Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: Exile on January 27, 2002, 11:01:36 AM
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http://events.simladder.com/tod_results_sat.php?tour_id=10&frame=2
There was only 1 orphaned pilot: ManeTMP. I'm impressed guys. ;) If you want to claim him, let me know and I'll take care of it.
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Exile, CM"s please note and adjust score:
A squaddie posted :
After looking throught he Sat Tod results from frame 1, Various results are shown on how a flight ended ie "Mysteriously disappeared", "Lands to refuel/rearm", "Captured by enemy forces" and "Unknown" the latter which presumably covers discos.
Also of particular note is "Shot down"
My reason for posting this is as follows, regarding the "Round table" squad did they realise it was a 1 life event ?
Others may have been at fault as well cant be asked to check but after looking to see who shot our squad down in our bootiful 190f8's i noticed that between 3 of there players, Shane, Iron2 and Seeker they managed to use a total of 7 spitfires after being reported as shot down.
Iron2 was reported as "shot down" twice and was still flying at the end total of 3 spitfires used.
Seeker was reported as "Shot down" once total of 2 spitfires flown.
Shane was reported as "Shot down" twice total of 2 spitfires flown.
Of particular note for Rip, Vladd who shot Rip had already been reported as shot down once and was on his second Typhoon when he got Rip.
Maybe i missed something and this has already been noted and or discussed, but it seems a lot of them aircraft that bounced us were being piloted by ghosts
Note I am assuming of course that discos would be reported as the "Unknown" or "Mysteriously disappeared" options.
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Hi exile, Manetmp flew witrh the 332 vikings, GA's squad.
Thx for the quick results!
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Exile, CM"s please note and adjust score:
A squaddie posted : ... Various results are shown on how a flight ended ie "Mysteriously disappeared",...
Well I do know what happened with one of the "Mysteriously disappeared" flight endings, because my husband, Zeb dumped at the beginning of yesterday's frame - this is how his flight is shown to have ended.
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Originally posted by -ammo-
Hi exile, Manetmp flew witrh the 332 vikings, GA's squad.
Thx for the quick results!
added to roster and he is showing in results now
thx
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Round Table pales in comparison to 332 Sqn. The Vikings used 22 planes for 8 guys. That's gotta be a record. :)
Also the only points they earned were negative points for team killing, but it shows them with positive points on the totals.
Looks like there was a bug in the scoring on this one.
I can't imagine Vikings (experienced TOD unit) cheating like that, I don't remember Round Table saying anything about taking off again.
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After looking throught he Sat Tod results from frame 1, Various results are shown on how a flight ended ie "Mysteriously disappeared", "Lands to refuel/rearm", "Captured by enemy forces" and "Unknown" the latter which presumably covers discos.
Also of particular note is "Shot down"
My reason for posting this is as follows, regarding the "Round table" squad did they realise it was a 1 life event ?
Others may have been at fault as well cant be asked to check but after looking to see who shot our squad down in our bootiful 190f8's i noticed that between 3 of there players, Shane, Iron2 and Seeker they managed to use a total of 7 spitfires after being reported as shot down.
Iron2 was reported as "shot down" twice and was still flying at the end total of 3 spitfires used.
Seeker was reported as "Shot down" once total of 2 spitfires flown.
Shane was reported as "Shot down" twice total of 2 spitfires flown.
Of particular note for Rip, Vladd who shot Rip had already been reported as shot down once and was on his second Typhoon when he got Rip.
Maybe i missed something and this has already been noted and or discussed, but it seems a lot of them aircraft that bounced us were being piloted by ghosts
Note I am assuming of course that discos would be reported as the "Unknown" or "Mysteriously disappeared" options.
I remember Seeker saying he thought he was upping in a gunner position, but accidentally upped in his previous ride. The time between take-off and landing reflect this.
I'll bring up the issue of people taking off after having been shot down with Daddog.
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If you look at the Round Table page it shows only FDutchmn using more than one plane, and he lost it from "unknown" which is probably a disco. So there is definitely some kind of bug going on.
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Could be a bug of some sort in reporting i guess, or a misunderstanding of the rules is possible.
Either way i dont wanna fly escort near the Vikings, hell one of them is credited with killing 3 of his wingies :)
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Looking at the logs for Viking Squad, somebody needs to tell them this is a one life event. Even allowing for pilots shot down by friendlies to re-up. The following pilots upped illegally after being killed.
Bozon Once
Clouds Twice
Duvel Twice
iceydee Twice
Selector Once
Swap Once
GA I think you owe us an explanation. I'm stunned at this since my squad CO was not allowed re-up after a disco even though it was less that t+45. To see this makes me rather mad. Hopefully there is however a logical and sane explanation??
__________________
Flt.Lt.Gremlin
Firebirds, 56 "Fighter" Sqn RAF.
Second Tactical Air Force
(http://www.btinternet.com/~nexx/56sig.gif)
"Quid si coelum ruat - 'What if heaven falls?'"
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Originally posted by funkedup
If you look at the Round Table page it shows only FDutchmn using more than one plane, and he lost it from "unknown" which is probably a disco. So there is definitely some kind of bug going on.
I had a CTD when I tried to get on the runway. I came back up after informing the CM that I had a CTD.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Exile, CM"s please note and adjust score:
Shane was reported as "Shot down" twice total of 2 spitfires flown.
yes, quite right old chap. :) the incident of what occurred is quite simply attributed to a graphics bug - to wit, the re-arm tower was not in any frontal aspect of the mossie (re-arm pad was crowded), the tower appeared right in front of my nose, no way to get around it or back up (lazy ground crew) so i explained situation to tilt, then i tried to ease around it and of course busted my wing off, :rolleyes: meanwhile, tilt had given me permission to re-up which i gratefully took. :D
say wot? crumpets with that tea?
:)
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Originally posted by Shane
yes, quite right old chap. :) the incident of what occurred is quite simply attributed to a graphics bug - to wit, the re-arm tower was not in any frontal aspect of the mossie (re-arm pad was crowded), the tower appeared right in front of my nose, no way to get around it or back up (lazy ground crew) so i explained situation to tilt, then i tried to ease around it and of course busted my wing off, :rolleyes: meanwhile, tilt had given me permission to re-up which i gratefully took. :D
say wot? crumpets with that tea?
:)
You should not been allowed to reup. If the rearm pad is crowded then you wait the 30 seconds for your compatriots to load and move off of it. Or half of you could stay up and cover the other squad while they reload and then land.
Point is though, if you crash your AC on taxiing, then its a wrap for you.
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Then surely the the same should also apply to the Vikings who managed to blow each other up? Both are deaths due to mistakes/carelessness. I dont see the difference:confused:
Gremlin
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well yes, but its water under the bridge now for both shane and the vikings. Basically what I am going to start doing is opening flight for a very brief amount of time in the beginning. I will ask CO's if they have squads that are roling a little late for mission effectiveness and I will accomodate those. Others will have a very short amount of time to get on the runway. I will anounce how much time you have in the event. I need CO's and participants to be honest more than anything. I told too amny people "no I am sorry you cannot reup" to have others be able to abd then let this happen regularly. If I was snorkey, oblittoo, etc, etc... that I told no on Saturday then I would be a little perturbed.
This is really hard for us to police up. First, if we are not made aware of it, then we just dont know till after the fact. The incident with the vikings was unfortunate. they certainly had an accident and it killed all of them for the most part. If I had been made aware of it at that time I probably would have allowed them to roll again, simply because it would have ruined the gameplay for the opposing squad set in the design to meet them. and given the nature of the event. Buit now I dont know. Seeing all the comments from fellow vet CM's and players makes me think. However for those that are quick to dole out judgement, put yourself in the shoews of the vikings on Saturday, what would you have us do?
There is some basic stuff for aprticipants to have to know. They gotta be profficient at taking off, landing, known graghics issues, patience.... If you want to rush and take a shortcut, then expect murphy to strike. Murphy's law is definately in effect in TOD.
Know that for 2-part missions that require you to jettison ord for part 1, that you CAN release bombs on the runway without a problem, but this does not include rockets and guns. Make sure that yoiu have selected the correct weapon. Also make sure before you hit that spawn buitton that you have the right loadout...mainly fuel. Dont ask CM's to let you reup becauise you forgot one of these basic things.
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Ammo,
I suppose no matter what decision you make your gonna upset someone. It's a thankless job, I don't envy you it. Your doin it damn well and all cms.
Is there a CM on duty specifically to rule on re-ups, perhaps there should be. Either way any1 re-uppin without explicit cm permission should automatically lose any points gained thereafter and also incur a penalty. People also have to realised that cm's decision is final, whether they like it or not.
Your right in that it would have been a dull frame for whoever was to meet the vikings.
One suggestion which might help even things out in the numbers game. What if one side had significantly less numbers than the other at the start. e.g if axis were 10 pilots short of allies. Why not allow the first 10 axis to be killed to re-up? Saying that it does sound like a bit of an admin nitemare. So prolly bad idea.
Gremlin.
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GA I think you owe us an explanation. I'm stunned at this since my squad CO was not allowed re-up after a disco even though it was less that t+45. To see this makes me rather mad. Hopefully there is however a logical and sane explanation??
"This is also posted earlyier;) under DD post
"
I sincerly apologize for this insident
Im the CO for the 332nd Viking Squad and have ben on almoust every US and euro TOD last year, so i should know that one life is one life!.
We had a trigger happy Guest among us that evening, and he fired a rocket when all the Vikings were on the Runway that happend 10 sec after otr, but I did not get that it was a second time that someone in my squad was reuping for a second time!.
I should have informed the CM of what happend, but i was so eeger and being the CO for the LW and command my squad at the same time that i did not think that we were scrued for this event after the rocked insident!.
This wil never happen again, and i applogise again for this.
"Its a shame that we take with us Guest who maybe are new to the game and wreck it for the entery Squad, like this insident!
Like this one he did not mean it tho so i dont realy blame him!.
It was bad timing and real bad luck;).
Why not just say that this is only a Squad event???"
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GA,
I wouldn't worry yourself too much. I'm sure everyone knows that you and your squad are above any wrongdoing.
Thx for taking the time to reply,
________________
Flt.Lt.Gremlin
Firebirds, 56 "Fighter" Sqn RAF.
Second Tactical Air Force
(http://www.btinternet.com/~nexx/56sig.gif)
"Quid si coelum ruat - 'What if heaven falls?'"
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Phuuu thx Gremlin;)
Thougt we were heading out from TOD now;), banned and come never back again:D
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If that happened it would be the TOD's loss GA
Gremlin.
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;)
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On another note, it appears that the 412th aren't shown in the scoring for Frame 1 (or two). Can this be fixed please? :)
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Originally posted by Blue Mako
On another note, it appears that the 412th aren't shown in the scoring for Frame 1 (or two). Can this be fixed please? :)
I don't see anyone on your roster. I post these "orphanded pilots" threads after each frame asking people to update their rosters...
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43603
You have to have your pilots listed on the roster which is maintained on the Events site: http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39271
These are the only pilots that are not associated with a squad in the results:
7SinS
Buzzbait
clouds
FulzGold
jonnyb
Sarge1
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Clouds was with us, 332nd vikins a guest
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And Sarge1;) was with us on this TOD;).
I had added these Gents to the TOD roster tho??
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Originally posted by Exile
These are the only pilots that are not associated with a squad in the results:
7SinS
FulzGold
jonnyb
These 3 are all 412th members. On the day only 7sins didn't have an invite to the squad as we didn't have someone with invite priv's on at the time. I guess Midnight hasn't updated the roster on the events page yet, he has been very busy with RL stuff. I'll remind him again and see if someone can get access in addition to Midnight.
Thanks for bearing with us, there isn't much we can do if our CO is bz atm.
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Everyone accounted for except Buzzbait ... not sure what to do with that guy. ;)
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S! Exile
I jumped on a CV at one point and manned a gun....
Was worried it was set up for too easy a kill... (that was the first week, not the second and had to do with the switching of AK to the German side without my knowing about it)
Put me in the Gunner's Squad if you want.
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Ripsnort, I do believe you're calling me a cheat; in public, without so much as the courtesy of mentioning to either myself or the CM's discretely the cause of your concern.
What's your Email? I'll send you the frame film, then we'll see if you're man enough to apologise.
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If your referring to this
Seeker was reported as "Shot down" once total of 2 spitfires flown
then its available for all to see in the frame results.
The only question was why 2 spitfires when its a 1 life event, Shane explained his occured after he collided with the Refuel pad tower and was allowed to reup, not his fault but as it was his fault he collided with it then by rights as already stated by some of the CM's he shouold not have been given permission to roll again.
CM's have already stated if you have a problem and reup you need to ask them, as became obvious with the Vikings they all rolled without asking at initial roll and that has been addressed without problem or using the word cheat. In fact i think you are possibly the first to use that word in this thread.
For all we know the CM's are aware of why you used 2 spitfires after being reported as shot down in one, if they do and are happy then nuff said, we dont have to know but i think we are allowed to query what appears to be discrepancys in the posted results.
Remember the stated rules for the TOD is 1 life , 1 plane.
To start with we all assumed this was gonna be some error in the reporting.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Vladd who shot Rip had already been reported as shot down once and was on his second Typhoon when he got Rip.
Rip,
Vladd, got permission to RTB so that he could he could give me invite privledges for the firebirds. At the time there were a couple of pilots in our squad not on the squad roster.
Due respect rip, u might consider asking the pilots concerned for an explanation rather than calling on the CM's to adjust score. You were effectively accusing the Allied CO for that frame of cheating.
Although, I don't blame ya m8, all us allied are just dweebs:)
__________________
Flt.Lt.Gremlin
Firebirds, 56 "Fighter" Sqn RAF.
Second Tactical Air Force
(http://www.btinternet.com/~nexx/56sig.gif)
"Quid si coelum ruat - 'What if heaven falls?'"
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214th, is your name Ripsnort?
No? Then you were not being addressed. However, to answer your point, result queiries would be direct to the CM's. Public declamations such as Ripsnort's post with my name in bold text are merely blanket accusations of cheating without having the balls even to say so directly.
I'm still waiting for Ripsnort's address. Do you have it?
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Seeker,
I'm sure Rip didn't mean any offence. He's one of the good guys. So are you. Surely you can see how at first glance seeing multiple re-ups on the score page would make one see red. I know it made me flip! Perhaps anyone who re-ups for valid proper resons should be obliged to post in a thread explaining why?
Whadd'ya think CM's. Would save any mis-understandings l8r.
Lets not have a flame war over this guys, its not worth it.
Gremlin.
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Gremlin,
There's already been a public explanation, on this very board, over a week ago, in this thread:
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=43644&referrerid=710
I would have thought any one without an axe to grind would check the facts before making public accusations.
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Originally posted by 214thCavalier
As a CM I gave both Shane and Seeker permission to reup. Shane was claiming a bug and upon inspection the re arm pad cabin did seem to be distorted. He claimed it to be invisible to him. I took him on his word. I take every one here on their honour until proven otherwise...............
Seeker never took off in either of his "additional" Spitfires. He was trying to spawn as a gunner and kept upping in the spit either by error or by bug. However he was asking for assistance to get himself to the gunner spot. He then realised (I think) that the gunner spot was on the carrier and found his own way there. Actually I made no arena changes during this episode.
It was I who instructed Vladd to rtb (from the runway) to ensure that Cjay was properly enroled in his squad.
Iron2 volunteered that he had re spawned and asked if it was ok and what should he do........... he augered immediately upon my request to do so.
I logged all of ripsnorts squaddies re up claims and others with explanations (plus questions re other re ups that to my knowledge were unauthorised or un noted) in the CM forum on the Monday after the TOD in question.
I can state that IMHO all the players listed in that particular list behaved both properly and honourably.
for what its worth
Tilt
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Question
Ref the 'hit the fuel hut and allowed to re-up' can I please have a ruling on pilots breaking their planes on the runway (landing) and 'walking away' with a 'landed safely' message.
We had two pilots with this problem last Saturday and interpreted the rules to mean 'no re-up' and they did the right thing. However, having read many of the previous posts, I would like confirmation of the ruling under these circumstances.
Thanks,
klem
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Ref:
After looking throught he Sat Tod results from frame 1, Various results are shown on how a flight ended ie "Mysteriously disappeared", "Lands to refuel/rearm", "Captured by enemy forces" and "Unknown" the latter which presumably covers discos.
Also of particular note is "Shot down"
My reason for posting this is as follows, regarding the "Round table" squad did they realise it was a 1 life event ?
Others may have been at fault as well cant be asked to check but after looking to see who shot our squad down in our bootiful 190f8's i noticed that between 3 of there players, Shane, Iron2 and Seeker they managed to use a total of 7 spitfires after being reported as shot down.
Iron2 was reported as "shot down" twice and was still flying at the end total of 3 spitfires used.
Seeker was reported as "Shot down" once total of 2 spitfires flown.
Shane was reported as "Shot down" twice total of 2 spitfires flown.
Of particular note for Rip, Vladd who shot Rip had already been reported as shot down once and was on his second Typhoon when he got Rip.
Maybe i missed something and this has already been noted and or discussed, but it seems a lot of them aircraft that bounced us were being piloted by ghosts
Note I am assuming of course that discos would be reported as the "Unknown" or "Mysteriously disappeared" options.
SEEKER no my name is not Ripsnort, yes i have his address but theres not a snowballs chance i will give anybodys email address out without prior permission.
This post was originally posted in our squad page by me as a heads up to Rip over what appeared to be unexplained discrepancies , so i feel perfectly entitled to reply to any comments referring to it.
Rip obviously read it and did a quick copy and paste over here adding his own comment. Which i might add nobody else has taken offence over, but maybe if he took more time over it he could have phrased it better to avoid any risk of offending you.
May i suggest you take a few deep breaths and RELAX.
Shane simply replied explaining what happened, end of query no histrionics or foot stamping involved.
Although regarding Shanes "graphics bug" his own post in this thread explains "the rearm pad was crowded" that aint a bug that was his choice trying to crowd onto it and as such he should not have rolled again. But that has already been discussed in this very thread, he got away with it the CM gave him permission lucky him no problem with it.
Also in this very thread near the top Exile posted the reasons for your apparent reupping, again no problem another discrepancy that the CM's were aware of.
Maybe you should have read the entire thread carefully ?
Did you also miss this section in the original post ? Maybe i missed something and this has already been noted and or discussed
I put that in for the very reason I was aware i dont know everything that gets posted on this bbs, a simple yes it has been here is the thread would have worked great, which i see you have now posted anyway.
Cm's made the decisions and stand by them, thats good enough for me.
In the original post I also mentioned I was looking to see who shot us down, noted some apparent discrepancies and said others may have been at fault as well but i cant be asked to check, guess what the Vikings arrived :)
Now i dont expect anybody to be perfect not Rip , nor you, well maybe me :) not even the CM's especially when we have a lot of new CM's learning the ropes.
It is unfortunate that Rips Highlighting started with your name i guess but i would not read anything into that as he just started highlighting at the start of the line.
So to end everything had already been explained and debated before you took offence, have a drink, relax and get ready for another fun flight on Saturday !
Ah i see the deviation from the absolute rule of if you break it your out, has prompted Klem to request clarification re if you break your plane on landing can we reup ?
Klem the answer until now has always been a resounding NO!
I suspect it will rightly remain so as the idea is to try and make the Tods a more realistic and intense experience than your average night in the MA.
Break it your out has to be applied but by all means ask the duty CM to give a ruling you may get lucky :)
Balls of steel and deaf ears is a prerequisite for a CM position :)
Although i still think a mass Fubar at frame roll has to be a CM call as it would affect the experience detrimentally for everybody involved. Just be sure to ask them.
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Originally posted by Exile
Everyone accounted for except Buzzbait ... not sure what to do with that guy. ;)
And me! I'm not shown on the score page for the 412th. I was there, honest! ;)
[EDIT] I just found myself listed under MAG-33. They had initially ofered me a spot before Midnight signed up the 412th so I guess that's why.
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Thank you 214thCavalier for the clarification.
Reading through the threads it becomes hard to detect where people have deliberately tried it on. Who could predict the rocket incident (did he buy a round?) and would the frame have benefitted from leaving them dead and out? I doubt it. It was hardly KIA was it? I wonder though about a second bomb dropping incident (if I understood that correctly). Once is unfortunate, twice is ..........
Seeing several re-ups in the scores definitely gets the blood boiling when you've seen your own buddies voluntarily take the walk after breaking their plane even though 'landed safely', so I guess CMs have to expect these inquests. I just ask you to carefully record re-up requests etc. and any side not keeping to the rules/decisions on the night should be HEAVILY penalised. Also when, say, one guy is refused a re-up after a lockup within T+45 ( permitted on the night ) but someone else is allowed to re-up because he ploughed through the fuel shack (just an example) it means that CMs must be determined and consistent in applying the rules.
the CMs though for their great work in setting these things up and managing them. I can't be easy when it's hot and running.
Hope to be in the next frame.
klem
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Originally posted by Blue Mako
And me! I'm not shown on the score page for the 412th. I was there, honest! ;)
[EDIT] I just found myself listed under MAG-33. They had initially ofered me a spot before Midnight signed up the 412th so I guess that's why.
Your sorties are now showing with your squad.
I just checked the roster for the 412th and it's empty. Could you remind Midnight to get everyone on there for the frame this weekend?
thx
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I have sent an email to Midnight asking just that.
Exile, you are a gentleman and a scholar, thank you for putting up with us. :cool:
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Of particular note for Rip, Vladd who shot Rip had already been reported as shot down once and was on his second Typhoon when he got Rip.
As alluded to, I had CM permission to exit plane very soon after launch because we had a squaddie sitting in the tower who had not been 'officially' invited into the SEA squad. I was the only one with invite privs and Tilt told me to exit and invite him in.
No one shot me down.
Vladd
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Originally posted by Vladd
As alluded to, I had CM permission to exit plane very soon after launch because we had a squaddie sitting in the tower who had not been 'officially' invited into the SEA squad. I was the only one with invite privs and Tilt told me to exit and invite him in.
Just had a thought about that.... why was it necessary to exit to invite someone to the squad? I thought a .sqdinvite GameID could be done anywhere? Don't have to be on the ground like we did in AW.... ;)