaps a map needs to be created with certain areas, with many tightly grouped airfeilds. These Areas are going to be difficult to take if defended. I dont know if making all the feilds closeris the answer, but its worth looking at. Still, This is something that can be worked on.
Lastly the Main Arena is setup for landgrabbing. The primary objective is to Win the War. So why be surprized when Ganging, Landgrabbing and organise happen. Its a result of the Game.
If you want the MA to become Furballing, Simply remove all Strat and capture. Perhaps a small fighter area in the center that cant be captured might be better.
Rook and dang proud of it! :D
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Lazs you make me laugh... :)
You should take up a career in comedy.
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Actually Knights were first country doing big organized attacks when we still had old beta-arena.
I still remember those "Banzai!" yells in ch.1 when Zig was putting up mission after mission :)
This pic was also from one of those missions; afair we had only 2 or 3 fields left in the SE corner of map but with missions running we were soon doing just fine :)
(http://www.kolumbus.fi/staga/pic4.jpg)
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oh btw there were loads of F4u-1C's coming with us (they were free then ;) ) but we just had so nice "finger-four" I had to grab that pic :)
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Just an opinion, but i don't think the problem lies in organization, or lack thereof, It's the maps, and how they are laid out.
Mainly, a while back, a lot of people were complaining about not having historical maps for the MA, and a few historical maps were made, some even getting approval. (I.E. Mindanao, Baltic, Etc.) Unfortunately, these maps are not very balanced in as far as the 3 sided war/ strat features in place are concerned. I think you would see a more improved game were there to be a more balanced map from which to play by. As much as i hated it after playing there for a while*, i think the closest map we have currently to a balanced one, where you would be able to take advantage of every strat facet, and even furball if you wanted, would be the isles terrain. I never saw for lack of a furball on the isles terrain, so the furballers would be happy, and there would be opportunities galore for CV ops, and island hopping raids.
One thing else i will add, way back when i first started flying i only used to fly in the "free" arena in WB ($2.00 an hour being my main reason for not flying there anymore), and i loved that it reset weekly. why not apply that to the terrain rotation here? rather than a reset dependant on 1 side "Winning" By all means rotate countries around the map when 1 side wins, that way no 1 country can have the "terrain advantage" all the time, but don't rotate the maps themselves when winning.
my slightly more than 2 cents.
*My reason for hating it then, was we were stuck on it for what seemed forever ;) I seem to recall many posts begging for a "reset" for a new map
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Wow... this thread went from semi-rational posting, to semi-irrational, to totally irrational, back to semi-irrational.. then it skipped straight to a rational discussion... wheee what a ride reading this was. :D
I think Lasz has a point when he talks about early war planes being "cornered". I'd like to fly some of the earlier stuff and do sometimes. I'd just like to be able to fly them against something that can't zoom climb 2x as good as me :) (yeah i know i know, dueling arena. But when are there more than 3 or 4 people in there?)
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buzzbait... my ideas for making an arena more fun for the majority are funny to you but the whole CT is not? Hmm... Well maybe it is more pitiful than funny.
Whatever happens... closer fields would be a good thing. They would especially be a good thing for early war planes. I just don't see how anyone would argue that.
We are getting more early war planes. Organization is just the symptom. The disease is far apart fields that are easy to disable but hard to capture. Milkrunning would be countered more often with closer fields. There is ALLWAYS action at the closest fields and the cv's when they are close to enemy. We have fields that are about 3/4 of a sector and they are VERY popular.. We have othe parts of the map that are friggin deserted! Those who would claim that the map is too small or too crowded or the fields too close together are simply wrong. The map may have too much population density in some areas but more fields that were 3/4 of a sector would spread that out.
The shorter flights and increased number of places with action at em would help the dreary strat guys too.. They would not be as noticable nor... would they be percieved as such a threat. People would also not have as much time to react.
desillies.... gadfly haveing less than 100 kills in three years is relevant to a discussion on what would be fun for the majority in an arena. It should be obvious that if an arena were designed for his ilk that there would not be a lot of profit in it. The CT would look like a Roman orgy by comparisson.
lazs
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Lazs,
[list=1]
1. I wouldn't disregard an opinion because the poster shows poor skill....some dweebs may have good ideas, while some particularly good sticks.......I'm sure you'll agree.....
2. Even if the guy is 5 days into his free 2-weeks, I will read the post. Sometimes, a fresh look can bring a really original solution to a problem.....you can't dispute that....
[/list=1]
(Boy, how does this sound patronizing.... :rolleyes: )
Now please make better use of all the time you're spending on this BB and design YOUR map. If HTC uses it, we'll see who were right.
EDIT: btw, profit for HTC doesn't depend from the number of kills, but from a fixed amount of money every player sends to HTC each month (makes me wonder who is paying the bill for you...). So Gadfly is as much a customer as you here....
I'm out of this thread (don't worry, I won't slam the door).
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midnight.... not to be too much of a bother but... I still haven't recieved the gun and ammo that you promised. do you need an FFL number?
lazs
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Heyas Lazs!
In my opinion, there is only one best solution....RPS.
Oh my!!!! I said it!!! Well, I fly only the P-51, and if I can live with having to wait to fly it, I would think others could wait for their rides as well.
RPS did not work in WB's due to the fact we all paid $2.00/hr and wanted to fly what we wanted, when we wanted...it cost too much money not to have the choice. To be truthful, it didn't bother me even in WB's.
Here in AH, things are cheap....variety is a good thing...we all are spoiled with this I want to fly what I want when I want thingie. Everyone could have fun flying early, mid and late war when the time came.
Will RPS be seen in AH....absolutely not. I know they think it will not work as do many others in the community. Just my .02 worth.
I think all of this tweaking of the MA is a giant exercise in futility which will yield very little. This product is what it is and to your suprise perhaps, the majority is happy gettin to do what they do. It's just us old farts who are looking for bliss:)
Later!
(http://www.13thtas.com/rudesig.jpg)
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Originally posted by Rude
Heyas Lazs!
In my opinion, there is only one best solution....RPS.
Oh my!!!! I said it!!! Well, I fly only the P-51, and if I can live with having to wait to fly it, I would think others could wait for their rides as well.
RPS did not work in WB's due to the fact we all paid $2.00/hr and wanted to fly what we wanted, when we wanted...it cost too much money not to have the choice. To be truthful, it didn't bother me even in WB's.
Here in AH, things are cheap....variety is a good thing...we all are spoiled with this I want to fly what I want when I want thingie. Everyone could have fun flying early, mid and late war when the time came.
Will RPS be seen in AH....absolutely not. I know they think it will not work as do many others in the community. Just my .02 worth.
Well, it depends on what you mean by RPS.
I think if you do some searching, you may find Pyro has mentioned a Rolling Perk Set in the past. I think that has great potential. That way you can always fly your favourite ride, it just costs more perkies early in the game. Hmmm, I think they might have tried that in the CT though.... I'd be interested to see what it would do in the main.
We'll see I guess... but I do think that Pyro and HT have more investment, information, and experience to make these kinds of decisions than the lot of us all put together. The've been doing this as their livelyhood for quite a while folks... and they are still around and kicking butt. How about trusting them a bit... I know I'm damn glad they are making the decisions in AH.
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And Rude is definitely an old fart. ;)
Didn't know that was you Ice till I was chatting with Sax about the TOD event this friday and asked him if you guys were the descendents of the 13th TAS that I flew with back in 1996 and AW2.
Good to see you still up and annoying people. ;)
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As for the MA you are right it is what it is until HiTech decides to change things. My outlook and most of my squad is that we will adapt to it and fly in the way that generates the most fun and interest for us.
If they went RPS we would adapt to that. If the bases our made harder it just means we have more fun figuring out how to take them out and smash the opposing country. If strat changes we will figure out how to best use it (right now we used it to support base captures and do tactical bombing of facilities along with hitting strat facilities), etc.
We and others organized large ops because we got tired of being beat up by large ops. Basically the game evolves and comes in waves with different styles of play and cultures evolving. With 1000s of people playing you have to accept it and adapt to things as best you can and hope for HiTech to listen at time and find solutions to glaring problems.
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Heyas Ghost :) You the 13th TAS Ghost of old??? If ya are, how ya been? We will have to chat and catch up...maybe I'll call Doom and send him after Lazs...that would be a sight hih:D Your attitude is the best kind to have...can't fight progress eh?:)
Leph....
I agree....I'm just saying, most are happy as it is...it is the very small minority of old players who find the most to complain about...with the exception of myself, of course:)
(http://www.13thtas.com/rudesig.jpg)
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Nope .. can't fight it. Can try to trick progress into going where you would like to see it go though. ;) You just can't let it know that you are tricking it, otherwise it can get a bit stubborn. ;)
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Rude,
Yep I am the Ghost Dancer that flew with you guys back in 1996. Have used the same from the very beginning of flying AW back in 1993 .. although I can't remember my tail number off the top of my head.
I remember flying with you (Ice, Doom, and Shark Bait). Was good times and I remember shutting down whole countries during our squad nights.
Good to see the squad has survived. I even still have the old squad patch from back then:
(http://www.dgideon.org/images/13thtas.gif)
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I had to post didn't I ? heh
IMO the distance between fields does not affect squat.
We have different maps with different distances between fields.
Still furballers and strat guys. NO DIFFERENCE.
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rude.. not sure a rolling plane set would be popular. I like it fine but most don't seem to. Send "doom" after me? LOL ... not ol doomie? By all means sick em on me!
Rolling "perk" ACK!!! worst of all worlds. How is that fair or fun for the new guys? Please don't tell me it gives em a "goal" toejam... they got enough "goals" as new guys. How come they need "goals" but the old farts don't?
lazs
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Hiyas ghost:)
Man that squad art is old...forgot about it altogether:)
Hope you are doing well....you need to change squads man...we have a great group.
We had alot of fun back then...Now we're just old and wealthy:) I told the guys about shutting down entire countries, not sure they believed me...Kinda hard to do that here.
Take care and look me up when you're online.
Cyas Up!
(http://www.13thtas.com/rudesig.jpg)
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Originally posted by loser
However, there is no greater joy for me than when a call comes out from a countryman (eg Busher :) ) that a base is being pummeled i land as quickly as possible and go to the base that is taking it in the brown. Why? because that is some of the most fun i ever have in the sim. Not only do you have the thrill of being the underdog, but if the base is held with a few selfless and score ignorant teamates, you have the feeling of a job well done, of beating the odds of a huge attack etc... To me that is ten times the feeling of a hat-trick sortie in a fur-ball.
B]
Agree. But it's just a personal thing. At the begining of every tour I promise myself I won't do it. Cos as we all know, I am obsessed with my ranking and K/D ratio. :D I really do want to become a calculating, steely eyed ace, not a manic Spit V or Hurricane driver who rarely gets above 100ft.
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Originally posted by Staga
This pic was also from one of those missions; afair we had only 2 or 3 fields left in the SE corner of map but with missions running we were soon doing just fine :)
(http://www.kolumbus.fi/staga/pic4.jpg)
Very nice indeed. As an old :( RL military pilot I would love to see more of this. Squads rtb with a proper run in and break? Drool.
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Originally posted by eddiek
Can anyone else reading this imagine what it would be like if Lazs had control of the game? After he implemented all his ideas and wishes, what would he have? ;) Answer: An arena populated by one or two people, maybe not that many.
Yeah, I've been there before. That's warbirds :)
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I have, as many here, automaticaly assumed laz2 was a bit off balance.
I don't think that anymore. Surprised?
I never have been an ultra reality freak except when it comes to the mechanics of flying these birds, but I have always enjoyed a "pretty realistic" rendition of what I "thought" went on in WWII air combat.
Two things to consider here...
1) Is the reality of air combat, mano a mano, plane vrs plane what you really want or...
2) Is it the strategic elements that actually won the war that you want to fantasize about when you play this sim/game?
Each has it's place. I find the air combat portion of it more satisfying however, unlike our freind laz, I like to do it in the CT (untill this week). I do prefer to fly longer distances and fight historical opponents. I don't really care much for strat myself, but that is me.
I can see where strat can ruin the game for those who really only prefer to do air to air combat. I can also see the need to provide "strat" for those who like that aspect of it.
Is there a place where all can do what they want? Maybe... it depends on how willing each side of this question is ready to compromise to allow all to have "their" form of fun.
I personally don't see how it would be possible for HTC to cater to all those involved without leaving someone out with a bent nose. What they have managed to do is provide the tools for all to do what they want. It is up to us, the players, then to accomodate each other.
Calling each other names and pointing fingers never set well with me, for one thing, if I was pointing my finger at someone at least three of those fingers were pointing back at me.
Is there a "real" solution? I don't think so, not in a Main Arena. I think it would take multiple arenas to make everyone happy. How many can HTC afford to put up and still make money?
Guys (I use this for both genders) get real. This is only a game. HTC has done what I think is a wonderful job of building it. They have provided us with an exorbitant amount of tools to have fun with, let's do just that, have fun:).
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The tour lazs posted this he spent 38 hours in the MA. This tour he has spent just over 7. The ironic thing is the MA has become more and more like lazs claims he wants it to be.
Be carefull what you wish for.. you just might get it.
AKDejaVu
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Well I see a lot of gang banging, but not much furballin' in the MA these days. Big difference.
Gang banging usually happens when some strat types overrun a field with numbers, though I'm not sure how much strategy is involved in that.
bowser
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Arena split in TWO parts , separated by montain range 60000ft high ( or whatever it takes to keep people from crossing it )
One part has your current MA flavor type planeset.
Other part has the limited planetset ( RPS maybe ? )
All countries have fields on both sides and if any contry is limited to less then 2 fields on EITHER side of the map, war is won ( just like in MA now - but would apply to both field sets ).
Would allow you to fly either flavor without switching arenas, and have strat interact.
Attached a raw map :) Yah, i know i can't draw for toejam
:p
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You know that right? I make a 'whine post' about how sick and tired I am of getting gangbanged. Your response is along the lines of.. "u sux0r and u r @ Luftwhiner"...
But here is a whoopee thread by... you. And while I haven't got the patience to read through 3 pages of "Lazsterbation", from what I did read you think only ORGANIZED gangbangs are bad.. I.E. capturing fields. If a fight is 6 or 7 on 1, you'll dive in no matter how bad the odds are.. for the enemy pilot of course. At least that is how you are coming across to this particular 'Luftwhiner'.
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ccvi - u post punter. This topic is dead. Seeing your new and all, learn to keep the discussions current.
What you've done is a 'post punt' - that is to bring a dead/dying topic back to life.
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"The tour lazs posted this he spent 38 hours in the MA. This tour he has spent just over 7. The ironic thing is the MA has become more and more like lazs claims he wants it to be.
Be carefull what you wish for.. you just might get it.
AKDejaVu"
be careful about your assumptions deja. I would also like to try out the BOB CT. Life does on occasion get in the way.
urchin.. you were acting like a crybaby and a martyr. I believe that it is much more productive to attack the source of imbalance (the strat and fluffs) than to whine about being persecuted on a personal level or... complain about human nature.
I feel that an "area" arena with an early war area that had close fields would give everyone an opportunity to get their furball fix whenever the mood struck without affecting the talentless strat potatos and timid sky accountants. Seemless ability to chose type of fight would be a good thing.
lazs