Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Badboy on April 16, 2001, 01:29:00 PM
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The AH flight model seems to be taking a little flak in this thread.
http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/Forum35/HTML/000349.html (http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/Forum35/HTML/000349.html)
I always thought the "feel" was pretty good, but what do I know? Anyone have any time in a warbird that can give us a qualitative comparison? (And perhaps provide a rebuttal for that other thread) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Badboy
[This message has been edited by Badboy (edited 04-16-2001).]
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I am Hauptmann Groin vonButtz, I have 152 kills in WWII and have flown every aircraft type from that era. Before the war I lived in the USA and tested their P26 and early B17 models to prepare Nazi Germany for the impending war. I then traveled to Britain and Russia and tried out their respective aircraft. I have complete knowledge in the way each plane flies, therefore I can comment on how these planes should fly.
(http://www.mpz.co.uk/cwm/otn/funny/jump3.gif) (http://www.mpz.co.uk/cwm/otn/funny/jump1.gif) (http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/otn/funny/jump2.gif)
Seriously though, I'd take what those people say with an economy sized vat of salt
-SW
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Hmmm...well, I have both loaded, take a P47 up to 30k in WB's and dogfight...now do the same with AH...you'll see what I mean.
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I don't think he meant 'Warbirds' I think he meant a real 'Warbird' Rip.
No disrespect but comparing the two then saying one is more realistic is like comparing apples and oranges. I seem to remember a while ago a real pilot with experience of real 'Warbirds' did an article (might even have been on SimHQ) and Aces High came out VERY favourably. From what I remember both sims had their merits. I really would'nt pay much attention to 'armchair experts' with their own agenda's.
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Ah, thks Revvin, and I concur, and would like to remind ya of what they said in the 70's...If it feels good, do it!...that applies to FM's of sims within.
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My problem with this has always been, I cant belive flying a real plane is anywhere near this easy.
I have been doing this for years. And I still think I would have to be nuts to go jump in a plane and try to fly it.
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Originally posted by Badboy:
(And perhaps provide a rebuttal for that other thread) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Much of the AH flight model bashing seems in that thread eminates from the analysis that Leonard Hjalmarson provides. Apparently he tested AH's 109F against WB's 109F and found differences such as the amount of torque on takeoff, speed of stall in a climbing turn, etc.
The problem is... he doesn't mention if he ran these tests with combat trim enabled or disabled. Torque on takeoff would appear noticably less powerful in AH if combat trim automatically adjusted for it.
In other words, I question the validity of his findings.
-- Todd/DMF
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Originally posted by easymo:
My problem with this has always been, I cant belive flying a real plane is anywhere near this easy.
I have been doing this for years. And I still think I would have to be nuts to go jump in a plane and try to fly it.
Flying them is the easy part.. starting their engines, finding out where the hell the flaps and gear handles are (some you even need to crank up and down by hand.. LG that is), being able to take off without ground looping and being able to land without spinning in would be what makes it hard.
Atleast this was my experience in a Cozy (kit plane)... of course take off and landing weren't all that difficult and neither was flying the plane.. just figuring out prop pitch and fuel mixture and throttle settings for cruise was a pain in the ass.
-SW
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What kind of multiplay will IL-2 support?
If it's aimed for drone shooting folks, it can be left unnoticed..
Anyway, I noticed in the tests also that they compared the E loss of P51D in wb and ah..
In wb the speed was reduced by 70mph and altitude reduced by 600 feet..
In ah speed reduction was less (60mph) but the altitude drop was much bigger (700feet)
Won't the loss in altitude cover up the loss of 10mph and then some? Seems weird to me.
It seems that whatever people play these days, bashing competition is standard.
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IL-2 will support 32-player arena's in a human-only enviroment hosted by either their servers or players own. (kinda like AH's H2H with more players and an option for who to host)
Besides that it can support 16 players in missions that have ai units included (planes and/or ground vehicles)
I have also seen someone mention that they will do a massive multiplay version, but all I have seen is Oleg stating that IF they would do that (MMP-sim), they would of course charge money for playing.
Jumping to conclusions I say.
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Ltn. Snefens
RO, Lentolaivue 34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
My AH homepage (http://home14.inet.tele.dk/snefens)
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Ill say this coming from the UFO FM of Janes WW2 Fighters to AH the 1.03FM made realize the importance of keeping your speed up and keeping forward flight motion, the 1.04FM doesn't do this as much. Thake that as you may...
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www.x-plane.com (http://www.x-plane.com)
That's all i can say. I hate to put ammo in my buddy deezcamp's gun but try it. I know x-plane doesn't have to simulate the weapons like aces, but it does have the MOST accurate flight model of anything on the PC. If aces could combine its gunnery and stuff with x-planes physics, you'd have one sweet sim.
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feel shmeel
until you get a yankum bankum stick werker full motion simulator nothing will have any kind of feel.
does it have ailerons, rudders and elevator?
does it fly similar to an airplane?
whats the fuss about?
its a game
its fun
its historic
its ww2
it matches aircraft strengths vs their weaknesses very well.
more than can be said for any other pc ww2 sim yet released.
can it get better?
it gets better w every patch
can it get more realistic?
HT is pretty clever with the programming wizardry, I don't forsee reversion to less realism.
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Originally posted by Citabria:
whats the fuss about?
its a game
its fun
its historic
its ww2
it matches aircraft strengths vs their weaknesses very well.
more than can be said for any other pc ww2 sim yet released.
Can it? Other WW2 sims have had those elements - whether or not they were 'realistic' is another thing entirely. It's not good to base what one sees as 'realistic' purely on AH and measure as yet unreleased games alongside it. It'll probably boil down to personal preference in the end I guess. That said, I do tend to trust Oleg and Co.'s version of what goes on because of their extensive research and the academic and occupational background of the team itself.
Anyway, here's an interview from awhile back (with old screenshots): http://www.dogfighter.com/interviews/show.php3?interview=954346562 (http://www.dogfighter.com/interviews/show.php3?interview=954346562)
[This message has been edited by JG5_Jerry (edited 04-17-2001).]
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I was going to reply about how everyone judges the game on the flight models, and how there's so much more, yadda yadda.
Then I realized that, not only am I a noob dumb-ass, but that the game IS named Aces High (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
On the other hand, Pyro was in the MA last night talking about how he'd like to see more tank rushes, and about new GV's in 1.07.
Not being canalized yet as a pure Flight Sim fanatic, to my noob way of thinking, I would find it interesting to see what would happen if changes were made which allowed a little more emphasis on ground actions (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
When the Rooks were down to 3 AF's on the HQ Island last night, I spawned an Ostie and tried to sneak up close to an enemy AF. But, as soon as I poked my nose up, the field ack hammered me from way out of my range (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
I didn't know it could do this, of course...
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The Buccaneers old squad leader (Whitey) owned and had flown a variety of WWII aircraft and he was a lifelong aviation buff. He said that AH had the most accurate flight model of any sim that he had ever tried (and I think he tried out quite a few). I recall him saying that most of the flight characteristics of the planes that he was familiar with were within 90% of where they should be.
He is not around any more to post his opinion, so I thought I would do it for him.
eskimo
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"Feel" is all BS. Unless you have stick time in a WW2 aircraft I don't want to hear your opinions on feel. And even with a perfect flight model, sitting at a desk moving a joystick is not going to give you the feel of a real airplane. It's purely personal preference.
So all that's left is whether the sim hits the numbers or not. And AH hits the numbers as well or better than any entertainment software product to date.
And BTW, valid references for numbers are historical flight test data or physical calculations from known properties of the aircraft. Other flight sims are NOT a valid reference.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 04-17-2001).]
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Of course, the numbers are very important, but how you get to those certain numbers as you fly around is another thing. This is where the 'feel' apsect comes in. Of course, it's still tricky - how something feels to one person can be different from another's (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) This can get a bit confusing for us desk pilots as some people with real stick time can differ on their opinions too (even when talking about WW2 birds).
[This message has been edited by JG5_Jerry (edited 04-17-2001).]
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It won't matter how good the FM or graphics of a game is if it's built for offline.
I doubt anyone who played online will want to go back to shooting drones. That's downright boring. Right?
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Originally posted by MrSiD:
It won't matter how good the FM or graphics of a game is if it's built for offline.
I doubt anyone who played online will want to go back to shooting drones. That's downright boring. Right?
Na ... try mig alley (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)