Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Zigrat on February 02, 2001, 10:16:00 AM
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http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/interviews/targetware/ (http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/interviews/targetware/)
lol look at these guys, im not saying they really did, but i amCERTAINLY looking forwardto whether it works out or not!
they have incorporated so many of the ideas i have been clamoring for here in aces high.
I really think user submissions with corporate approval is the way to go, not totally closed game coding.
While i think their approach might be a little TOO drastic (flight models IMO should be left up to the base company, not end users) I REALLY REALLY support user artwork (3d models and skins etcera) but i dont think hitech will ever do that. With 6 employees hitech has made a great game in a short period of time, but withot using its best resource, within 2 years HTC will probably fall severely behind.
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You can see an example of how open games work in the M$ sims. Take a look in the file library of AvSim. Thousands and thousands of files (even a few of mine (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) ). I'd say about 15-20% are of higher quality in 3d models/fm/etc than the M$ default stuff and the rest are fodder.
AH would have to keep the FMs closed for obvious reasons, but user submitted 3d models/skins for approval would be nice (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Interesting idea, but I don't agree with having to pay a monthly fee for that. A one-time purchase would be more approiate.
Basically it's the same thing as AH, except the PLAYERS have to provide the servers and much of the game development. This is more in line with boxed FPS games. (which makes me wonder--how many home users have a computer and connection good enough to handle a 250 player server?)
They will be charging the same money as many online MMP games, and doing less work. It's a good deal for them.
Yes, I tend to be a bit pessimistic when looking at business dealings.
J_A_B
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To be totally fair, there is a concern you have not addressed...
I have used many of the add-on skins for planes in games like MSCFS 1 & 2, SDOE, etc. and they share a common dark side- frame rate hit. Yes, the planes can be beautiful, but you can also see a dramatic hit on frame rate if the artist doesn't know how to optimize the art, which most apparently don't.
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I echo Zigrats post for the most part. Especially about player content as regards FM's and such.
I would like to add that I firmly believe that HTC does things with AH based on thier not-in-any-way insignificant experience in online gaming and thier intimate knowlege of their program. Where as Target Software may think they know what to do, having participated as players in online games, but they have not created anything like this in the past. So, we'll see. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
It is a good example of someone actually putting thier money where thier mouth is for sure. I wish RAM, TOWD and several others would do likewise.
-Westy
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 02-02-2001).]
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(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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<pulls up a chair, gonna enjoy this thread>
He he Westy, you crack me up.
Looking forward to Sick`s work. Gonna be fun.
It was more fun when it was a secret. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Another reason why the "Bastards" rock!!!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Skybax
328th Fighter Squadron
www.352ndFighterGroup.com (http://www.352ndFighterGroup.com)
Blue Nosed Bastards of Bodney
[This message has been edited by sky_bax (edited 02-02-2001).]
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I'd like to edit my own skins, but I'm too lazy to do the rest...that's wasted time I could be using online!
And the hacks out there, hmmmm, seems like a hay day for them!
Wish Sick best of luck, this is a flight era no ones done right, hope his does it right!
See this thread for what I mean by Does it right! (Complete plane set)
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum9/HTML/001098.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum9/HTML/001098.html)
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gogogogogogoogogogogoggogogog ogogoogogogogoggogogogogogoog ogogogog korea
i fly
[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 02-02-2001).]
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(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Considering the equipment used in 1996 to run the 200+ servers of AW or WB, I would say that anyone with a current system and a cable connect should be fine. It isn't as though they will actually have 200 persons on a private server anyway. 30-50 would be sweet and no problem(theoretically, because I think the FM is the easy part, the netware is the tricky thing).
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KEWL!! I like making skins and terrains, maybe they will get used there
NUTTZ
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I think HT could do some preventative stuff and release a skin pack from which a rotating 'feature skin' is selected. That way as users take an interest they can donate skins for their most popular ride and see it join the rotation. I have already seen a great deal of artistic talent here. Encapsulate that within a library and voila!
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Bare*Metal*Finish
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Yes, I agree that player add-ons can be SO NICE, look at some of these screenshots for MSCFS2 of player built add-ons
The RAFF P-40 was made by a New Zealand team and has even drawn attenteion from MS.
Hartmann Me109 (http://milenko201.tripod.com/snap040.jpg)
Navy CH53 (http://milenko201.tripod.com/snap041.jpg)
RAAF P-40(1) (http://milenko201.tripod.com/snap042.jpg)
RAAF P-40(2) (http://milenko201.tripod.com/snap026.jpg)
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"ASSASSINS have BIGGER Joysticks!"
<< MILENKO >> (http://pages.hotbot.com/games/davekirk/milenko.html)
ACES HIGH ASSASSINS Website (http://www.cybrtyme.com/personal/hblair/mainpage.htm)
WB/AH ASSASSINS Website (http://members.xoom.com/rowgue/assassins.html)
[This message has been edited by milnko (edited 02-03-2001).]
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Nice! They are sweet. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
P-40 my favorite ride.
The ONLY thing that looks bad on those models is the prop. So bad it almost looks out of place.
Would like to see a shot of it not turning.
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Skybax
328th Fighter Squadron
www.352ndFighterGroup.com (http://www.352ndFighterGroup.com)
Blue Nosed Bastards of Bodney
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Originally posted by sky_bax:
Would like to see a shot of it not turning.
Here ya go Sky.......that P-40 sittin' still.
Plus as an added bonus a screen of a addon B-25 called Ruptured Duck which was used in the Doolittle Raid.
P-40 Prop (http://milenko201.tripod.com/p40prop.jpg)
B-25 Props (http://milenko201.tripod.com/B25props.jpg)
B-25 Ruptured Duck (http://milenko201.tripod.com/snap045.jpg)
Ruptured Duck (2) (http://milenko201.tripod.com/snap044.jpg)
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Originally posted by Kieren:
To be totally fair, there is a concern you have not addressed...
Yes, the planes can be beautiful, but you can also see a dramatic hit on frame rate if the artist doesn't know how to optimize the art, which most apparently don't.
Seems like a no-brainer to me...
Voss
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make there be a polygon limit if the planwe is to be accepted for main arena
pretty simple
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Kieren, read the interview again! For a model to be certified by Targetware it will need to meet certain standards of acceptability. Certainly framerate will be included in those standards. And there will be tutorials on how to make acceptable models. It's in Targetware's best interest for users to know how to make good models. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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why? HTC already put out a terrain editor, which is a waste because they aren't going to use player submitted maps ( we'll at least this is from my standpoint from the last 7 months of mapmaking) Why put out a skin editor? So even more player contributions cans go ignored?
NUTTZ
Originally posted by BMF:
I think HT could do some preventative stuff and release a skin pack from which a rotating 'feature skin' is selected. That way as users take an interest they can donate skins for their most popular ride and see it join the rotation. I have already seen a great deal of artistic talent here. Encapsulate that within a library and voila!
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Your submissions have been very good and I doubt you have been ignored. I don't think your time has been wasted but I bet they are busy with other things. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Bare*Metal*Finish
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Thanks Milnko, but the links won`t work for me (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
On the topic of player contributions, Nuttz I`m sure there is a good reason for HTC not using player submitted maps.
I doubt they will go ignored.
Even though in the "other" brand things are very premature, in the early stages of this stuff you can really see the potential for these things.
Nuttz, when you say skin editor, do you mean "skin" or do you mean "models"???
This is no spam, but examples on the subject matter since were talking about sims and player submissions, and the positive things that can come from it:
models: http://agw.dogfighter.com/agw//Forum3/HTML/017552.html (http://agw.dogfighter.com/agw//Forum3/HTML/017552.html)
skins: http://agw.dogfighter.com/agw//Forum3/HTML/017930.html (http://agw.dogfighter.com/agw//Forum3/HTML/017930.html)
Even though this is the first to be accepted and is "default" art, you can see the potential for many more once approved to choose from when you go on-line:
http://furball.dogfighter.com/wbiiipaint/index.html (http://furball.dogfighter.com/wbiiipaint/index.html)
Allowing the community to be involved will bring more good than bad.
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Skybax
328th Fighter Squadron
www.352ndFighterGroup.com (http://www.352ndFighterGroup.com)
Blue Nosed Bastards of Bodney
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Awesome skins. Come on HT, we can do better than this! We'll make you happy! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Voss
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Good post Sky bax. Correct on all points (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Setting my bias against AW aside I must give a small group of players there due credit as they built a program that utilised player made, custom aircraft skins and terrain/ sky textures that was simply fantastic.
http://www3.mistral.co.uk/mthuff/index.html (http://www3.mistral.co.uk/mthuff/index.html)
They've been doing this for four years and this utility had single handedly kept a large part of AW's subscribers somewhat happy with AW (even with dated graphics and all) untill AH and the new WB's flate rate appeared. "SAC" injected new life into an AW "3D" that had aged quickly and with the new variety for scenario applications or every day use it was easier to stay "immersed"
Now AH and WB III won't age as quickly, as AH is under the constant improvement plan and HS has said WB III will do the same, but as suibscribers to AW and now WB III have had a taset at creating variety it will be very hard (IMO) for HTC not to include that capability in the future and compete with that feature.
-Westy
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I wonder just how many people used SAC to create skins in AW. I bet it was a very small group. We only had one guy in our squad that made skins. Would all the extra programing be worth just a few more players?
I don't know. These are hard questions to answer for HTC, as was pointed out they are a small company.
Efforts for small segments of the sim market aren't going to be productive or produce that much revenue. Look at the change in the number of people in the MA from 1.04 to 1.05. A major change in the sim produced a major population increase in the arena!!!!
I hope HTC is always looking for a change in the sim that will please 99% of the customer base. Please this base and surely the base will increase!!
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I know a huge percentage of the community used SAC to spice up thier online flying. But it was a very, very small minority who actually made the skins and texture files for the terrain and sky. The really good stuff that is. There was another not so small percentage who sucked at it (myself included because I had no idea how to use Paint Shop Pro nor the time needed to do it 'right').
I'm not sure why HTC has been quoted in the past as sayng why' he'll not allow us to do this. Or if it is a programming impossibility. In AW the skins were bitmaps. Accessable and easily editable (except for what was allwoed to be transparant) simple grpahics files. WB III they made a utility to be able to access and edit them. AH I have no idea if it is HiTechs wish we not be able to alter them or if we cannot because AH can not be opened up that way at all do to the nature of the program.
-Westy