Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Tjay on January 27, 2002, 11:59:24 AM
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This is put forward as an idea. Whinestapo members please goose step out right now. Auf Wiedersehen Herr Oberleutnant!
The ENY rating system means that if you shoot down a 'superior' plane with an 'inferior' one, you get more perk points. It's a good incentive.
What if doing so was also reflected in your K/D ratio on a sliding scale? E.g., shooting down a P51 in a 202 would be counted as 1.5 kills and the P51 driver would score 1.5 deaths for permitting such humiliation. If the P51 driver shoots down the 202 he gets only 0.75 (or something) of a kill and the 202 pilot only rates 0.75 of a death.
I feel that would result in a more diffuse range of planes being seen in the AW skies - which is what most people seem to want.
Constructive replies only please. No, Herr Oberleutnant, you CAN NOT come back in.
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you spend too much time worried about score......
kill 1 plane get 1 kill recorded..........
we need no affirmitive action programs for early war birds
we need no welfare perk system for late war planes
No equalitarianism in ah
Life is unfair so is ah ............so what..........
No free lunch
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Originally posted by Wotan
you spend too much time worried about score......
kill 1 plane get 1 kill recorded..........
we need no affirmitive action programs for early war birds
we need no welfare perk system for late war planes
No equalitarianism in ah
Life is unfair so is ah ............so what..........
No free lunch
So everything is perfect because you say so. I do NOT worry about my score. So you disagree with the suggestion. Why not just say so? Remarks about life being unfair and 'no free lunch' are simply juvenile.
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i did say so.....
are you blind.....?
every week you come with some "suggestion" each one more dumb then the one before.
You made the post if you cant deal with what others think about your "suggestions" dont make umm.
If you weren't worried about your score then why would be worried about how k/d is scored.
Now you resort to name calling because I think your "suggestion" is stupid. Just like your perk whine.
No free lunch.....even for guys with dumb "suggestions"
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I agree with Wotan.
1 kill == 1 kill
If you killed a vastly superior aircraft than the aircraft you were flying, congratulations, enjoy the feeling of the accomplishment and the extra perk points but don't expect a better K/D because of it.
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Yep, 1 kill = 1 kill, but killing a Typh in your 202 could give you more points, not useless perkpoints, just normal points.
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
Yep, 1 kill = 1 kill, but killing a Typh in your 202 could give you more points, not useless perkpoints, just normal points.
That is the point I was making.
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Wotan, that's a nasty case of chip on shoulder and personality disorder you've got there.
Things are so because you say so. Suggestions you don't agree with are dumb. Why are you so aggressive? Can't you make your point of view known without laying down the law each time and slagging off ANYONE who suggests ANY change to the status quo.
When we were young we got all our nourishment at our mothers' breast. It was fine at the time. I suspect you are still there. Post a pic.
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i told you my opinion if you dont like it dont read it.
who did I say i am speaking for?
where did I say I spoke for anyone?
all your suggestions have the same theme.
well my opinion is ......
No free lunch................
reread what you wrote and what mandoble wrote..........
thats hardly your point.........
you made the "suggestion" I told you what I (me not anyone but me) thought of it.
You attempted to insult me and apparently had trouble comprehending that I was opposed to your "suggestion" so I spelled it out as clear as can be
1 kill = 1 kill
anything else is stupid...........
What ever complex you have as to my dislike for your "suggestions" is in your head..
you spend too much time worried about score......
kill 1 plane get 1 kill recorded..........
we need no affirmitive action programs for early war birds
we need no welfare perk system for late war planes
No equalitarianism in ah
Life is unfair so is ah ............so what..........
No free lunch
where in this post is there any claim of authority or where is it I am speaking for any body else.
Your the one bringing euro-trash style socialism into ah
"more perks awarded to those who don't have the skill to earn umm"
"1 1/2 kills for guys who are at a disadvantage because of the planes they choose to fly"
My response ...........No free lunch.....
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I agree 1 kill = 1 kill recorded no need to massage the figures.
I feel that would result in a more diffuse range of planes being seen in the AW skies - which is what most people seem to want
But as i appear to be the only one so far to actually read your post accurately, i feel its academic as I dont give a sheet whats happening in AW as i am flying AH :)
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yep... like things to mean what they say. kills per death should remain kills per death. Start a whole new stat if you wish but leave something as simple as kills per death alone.
What's next, a modifiyer for K/T? the slower planes get a higher scale? How bout gunnery?
lazs
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So said the virgin on high school:
If I do with the schools gardener, I will be 0.5 pregnant.
If I do it with the captain of the football team, I will be 1.5 pregnant.:p
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Whinestapo members please goose step out right now. Auf Wiedersehen Herr Oberleutnant!
What is this roadkill? You knew you would get flamed and thought you would sling some toejam first?
A kill is a kill; a kill is not 1.5 kills.
F.
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I agree with T-Jay! Great Idea but as you can see it is ingested by some and then out spews hostility.
TJay, keep on thinking and fowarding your ideas. I realize you are attempting to make the game better. Some personalities just try to crap on any type of idea that they are not in 100% agreement with. They are the "tunnel-visioners"! But they are needed also. Sota of like a "checks and balances" technique. I for one would much rather read someone's idea, regardless of quality, than to listen to someone's negitivity. Which is the attitude present on this particular post. :(
I also believe 'a kill is a kill", but your idea would show more non-uber aircraft in the arena. Most people who fly here are more intrested in the K/D than the perk. So your idea has merit but it will not be accepted. Good try, though and keep them coming!!
:)
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Poony did you actually think about what you were saying when you were typing? Or were you just jumping to the aid of someone who stepped on his own meat with this suggestion?
If you start a sliding scale for K/D based on which kite yer flyin you destroy that stat, period.
There's already a sliding scale on the perk system and IMO it works nicely, though also IMO it still needs a few tweaks here and there.
The reason you don't see people flying the "non-uber" kites is because, first and foremost, they want to kill. They're going to grab the kite that will let them kill the highest number of kites before they are shot down themselves.
Tjay I want some of what you were smokin and not sharing when ya came up with this one :D
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Originally posted by 214thCavalier
I agree 1 kill = 1 kill recorded no need to massage the figures.
But as i appear to be the only one so far to actually read your post accurately, i feel its academic as I dont give a sheet whats happening in AW as i am flying AH :)
Damned typo.:mad:
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Poony.
Thanks for your support. Also for taking the trouble to read the original post carefully. Not to mention risking the wrath of the Whinestapo.
The POSSIBILITY of biasing the K/D ratio is just ONE possible way of encouraging more people to fly planes other than the usual suspects. Perhaps those who agree with that basic aim but feel strongly that messing with the K/D ratio is not the answer, would like to suggest an alternative?
Those who don't believe that 'affirmative action' is necessary for a wider range of types to be seen more often in the MA would like to say why rather than just make bald, unsupported statements.
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ok... like all decent and perceptive human beings I dislike the luftweenies but... I fail to see what their whining has to do with this topic.
lazs
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Originally posted by CavemanJ
If you start a sliding scale for K/D based on which kite yer flyin you destroy that stat, period.
There's already a sliding scale on the perk system and IMO it works nicely, though also IMO it still needs a few tweaks here and there.
The reason you don't see people flying the "non-uber" kites is because, first and foremost, they want to kill. They're going to grab the kite that will let them kill the highest number of kites before they are shot down themselves.
Tjay I want some of what you were smokin and not sharing when ya came up with this one :D
Caveman.
Yes, a sliding scale for K/D would destroy that stat, and as replies to my post have shown, that would be unpopular with a lot of people. That's fine by me - you have to discard certain ideas before getting to the best one.
I know why people don't fly the less than 'uber' kites, but I have seen many posts lamenting that fact and proposing various changes to address it. Do you agree with that? It seems many players are unhappy to see the vast majority of people flying the La7, N1K1, Spit 9 and FW 190, and would like to see some incentive scheme introduced to address it. (I have no very strong opinions about it myself.)
And at the risk of repetition, I was not saying that a change to the K/D system - or even to the scoring system - was in itself desirable, merely that it would ONE WAY to address something that seems to be a common subject of debate.
And no, you can't have any of it. Do you know how what it costs and how hard it is to get hold of in England?;)
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Tjay I pretty much don't care what people fly. I fly what I want to fly and expect them to do the same.
Now, that being said, am i gonna call them a skill-less dweeb for flyin the la7? oh yeah, you bet!
Am I still gonna strafe thier chute if they bailed out of an N1K2-J?
Damn right I am!
The only thing I'd like to see happen is the La7 become a cheap perk, like 5-6 points. It out performs most of the current perk kites at the typical MA furball alts.
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Originally posted by lazs2
ok... like all decent and perceptive human beings I dislike the luftweenies but... I fail to see what their whining has to do with this topic.
lazs
Sorry Laz, I wasn't trying to associate what I call the Whinestapo with the Luftwaffe or those who favour LW aircraft. My mistake.
Perhaps I should call them the KG Be Negative. But that might upset La7 drivers. :( But I do get fed up with those that a) write as if their opinions are the only sensible ones and anyone who differs is a moron and b) consider that any suggestions that any aspect of the game might be changed is a 'whine' because the poster finds the exisiting arrangements uncomfortable. HT obviously don't feel that way because they are continually upgrading and improving the product.
And as changes affect everyone equally it would be impossible for any adoption to benefit any individual. Something that seems beyond the grasp of some...
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Originally posted by Furious
What is this roadkill? You knew you would get flamed and thought you would sling some toejam first?
A kill is a kill; a kill is not 1.5 kills.
F.
Furious.
Right on! One thing I've picked up - if in doubt, draw first.:D In this case there wasn't even any doubt.
Your second point: Yes, at the moment a kill is a kill. But that isn't written in stone anywhere. Progress is entirely dependent on unreasonable people like me who are prepared to question the status quo. (E.g. It was the pansy morons whining about the heat that lead to the introduction of air conditioning in autos.)
And progress obviously means change. And some people hate change.
So the general consensus is that messing with the K/D ratio is not the way to encourage people to fly the less than uber planes. Fine. No problems for me at all. Any alternative ideas?
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Originally posted by Wotan
i told you my opinion if you dont like it dont read it.
who did I say i am speaking for?
Your the one bringing euro-trash style socialism into ah
Point 1. At no time have I said that you claimed to be representing anyone elses opinon. Merely, that you voiced your opinion as if it represented the only possible sensible one and that anyone who disagreed was a whiner and/or a moron.
Point 2. Ah! I now understand the crux of your hostility.
We can avoid all future unpleasantness if you just don't bother to read any of my posts. In return I promise not to respond to any of your replies to other peoples' posts. Deal?
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Originally posted by Tjay
Your second point: Yes, at the moment a kill is a kill. But that isn't written in stone anywhere. Progress is entirely dependent on unreasonable people like me who are prepared to question the status quo. (E.g. It was the pansy morons whining about the heat that lead to the introduction of air conditioning in autos.)
And progress obviously means change. And some people hate change.
Not written in stone?
Maybe you need to take a trip down history lane to the begining of air combat...
1 kill = 1 kill = 1 kill
No sliding scale. The stat just DOES NOT support that kind of assinine suggestion Tjay.
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Originally posted by CavemanJ
Now, that being said, am i gonna call them a skill-less dweeb for flyin the la7? oh yeah, you bet!
Am I still gonna strafe thier chute if they bailed out of an N1K2-J?
Damn right I am!
The first thing is fine by me - I can't hear you:D
The second is OK too. I'm not such a dweeb that I have to fly a Niki.:)
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Originally posted by CavemanJ
Not written in stone?
Maybe you need to take a trip down history lane to the begining of air combat...
1 kill = 1 kill = 1 kill
No sliding scale. The stat just DOES NOT support that kind of assinine suggestion Tjay.
Caveman. Peace, man.
I meant not written in stone in this game. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. And I have accepted that although it would be theoretically possible to bias the K/D system, that is not the way to go.
So any ideas as to how to shooting down a P51 with a 202 could be rewarded - other than with perk points as it is now?
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Any alternative ideas?
[SIZE=20]Perk 'em All![/SIZE] [/FONT]
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the vast majority of people flying the La7, N1K1, Spit 9 and FW 190
hunh?
I see lots of La7s, Spits (both flavors), Nikis and recently p51's. I don't, however, see very many Fw190's. I don't think I have ever encountered an F8, seen very few a8's, some a5's and of the 190's mostly the d9 and its still pretty rare.
A kill is a kill is a kill. However, one could increase scoring to favor the "lesser" bird or increase the amount of perks earned.
But perks and scoring are both pretty much useless.
F.
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In defence of Tjay (if he's not already been tried and executed), his idea isn't so far fetched. During WWII pilots were alotted a "sliding" scale for kills depending on what Fighter Command needed them to put emphasis on. An example of this would be Flying Bombs and Ground Targets that weren't conisered a kill until they were seen as such a threat that they had to be dealt with. I even believe the Flying Bombs were given as multiple kills for each ones destroyed (I could be wrong there).
Not that I like the idea, as then I can see all the threads arguing over which planes need value adjustments (sounds familiar huh?).
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I will reply where I want .
I have no problem telling you when your ideas are dumb.
However you ask for an opinion then have trouble dealing with those opinions that you dont like.
I dont care what you do but offer a dumb idea I tell you.
You knew it was a dumb idea from your first post.
Look at your first post and read what you wrote.
I call umm like I sees umm............
You are the one resorting to childish name calling.
No free lunch
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Originally posted by Furious
hunh?
I see lots of La7s, Spits (both flavors), Nikis and recently p51's. I don't, however, see very many Fw190's. I don't think I have ever encountered an F8, seen very few a8's, some a5's and of the 190's mostly the d9 and its still pretty rare.
F.
Ah, yes - forgot about P51s, perhaps because they go by so fast. Perhaps I attract more 190s 'cos I fly the Spit V a bit...
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Originally posted by Wotan
I will reply where I want .
I have no problem telling you when your ideas are dumb.
However you ask for an opinion then have trouble dealing with those opinions that you dont like.
I
Your first point: Obviously not:D
Your second point: I have no problem with people disagreeing with me. But I do have a problem with people who do it in an aggressive, unpleasant manner, tell me to 'Quit whining' and generally exhibit a lack of manners. That is because I am an English gentleman of a 'certain age' who believes life would be a nicer experience if we all treated people as we would wish to be treated. But that is probably more Euro-trash socialism.
This is my final reply to you. I intend to keep making suggestions as to how this already excellent game might be improved even further. If you call them dumb, I'll know there must be SOME virtue in them.:p
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Originally posted by Manxer
In defence of Tjay (if he's not already been tried and executed), his idea isn't so far fetched. During WWII pilots were alotted a "sliding" scale for kills depending on what Fighter Command needed them to put emphasis on. An example of this would be Flying Bombs and Ground Targets that weren't conisered a kill until they were seen as such a threat that they had to be dealt with. I even believe the Flying Bombs were given as multiple kills for each ones destroyed (I could be wrong there).
Not that I like the idea, as then I can see all the threads arguing over which planes need value adjustments (sounds familiar huh?).
Manxer...
I didn't know that. Thanks for the info. But I guess a kill was always a kill against an aeroplane with a pilot in it.
Good point about it giving rise to more endless argument. But we have that already with the perk system... Strangely, Wotan, who made the perfectly valid point that the way to get perk points (if they are important to you) is to shoot down boss planes with something less capable, is utterly opposed to that system being extended to affect fighter rankings in any way. Doesn't seem so silly to me. The K/D system, everyone agrees, should be left alone.
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I too agree...1 kill, 1 kill score
I fly inferior (? why inferior) planes to get perks so's I can fly ..ahem...superior planes; cuz I can :cool:
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Wotan,
Why don't you just say, I don't like your idea for reasons x, y and z. Why do you feel the need to append he 'and your dumb too' bit. It's unnecessary and puts people who don't have your experience of AH putting forward their ideas.
Kinda reminds me of the guy who goes to the doctor with a pain. The doctor says 'You only got three weeks to live!'. The guy says 'I wan't a second opinion'. The doctor says 'OK your ugly too!':D. Yeah yeah, I know fell outta the pram laughing, its that old.
Gremlin
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Yea! I thought about every word when I was typing it there, CMJ. I was reading his idea, not his words. I seen an idea and then I seen alittle hostility, which is what I pointed out. I try to be alittle bit political due to I know at times that some in this community can be alittle 'sensitive' sometimes.
CMJ, you point out that people will grab the plane they can get the most kills in, because they want to kill. This is true. Now do they want to kill because they want to see a enemy plane go "BOOM", or do they want to kill to see their K/D go up? With TJay's idea, taking a non-uber plane up to kill a so-called "uber" planes will satisfy the K/D monger. If that pilot gets 1.5 kills for killing a N1K2, the K/D will be higher than a 1 kill = 1 kill scenario.
As a community we have to try and look at all options and ideas to allow growth within. If you dont agree with someone's idea then that is fine, but dont jump down their throat. Point out the reason why you fine the ideas, not so "warm and fuzzy".
Over and over we receive feedback about the hostility within this board and on-line. I was just pointing out maybe some should think first then react. Many time is seems posts are spewed out in discontent like Russian's problem the other day. :)
I dont totally agree with TJay's idea and I like things the way they are now, but he is coming up with an idea and posting it. No reason to get haggeled for that. I agreed with with his belief that this type of scenario would change the way some people pick their ride. More people would pick less uber rides for the chance of a better K/D.
So yes, I did think about what I was typing. :)
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Hey gremlin what dont YOU read my 1st reply to his suggestion.
Its clear as day what I think of his idea.
Then read HIS reply.
He starts with the petty crap so I just stated even more clearly what I thought of his suggestion.
You gotta reading comprehension problem as well.
you dont like it well so what.............:p
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How about we just use perks to improve our score? Something like 500 perks bumping you up 1 pt in K/D or 1000 bumping you up 1 in K/S.
That way... everyone could feel better about themselves.
Wow.. this stupid idea thing is contageous.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu
How about we just use perks to improve our score? Something like 500 perks bumping you up 1 pt in K/D or 1000 bumping you up 1 in K/S.
That way... everyone could feel better about themselves.
Wow.. this stupid idea thing is contageous.
AKDejaVu
A constructive alternative suggestion. Just as I was giving up hope. Thanks AKDejaVu.
Thanks also to those who supported my idea (at least in part) and to those who expressed their disagreement without resorting to abuse.
If this discussion has any life left in it, perhaps someone would like to start a new thread?
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Originally posted by Wotan
you spend too much time worried about score......
kill 1 plane get 1 kill recorded..........
we need no affirmitive action programs for early war birds
we need no welfare perk system for late war planes
No equalitarianism in ah
Life is unfair so is ah ............so what..........
No free lunch
Boy Wotan you have some serious attitude problem.
I read your email, not just the words but the sentiments. Your entire reply is nothing more than a condescending statement from start to finish. Your tone sounds like you have the right to speak for the whole AH community. Words like 'we need' 'No equalitarianism' 'No free lunch'. You have no right to speak for the whole community, and you have no right to condescend to people who TRY to make a positive suggestion, which is more than you have done. You know, I don't particularly like Tjay's idea either, but at least he tried. You think cause ur a good stick, you gotta right to come out with this BS.
You can call me what u like, I don't care. Anyway man lifes too short. We have a difference of opinion that's life.
Gremlin.
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again there gremlin read my other responses where did I say anything about speaking for anyone?
Are some sort of mind reader? How do you know what my sentiments are?
He asked for an opinion of his suggestion mine was offered.
I dont care anything about his feelings or yours and they play no part of my response to his suggestion.
Where have I called anyone a name? I said I thought his idea was a bad one he got petty then to clarify my point which was so obviously stated in my 1st reply I said it was a "dumb" idea.
which it is.
Read your squaddies posts.
Then read mine no name calling or any thing insulting other then "its a dumb idea".
I dont care anything about you or him.
Where did I call you anything?
The most important part of replying to a thread is knowing what was written.
Reread this thread and please point to my name calling.
It most run in the squad sheesh :)
I dont know what email you think I sent ya but it wasn't from me :)
Tjay you send your big brother to help ya out........
You started on me pal........
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TJay, while your idea may sound good- it's just another way to artificially pad your score.
Such as the repair pad, the sortie didn't actually get credited as ending in your stat when you stopped to repair- you repair, take off and are back in action to get more kills. This artificially boosts your kill/death and kill/sortie.
This idea would go further to promoting score inflation.
Inflation is always bad, unless it involves boobies or an air mattress.
-SW
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Wotan,
This could go on forever, so I'm gonna shut up now. I said my piece, u said yours, we disagree. So shall we just leave it there??
There's enough bad feeling in this world so lets not do that.
I wish you good luck and
Gremlin.
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Originally posted by AKSWulfe
TJay, while your idea may sound good- it's just another way to artificially pad your score.
-SW
AKSWulfe.
I haven't heard about the repair pad proposal so can't comment.
I guess you could call my proposal as a way to pad scores, and in a way it is. Another way to describe it is a reward system for those who exhibit superior skill. That was certainly what I had in mind.
Agree 100% with your sentiments on inflation. Thanks for you input.
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Gremlin.
Thanks for you support. Wotan's only response was more abuse. No change there then. :D
I think the basic problem here is that he considers using words like dumb to describe someone else's idea or making bald statements unsupported by any form of rational argument as totally acceptable, whereas me calling irrelevances like 'No free lunch' or 'Quit whining', juvenile is name calling. Rational argument is, of course, dependent on the capability of rational thought. So I think we are expecting too much.
As the man says: 'I called it dumb because it is.' No argument, no IMHO. Here we have someone who'se definition of 'correct' is 'what I think, and 'incorrect' is 'any other opinion'.
He is also quite open about not caring about your opinion, my opinion or anyone elses. But some consideration for other peoples' opinions is generally accepted as one of the corner stones of civilisation and society. More Eurotrash socialism maybe, except that as a regualar visitor to the USA, I know it's not.
I wonder what really lies behind that macho Sylvester Stallone online persona. A short bespectacled, hen pecked clerk who daren't say boo to a goose in RL perhaps?
Anyway, this is like shooting fish in a barrel, except the fish has the gun and is shooting itself in the foot - err, flipper - all the time. No fun and not what the BBS is for.
Like I said, anyone want to start a new thread?