Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: faminz on January 25, 2002, 05:23:44 PM
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For those not from the old AW, RR = relaxed realism and thats where most of the newbies, whiners and 12yr olds were found. There was a noticeable difference between the quality of chat in RR and FR (Full realism). One used to duck back into RR sometimes when the FR was low in numbers but it immediately felt less serious.
Maybe thats what we have with the MA and the CT?
MA is the general 'dump everyone here' type arena and CT is for serious players.
Maybe it just needs rebranding?
I know that some nightsthe inane chatter that goes on in MA just drives me nuts so I want to squelch everyone bar my squad. (is there a way to do that?)
alternatively make the MA less realistic and youll find the serious players will go to the CT before you can say knfe!!!
:confused:
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Yes. Squelch channel 1 (.squelch)
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The lack of RR arenas is not the problem. People lacking self control and behaving the way they do is.
Westy
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A permanent squelch list would sure be nice.
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I think HT should bump the price back up to $30 or even $40 a month, that would drive away most of the jerks and juveniles.
Sadly, the quality of the community has gone down in the last few months, at least online. More swearing, more insulting, too many guys who think they should type everything in CAPS, and those who get wound up if everyone doesnt do what they want them to do.
My thoughts anywayk
dago
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That's the ticket. Keep AH open only to elitist pigs who think that people with smaller amounts of disposable cash are somehow less civilized.
roadkill.
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That's the ticket. Keep AH open only to elitist pigs who think that people with smaller amounts of disposable cash are somehow less civilized.
roadkill.
I agree.
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so wait...
Let me see if I understand...
If im good at a flight simulator, then I dont talk trash.....
but if am not that good that means I must talk trash....
Sounds to me your not talking under consideration the following scientific equation.
Warping +afk pee break kill + Beer * MORE PEOPLE= More Whining. ~reguardless of skill.
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In general I pay virtualy no atention to what goes on chanel 1, I read only the green and the other country orenated chanels and the White, I simply dont have time to waste on all that drible on chanel 1.
I realy dont think that the CT and MA are any different in this regard it is simply a mater of numbers, the more people you have in an areana the more likely you will have somwone who is going to produce this stuff you complaine about.
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roadkill.
Thanks, rarely have I ever had my point confirmed so quickly.
Dago
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Originally posted by Dago
Thanks, rarely have I ever had my point confirmed so quickly.
Dago
i have to agree that your statement $ = class is totally off the mark and very elitist. Plenty of immature jerks in your squad, too, albeit 1 less now.
;)
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Originally posted by Dago
Thanks, rarely have I ever had my point confirmed so quickly.
Dago
If it makes you feel better...
Try bovine scat.
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The lower price of AH does mean that there are more people online that may not be as caught up in the 'honor amongst pilots' thing.
I think that early on in flight sims, especially when it cost more to join, a larger percentage of the online flight sim'ers were die hards.. I.E. more into the historical part of air combat and perceived air-to-air chivalry..
but... just because newer players may not be 'into' it in the same way doesn't mean a they are causing the 'inane chatter' and trash talking.
Money has nothing to do being mature.
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Originally posted by Dago
I think HT should bump the price back up to $30 or even $40 a month, that would drive away most of the jerks and juveniles.
My thoughts anywayk
dago
This is the oldest, and stupidest argument in online gaming. This was the hue and cry on warpbirds for years. Let me tell you from years of research...the most juvenile, arrogant, ignorant, rude, and overall, annoying people are those with lots of money. As with all rules, there are many exceptions, but raising the price doesnt keep out jerks....it only keeps out poor jerks, the rich ones would still be here:rolleyes:
A relaxed realism arena does nothing but make the game into air-quake. All the new players would flock to the RR arena, as well as all marginal pilots, and they all learn bad habbits and crutches, and never move into the "real" arena, all dedicated pilots move on.................just how many people were in the AW full realism arena again on average....10...15 ?
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Originally posted by Dago
I think HT should bump the price back up to $30 or even $40 a month, that would drive away most of the jerks and juveniles.
Sadly, the quality of the community has gone down in the last few months, at least online. More swearing, more insulting, too many guys who think they should type everything in CAPS, and those who get wound up if everyone doesnt do what they want them to do.
My thoughts anywayk
dago
No WAY Dagosan!! Promote the squelch list but not the price hike (wow I couldn't think how to spell that lol). We want HTC to make lots of cash yet provide the lure of mooooore to provide incentive to keep upgrading hehe.
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I don't notice any difference in the amount of jerks now or when I payed $30 a month.
DES
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Originally posted by 2Late4U
A relaxed realism arena does nothing but make the game into air-quake. All the new players would flock to the RR arena, as well as all marginal pilots, and they all learn bad habbits and crutches, and never move into the "real" arena, all dedicated pilots move on.................just how many people were in the AW full realism arena again on average....10...15 ?
...well, 5 or 10 is a completely inaccurate statement. For the better part of Gamestorms life the FR arena had a huge amount of players. I'll tell ya what else, many of those players were RR converts AND allot of that happened on various occasions when a few guys who's country was low on numbers went to the RR arena's and begged help. Here's the difference. When newbie/RR types show'd up in the FR with their kill macro's and attitudes, they were more often than not "counseled" in a very respectful manner and they usually worked out ok. What happens in AH is some smart-ass show's up, fires off on channel one and I'll wager 7 out of 10 people who answer him/her do so in a manner no more adult than they. Further, allot of the advice they get that isn't inflammatory to the situation is done in a "directing" manner, what do you expect to happen? I'm of the opinion that if the super-secret so-called "monitor's" spent less time warning/muteing people for dirty wordy use and took a more active role in INFORMING people whats expected we'd all get along allot better. The other night...uhhm...can't remember who but the guy spent at least 3 hours acting like a complete ass. Never used a single "bad" word but IMO should've been muted for a week.
An RR arena would be a good thing. However...those who go and stay?....goood. Those who never come?...better. RR could have less restrictions where all the kiddies could be kiddies. I've seen very few people migrate from FR to RR and remain. The reverse is true for RR to FR.
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Thanks Tumour. thats what I was getting at.
Its like reverse logic from all the make it more realistic discussions. I want more realism too but I think we need a play pen / arena for the less serious players more attracted to arcade style play. Its certainly not how much you pay that governs your attitude, its your maturity and committment to treating a WW2 air combat game with some respect for its historical and 'simulation' aspects. If you want to treat it like quake in the sky then fine, stay in the 'RR' arena.
Personally I think (as I said) that we already have the makings of this in the MA / CT arenas. Dumb down the MA and rebrand the CT and I reckon a large percentage would immediatly migrate to CT thus fulfilling the pleas of those hard working individuals pleading for more numbers there.
and while were at it, the historical names in CT are sooo much better for me too. I dont really like going to A23 or D67 or whatever, no versimilitude (is that right?). Personally Id rather hit Hickam or Wantuk or Rabaul etc. and CT has that!!
squelch 1 eh? hmmm Ill try that tonight!
and hey, I still remember a Pearl harbour scenario with you Tumour (I hope it was you) in old AW. was great!!!
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but FR vs RR is as simple as a different set of variables. No such thing as FR in a game as far as im concerned.
If a person's buddies move to FR that person is more like to move to FR as well. If their friends mostly stay in RR, they will probably stay there. At least thats the way I feel. I wouldn't be opposed to an FR arena at all. I think if the current arena is classed as "FR" and an RR arena is made... most people will stay in FR because thats the FM they know by heart, why learn all over again eh? I'm not sure if RR would be all that successful in AH's enviroment because I tend to think people generally stick with what they know already. But then again people might just up and move there. Humans are frickin unpredictable. :rolleyes:
My squad did a few campaigns in FR AW and we didn't find it to be that much more "difficult" than RR. It's just a vastly different flight model that you have to learn. However, most of the people we liked to fly with and against were in RR so we chose to stay there in the long run. Sure there were more tards in RR for reasons stated above, but they are easy to deal with (just shoot them down until they log lol). Jerks and amazinhunks are nothing but entertainment to me. I'm sure others feel differently, but I say (someone else said it first) "If you can shoot someone down, great. But if you can shoot them down enough to piss them off it's like icing on the cake." My squad e-mail list has a riot of a time talking about people that start whining on the radio after being shot down. You know the guys im talking about... whaaaaaa whaaaaa... every single time the other guy must have cheated, or warped, or dweebed... anything but simply got the best of them. Whatever, kinda got off on a tangent there, sorry. :D
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Air Warriors, your lobbying effort ain't gonna work--- Just ain't. HTC isn't planning to dumb down anything. Newbies can go to the training area, and I've noticed quite a few in there the last few weeks. Think they give them a little extra ammo thats it.
Why don't you use your good writting skills and lobby for stuff we all want?
I'd prefer cockpit damage, busted compass stuff like that. Different types of gages. Cowling flaps.. Hmm saw that on Il2... like it. Personal plane skins... You wouldn't rather have that?... How bout an object editor?
Why are you trying to seperate the community?.. what is your agenda? We can handle a few kids.. many of us are parents
I remember from years ago at AW the people in the RR area wouldn't even know if an event was coming up... They wouldn't visit the boards.. Just lived in their own little world no changes... ever!! Over here they on the same bus.. They hear guys talking about upcoming events and might.... just might decide to participate
But go ahead try one of those poll thingies --results might disapointe you.
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There is no need for a RR arena. The kids from AW will adapt and learn the new model.
If they won't, they're better off playing arcade boxed sims offline. That is, because in the end it's all about player skill not realism rate and the better player will always shoot them down online.
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well reasoned 10bears. Made me think, "what was my agenda"?
It was to offer a lateral thinking solution to the problem of the apparent infux of players who whine moan and generally act immature cf the players who want realism in all things including historical perspective.
I DO want those realistic changes you mentioned, but I am annoyed by the immature behaviour of some pilots. and I had seen many posts pleading for more CT players. Sooo i thought well, you cant force players to move but you can set things up so they automatically go where they feel happiest. i think AW managed that with the FR/RR idea and therefore I offered it as a potential solution.
Whatever, Ill stay in MA myself for now (with the occasional foray to the CT.
It made us think!
I consider the thread closed.
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Originally posted by faminz
Thanks Tumour. thats what I was getting at.
Its
and hey, I still remember a Pearl harbour scenario with you Tumour (I hope it was you) in old AW. was great!!!
Why yes!! :) I knew I knew your name from somewhere. Pearl?...you didn't go on that retarded "dive a kate straight down from 30k level and launch torpedo" mission with me didja?? Heheh...it was almost as fun as it was dumb...but...it worked eh?? lol.
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Originally posted by 10Bears
Air Warriors, your lobbying effort ain't gonna work--- Just ain't. HTC isn't planning to dumb down anything. Newbies can go to the training area, and I've noticed quite a few in there the last few weeks. Think they give them a little extra ammo thats it.
Why don't you use your good writting skills and lobby for stuff we all want?
Well, I don't think AH needs an RR arena that much, but I do think it needs a "Fighter-Town".
One thing is for certian, I really think if there were an RR arena there would simply be MORE of a playerbase for HTC. Did Fighter-Ops ever open up in WB? I know it was the RR version of WB....anyone know? Did it bring any players?
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Making a seperate arena for RR and one for FR will only divide the community.
As for the other stuff, the biggest whiners I've seen in AH so far have been these so called "AH Vets" that whine like a friggin' sheared sheep.
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As a former Air warrior I have to say dumbing down the reality engine is a bad idea infact I think the exact opposite I think HTC should strive to make it as accurate as possible.
Air warrior had one of the longest and best online flightsim communities. it was around before warbirds and aces high. many of the so called vets here came from air warrior alot of us went to warbirds before coming to Aces high. and like AH air warrior had it's influx of whinners cheaters loosers and quake heads. it will happen to every game reguardless of cost as long as you have a big player base.
The sollution to "quake head" problem is community. Squads and Vets should be leading by example. each squad should establish rules of conduct for there members and enforcing them. Vets are currently encouraged to help new players, We shoudl be doing this as a community as a whole.
I would go as far as to say there should be a good Etiquette section on the HTC website and in the player manuel infact every squadron should have good player etiquette rules and guids estab;ished and enforced.
lastly we are a community, if the community goes to hell it is becuase we failed as a community.
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Well said 10 Bears.
IMO, this attitude is more of a problem:
"MA is the general 'dump everyone here' type arena and CT is for serious players."
This type of elitism is uncalled for, unnecessary and will split the community. Just like the RR/FR issue did in that game.
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Hey, That Price Hike Idea is right on the mark. This means only GOOD players will play. The Idea of $30 to $40 isnt enough to get rid of those unwanted players. I suggest $300 to $500 a Month. Heck if you cant afford $6,000 a year for AH, You shouldnt fly. :rolleyes: Lets see if Hitech can survive with only a couple players. :rolleyes:
I personaly believe Hitech creations is moving along in a very positve direction. I support their approach to the game. Im glad its competivley price. I think additions like combat trim and auto take are good improvments for the more casual player. If your die-hard, you simpley do it all manualy.
Id like to see additional skins someday, and more aircraft types, but I pleased that we get improvments on a fairly regular basis.
The screen shots of the Ki67 and ME110 are pretty cool. 1.09 cant be too far away
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RR-vs-FR and MA-vs-CT is not the issue. Neither are they band aids to fix anything. No one can fix the players who are a problem excpet the player themselves or HTC.
AH has always had idiots spouting off in the arena and not just due to the free two week trial as we also saw them when the subscription was $30/mo. The problem is where we have had a 200-300% increase in players online. Along with that huge influx we've also saw a similar increase in idiots and jack asses. Who find that THEY have control of the environment in the arena and not HTC and they behave in any manner they wish just about.
The community is too big and most players too indifferent for the community to police itself. The solution can only come from HTC. And not soon enough either IMO.
Anyway.
Here is what HiTech said in the 'gameplay' forumn this week in answer to direct questions about the online behavior in the MA.
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43780
"My opinion is simple, but implementing my opinion is very complicated.
We can not put in our TOS that using bad language will result in the closing
of an account. The reason is simple, if we put that in the TOS it meens that
if you use 1 bad word, and anyone complains to us about it, we have no
choice but to kick that person out.
This would not be a good arrangemnt.
Rather, we leave the TOS very open that we can kick you out for any reason
we disire.
2. It is not possible for us to police the arena 24/7.
3. We do have monitors who control the situation a lot of the time. Our view is
that we want to minimize profanity in the arenas as much as possible, at the
same time we realize the difference between continual mis-use vs the occasional
frustration.
HiTech"
- Westy
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How 'bout this: Make the flight model more difficult. The more time spent trimming ac and keeping the ac flying; the less time for typing nonsence in the buffer.
Just my 2 cents.
Blutik
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Best idea so far blutik :D
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Originally posted by K West
The lack of RR arenas is not the problem. People lacking self control and behaving the way they do is.
Westy
This is the essence of it all IMHO
We all have differing standards of what is and is not acceptable behaviour even if most of us operate under a common "code". Like wise we all live up to our standards differently at different times.
So does RR draw people of differring (lower) standards of courtesy. Folks who will exercise their rights to free speach and beyond even when it may spoil the enjoyment of others.
Well in my experience the answer is .............. sadly
...............yes........... .............. still a minority but certainly a vocal one.
We can draw all sorts of conclusions (trying to link ones sim abilities with other personality traits) but it makes no difference to the actuality.
The MA whilst having the odd unpleasant experience will police its self. Create an arena where the self policing is different (higher or lower.. less or more strict) and the level of courtesy will also be different. The risk is then run that it (the other arena) is known for its level of courtesy and not its standard of game play.
I have seen this elswhere in reverse... I can remember an FR FT where novice pilots were treated far less than courteously and made to feel most unwelcome by a core group of elitist pilots.
In my opinion creating RR / FR formats (in separate arenas) is divisional and weakens the community. From a business footing if I were HTC now I would not do it.
May be when the servers are supporting a couple of thousand flyers at a time maybe...................
In the meantime we can all squelch which ever player thinks less of others enjoyment than perhaps he should.
Tilt
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Originally posted by Tumor
Why yes!! :) I knew I knew your name from somewhere. Pearl?...you didn't go on that retarded "dive a kate straight down from 30k level and launch torpedo" mission with me didja?? Heheh...it was almost as fun as it was dumb...but...it worked eh?? lol.
yep, that was me... and it was fun and very memorable....:)
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First let me say that I always squelch channel 1 and channel 6, to keep the readio traffic managable. I rarely see much on the country channel that I find offensive, and when I do, it is pretty simple to squelch the offender. (I squelch people more often for filling up the buffer with "chat" than for offensive language.)
I guess I don't see a big problem here.
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LOL I love stirring up the rif raf. :)
Dago
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I say we need permanent squelch capability within the program that is located server side. It might be to hard to make happen but I don't think it should really be that hard to implement.
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A few thoughts...
Is there actually an AH community?
If so, would it really be such a bad thing to separate those who are looking for an online arcade air combat game (and thus more likely to have arcade standards of behaviour) from those looking for a more realistic military combat simulation?
If we all support the idea of HiTec making a reasonable profit, wouldn't a RR arena do that by catering for those who come into AH and find it too hard - or too serious - and leave to play something else?
Westy put his finger on it, IMHO. It's not to do with money, it's all to do with behaviour. It's a nice idea that leading by example will educate the rif-raf and lead to higher standards, but I think it's a utopian vision in our present culture of instant gratification, absolute rights and not responsibilities.
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Maybe this is just me being stupid, but why don't u just ignore them?? If they wanna shoot their mouths off, let them do it, and just concentrate on not getting ur arse shot off by superior Bish pilots :p
Sam
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I enjoy the banter & retards calling each other names ,its pretty intertaining
Xaqut1
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"wouldn't a RR arena do that"
No. As proven by AW. I'd much rather a whole seperate product than a forced mixing of what would be essentially two different games and communities. Each feeling like the bastard step child and accusing the parents of preferential treatment towards the other. With two distinct products there can be seperate communities.
And I'd like to recommend the name "Crimson High" by HTC! :)
It not only has a strong connotation of "high school" all over it (and folks won't be so surprised by the juevinile jibber jabber they see) but it also sounds much like the name of that 1930 ish fantasy flight game by MS a couple of years ago with that yanky-banky gravity-free type of FM. ;)
Westy
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Originally posted by mrsid2
There is no need for a RR arena. The kids from AW will adapt and learn the new model.
If they won't, they're better off playing arcade boxed sims offline. That is, because in the end it's all about player skill not realism rate and the better player will always shoot them down online.
Just out of curiosity,what's with all the animosity toward ex AW's?
This AW "kiddie" has played AW for over eight years,both RR and FR,and now I'm playing Aces High since AW died.
I see all sorts of hostility towards us that seems to be unwarranted.It seems like some feel that anyone who played AW is a lower form of life.
As for a RR arena,I agree-no way.Who needs an arena where "certain planes"(not gonna start a plane flame war,lol)can make a 9g non e-bleeding reversal?
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Peoples conduct, imo, has nothing to do with what their preference is, either RR or FR. I recall beta testing the original FT (was called Full Time back then as that was the first "realism" effect that had to be tested) arena in AW when we first tried to make the move out of the half-speed, no realism, world that was AW pre-SVGA. The SVGA boxed set brought the full time, full realism abilities although it took some time before they made their way into an arena format.
AW ran the HT (Half Time) and FT arena's (the FT gradually became "full realism" as other effects were enabled such as blackouts, spins, etc) following that and there were jerks to be found in either locale. Granted, the numbers were a lot smaller then but it was simply a matter of degrees.
Also worth noting this all took place while AW was still on GEnie, and you were charged $6.00/hr to play plus $30.00 a month above that if I recall right. Again, a small community but proportionately I don't think there were any fewer mouth pieces there than here. Mind you it was much easier to police due to the small numbers. Point being though, from my experience anyway, the amount you charge or the room you corral folks into isn't going to change their nature.
Vortex
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I must admit that I was opposed to a RR arena until recently. The quality of the game community has indeed fallen sharply in recent months and I point to the closing of AW as the reason. Im an old AW'er myself and having showed up at AH about 6 months ago, I found this game to be very different. The vast majority of the people are mature and you rarely heard any whining - and in addition - NO MACROS!! I remember when Socrates first showed up (LOL, now your FAMOUS!!!) :P and it was a shock to people that someone would make the effort to squeak until he was blue in the face about how there is no way that a Spit can outturn a 190D9. :P I dont think Im alone in feeling that the quality of the community has dropped, but sadly I might be the only one who realizes that this peoblem really cant be fixed. A RR arena might come close - but your not really garaunteed to have all the lesser personalities in that arena, just the lesser sticks. The only thing IMHO that will curb this is time - sooner or later those individuals lacking behavioral quality will realize that it really isnt cool after all to whine and cuss when you get shot down and call the stick a cheater and moan about lag... everyone has the same issues and hey... maybe your NOT the best pilot in the arena. Im planning on trying out the CT myself this upcoming tour, well see if its any different in there.
"Mazz"
<--The Flying Circus-->
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
I must admit that I was opposed to a RR arena until recently. The quality of the game community has indeed fallen sharply in recent months and I point to the closing of AW as the reason.
"Mazz"
<--The Flying Circus-->
Are you trying to tell us that before we ex-AW'ers came along, there was no whiners in AH? That's B.S. and you very well know it, like I said in an earlier post, some of the biggest whiners in the game are from these so-called "AH Vets". I think part of the problem is that these "AH Vets" are quickly finding themselves on the lower rungs of the food chain now, especially since the average ex-AW pilot has more years under their belts then most of the "AH Vets" and are starting to get the kills to prove it.
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Game ops and a dedicated training corp is the glue that will bring the community together. It doesnt exist now and in my opinion that is the main reason for the "decline of civilization" in the game.
It isnt just in the MA by the way.
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Pointing to AW as the reason for this decline in community is not designed as an insult - after all, I would be insulting myself. In fact, the recent influx of members care of the closing of AW has brought whatever changes have occured in recent months, however you wish to define it. AH'ers had a freindly rivalry with the AW'ers when they arrived until (and I speak from experience) the majority of AW'ers, most of whom I knew, like or dislike, began spitting out comments along the lines of "This game sucks" "This isnt as good as AW" and my personal favorite "What did HiTech do to MY PJ!!" Well - after explaining that if the game sucks - leave - if it isnt as good - sorry - and its not a PJ - read, the BS remarks continue. Now granted - I met and have maintained many freinds from AW, all of them good people, but the arrogance of the most "vocal" of the bunch is enough to give the group as a whole a bad name. It needs to be understood that the individuals who play AH are fiercely loyal to the product that HTC has put out because of its humble beginnings and to have it directly insulted usually does not broke favorable responses. The fact remains that the two games form different mentalities about what the game itself should be, and as a result, different communities. The central issue is the personality of the member. Arrogance has no place in AH, it was commonplace in AW. I lost mine quickly when I arrived, the comment I made about time, as opposed to a RR arena fixing the community issue, is directly related to this arument. In response to your statement about many of the "AH Vets" whining - in fact you are correct, I could make a list of 5 or 6 people I absolutely cannot stand, but I think the fact that the recent influx of "new" sticks to the community has resulted in a list of whiners, immature children and adults, and ego manicas far too long for publication. Where did they come from...?
Mazz
<-TFC->
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I have been flying AH since last summer, and I agree that it is quite different now then when I first joined. I dont blame AW though.
I think the real truth of the matter is quite basic. There is a certain percentage of the population that are going to be buttholes. Lets just say its 1 out of every 25 or so. Well in the old days, there might have only been one or two on at any given time. With nearly 500 people playing these days, there would be like 20 idiots at once. Also, the actions of a few make a disproportionately large impact. Study the chat buffer next time you are in the MA. You will see that there are about maybe 10 people that are causing most of the problems. It seems like more because these people make so much noise, but actually its just a few.
The bottom line is, with more people here in total, we are going to have more problem people. Its the old 10/90 rule. Less than 10% of the people cause more than 90% of the problems. Really nothing that can be done about it. The only thing to do is just squelch them and ignore them. They will eventually go away if they realize that nobody is paying them attention. Its like when a baby cries sometimes. Ive 2 year olds stop crying when they thought that nobody could hear them, its all a play for attention many times. Other times its just a defective personality showing through. Either way, its silly to let somebody else ruin your good time, just ignore them.
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What 'problem' ?
This is just plain math.
Fewer average number of players in prime time, fewer number of tards. More average number of players in prime time, more number of tards. The bigger the soup pot, the more roaches fall in.
I expect we'll soon have detardization functions available from HTC, such as neat-o Perma-Squelch.
Until then, not much choice other than to live with the smell.
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Speaking as an RR Air Warrior....who needs RR in AH? The FM is infinitely easier to adjust to than AW's FR, which wasn't that hard in the first place, just disconcerting for the first few days.
AH is not AW and as soon as AW'ers like myself discover it, we'll stop asking for things that were in AW and get about to figuring what this game is all about and taking over ;) In the meantime, all you *oldhead* Aces need to just tune out the whining and stop adding to it with your own whining.
HTC knows what they're doing. They know what their vision for the game is and, to a certain extent, they're willing to let us all contribute ideas on how to make the game better. Just figure this out, and soon; YOU don't get to choose who belongs to the community, *IT* does.
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I'm probably going to upset some folks here, but I think it needs be said. IMHO, the problem is not the immature and offensive players, it's those who think they have some sort of claim to this game and set themselves above others. Get a clue here, HTC is a business looking for customers. The AW crowd was a boon for HTC, and other new players is the objective not an objection.
Some claim somehow that AH has gone downhill since the new players came. Well I happen to remember terrific battles and cursing going on every night. I have seen more than one so called AH vet being banned for his conduct (the last of which was against a female player from AW). AH has never been short of trouble makers, cheats and complainers. If you use your head rather than your ego, you might understand that as more players join, you will hear more offensive things being said. It's normal for this type of game and not indicative of RR players from AW. If you can't take it I suggest flying MsFS.
You all like this game? You like HTC? You want it to continue? Then I say you best start cheering every time you see a new player. Instead of complaining because of what they say or do, try to do something to help them. Go back upthread and read what Mayhem said, he was spot one and has great advice (hiyas bud =o).
And please, stop this nonesense about pricing folks out, creating a RR arena, and blaming people from AW. That kind of arrogant roadkill sucks worse than who you complain about. It ain't gonna happen, and this kind of garbage talk can only further divide the player base and lead to animosity. I came from AW and they were some of the best folks I've met online. Sorry I can't say the same for AH.
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Although this may be oversimplistic, I have a ritual when I log in. I squelch channel 1. Then, I go through a short list of pilot on my country channel and squelch them as well.
A perma squelch list would be nice, but my system works just fine until this comes about.
As for a RR arena, as said earlier, you don't want to divide the community. I saw it happen in a quite different game: Ultima Online. When all the little squeaks starting comlaining about PKs, UO created a second shard where Pking was impossible. The community was divided. Guilds were destroyed, and the population shrank. NOw UO is made of people who spend all their online time killing the same weak monsters over and over again, and decorating their little castles. There's no danger, and very little skill required. No challenge= an unplayable game. I sold my account a year ago
AH has such great attributes, that a lack of a RR will not drive most away. They wll adapt, as I did (ex-AW RR pilot) and fly on. If they find it too hard, they'll move on and that's that. AH will do nothing but grow going forward, without a RR.
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Did you ever wonder why Golf is played in a foursome?? Not a 470some. Must be that Jerk Factor. Small Group, less chance for a Jerk, Large group = more jerks.
Well, I bet everyone here voicing opinions or complaining will still be around when we have a 700 player MA.
I like AH, and I like the way its evolving. :D
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Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! This isn't AW and what worked in AW would NEVER work in AH. Get with it bud! Keeripes! : )
Drano
Sorry. I hadda! : )
Originally posted by Silat
Game ops and a dedicated training corp is the glue that will bring the community together. It doesnt exist now and in my opinion that is the main reason for the "decline of civilization" in the game.
It isnt just in the MA by the way.
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All of yas crack me up.
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A couple thoughts here:
The more people who play AH the better it is for all of us. HTC has a larger cash flow , more stuff gets done, ETC.
Some people (who have money to spend, see above) don't want realism like spins and blackouts.
How someone else wants to fly (with or without "realism") shouldn't concern the rest of us.
I don't know what the player limit is for a given arena but it is, in all probability, finite.
If the above is true, and I believe it is, then it would seem to make sense for HTC to create a no spin , no blackout, less realism arena for several reasons.
I prefer realism. There is nothing finer than makin yer opponent spin and blowin his bellybutton away or makin him blackout and take th big dirt nap but that's not what everyone wants. Who am I, indeed who are you, to tell others that they must play the way you think the game should be played? And aren't you only cutting off yer nose to spite yer face when you do ?
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Originally posted by Grizzly
I'm probably going to upset some folks here, but I think it needs be said. IMHO, the problem is not the immature and offensive players, it's those who think they have some sort of claim to this game and set themselves above others. Get a clue here, HTC is a business looking for customers. The AW crowd was a boon for HTC, and other new players is the objective not an objection.
Some claim somehow that AH has gone downhill since the new players came. Well I happen to remember terrific battles and cursing going on every night. I have seen more than one so called AH vet being banned for his conduct (the last of which was against a female player from AW). AH has never been short of trouble makers, cheats and complainers. If you use your head rather than your ego, you might understand that as more players join, you will hear more offensive things being said. It's normal for this type of game and not indicative of RR players from AW. If you can't take it I suggest flying MsFS.
You all like this game? You like HTC? You want it to continue? Then I say you best start cheering every time you see a new player. Instead of complaining because of what they say or do, try to do something to help them. Go back upthread and read what Mayhem said, he was spot one and has great advice (hiyas bud =o).
And please, stop this nonesense about pricing folks out, creating a RR arena, and blaming people from AW. That kind of arrogant roadkill sucks worse than who you complain about. It ain't gonna happen, and this kind of garbage talk can only further divide the player base and lead to animosity. I came from AW and they were some of the best folks I've met online. Sorry I can't say the same for AH.
"I love you man "
This is the voice of reason and always has been.
In AW I think we referred to having "Thick Skin".
What I am personally seeing here is the same attitude some folks deemed "FR Elitest" used in AW against RR types.
I am better therefore you must leave mentality.
Online Gaming, folks online gaming is what it is, it doesn't matter what game you go to, there will always be someone with testosterone overload and out of control.
Price has nothing to do with nothing, unless what you refer to is removing everyone from the game but a choice few. Problem is who makes that "choice Few" list>?
Whinning about Whinners is wellll,......... Whinning. If you want a sim where safisicated butler deleivers your messages to you censored the way you want it , called Geives. then you need to build your own sim and just let your close freinds fly it.
This rant can be seen on almost every game message board out there.
Yes I came from AW as well, 6-7 worth of AW. I was Game Staff, Game Tech and designed a few events among flight damage models etc... ANYWAY. We never kicked or gagged anyone unless it was a flat out personal attack. We had standards, not harsh standards, but we had enough to keep it to a minimum.
You have "Paying Customers" here, they have as much right to have fun in their own way as you or anyone else. As long as it's not a personal attack, among a few other things. Once you crossed the line you were dealt with swiftly, Zap your done.
You have people of all ages flying these online games you ***ARE*** going to have this, it just goes with the territory of online gaming. Grow thicker skin, stop being a baby.
If HTC wants to make money and continue to have a game they need to sell it to who ever wants to fly it. Personally HT doesn't like me, personally, there are reasons, but he doesn't, OTOH he doesn't stop me from flying *their* game either.
In all seriousness it can only be limited to an extent before they start losing money by limiting it to someone elses standards.
If they raise the price on it again, you will se many good people leave right along with the bad, what good does that do>? it just leaves you with less players and probably still have the same problem.
From what I see here, they don't run any arena staff, and that's too bad. When people know they can be punished for their behavior 90% of it goes away. I know when I announced myself in an arena as staff, everything got real quiet, everyone went back to just playing the game for the most part.
People have a right to squeak, people DO NOT have a right to personal attacks. This is the way "we" did it. Beleive it or not, there are a lot of emotions in the game, you have to let them vent and get it out sometimes. If there were no emotions in the game I'd venture to say the game is losing it's edge.
Again grow think skin so as a little pin salamander doesn't cause internal hemerraging. ;-)
Animal (FT)
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Originally posted by Dago
LOL I love stirring up the rif raf. :)
Dago
You arrogant pissant. Who the Hades are you calling riff-raff? What Online flight-Sim did YOU start out on? Or did you just walk into Aces High and become a God? Raise the price to $30 or $40 dollars for what? So you and your Pin-Headed attitude can reighn supreme with your disposable income whilst the rest of us low-life , working class ex-AW`ers get shut out of your perfect world? I`m sorry...I thought I was flying Dale`s great Flight sim , Not Dago`s special place in cyberspace.
Maybe HT ought to make YOU a special arena and charge YOU $40 bucks a month....just so you can be such a happy camper without the rest of us low-rent , budget strapped ex-AW`ers around. And ya know what...you`ll be the ONLY one in there I bet!:mad:
Wish this was a NNTP board....so I could Kill-file this clown. I ain`t been so PO`ed about a response in a long time.
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Animal...well said. :)
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Originally posted by KdF
Wish this was a NNTP board....so I could Kill-file this clown. I ain`t been so PO`ed about a response in a long time.
*sniffles* Amen. I miss Usenet. Web boards just plane suck, top to bottom.
Vortex
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Methinks this is becoming entirely too personal...
Mazz
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you're all a bunch of poodle-pumping diddlypuddles anyway. :D
credit to either DoK or Slug, i ferget, but it needed to be said. :p
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Originally posted by Grizzly
That kind of arrogant roadkill sucks worse than who you complain about. It ain't gonna happen, and this kind of garbage talk can only further divide the player base and lead to animosity.
With respect... What's your reaction if someone calls you arrogant and describes your opinion as 'garbage talk'? Most people dig in and defend their point of view to the death. I've done it and only later reluctantly admitted that the other guy had a point. Is it not enough to say that you personally disagree and give the reasons why? IMHO, you will win a lot more people over to your point by persuasion than abuse.
Just saying...
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Originally posted by born2flie
Speaking as an RR Air Warrior....who needs RR in AH? The FM is infinitely easier to adjust to than AW's FR, which wasn't that hard in the first place, just disconcerting for the first few days.
AH is not AW and as soon as AW'ers like myself discover it, we'll stop asking for things that were in AW and get about to figuring what this game is all about and taking over ;) In the meantime, all you *oldhead* Aces need to just tune out the whining and stop adding to it with your own whining.
HTC knows what they're doing. They know what their vision for the game is and, to a certain extent, they're willing to let us all contribute ideas on how to make the game better. Just figure this out, and soon; YOU don't get to choose who belongs to the community, *IT* does.
Leave it to a rotor-head to make the most sense :p
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Originally posted by K West
....AH has always had idiots spouting off in the arena and not just due to the free two week trial as we also saw them when the subscription was $30/mo. The problem is where we have had a 200-300% increase in players online. Along with that huge influx we've also saw a similar increase in idiots and jack asses....
- Westy
Most accurately fits my thoughts.
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Aces High is a competitive game there is always going to be some junk on channel 1. Some guys do it to get in your head, some just because they're stupid. There is no need for a new arena to try and seperate the "nice" players from the "mean" ones.
Yes, there are a lot of amazinhunks in the arena at $14.95. There were also a lot of amazinhunks in the arena at $30. We could dig up some real choices threads on this BBS of some "vets" totally losing their $h!t.
The real question is; do you have to like everyone you're flying with? I would argue that you do not.
No ranks or perk points can equate to killing a major league a-hole, especially when you know he hates dying to your guns.
Sure its the missions with squadmates and such that leave us with the nice memories and other warm fuzzy stuff. But without the amazinhunk contigent to fight against the game loses its edge.
Aces High is built on virtually killing someone else, and human nature hates losing. Whatever you do to the arena is never going to completely remove that tension. Even removing channel 1 will just force the junk to spill onto the BBS.
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Originally posted by Tjay
With respect... What's your reaction if someone calls you arrogant and describes your opinion as 'garbage talk'? Most people dig in and defend their point of view to the death. I've done it and only later reluctantly admitted that the other guy had a point. Is it not enough to say that you personally disagree and give the reasons why? IMHO, you will win a lot more people over to your point by persuasion than abuse.
Just saying...
I've seen this kind of crap more times than I care to count, and there is NO point in it other than to be devisive and cause trouble. To come out and accuse AW players of causing the problem, and to suggest a price increase to weed out the undesirable poor trash doesn't deserve any persuasion, but a squeak slap upside the head.