Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: J_A_B on February 01, 2001, 11:46:00 PM
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What is a good convergence setting for the P-51D? I usually set mine at 450. (AW doesn't model convergence and I never sriously paid attention to it before in AH.
It it better to aim all guns at the same point, or stagger them? (I aim them all at the same distance) Or is it just a matter of personal taste?
Finally, what are some good ways to practice shooting? My accuracy is terrible over about 150 yards.
I am saving up a few bucks with the intention of hopefully getting an online account for a month or two (I have done this before, version 1.02 I think); therefore I am practicing offline and in H2H.
J_A_B
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On any of the .50 cal planes I usually stagger my convergences. My thinking is that they are E fighters, which means my guns passes will be made at high speed, and thus the range will be closing rapidly.
Usually I'll set it to something like 500, 450, 400 in the p51. In the p47 I like 525, 475, 425, 375. This usually puts at least 1 set of guns at convergence at any given point and increases the chances of a hit in a snapshot. A point convergence would be better for killing bombers though IMO. This method results in the target being covered with hits. Against bombers you want to target a single area. (Rudder and tail or wingtip works best IMO.)
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bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
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I have mine staggered at 15 yard increments starting at around 375 for the inner guns. Some people set them all the same, but that makes no sense to me the way i fly the P51 - hi-speed bounces. The shots i take are made from hi-closure rate passes, so the target is effectively moving toward you as you fire so staggered setting make the most sense.
You dont want to over do it tho, i think any more than 15 yrds between settings is too much, as if you get a snapshot opportunity your guns are too staggered to do any serious damage. Same applies for tracking (deflection) shots.
IMO 450 is too much. cut it back to 400 at the most, any more and 50s arnt effective.
[This message has been edited by Spatula (edited 02-02-2001).]
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I had very little luck with the longer convergences because it's hard to get any kind of persistant tracking shot at those ranges, and the .50s need more of a tracking shot to get a good kill probability outside of 300 yards. I ended up setting my .50 convergences staggered between 300 and about 375, which results in little mini-convergences at around 200 as well. If I'm closing rapidly, I'll open fire at d600 and the other plane usually shreds as soon as I hit convergence range. I've been able to consistently take off major B-17 parts by opening fire at 900 in a steep dive with lots of closing rate, and as I pass through the convergence range the parts almost immediately fall off. There's just not much damage being done outside 400 yards or so, but it's enough to soften up the target so when I hit convergence, the pieces just fly off.
When in a "normal" fight with slower closure rates, I just hold my fire and open up as close to convergence as I can. That usually ensures a kill against fighters with minimal wasted ammo. With the longer convergence range (400 or farther), I can't track the target long enough for the kill, then when I get closer, the long convergence makes my bullets scattered so the effect is again lessened.
300 to 350 ought to be about right for the .50s IMHO, and even a few short snapshots at that range will do serious damage.
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eagl <squealing Pigs> BYA
Oink Oink To War!!!
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POINT CONVERGENCE: all shots pass through same point.
Puts massive damage in a small area, but you have to be very accurate with your shots to get a kill, but all ya got to do is keep your fire on the target for a half second to do catastrophic damage.
STAGGERED/SPREAD CONVERGENCE: each gun/cannon set has a different convergence point than its peers.
Offers a larger hit area and is more forgiving and offers a larger hit cone, However you must put fire on the target longer because probably only a few rounds are hitting at a given time.
When I flew the 51 i woul set points staggered from 350 400 and 450.
Now I fly the F6f which is more of a turn fighter than the 51, i use settings or 350, 375, 400, or sometimes i set them all at 375, results vary depending on the hardness of the target.
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I am no hotshot but I never do anything without reading a lot about the subject. From what I have found on the internet the pilots of WWII set their convergence for impact at a single distance or staggered convergence for a cone of effect. I do not know if it makes a difference. From what I have found the USAAF guys tended toward a single convergence point and the Navy and USMC guys used the cone approach. Even that does not seem to be set in stone.
I have been reading too much today and it is time for bed! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Couple of hints on convergence.
Fly couple of weeks with camera on. Analize all the films where you hit enemy. You will know after it where to set convergence.
Make distance between convergences for different guns at least 50 yards. (75-100 is even better).
I do not know how the convergence is calculated in the game. If it is calculated "fair" way, then it is a reason to set the inner pair of guns at the farest convergens, as on the picture.
(http://www.warriormage.com/graphix/conv.jpg)
Then you get additional convergences where pass of bullets of outers guns cross pass of bullets of inner guns. But again, I have not idea if it is works in AH, though it shall. I flied cannon birds mainly, so had no chance to check if this trick works.
Fariz
[This message has been edited by Fariz (edited 02-02-2001).]
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Worth remembering is that if you fire at your opponent from d300, while your bullets (if set at convergence 300) will converge at this setting, the enemy will, during the time it takes for the rounds to get there, have moved a bit.
I've set my convergence a tad bit higher than the ranges I fire at for this reason.
Of course, if you're a thsjook dweeb who like head ons, you wanna do the opposite.
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Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://store4.yimg.com/I/demotivators_1619_3845234)
"I don't necessarily agree with everything I think." - A. Eldritch
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Bah! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by Maniac (edited 02-02-2001).]
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Thats why I like the P-38L
A straight line of pure lead cutting thru blue planes like Creamo thru a prostitute.
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Fat DRUNK Bastards.
Nothing feels sweeter than facing a powerful enemy 1 on 1, the battle is tough, but you emerge victorious. As he types <S>!!! on channel one, you open fire on his chute.
(http://home.coqui.net/dimitri/secret/cassie6.jpg)
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You know, I used to use a longer, staggered convergence, but no longer. I found with the staggered convergences I was an assist machine. With all convergences set to one point, I get more kills then a spread setup.
While I can theoretically see why the staggered plan that Fariz illustrates above makes sense (I used and reccomended it in the past); it just never paid off for me flying the Jug. I am back to all guns at 325 in the P-47, and 300 for the F6F5. I find that my snapshots pay off much more with this setting than they used to with the staggered convergences. I fly the Jug as an E fighter primarily, but of course do some BnZ. With all guns at 325 I'm quite effective between about 250 and 450, and that's where I get the majority of my shots. Cross my guns in the 300 range and a snap shot is all I need. It doesn't always work, but it makes enough of a difference to make the snap shot workable in the Hellcat with 6 x.50's, where it is less viable with spread convergence.
Try 'em both, and pick the one that works better for you. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I am a really crappy shot, so those of you with better gunnery may get different results.
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Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"
[This message has been edited by Lephturn (edited 02-02-2001).]
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I stagger mine at 250-275-300. I do not pull the trigger until I'm 300, that will help your gunnery more than convergence IMO.
A squaddie of mine uses one single convergence point and I thought I would give it a try...I hated it.
I've flown the staggered convergence since beta in the 51 and prefer it. I wish I could blame my poor gunnery on convergence settings (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Ice
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I set my three pair to 500 in the P51. Reason is that its middle of the road.
I can kill equally well at 100 and 1000 with this set up!
Yup, thats right. Dont think you are safe with Yeager 1k behind you!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Yeager
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First, I am not a hotshot.
Personally I don’t believe that any machine gun (wing mounted that is) should have a convergence of greater than 300 yards ( 900 feet). A book that I’ve thumbed through quite a bit, “Fighter Combat: Tactics and Maneuvering” by Robert L. Shaw, states that gun convergence during WWII were often set between 600 and 800 feet. He uses a phrase I’ve heard before “When you think your too close, get in closer”. Now this all is easier said then done; however, I have found that my kills come quicker with a closer convergence. Also the problems with angle of attack, speed, and distance come into play especially with a round that will drop off in energy quickly as will .50’s and below.
I have read the post by Yeager and have a real hard time believing that I can be hit by a .50 round, in level flight, 1k (3000 feet) away. Even if I do, the amount of energy it will have should be low enough that there will be little damage if any. Unless of course you get the “golden BB” right in the cockpit.
Two rules of thumb for air combat: Have an altitude advantage and don’t waist rounds on distance shots. I will cake off rounds at a distance but it is usually to try and rattle the other person into turning.
** ( The book is pretty good but it reads about like stereo instructions. I would recommend it to anyone researching ACM’s. ) **
Zippatuh
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I set mine up 350/375/400 in the Uber-stang.
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In my way of flying I will kill more with a snapshot than by long, sustained bursts of fire. I therefore prefer all guns converging at one point. That point may be different from plane-to-plane, but I want all guns on one point.
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I set mine to 1500. That way I can shoot down anything inbetween!
-Westy
<whiiiiiiiir, plop....>
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I set the convergence to 525yds. I like the slightly "curved in" effect of that range. The guns seem to be more on target at short "and" long range. If I can remove a rudder or elevator from the opposing plane at long range, that's a start to making him into a lawn dart.
"The Mustangs taking flight at dawn, their sleek bodies silhouetted against the sun, the Merlins making a heart pounding sound in the warm July morning, is freakin' AWESOME" Oshkosh - 1980-1991,93-95,97,99-2000
Thorns
(old sig)
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(http://www.user.shentel.net/vonz/thorns.jpg)
[This message has been edited by Thorns (edited 02-02-2001).]
[This message has been edited by Thorns (edited 02-02-2001).]
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If you only want to get hits follow the above advice. If you want to get the 50's to where they are effective in AH, set convergence to 50 yards.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
Mav
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250-275-300
Don't fire until you are at 300.
LIKE ICE SAID! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Thunder
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I figure convergence is all about what it is you want to do. My best ever Pony flight as a buff hunter, I had my convergence staggered between 650 and 400, killed 2 GUNNED B17's and a B26 all within a few minutes and took nary a ping from any of them. Same night I furballed with the same convergence and I swear to cod I couldn't hit the broad side of the ocean at 10ft.
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Used to use staggered convergences also but found that I was getting LOTS of assists. When I moved all my convergences to 300, I found that I was able to critically injure the planes more often with a quick shot.
Now when I get a tracking shot, WHOA NELLIE.
Forget about staggered convergence...go with a set convergence somewhere in the range of 300-350.
-Ding