Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: muckmaw on January 25, 2002, 01:12:41 PM
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Sitting in an office on a slow friday leaves alot of time to read these message boards, and a thought occurred to me.
The latest round of complaints seems to be based on the proliferation of LA-7s and other late war planes, and their dominance of early war planes.
Now, I'm not going to sit here and say I'm a fighter jock. I'm not. I know very little about which fighter does what best.
But why not perk ALL planes, and Vehicles?
I'd be willing to bet my life this thought has been posted before, but perhaps it's worth revisiting.
Obviously, the Perk All system would be on a scale in step with a planes overall ability.
For fighters, the Me-262 would still be on the top of the Perk level at the usual 200, while the oldest, least effective fighter...(whatever that is) would be free. Each progressively advance plane would require more Perk Points to fly.
Now the inherint problem here is the best pilots will get the top rides and dominate the arena. SO how do we combat this? A 500 Perk allowance for everyone at the beggining of the month?
Crash too much, lose all your perks, and your flying the worst plane in the arena. Keep your perks and keep your hot ride.
Of course, this would not be limited to fighters. Add perks for bombers and vehicles too.
So A guy flying an La-7 has earned it. ANd in order to keep his ride, he will tangle with other high reward planes to keep earning perks.
Meanwhile the guys with the lower perk planes are not as attractive to the hot plans, as losing a fight to one would result in a high loss of points for very little reward.
Is this a ridiculous idea? Is it something that could work?
What do you think?
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blah, this punishes people who simply like to Qua.. err furball by artifically imposing a "death" penalty, as if the arena needs even MORE running, ganging rutabagas who couldn't acm their way out of an air castle. :mad:
.salvo 12 < boom*12 > hope this buries this idea - and if i see you repeating it, why, i'll have to hunt you down mercilessly - in the 17 me-262's i can afford. :eek:
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Muckmaw,
Spend an evening or a week flying the C.202 online. See how much fun it is/isn't.
That may color your perspective a bit.
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The first problem I can see with this is the subjective argument over which planes are better and how they should be perked. Arguments such as “hey this fighter is perked XX, and this one is X”. We squabble between us now at the price of the F4U4 and the 152. Can you imagine the arguments about the LA7/P51D/190D9?
Also, depending on what kind of flying you want to do, 500 perks can go fast depending on aircraft cost. The argument is it promotes safe flying. Not everyone wants to fly safe all the time. Taking into account some of us can be online for a large portion of a tour it’s possible to wind up having to fly a 202 as your only choice for weeks.
The main argument is the subscription that is paid to play the game. If I understand correctly, the perk system is in place to limit the amount of aircraft that had limited numbers during the war. It has also been used to curb the popularity of a particular aircraft.
It’s not a bad idea. Actually it would bring everything to a type of fairness. If one is perked then perk them all. On the other hand, if one is not perked then none of them should be. By being used to limit the number of late war aircraft in the arena, it happens to be serving its purpose.
Zippatuh
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Originally posted by Shane
blah, this punishes people who simply like to Qua.. err furball by artifically imposing a "death" penalty, as if the arena needs even MORE running, ganging rutabagas who couldn't acm their way out of an air castle. :mad:
.salvo 12 < boom*12 > hope this buries this idea - and if i see you repeating it, why, i'll have to hunt you down mercilessly - in the 17 me-262's i can afford. :eek:
If hunting me is how you want to spend your $15 a month, be my guest. I'll post whatever I want, you warm up your jet.
On a more serious note, Karnak, I assume the C.202 is considered the worst plane in the game.
So the month would start off with pilots flying La-7's and such, and end with the less deserving pilots being out of perks, and flying 202's trying to earns perks against other 202's, etc, dodging bounces from the La's all the while.
I can see your point. So if these planes are so useless, why even have them?
Zip- Don't get me wrong, I don't want to ruin anyone's fun, or dictate how anyone flies. I just think in a semi realistic war, not everyone would be flying LA-7s, 190's, P-51's etc. Only the top pilots (of which I am certainly not...check my score) would get the hot rides, giving the lower guys something to work towards, and limiting the number of late war planes in the arena.
Maybe a daily perk allowance would work better. Each time you log in you get X number of perks added to your overall perk score so you have a chance to fly at least a decent plane each day.
Run out of perks and your a gunner, or a tanker, to earn some back.
As I said, these are just my thoughts.
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Originally posted by muckmaw
I just think in a semi realistic war, not everyone would be flying LA-7s, 190's, P-51's etc. Only the top pilots (of which I am certainly not...check my score) would get the hot rides, giving the lower guys something to work towards, and limiting the number of late war planes in the arena.
this is a game, not a semi-realistic war, as if such a thing could exist in the first place.
even back in the Fully Realistic war that was WW2, you had raw green pilots fresh out of flight school and flying (and dying) in the latest available planes, plus a lot in the more "doggy" planes like the p-40 and p-39 series, hell they even had vets flying these, no one was really given much of a choice in ride.
besides, there's the Combat Theatre for this type of concept, check it out. :)
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I totally understand this is not even a semi-realistic war.
And if you consider WWII as an example, the ratio of higher end aircraft is much higher in AH, then in WWII.
Quite frankly, the La's and such don't bother me much at all. What bothers me is a guy in an La who knows how to attack and down a B-26. That's what makes my life difficult.
I know AH is not a WWII simulation, but by adding a larger scale perk system, perhaps we could balance out the population with regards to which aircraft are utilized, as was the case in WWII.
If nothing else, I think it would make the game much more challenging, and rewarding.
I will take your advice and check out the CT tonight. Maybe it is more to my taste.
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If HTC started perking the whole planeset in the MA then I would imagine their revenue base would drop dramaticly...I'd be one of the first to cancel. 'Nuff said :p
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MuckMaw,
Although I agree with most of the reasons stated above why perking most planes wouldn't fly, or be fair in AH, I salute effort to solve a huge problem with the main arena.
It would certainly shift the late-war plane dominance towards a good mixture of WWII eras and make the arena much more interesting, but it would also really burn many players, especially newbies to the point that I fear that many would quit.
Meanwhile, the immediate solution to most of the problems with the main can be found in the CT. I find myself flying in there more and more, and enjoying AH more than ever.
See you there,
eskimo
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All the planes are already perked. Most of them are just at the same level - 0.
Trying to make the game 'fair' can have some really retarded results - for example imagine a game that would make Bf-110s free while perking Bf-109Es. Oh wait...
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i've said it before, and i'll say it again: PERK THE PEOPLE WHINNING ABOUT THE PERKS! :rolleyes:
The Tuckster
"The first time I ever saw a jet, I shot it down."
Col. Chuck Yeager, USAAF
(http://members.aol.com/tuck0006/images/lawnd2a.gif)
(http://members.aol.com/tuck0006/images/tucksspita.jpg)
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perking bites IMO.
how about just limiting the numbers of late war rides?
I.E. x number per country.. first come, first serve.
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Originally posted by Wlfgng
perking bites IMO.
how about just limiting the numbers of late war rides?
I.E. x number per country.. first come, first serve.
totally stupid idea. think about it. if you can.:eek:
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Originally posted by Shane
totally stupid idea. think about it. if you can.:eek:
But wouldn't it be nice to be able to destroy a countries ability to produce Spits, Zekes, La's, P51's etc? That's one of the features I really liked in AW, strat with a real purpose that has a definite impact on the outcome of the game. I'll bet you'd get more than a few guys willing to intercept a bomber formation headed to your favorite rides factory :p
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Thats not a bad idea, Lars.
Only trouble is I have a suspicion the LA-7 Etc Factories would be perma-dead. That would be the first target of any country. Then you are taking away the ability of the furballers to use their favorite ride. Something like this would cause a bigger rift, IMO, between the Strat guys and the furballers.
I like it, but I think the furballers would hate it.
Maybe have Aircraft factories whose production is unknown until the enemy country destroys it?
This way the LA-7 factory would be somewhat hidden, and not always dead?
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Originally posted by MrLars
But wouldn't it be nice to be able to destroy a countries ability to produce Spits, Zekes, La's, P51's etc? That's one of the features I really liked in AW, strat with a real purpose that has a definite impact on the outcome of the game. I'll bet you'd get more than a few guys willing to intercept a bomber formation headed to your favorite rides factory :p
maybe. it'd all depend on how long this production is out. but then i stop and think about how it'd make ganging even worse, especially with such relatively small-scaled maps for the # of players in primetime, and how it'd put the side in the bucket in an even deeper hole, making it an unenjoyable experience.
not to mention that at certain times of the day, one side or another has # advantage, i.e., midday EST knits have # = to both bish and rooks combined, and it'd be detrimental to enjoyment for the people who play at those times not having the ride they'd like to fly, simply because they don't have nbrs, nor the real ability to stop (a) 35k lasersight buff(s).
so, no. i don't like the concept.
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Shane. You're a handsomehunk.
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IMO
In the MA all planes should be un-perked.
Ya want real - go to the CT.
Spits on P-51s, LA7 against everything. MA is fantasy:D
So why perk anything? Oh.... I remember now. The F4U-c LOL
Blutik
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Originally posted by Shane
not to mention that at certain times of the day, one side or another has # advantage, i.e., midday EST knits have # = to both bish and rooks combined, and it'd be detrimental to enjoyment for the people who play at those times not having the ride they'd like to fly, simply because they don't have nbrs, nor the real ability to stop (a) 35k lasersight buff(s).
so, no. i don't like the concept.
fair enough...how 'bout being able to destroy a countrys ability of launching those bombers? Time would be a factor but I'll bet you're right, too many people would either log or change sides just because their ride isn't available. I think it might be good for a CT type of arena though.
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IMO
In the MA all planes should be un-perked.
Ya want real - go to the CT.
Spits on P-51s, LA7 against everything. MA is fantasy:D
So why perk anything? Oh.... I remember now. The F4U-c LOL
Blutik
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Best idea so far blutic
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I got a better Idea Remove the perk system and the jets from the MA. Use the perk system in the CT and when we have enough planes (specially early war) for each country and/or service use the perk system as a ranking scructure (opening up planes age sets). Use the jets scrictly for CT LW (And mabey IJA who developed a jet almost identical to the me262 but it never saw service) and special events. the perk system in the MA sucks its better to use it for the CT and special events.
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Originally posted by Wlfgng
Shane. You're a handsomehunk.
and you're a blood-bubble bigtoefart, but what's your point?
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you just got my point.
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Originally posted by Wlfgng
you just got my point.
< shrug > < click >
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.. I did get a chuckle out of blood-bubble bigtoefart though.. lol
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Credit for it goes to DoK, but i thought it was fitting.
:p
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I disagree with the statement that only the best pilots would fly the high-perks, they don't do that now, nor do they fly the ubberlaseven...allot. I would love to see less of the La-7. It's only advantage really is horsepower, and that is easily countered. I'm sort of beginning to like the IDEA of a "furball island" arena, just like the old "Fightertown" of Air Warrior. I really think it's warranted. If we had that...both all the furballers and all the land-grabbers of the community would be happy. Unfortunately what we have is a main arena where everyone has to find thier niche.
I personally can't stand it when I've created a mission to capture a base and a horde of drooling gangbanger La-7/Nik sticks show up and ruin the fun. Sure, they help cap the base a bit but forget talking them into knocking ack down or straffing a city...FORGET IT! They aint there to contribute to the objective.
I also get peeved when I'm trying to enjoy a nice furball and some land-grabbing fluffy buff twit comes along and destroys the fun. I've seen some of the best, long lasting, nobody's worried furballs be completely destroyed by a single fluffy who's only goal is to what seems to be...piss off both sides.
I think we need another main centered on furballing. No capturable bases...none even damageable. Just planes...all of them.
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Originally posted by MrLars
But wouldn't it be nice to be able to destroy a countries ability to produce Spits, Zekes, La's, P51's etc? That's one of the features I really liked in AW, strat with a real purpose that has a definite impact on the outcome of the game. I'll bet you'd get more than a few guys willing to intercept a bomber formation headed to your favorite rides factory :p
If I remember right....HiTech once posted that this was the one thing he hated most about Air Warrior. I wouldn't count on it ever happening...HOWEVER COOL IT WOULD BE!! lol. Heck..if I remember right the spit factories were only down like 15 minutes (and I went to my wits end killing them lol...I really hated spitdweebs in AW lol).
On a side note...did you EVER find an FW factory to kill in AWIII? I didn't. I'd heard they were supposed to be there though.
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Originally posted by Shane
totally stupid idea. think about it. if you can.:eek:
How about limiting the number of each ride capable from each airbase?? That could work. Naturally La-7's and Niks would be 1 each, thankyouverymuch.
:rolleyes:
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There will always be a 'best' plane. Perking one doesn't do a whole lot except move people to the next 'best' one. I actually think the situation we have now is as 'good' as it is ever going to get. Used to be that most of the people you see now in N1Ks, La7s, Spits, and P51s were in the C-hog. Once HTC perked that we went from having one dominant plane to four, that is a better bargain in anyones book. I think if we perk one of the "Big 4", most of the people flying it would simply go to the 3 that are left, not move to an entirely different plane. If we perk all four, we will simply get a new 'dweeb ride' that people think give them the most advantage over the remaining planes in the set. I say make the most of what we have now.
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I LIKE the C.202!!!
I know it has spitballs for ammo but I just made a very nice 1/72 model of one that is right beside me as I type and so i usually give it a try at least once a night (and usually die too... lol) But two nights ago I actually found a lancaster that didnt fire back (god knows why!!) and sat behind it with the fire button pressed hard down and hey! it blew up!!... 2.08 perk points.. hehehehe;)
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shane is correct on this... if you don't agree you are a handsomehunk. Making everyone even more timid than they allready are is a bad idea.
This whole thing does point out how the perk point system has painted itself into a corner. No place for early war planes except to foist em off on the losing country or the new guys who are trying to figure out if they want to play/pay AH. Why anyone should be "rewarded" for living online in AH is beyond me. Why anyone with any amount of skill would want a huge and OBVIOUS advantage like flying a perk plane is beyond me. You may have "earned" your perk ride but you certainly didn't earn the kills you got with it.
lazs
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Originally posted by Tuck
i've said it before, and i'll say it again: PERK THE PEOPLE WHINNING ABOUT THE PERKS! :rolleyes:
Ah, a very senior Whinestapo member. People post suggestions in here for constructive debate. You are clearly totally unfamiliar with this idea and never tried it. Perhaps that's because all YOU ever do IS whine?
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Unperk Everything
What about an RPS? Never bothered me, actually enjoyed flying same era fighters against each other. Granted the planeset still needs to be filled out some first.
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Originally posted by Zippatuh
The main argument is the subscription that is paid to play the game. If I understand correctly, the perk system is in place to limit the amount of aircraft that had limited numbers during the war. It has also been used to curb the popularity of a particular aircraft.
Actually the purpose of the perk system is to keep the number of aircraft types that could unbalance the arena down. It has nothing to do with production numbers or when (or if) the frame saw combat
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Originally posted by Wlfgng
Shane. You're a handsomehunk.
Obviously!!!!
BgMAW
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[SIZE=24]I say Perk 'em All![/SIZE]
For fighters, the Me-262 would still be on the top of the Perk level at the usual 200, while the oldest, least effective fighter...(whatever that is) would be free. Each progressively advance plane would require more Perk Points to fly.
Now the inherint problem here is the best pilots will get the top rides and dominate the arena. SO how do we combat this? A 500 Perk allowance for everyone at the beggining of the month?
Only for those that needs a lone. Make perks transferable. A rich Perker could buy his own Air Force..
Crash too much, lose all your perks, and your flying the worst plane in the arena. Keep your perks and keep your hot ride.
The lowest 5 planes are only 3 or 4 perks apeice. The better plane you buy, the more perks you make.. (the more you loose) ;)
Of course, this would not be limited to fighters. Add perks for bombers and vehicles too.
So A guy flying an La-7 has earned it. ANd in order to keep his ride, he will tangle with other high reward planes to keep earning perks.
Meanwhile the guys with the lower perk planes are not as attractive to the hot plans, as losing a fight to one would result in a high loss of points for very little reward.
Is this a ridiculous idea? Is it something that could work?
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tjay......kiss my prettythang.
if what i say is whinning to you, then fine. i'm a whine dweeb. you don't like it, then bugger off and whine about something else.
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I rarely ever see...or fly a perked plane. Every plane in the set is dangerous in the right hands...even the 202. Perkies are just about useless to me. About the only time I use em is if I grab a C-hog to go spraying with.
Others have pointed out that the current fad is the La-7...was C-hog...G10...nikki...yak. I usually fly the p51d/b-F6-F4(1)-205 or 109f/g2. I've never felt I lost to a better plane...just to a better pilot or because I was in an inferior position I couldnt overcome.
Remember....planes don't kill people...pilots do
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Originally posted by MrLars
But wouldn't it be nice to be able to destroy a countries ability to produce Spits, Zekes, La's, P51's etc? That's one of the features I really liked in AW, strat with a real purpose that has a definite impact on the outcome of the game. I'll bet you'd get more than a few guys willing to intercept a bomber formation headed to your favorite rides factory :p
I too always found this a nice addition. It was also, short of blood pig'n, about the only time I really enjoyed driving a buff. There's just something that warms the heart when you deprive an entire country of their Spits ;).
If anything needs to be done to strat, this should be top of the list.
Vortex
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Originally posted by Tuck
i've said it before, and i'll say it again: PERK THE PEOPLE WHINNING ABOUT THE PERKS! :rolleyes:
Err, how would this work in practice? Anyone who flies really well gets a whiner to come and live with them? Or do they have to listen to whines about perks? Or is it a reverse perk points system - so if you do well, you have the right to remove whine posts from the bulletin board? I think we should be told!! :D
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IMO, the only real purpose of the perk system is to protect the arenas of plane overusage.
Plane usage is mainly based on plane effectivity for each pilot. Some of you will say, hey 109G10 is far better than SpitV and it is well underused. You are wrong, 109G10 is better only if driven by a competent pilot while SpitV is far better for the average MA pilot.
Based on this "theory" and based on the actual level of our pilots, SpitV is far better plane than 109G10, and cause that, SpitV is overused in comparison with any "potentialy" more competent 109.
So, IMO, planes should be perked ONLY based on the plane usage. For example, perking the TOP TEN used planes. More usage = more perks.
If your preferred plane is perked due overusage, there are always more choices that will fit your flying style.
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Hehehe MrLars, it would be wounderful to destroy a countries ability to produce Spits, Zekes, La's, P51's FOREVER (Remove P51 from the list) ;)