Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: pimpjoe on January 29, 2002, 01:36:30 AM
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this is just plain unacceptable.
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sorry...i got a crappy web host.
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Sounds like he's just trash-talking a failed chute shooter. Nothing wrong with that IMO.
I know there is plenty of slop that isn't acceptable for the MA. That, however, doesn't fall into the "not acceptable" category IMO. Certainly not Shakespeare quality, but perfrctly acceptable.
J_A_B
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No need to remove Rounder's name from the screen capture, pimpjoe.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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How dare kbman fly a Chog!! You're right, that is unacceptable. I for one am outraged.
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The on-line monitors should of booted that person!!
Whooopppss! do we still have on-line monitors????
:)
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I think its completely unacceptable. Vulgar sexual references should not be tolerated on the open or country channel. The online monitors should've booted the guy.
What kind of name is Poony, anyway?
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Simple dont shoot chutes and you wont be called a dick
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Shouldn't be called dick at all no matter you shoot chutes or not, specially not if it is a Niki chute.
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This is just one example of what I was referring to in my "We're losing our sim to" thread.
Completely unacceptable. Getting tired of this crap.
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Looks like another argument for a permanent squelch option or an ad for CA, those types don't hang around long in there..
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That KBMan braggin about his kill streaks is offenive, and has gotta stop!
Was there something else?
:)
eskimo
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Absolutely unacceptable.
Hopefully HTC is also working on catching up to the new "community" they have. While thier subscriber base has grown enourmously thier means to monitor and nurture it has not. I think this will bite them in the butt over the short run but if they do not act soon imo it will hurt them worse in the long also.
Westy
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Seems to me this thread is living proof that as long as you feel you are right, you can say pretty much whatever you want.
AKDejaVu
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Well, this is a touchy subject for me. I have a 6 yr. old with his own account. Now, at this age, he really doesn't pay attention to the text buffer, nor does he even understand the term used by the offender in Pimpjoe's case...but one day he will.
Now, we DO have squelch, however, I cannot monitor ever line of text that comes over my sons computer either.
So I am left with two choices. Bag his account or let it go. The former choice is a real bummer for him. The latter could have behaviorial consequences unforeseen down the road.
Swearing doesn't bother me, nor does rude suggestions as Pimp posted, but forcing it upon others on an open channel DOES. Thats why we have a private channel.
Now, I'm SURE that I'm not the only one with kids either flying, or looking over ones shoulder, or friends looking over ones shoulder either. If it were MY business, I would empower MORE users the ability to mute..and suffer the consequences of that, than I would to let it carry on and suffer no doubt worse consequences of pissing off an larger group of players.
This has been an ongoing complaint by the community for many months now. Time for HTC to DO SOMETHING. Anything! Just do something!
My 2 cents.
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Must be a full moon or something, I logged into the training arena last night.....first time ever, and some dweeb was spouting all kinds of profanity on the open channel. I took a screen and sent it to ht last night.
CRASH
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This stuff is getting completely out of hand. Its a nightly occurrance now.
As much as I hate to say it, we need sysops. It is a shame we can't police ourselves, but then again, we don't have the tools to do so.
Heck! I'll even volunteer. I don't mind babysitting for a while versus flying. After 15 years as a street cop, babysitting adults who don't know the meaning of reasonable behaviour, I could do it in AH too I think.
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this is the sole reason in not going to play this game anylonger. i love the sim its self but the community is poorly lacking! you shouldnt have to squelch 30+ people every time you log on :(
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Nothing wrong with that IMO.
Simple dont shoot chutes and you wont be called a dick
You have to be kidding me! Someone, much less two people are juvenile enough to defend this? And some people try to say they don't see the degradation in the community.
As far as I am concerned, the guy who typed the statement being referenced should have his account terminated so he can go back to playing Quake, at least until he reaches his 14th birthday.
I wonder just what it takes to develop such a little mind that talking like that online seems appropriate to them?
dago
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I shot down rounder several times this morning and he seemed to be ok, no insults or anything like that.
He's new to the game and will probably soon realize that's not wanted here.
Ripsnort: This fobia with bad language and kids.. Does your kid play with other kids out on the yard? Because if he does, he probably knows more bad words than you already. All without reading ;)
You'll have to put earplugs to him or ban yard time if you want to shelter him from the world.
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Why don't you just send the screenshot to support@hitechcreations.com so we can actually do something about it?
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Come to the CT!
All is well.
eskimo
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Hey! That was uncalled for!
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No, we cant prevent our kids from being exposed to this kind of language in life, but then again we dont have to just accept it as if it is acceptable.
To participate in a game, or let our children participate in a game where this would be tolerated sends the wrong message to our kids.
It is a great experience to compete against skilled mature persons in this game, using your skills against others in a fun competition, when after a good fight salutes are exchanged. It is a whole differant matter when we must be exposed to this type of nonsense.
I am glad to know that HTC will act when they feel necessary against persons like the one making these comments, but there aren't enough HTC watching and it seems to me they are rarely in the game anymore. Maybe they silently monitor at times and I am not aware of it.
This game does need more monitors. I have offered to monitor too just to receive silence as a responce. I dont think I will be playing AH much longer, for alot of reasons, and this is just another straw on the camels back. I do hope though that Aces High is able to stay a game above the rest of the pack in quality of gaming and in behaviour required of players.
Dago
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Originally posted by mrsid2
Ripsnort: This fobia with bad language and kids.. Does your kid play with other kids out on the yard? Because if he does, he probably knows more bad words than you already. All without reading ;)
You'll have to put earplugs to him or ban yard time if you want to shelter him from the world.
I think most would agree that kids are going to learn lots of things as they age. Definitely some of that will be a tad off colour. That's just part of growing up though. Equally a part is learning what is right and wrong, and in this case how one should or should not conduct themselves in a public, or private forum. I know lots of "creative" words and phrases too, however that doesn't mean they should be used anytime or in any environment. To the point, I don't see it as prudent using them in an open forum like AH. THAT'S the message here for younger players...or it should be at least.
Vortex
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Ripsnort, not saying I'd want my kid to see such language (I don't have one and I hope I'll never get one) BUT when he gets old enough to understand the meening of it (wich he will learn in School like so many others things from his comrades) he will know a alot more offencive things, take my word for it ;)
You'll be surprised how much kids actually know, kind of scary I think.
No need for the kind of language though and I hate to see it becoming an every day thing in the MA and I only wish the people, no matter age, who are immature enough to say those things will be banned for life.
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You wanna police it...read Pyro's post. He just gave us all the oppertunity. I for one will do so. I enjoy the banter on 1 at times and I understand the need to vent but there are some who are seemly incapable of doing anything other than spouting vulgar verbage over 1. I'd like to them get banned.
xBAT
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all this because someone chooses to fly a Chog?
lazs
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Unacceptable. Not so much because of the language; I've heard it before, but because it's damned juvenile and unnecessary.
It also implies a lack of respect for other people in general. If I am in my private life and I say that to someone because I don't like something said or done, I would have to fight that person, no doubt. I fly this sim, I compete with others this is why I do it. It is important not to cross over a line which prompts me to be disrespectful to others.
I think some version of a sysops is needed because there are differing opinions about what is and what is not acceptable behavior. What is needed is more consistency emphasized by standards that are consistently enforced. From what I have seen and read, the players cannot and will not be that consistent about self policing the arenas.
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I think the real question here is what age of person is this game suitable for?
Those of us with children are responsible for deciding which games are appropriate for our children to participate in. I certainly wouldn't take young children to see an adult film that contains graphic sex, regardless of whether or not they already know about sex from the playground or from a talk with my wife and I. Just because they know about it doesn't mean that they are emotionally or psychologically able to understand it all. Same goes for a film or activity where profanity is used. While it is true that kids learn about profanity at an early age, my goal as a parent is to prevent them from using profanity as a tool to harm other people.
My goals as a parent may be different from yours. But as long as I'm playing this game and HTC values my opinion as a customer, then I'm going to argue that flagrant and continued use of profanity be severely dealt with. I'm not talking about the person who slips and accidently types out "Shit!" once in a while. I'm talking about the people who use profanity as the core of their vocabulary, or use it as a tool to provoke another person.
So getting back to my original question, what age is this game intended for?
I would hope that Aces High doesn't evolve into a game that is appropriate only for adults who can take a lot of verbal abuse. Personally, I would prefer that it remain a family game that can be played and enjoyed by young and old alike.
One thing I still can't understand is how using profanity and trying to insult and hurt someone else's feelings makes for a more enjoyable experience. I simply don't understand that logic and way of thinking.
I wish we could all be friends and give each other salutes after a fight, and gather around and give each other a big Barney hug at the end of the night.
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You wanna police it...read Pyro's post. He just gave us all the oppertunity.
We've always had the opportunity to "police it". I think the gist of it boiled down to sending it to HTC as opposed to posting it here and generating a witch hunt.
Someone didn't like getting their chute shot... and responded. Someone didn't like their response and responded. The use of particular language doesn't merrit the repeating and/or additional display of the language.
I'm always amazed that people will repeat or continue to display stuff they found offensive to show just how offensive it is.
AKDejaVu
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Sorry about that pipmjoe, I was a little heated at the time, just got done a good fight had 2 kills on board (which is rare for me) and the pony who got me could haved moved on. I am usually pretty quiet in the MA and I try to help new guys when I can I don't want a bad rep for 1 instance of foul language. Again I apologize to anyone I offended by saying that.
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While its nice to be able to send HTC screenshots, I dont care to have to constantly be doing this. I am not a babysitter, nor do I care for the role of tattletale. I realize it probably needs to be done from time to time, but the few times I have bothered doing it, I have gotten no responce from HTC. When I dont even get a note saying "thanks, we will look into it", I figure they dont care so why bother?
Frustration, thy name is Dago. :)
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Yeah, thats the way I see it too Dago. I don't sit at the traffic signal in my neighborhood and jot down license plate numbers of violaters. I figure I've paid what is required of me and I have a reasonable expectation that those with the authority to do so...will.
Having said that, the rules is da rules. I either live by em or, as the man says, turn the channel.
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"One thing I still can't understand is how using profanity and trying to insult and hurt someone else's feelings makes for a more enjoyable experience. I simply don't understand that logic and way of thinking. "
Ditto. This behavior is not tolerated in the basketball games I get into nor is it in the softball and volleyball leagues I participate in. Just as like AH, I participate (or have) for the competativeness with like minded people in those games. No one is yelling derogatory remarks nor swearing at other players for thier gameplay.
And to go off on a different tangent a bit about how some say AH (and online games) are just simply social meetings places. Well, like AH these other activites are not my social life, just a part of it. While it's nice to have some bantering no one's hollering out a political debate with another nor are they expounding on what type of 'steely dan' one's female-dog-of-a-mother would be better off using after a home run goes over the fence. Teams kick people off like that. Leagues boot them.
Simply put AH is the reason we are here. It's not a convenient back drop to shooting the breeze and 'socialising' no matter how much some people claim it is. This board is the social center. Not channel one or two. Just as I have the phone, the pub or the dugout to talk with other players about anything I feel like in real life I also have AIM or Yahoo Messenger to do the same if I need to 'shoot the breeze' instead of 'play' while logged onto AH.
But feel free to banter on the channels. That's why we have the squelch feature imo. However obscene vulgarity and being rude to the point of diruption is NOT banter and please do not confuse it as such.
Westy
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Ripsnort--
AH is not a child's game. Most online games will not even allow little kids to play (it is actually against TOS in a lot of games for children under 12 to play); with ANY of them if you choose to allow your child to play, it's at your (his) own risk. Being unhappy that AH may not be suitable for a 6-year-old is as odd as complaining that an R-rated movie is unsuitable for a 6-year-old.
Westy--
I see your point, that we're here primarily to fly AH, but I think there's more to it. The human factor is as much a part of AH as the flightsim is. Without the human factor, AH is nothing more than an unrealistic flightsim modeling a fantasy war. The flightsim might attract us, but it's the human interactionthat keeps us here.
I still don't understand what this recent "you all have to be nice to each other" crap is about. Are you people really so sensitive that you can't handle a bit of trash-talking? Perhaps, rather than fly an emotionally charged, tense game, you need to sit down and read some Dr. Seuss as it isn't as likely to offend your delicate sensibilities. I've frequently seen comments on other messageboards that this game is full of yuppie whiners who can't handle any heat. At least part of such comments seem accurate.
J_A_B
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Well said banana, I am not a parent, and I don't intend to be either, I only stated that kids know alot more then the parents might think :)
Persoanlly I want all ages to be able to play the game and enjoy it without having to squelch 10% of everybody who is online.
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I still don't understand what this recent "you all have to be nice to each other" crap is about. Are you people really so sensitive that you can't handle a bit of trash-talking? Perhaps, rather than fly an emotionally charged, tense game, you need to sit down and read some Dr. Seuss as it isn't as likely to offend your delicate sensibilities. I've frequently seen comments on other messageboards that this game is full of yuppie whiners who can't handle any heat. At least part of such comments seem accurate.
JAB, I think you misunderstand my point. I like the social interaction in AH as much as you do, but the difference seems to be what kind of social interaction turns us on. You like the "Go diddly your mama, you puss Spitdweeb" type of behavior, while I enjoy the "Good fight Westy! " type of behavior.
IMO being competitive while remaining a good sport is a much better mindset than seeing how many people you can bait or upset.
I don't think there's room for both in this game, and one way or the other HTC will have to decide who this game is intended for.
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I agree that it wasnt very nice for him to say that to you. However I dont think he should have his account suspended or anything of that nature.
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Where I come from, the "go F--K you spitdweeb" IS being a good sport. I hear stuff like that all the time, but it's always just someone blowing off steam and talking himself up a bit. Nobody likes to lose.
If I am playing a game with friends and told them to "expect to lose and be HAPPY when you lose", if I did that I'd be a stuck-up jerk, well-meaning but stuck-up nonetheless.
Personal threats are what crosses the line IMO. If someone moves beyond the "you're just a chute shooting bastage" to the "I'm going to hunt you doen and beat your face in", then that's no longer blowing off steam, that's an individual taking things far too seriously.
J_A_B
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Originally posted by banana
I think the real question here is what age of person is this game suitable for?
Those of us with children are responsible for deciding which games are appropriate for our children to participate in. I certainly wouldn't take young children to see an adult film that contains graphic sex, regardless of whether or not they already know about sex from the playground or from a talk with my wife and I. Just because they know about it doesn't mean that they are emotionally or psychologically able to understand it all. Same goes for a film or activity where profanity is used. While it is true that kids learn about profanity at an early age, my goal as a parent is to prevent them from using profanity as a tool to harm other people.
My goals as a parent may be different from yours. But as long as I'm playing this game and HTC values my opinion as a customer, then I'm going to argue that flagrant and continued use of profanity be severely dealt with. I'm not talking about the person who slips and accidently types out "Shit!" once in a while. I'm talking about the people who use profanity as the core of their vocabulary, or use it as a tool to provoke another person.
So getting back to my original question, what age is this game intended for?
I would hope that Aces High doesn't evolve into a game that is appropriate only for adults who can take a lot of verbal abuse. Personally, I would prefer that it remain a family game that can be played and enjoyed by young and old alike.
One thing I still can't understand is how using profanity and trying to insult and hurt someone else's feelings makes for a more enjoyable experience. I simply don't understand that logic and way of thinking.
I wish we could all be friends and give each other salutes after a fight, and gather around and give each other a big Barney hug at the end of the night.
Well said banana,
I have two daughters that I hope will develop an interest in AH. I would like for them to be able to fly with their father and be exposed to the same respect and civilty that can be found in the vast majority of public places.
eskimo
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I see your point, JAB. It looks like we've just grown up in different environments. I'm not trying to make this a personal attack against you, as you seem to be eloquent in your (IMO misguided) defense of that type of behavior. But we certainly don't agree with how Aces High should develop from this point on.
For my sake, I hope my arguments sway HTC more than your's do.
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JAB:
I don't see any "R" rating on the HTC website, where is your facts and data claiming that this is not a childs game as well?
And what of the folks that are leaning over the shoulder of someone, while that someone is showing them AH? (See Gruns post, think it was Grun that had friends over, saw the text buffer, and was totally turned off by what they saw)What about them?
AH is not just for adults, you know, I know it. Its the LANGUAGE within it that gives it an R rating. I realize that he's going to be exposed to this stuff...but does it really need to be at a place where one is suppose to get entertainment? As banana said, the occasional "Shit" doesn't draw the bad vibes, its the "Suck my dick" stuff that needs to be muted by a sysops.
Good post banana!
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The gentleman quoted above has started another thread apologizing. I see no need to keep pushing this to the top to carry on ever branching discussions.
How about either removing the pics at the start of the post or starting another thread? Does that seem reasonable?
AKDejaVu
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i agree djv. pics gone
oh and rip...that was nuttz:)
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I see your point, JAB. It looks like we've just grown up in different environments
What are you saying banana? That you didn't grow up in a trailer park? :)
dago
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>>>>I wish we could all be friends and give each other salutes after a fight, and gather around and give each other a big Barney hug at the end of the night.<<<<<
Ahhh banana! I was with ya up to the point listed above :(
And then ya had to go and do that......so the juvenile in me (or guy, take yer pick) prompts me to say ...."Bullocks you banana" :D
I feel better now :)
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Originally posted by J_A_B
Ripsnort--
I still don't understand what this recent "you all have to be nice to each other" crap is about. Are you people really so sensitive that you can't handle a bit of trash-talking? J_A_B
Nope, we can handle it, but why should we have to? There's a lot of difference between being Nicey Pie and Prissy and using gratuitous obscene language which - as this thread confirms - is offensive to many players.
I remember typing 'Shit!' on my squad channel some while ago and got an automatic warning. Is that all that happens? (Genuine question.)
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No, it only warns you the first time. If you do it again, you get muted for a while.
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Originally posted by Eagler
Looks like another argument for a permanent squelch option or an ad for CA, those types don't hang around long in there..
I agree they don't last long heheh i know some
more thats heading that way ;)
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Aces High is a virtual environment created for those who love WWII era aircraft. Created for us wannabes in most cases so that we to can somewhat experience what was done, and felt as a pilot flew combat during the era 1939 - 1945.
It gives youngsters (sometimes) the urging to "look up" the names of some of the valiant men who flew during WWII. It also impresses their young minds. They might just get interested in the craft that are slowly disappearing from the planet, unfortunate crashes, some left to rot etc. It also can be a pleasant learning experience learning to play as a team.
Unfortunately...even though this is just a game a few "hot heads" can't seperate the virtual world from the real one. Let our children learn the real world by experiencing the real world. There is no need for intolerable language anywhere, anytime while playing a simple game. IT AIN"T REAL!" It's a venue to have fun and interact within the community. Not for some jerk who wishes to spew his intelligence in vulgarity over the text buffer.
My son is 12 years old....and I'm sure he's heard plenty. I am not naive about that. But lets' teach our younger ones also that what is not tolerated in the real world....is also not tolerated in a virtual one. They'll learn enough on their own....let's not give the impresssion that it is acceptable to behave like an ignoramus in a virtualy created venue made for the express purpose of having fun...it's a game. Treat it as such and enjoy!
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*Really* good post Hajo.
Westy
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"Not for some jerk who wishes to spew his intelligence in vulgarity over the text buffer."
should read:
Not for some jerk who wishes to spew his LACK OF intelligence in vulgarity over the text buffer.
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It gives youngsters (sometimes) the urging to "look up" the names of some of the valiant men who flew during WWII. It also impresses their young minds. They might just get interested in the craft that are slowly disappearing from the planet, unfortunate crashes, some left to rot etc. It also can be a pleasant learning experience learning to play as a team.
Wow.. this is very well stated drivel.
One of the flaws with how people view "heros" is the common confusion between actions and the person themselves. Someone could have done heroic things in WW2 and be a complete ass. Likewise... some people with truly heroic personalities didn't make it through their first engagement. Deeds do not define the man.
AH pretty much exemplifies that. The best pilots can be asses. They can also be class acts. Abilities are not correlated to behavior. That is also a lesson to be learned.
Another lesson to be learned is that teamwork often involves working with people you don't personally care for. Its not always a pick and choose. Some will be likeable.. some will be offensive... but its up to everyone to figure out a way to make that work.
There's a time when the fairy tale stories have to end. That should be well before you start playing AH. Though, many here are still in need of that sobering experience.
Unfortunately...even though this is just a game a few "hot heads" can't seperate the virtual world from the real one. Let our children learn the real world by experiencing the real world. There is no need for intolerable language anywhere, anytime while playing a simple game. IT AIN"T REAL!" It's a venue to have fun and interact within the community. Not for some jerk who wishes to spew his intelligence in vulgarity over the text buffer.
One thing your child is going to learn is that some of the ugliest behavior you will see occurs while playing games. Friends are often lost on the playing field. It has nothing to do with the word "game" and everything to do with the word "competition".
Some people will behave differently than others... in AH, the "Real World" and in every game on the face of the Earth. To expect some kind of uniform behavior is simply unrealistic.
In light of that, it comes down to identifying what you believe to be excessive when you see it. Forward that information to HTC and let them make the decision on whether or not it is acceptable behavior in thier game... providing them with as much information as possible. Then let them handle it.
Believe it or not, people will not draw the same line in all situations. What one percieves as profanity/vileness is different than another. Its not your job, nor is it any one else's to define this for HTC. Its simply your decision as to whether HTC is meeting your standards or not as far as regulating behavior goes.
Its just that any regulation will result in loss of revenue for HTC. Lack of regulation will do likewise. Obviously, there needs to be some kind of balance.
Zero tollerance is a really neeto idea... if you aren't worried about customers.
AKDejaVu