Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Sandman_SBM on March 09, 2001, 06:20:00 PM
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According to Shaw, gyroscopic lead computing optical sights were introduced during World War II. Quotes from Hartmann verify this.
Which aircraft were equipped with LCOS and if they are present in AH, will it be implemented?
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Tempest, P-51D, P-47D-30?, P-47D-25?, P-38L?
Spitfire MkXIV, Spitfire MkXVI, Meteor MkIII, Late Mosquito fighter?
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Spitfire F.MkXIVc to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
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This very question was asked long long ago back when Pyro and Ice worked on a different flight sim. The answer back then was no ... be interesting to see where things go this time.
Sable
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These things were reputed to be next to useless, although some pilots used them to great success. In the P-51, anyway, you had to let the sight settle for a full second before you could depend on its computation. In combat that would be difficult, especially with the 'gamey' FW turds we have in this game. Somehow, I don't think the 'real' LW pilots were flipping and flopping their FW's the way we see them online.
Always brings a grin on my face watching them burn their E away. Dweebs! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Yeah Voss. I mean, we have the flip flop, you 13TH TAS guys have the amzingly skillfull and courageous "eeeeek, run run run" tactics (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
It will be a tad bit harder to execute now that the Dora is out (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
Bash the 190, and I shall bash the P-51! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Leave my girl alone! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://stsanta.tripod.com/stSanta.jpg)
"Live to pull, pull to live"
[This message has been edited by StSanta (edited 03-10-2001).]
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So Voss, when you finish coding the definitive WW2 air combat sim, I take it that the Fw190 will have a slower roll rate?
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
Chapter 13, verse 11
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No Jekyll, but I will model pilot fatigue. :P
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Taken from page 80 of Spitfire - Flying Legend, Published by Osprey Aerospace:
Gyro Gunsight
In his volume Late Marque Spitfire Aces 1942-45 (published by Osprey in 1995), Dr Alfred Price detailed just how the Mk II Gyro Gunsight, developed by the Royal Aircraft Establishment at Farnborough, and put to good effect by "Sammy" Sampson to achieve his fourth (and last) kill of the war, worked in combat;
'This device was a great improvement over the GM 2 reflector sight, and operated on the principal that if a fighter pilot followed an enemy aircraft in a turn and held his gunsight on the latter, his rate of turn was proportional to the deflection angle required to hit the target. A gyroscope measured his rate of turn, and tilted a mirror which moved the position of the sighting graticule to show the required deflection angle. The required deflection varied with range, however, so the gunsight incorporated a simple system of optical rangefinding. Before the engagement the pilot set the aproximate wingspan of the enemy aircraft. As he closed on his foe, the pilot operated a control mounted on the throttle arm which altered the diameter of the sighting graticule so that the size matched the wingspan of the enemy aircraft. Since the wingspan of the target aircraft had been set on the sight, the adjustment of the graticule "told" the gunsight the range of the target. An analogue computer in the gunsight worked out the correct point ahead of the target at which the pilot should aim in order to score hits.
'Once fighter pilots got used to the new sight, and learned its foibles, the general accuracy of deflection shooting improved dramatically. During 1944 an analysis of 130 combats by Spitfire Mk IXs fitted with fixed-graticule sights revealed that there had been 34 kills - 26 per cent of the total. During the same period, one squadron operating the same Spitfire variant fitted with the new gunsight took part in 38 combats, scoring 19 kills - 50 per cent of the total. The new gunsight virtually doubled the effectiveness of air-to-air gunnery. With the new sight pilots reported scoring hits on evading targets at ranges as great as 600 yards, and at deflection angles of up to 50º.'
I don't think the gunsights could be defined as "next to useless", but maybe the British and American sights were different.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Spitfire F.MkXIVc to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
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I have been wondering about this one too after i played Mig Alley. Anyone that wants to see how effective the gyroscopic sight is in a sim should try mig ally by Rowan Interactive. Even though this is a jet sim the p51 is also included w/ the gyroscopic sight. It seems to help with deflection shots in H2h in this game.
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THe germans had one dribbling into use at the end of the war too. it was used in D9s
the EZ42..
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StSanta. For, I think, the first time (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I agree with you. The 190 stick stir, is back with a vengeance.
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HT or Pyro was asked about this some time ago. He said he didn't care for the feature and was not going to put it in AH. He had considerable familiarity with it in AW.
I too want it but don't figure I'll ever see it here.
Mav
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I think such a gunsight is a virtual necessity in AH. I also think it would greatly improve gameplay, considering how insanely difficult the gunnery is. Heck, maybe it would even reduce the reliance on the 4-cannon "spray-o-matic" planes (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(I have been SOOOOOO tempted to use a 4-cannon laser plane, knowing i would get more kills....but I resist.)
I would LOVE to have a LCOS gunsight available in AH. Since AH IS modeling a 1944-1945 planeset, I see no reason NOT to include it--it was, after all, available at the time. Indeed, these sights were quite a bit more widespread than many of the aircraft in AH (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I vote YES for the LCOS.
J_A_B
EDIT: Maybe even make it a "perk gunsight" (meaning that tounge-in-cheek).Seriously, add it. It would be the single best improvement to AH, ever.
[This message has been edited by J_A_B (edited 03-10-2001).]
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The analog norden bombsight...zero error in computation.
The analog LCOS gunsight...... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I checked out AW a while back. Point and shoot, no fun.
<S>IC
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Well, I wouldn't want to condemn the K-14 or similar sights just from accounts I have read in the past. You would think that with a little experience this type of sight would offer an advantage. I do remember reading negative comments on combat use, though.
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Comparing AW to AH is of limited value at best. Even when not using the LCOS in AW gunnery is easy. AW's flight model is VASTLY more stable than in AH.
I think LCOS would be a wonderful addition to AH.
J_A_B