Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Wanker on January 23, 2002, 09:56:45 AM
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Way back in the old golden days of Warbirds, we used to have to land on the runway and exit to capture a field. The addition of the JU-52 and it's troops eliminated that neccessity.
Frankly, I miss those days of having to land the field to capture it. There's something so impersonal about dropping troops to capture a field. I remember how hair raising it was to try to slow down enough to land safely, all the while risking getting vulched as you touched down.
I wonder if bringing back that system would help increase the fun factor? Back in those days, an organized squad could fly behind enemy lines, destroy a field with buffs or heavy fighter-bombers, then land for the capture. No need for anyone to bring a goon.
Yep, those were the days. Even with 2D graphics, it was a blast. Long live v1.11r2!
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Heh... the F4U was especially good at controlled crash landings.
How about requiring an "inverted double hangar fly-through" for capture. We could sell tickets in the tower. :)
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Hehe, banana, "he'll" be along shortly to follow up on your post. :D
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Well, not ever doing Warbirds online, the "field capture of old" for me was flying an AH C47 into a smoking wreck of a field, good guys and bad guys all over the place and landing way too hot hoping not to wreck.
Many times the bad guys got me but the few times we actually pulled it off were some of the BEST AH times I ever had.
Keep the Gooney Bird.
Put the maproom back on the field please.
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I'm with Sunchaser.
SOB
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Can't you see guys that can fly magically through a mob without being hit *cough**cough* plopping their ride on the runway at 200mph, gear up and sliding to a stop before ack can get 'em? I can.
Goonies mean you have to prepare a field for capture, not just knock down the ack and bring a fighter down in a controlled crash. I flew WB's and DoA under this system, and I never cared too much for it. Too many guys can do what I mentioned above, and really excel at it.
Drop ack, spiral that B-26 down from 8k and pancake on the runway? Instant capture! Imagine the rear bases falling one after another. Waaaay too wrong direction for my tastes.
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In "Dawn of Aces" the field captures are still done by landing at the field. Those fields fall just as quickly and with the same amount of frustration for the defender.
I think field captures are just going to be a problem unless AH either had actual defending troopers that the airdropped troopers had to eliminate (shades of "Master of Orion II") or the number of troops required to take the field was tuned.
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"so impersonal "
And so easy.
Make them land it outside the town! :) I'd vote for that change in a heart beat. And any damage to the C47 results in some "drunk" casualites - depending on the damage severity due to enemy fire or a bad landing. More damage = more casualties = more C47/M3's required to run in replacements to the scene
Westy
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Agree
Put the Map Room back on the field. As it is now, down 3 acks and a city and woof, you own the field. In the old days, it was a real nail biter to have all the acks down, hangars down and hope the goon would be there any moment
Miss those days ;)
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"Field capture of old" would be good Ol' Air Warrior...Which required 1.5 goons to capture a base...I would like to see something like...
Small Base:8 Troops
Med Base :10 Troops
Large Base:12 Troops
Port Base :8 Troops
VH Base :6 Troops
Might add to strat..
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i miss capturing field the old way.
i'd be all for putting maproom back, though i bet htc is gonna have some mroe stuff in wait for us with 1.09
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Landing your plane for field capture was a blast. For a "fun" arena like MA it is perfect. But HTC have committed a lot of resources to troop carrying aircraft and vehicles so I doubt we'll see it.
Sure was fun in WB though. My favorite was throwing the P-38 into a sideways slide to brake it on the runway. :)
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I would certainly like to see changes that make fields easier to capture. Lots of quick captures and recaptures by small forces would certainly make the MA less stagnant than it sometimes becomes now.
Hooligan
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Originally posted by Sunchaser
Well, not ever doing Warbirds online, the "field capture of old" for me was flying an AH C47 into a smoking wreck of a field, good guys and bad guys all over the place and landing way too hot hoping not to wreck.
Many times the bad guys got me but the few times we actually pulled it off were some of the BEST AH times I ever had.
Keep the Gooney Bird.
Put the maproom back on the field please.
Jup, keep the goonie birds, put the map room back on the field, and get Sunchaser back in his goony bird :D
There's alot of good drivers out there, but I don't think anyone could sneak a goony around like Sun could
bro
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This ain't Warbirds.
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One of my best memories of field caps of old was one time a freindly b26 deacked a field. I had a goon parked a couple of clicks away. I upped a headed for the field only to discover that it was crawling with enemy. In the sure knowledge that I had already been spotted, I headed for the canyons, played a game of hide and seeks with 3 bad guys. Finally I managed to sneak in the back door with dozens on enemy in the immediate area, all eyes must have been on the b26 overhead, cause no-one spotted me. After we got the field the ack reupped and shot down 7 enemy planes all given to me as prox kills.
Ah yes thems were da days:)
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"This ain't Warbirds."
Amen to that!!
And thank God this isn't Air Warrior either.
Westy
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I think it would be fun to be able to land on a field as an option to troops. Each plane to land and exit counts as 1 troop, so 10 planes to capture a field, or 1 goon at the town. All town building down either way.
eskimo
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The biggest problem for me is the fact that you can diabble a field for fighters so easily and yet never capture it. The field stays useless until it comes back up `15 or so minutes later.
The fields need to be able to up fighters till the bitter end and then the capture should be simple and easy. Say... Allow fitghters to up untill all hangers are down and add a couple of hangers besides.
lazs
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Do any of you really want to see a lone buff hit an unguarded rear base, de-ack the field, then spiral down and skid to a stop on the runway for a capture?
Can you not remember what this type of gameplay meant? The tactic was to drop ack and swarm the defense with ditchers. All it took was one guy to successfully ditch on the field and it was yours. "Suicide ditchers"- there's an oxymoron, but it's what you would see. I can't believe the realism crowd will go for that.
Now I could do it, and I could have fun, but for those complaining of how gamey the game is now I can't see how this would improve things.
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Well Kieren, as one of the "realism crowd", I have to admit that I've given up on adding any realism to the MA. I know Pyro and HiTech pretty well now, so I know it's not gonna happen. So for my realism fix I fly the TOD's and scenarios in the SEA.
But since the MA is just a free for all furball arena, I don't see anything wrong with going back to the landing capture. Sure, it's dweeby, that's the nature of the MA. The whole thing is a dweebfest.
So, my answer to you is "yes", I'd be happy to be able to capture fields in the rear like the old days. It would as least get rid of the stagnation that exists now.
Seeker, thanks for that brilliant retort, but if you would care to discuss my suggestion instead of the game where it originated, then let's talk.
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Kieren, forgot to say that I would not like to see a "single" buff be able to capture a field. It should take more people than that. How many more, I don't have the foggiest.
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Now let's reflect here...
Back a few versions ago, we had the old field layouts...2 fighter hangars side-by-side and the one bomber hangar on most of the fields. Folks complained it was too easy for a single buff to wipe them out in one pass, so, the field layout was changed.
Now, here in 1.08, the fields don't even HAVE to be touched to capture a base. You guys wanted a more difficult base capture but I think it went a step backwards. 2 good JABO pilots can wipe out a city and 1 goon can capture it while the bad guys are still sitting in the tower picking out an airplane to fly.
But, since so many were annoyed with the fact a bomber can bomb, the strat was changed so that a Operation Rolling Thunder bombardment strike could be wiped away with the ease of one little goon. The way the game is setup now, you really do not even need any buffs to acheive field captures. Taking the bases down before capture is more or less just goon-protection from fighters upping. Vehicle hangars are usually a good distance away from the cities, so they aren't nearly the threat they used to be when the maproom was just a few hundred yards away from them in the old layout.
I like the idea of multiple goons to capture a field. I think the whole concept of one goon re-upping an entire airbase is pretty silly, just based on the visual damage the base has sustained versus how much a C47 can carry.
If anything, the field capture is vastly easier now, just the strat has changed to eliminate the effect the buffs have in the game.
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"Do any of you really want to see a lone buff hit an unguarded rear base, de-ack the field, then spiral down and skid to a stop on the runway for a capture?"
No.
I want to see C47's ONLY have the ability to effect capture AN they habd to land to do it. (M3's and LVT2s also of course) And the landing would have to be intact for a full delivery of it's load of troops. Had a rough landing? Loose "drunks" in proportion to the damage. Lose one of the landing gear and a "drunk" or two got broken ankles and can't get out of the C47. :) Crash? Lose 6 (or more) out of the 10. The new base-town layout is not an issue at all imo. If anything it adds to AH.
Westy
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"Seeker, thanks for that brilliant retort, but if you would care to discuss my suggestion instead of the game where it originated, then let's talk"
Talk with you? To be met with blanket statements that A) this ain't Airwarrior, and B) this isn't the way "we" do things "here"?
If you miss WB that much, go fly it.
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Ok Seeker, I'll talk slowly this time. I am asking that HTC implement an old capture rule used by another Sim that they created. I'm not asking for them to bring the whole sim back.
And if there are some good aspects of AW that you think should be added to AH, I'd be willing to give them a try. I just don't know AW at all, having never flown it.
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banana said " But since the MA is just a free for all furball arena, I don't see anything wrong with going back to the landing capture. Sure, it's dweeby, that's the nature of the MA. The whole thing is a dweebfest.
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not that I disagree with your field capture idea but.. The above quote seems odd coming from you since you fly very rarely and whedn you do the "dweebs" in the "dweebfest" arena kick the crap outta ya.
lazs
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Attack the subject matter, not the person, Laz. Haven't you learned yet?
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"Ok Seeker, I'll talk slowly this time. "
Ok. So will I. K. O. T. H.
Seeing as how you rip off WB events so well, how come you've made such a mess of an AW one?
Do you really think HTC are unaware of how WB capture works?
And as for your generalising that the 92% or so of HTC's paying customers are merely taking part in a "dweebfest"; perhaps AH just isn't what you're looking for.
Try the training arena. Or H2H. Or WWIIOL. I hear that's really real. Really.
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not that I disagree with your field capture idea but.. The above quote seems odd coming from you since you fly very rarely and whedn you do the "dweebs" in the "dweebfest" arena kick the crap outta ya.
lazs
My bad, Lazs. I didn't mean the term "dweeby" in a negative sense. I should've said "unhistorical" or "unrealistic". I enjoy flying in the MA when I get the chance, but it's a totally different world than the SEA.
And you're right. I don't get to fly as often as I would like to. Reagarding me getting the crap kicked outta me, well, nothing's changed in that respect since I started flying online sims.
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I like the current capture system, its better than having the map room in the middle of the field, where any moron could spawn in the hangar that faced the map room and fire rockets or guns and kill troops.
However, I would prefer the following changes:
Put VH on the opposite side of the town. Put a map room between the VH and the field.
Put 2 VH's in town, add 6 mannable acks to town. Town still has its map room.
To capture a field, you need to take the map room between the field and the VH.
Town can also be captured by taking the map room in town.
Towns are the SOLE determining factor in rebuild time of fields. If you take the field but not the town, no matter how much supplies you bring to the field, nothing will rebuild until you take the town.
Capturing the town will give the attackers a VH to launch GV's into the enemy field and will deny rebuild time to the field they're attacking.
Adding a few manned AT guns in the field and town would be nice too :)
The state in which the country's CITY is at is what determines the rebuild time of the towns. If any supplies are received, they should REDUCE the time down to a maximum of 25% of the time they would take to rebuild, none of this crap of getting supplies in and everything rebuilding instantly.
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"Attack the subject matter, not the person, Laz. Haven't you learned yet?
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once again.... pull the string and ripsnore jerks like a puppet on speed... If you were to read and comprehend what you read then you would realize that I was responding to an attack on people, including myself and the arena we fly in. I did not start the attack on people vs content.
banana.. dweeby and dweebfest are not negative? and... "unhistorical" and "unrealistic"?? I don''t know about that but there are plenty of unrealistic/unhistorical features to go around for all of the arenas including your precious events eh? To claim realism of one area over another is pretty laughable.
lazs
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all I can say is that every thread Lazs comes into soon becomes a flamefest.
This thread has lost any purpose and any meaning because of this. Sadness.
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Tac,
While these guys flame the snot out of each other....
Good ideas!
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In an effort to follow the original point of this thread, I think Tac has an excellent idea.
IN NO WAY do I agree with the "Ditch-N-Capture" concept. I would rethink my subscription if this became the case.
No need to take away the role of the goon. Also, I would not want to see it necessary to land the troops, as this would be somewhat historically inaccurate as well. C-47's carrried paratroopers (as well as everything else in WWII) and theres no reason to take this out of the game.
Make the Base and it's town 2 seperate entities, one relying on the other, like tac said. Toughen up the town buildings as well.
Tac has the best idea I've seen yet.
Also, what's the chances of letting the goons deploy light armored vehicles? Slim? none?
But no matter what, forget the idea of dumping the goon!
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Originally posted by muckmaw
Also, what's the chances of letting the goons deploy light armored vehicles? Slim? none?
GIGANT!
Sadly, even it couldn't carry a Panzer IV :( (If I recall...).
eskimo
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Actually in the old, old days, once you ditched you had to cap the field because the other team could still come in and land and retake the field. It would only become yours once some object came back up on the field. I remember fields changing hands 10 to 15 times before a field finally came back up. Was complete and total fun but could be gamed waaaay too easy.
Dnik for awhile
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i LOVED having to land on a field to capture it in the old 1.11 WB days. It was an adrenaline rush, and made the game much more fast paced.
Goons make this game slower.
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Whats this Seekers problem anyway?
Animal what was your handle in WB´s?
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I left when they moved from 1.11
my handle was Alah
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What Tac said
TTFN
snafu
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I like the way AH needs troops to capture. But it could use some revision, heres a quick idea.....
Each C-47 can hold 10 troops assign each trooper an object to capture... Example
Trooper #1 captures ack
trooper #2,#3 captures Bomber hangers
Trooper#4,5 capture fighter hangers'
Of course i would like to see needing MORE than 10 troops for a complete capture.
Etc. etc.. Each trooper in the "troop carrier" either GV or c-47 is asssigned ( by HTC) a capture object, so if some of the troops are killed you can only hold PART of the feild. Would be interesting, I'm sure hard to do,, but just an idea.
Would be fun to only hold part of a feild.
I know it will never happen, but i'm always thinking outside the box.
NUTTZ
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1 big problem for me is:
mgs and light caliber cannon taking out buildings. acks/fuel/barracks sure. Bomber hanger!? Come on...
ps- this goes for armor as well.