Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Vortex on January 29, 2002, 11:18:54 AM
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I was wondering if we could try this plane unperked for a camp? I think when all the dust settles you'll find it gets used a lot less than some of its contemporaries such as the La7, P-51, G10 or D9. Actually I can pretty much guarantee it will as all of the above are far superior in all the areas that matter for arena play.
As B&Z planes go the 152 really isn't that stellar. Its not terrible either, but its got as many noticable weaknesses as it does exploitable strengths. Below 20k there aren't any E-fighters that it can outrun. All the planes mentioned above as well as the Typh and 51B have comparible or better speeds at pretty much all alts elow 20k. Although the plane is a bit more stable than the D9 that comes at a pretty noticable cost in that the wings peal off pretty easily if you're not careful...moreso if you don't burn the fuel from them first. About the only area it shines is above 30k, and how often does one do anything up there?
What one also finds with this plane is how poor its non-WEP performance is. Lose that and about all you'll be able to run from is the pure stallfighters. Most everything else will run you down pretty easily.
This would be a good thing to try with the v109 release imo as the "newness" of the 152 would be offset somewhat by the other planes coming into the fray. I do think after the initial excitement wears off, and folks find themselves getting run down by everything flying, folks will move back to their La7's, 51's, D9's, etc. I'd be amazed if, over the second half of a camp, it saw more action than any of the above mentioned planes.
It just seems a shame that a marginal arena plane such as this be wasted as a perked item. It just isn't that stellar a ride.
Vortex
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I guess I'll play devils advocate. I've advocated dropping the cost a whole lot of times, so I have a good idea of what people will say.
1. Someone is mad that their uber-LW ride isnt so uber. Poor Luftwhiner.
2. Someone is mad that they got shot down in their poor Uber-Lwhiner ride.
3. If it is so mediocre why do you want to fly it? Let it stay at 30 points, the real problem is that the C-Hog is perked at 8. It should be free.
4. This plane is great. Just the other day I had it up to 57,000 feet. I didn't get killed the whole day, and I got a probable on Sputnik. What other plane could do that?
/sarcasm off.
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I'd like to see it unperked for a tour so that the people that insist it "isn't really all that great" or "not that many would use it" would finally shut up. Oh well.. that's not gonna happen anyways:(
The plane is an excellent ride. It merrits being perked. The cost is quite debatable... but the perking is quite valid.
AKDejaVu
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Yeah, perk the D9 instead *G*
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I think the plane is pretty uber when you are up high. I cant imagine ever thinking of trying to dog it below 25k. Just not gonna happen. Maybe just drop the perks a little bit. 15 perks may be more appropriate.
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leave it perked......15 perks anybody can get that in 1 sortie
I would have kept it at 30. Its a rare bird as it was in rl so it is in ah.
If very few fly well thats fine perk system works.
No free lunch
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Just follow my suggestion from another thread:
For 30 perks you get it as it currently is in the game.
For 15 points you get it as it was in real life: Teething problems, powerplant a bit temperamental, handling still in need of some fine tuning etc.
~Lemur
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I don't think it sucks. I always took the Ta152 fan's word for it that it was horrible at low altitude. That it was slow down low.
Then I actually looked at it and tested it. The thing sure wasn't slow at any altitude. It might not be a speed demon on the deck, but it is quite fast on the deck. The Ta152H-1 can sustain 363mph at sea level. That is faster than the vast majority of fighters in AH, including the 2 most common (admittedly the next 2 are both faster).
I think that the biggest thing holding the Ta152H-1 back is a lack of interest in it. There is a very vocal group of people that pushed for it and voted for it on Pyro's poll, but that's about all there is. There aren't that many people who really want to fly it out of interest in the aircraft. Unperking it would cause a brief spike in its usage by people who want to fly the best and easiest fighter that would subside when they reailized that it was easier to get quickie kills in their Spit IXs, N1K2s, P-51Ds and La-7s. That would basically leave the fans of the Ta152H-1 to play with it unhindered by perk costs. True, there would be a general usage increase by people who would have flown Fw190D-9s before, but there would not be a huge upsurge in the individuals who regularly use the Ta152H-1.
My question is, how would this make AH better?
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I would fly the 152 much more than the D9. the 152 turns better and stalls less imo, plus its got Sweeet tater guns.
Maybe HT can try and swap the 152 and D9 as perks? Making the D9 be 10 perks or so.
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If the D9 gets perked, so should the P51D (wich turns alot better) and LA7.
150 TA152's were built and used in service, 200 F4U-1C's, not that many more so don't blame the numbers.
TA152 isn't that great above 30k actually, all it has got there is speed but manuverabilty and climb rate sucks bad even with wep, a Spit 9 outmanuvers it and outclimbs it without much problems. Had a fight with a spit at 36k the other day, I had wep and 30% fuel, he kept outclimbing me without any trouble.
Should defeinatly be more TA152's flying, although it is not very well known there were more flying then most people think, although most of them were doomed to protect airfields and low alt :(
Lower perk cost to maybe 10-15?
PS. P38 UBER in everything but very high speed handeling (where is sucks bad) and deck speed wich is still pretty good. Perk it too? ;)
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hehe so uber it bleeds down to 340 mph in level flight in a few seconds after a high speed dive.
Dont compare this fighting plane to a runstang or hunstang pwease :D *G*
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Can't run from many of the E fighters. What it can't run from though, it can easily outmanuver.
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I would fly it more if the wings didn't snap off at 5 Gs.
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You guys talking about perking P51(B&D) and 190D are forgetting something better than both at our common combat alts and with 4 hispanos: Tiffie.
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To clarify a couple points that have popped up in this thread...
To be honest I hadn't even considered the number of 152's produced/flying in WWII as I think its pretty much irrelevant for the MA. Using such a reference point takes one down a rather slippery slope for general gameplay. There is, after all, absolutely nothing historical about the MA short of a few passive references to planes...and even that is pretty loose. Beyond that though, nada. However, the real problem is that if you do apply that criteria to one plane then you must apply it to all. If historical availability is an issue for MA play it must be so fully and completely, and not selectively or partially as is the case in this instance. Ergo all planes must be regulated based on historical numbers. Only "X" amounts of Fw-A8's can fly at a time, which is much more than the Niki's available, although less than the 109, etc, etc. The entire thing gets to be a real mess. Historical availability makes good sense though as a precursor to help determine if you will build a plane, or not. Once built though, I think relative performance really ought to be the only criteria when deciding if perks should be applied, and to what degree.
I would have to agree with Tac though in that if the 152 is legitimately perked, the D9 certainly should be perked as well. It is easily its equal (better in some areas, worse in others, in the end an easy match though). Along with that must go the 51D, and La7 to be sure, and possibly theTyphoon and G10. They're all in the same league. If anything the 152 would be at the mid-bottom end of a comparison between these planes.
However I realize that perking any of these other planes just isn't going to happen, and that's not a bad thing either as it is unnecessary. I think the perk test should be based on whether or not the plane would see an excessive amount of use in the MA if it weren't perked. Clearly the 152 would initially, that's a given. In short order though I think interest would taper off. A good many of the La7, 51D, G10, Typhoon and D9 drivers fly those planes in part because they can, in most situations, run away when things go bad. That's a significant safety blanket. In most cases the 152 won't provide them that option, or at best it will do so to a much more limited degree. That itself will keep many away. To be effective in the plane you do have to be quite savy and maintain excellent SA as you are not going to use raw speed to bail you out. Nor can you dive away due to wing rip. Nor can you out maneuver a well flown e-fighter of any sort due to g limitations. Experienced players will likely still do well, but no more than they would in any other marginal plane. I really do think the majority will just get frustrated with it and return to the other planes that offer them a few more options when things go bad.
I defintely don't see a camp with it running perkless as shaking much up. After the intial newness wears off I think you'll find its usage levels down near the middle range of the scale somewhere.
Vortex
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Mandoble you gotta be joking with the tiffie.
Saying the tiffy is better than the 190D and p51D at common alts is such a vague statement.
Better? you mean it is faster? (than p51, 190D faster by a couple of mph if i remember correctly)
Better acceleration than both? (yes, better than both......shhh about that other thread tac ;) )
There are also many things the tiffy does a lot worse than both.
Such as roll rate (bad at all speeds)
Bleeds E badly
Climbs poorly
Just because the tiffy performs better than them both in a couple of areas it automatically labels it as better? No, i don't think so.
Also mandoble, what do you mean by common combat altitudes? The tiffy performance starts to die off once to gets over 10k and is more or less useless at above 15k.
Perking a tiffy would be crazy, although it is uber for a 1941 plane.
If the tiffy was rare and/or a late war ride there would be more of an argument to perk it, but it isn't is it.:D
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Don't forget that the tiffie turns great aswell, it's an Uber plane IMO, maybe not perkable but uber.
Took it into a low, slow turnfight/furrball the other day, came out allive with 8 kills, Wouldn't have done that in either a P51 or a Dora.
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The CHOG was perked due to complaints of "over crowding" in the MA.
Perk cost should be based on performance not numbers.
I used to use the Dora alot when it first came out, and have used the TA a couple times, and I'd rather go H2H against a Pony in the Dora.
Now I usually take a 190A-5 as it's an excellent ride when used below 20k where most MA fights occur.
Seems to me that with the early war planeset arriving next release, (Spit1, 109E, etc.) for them to have any survivability in the MA, the perk system is gonna need revamped or a RPS is gonna need to be implemented.
If they don't revamp the current system, there is little need to add early war planes as they will see little use outside of the CT Arena and Events.
Don't git me wrong... I'd love a P-40E to use, however we all know it wouldn't survive 3 mins. against a Pony, Dora, La7, or N1K2, but I'd sure look cool dyin' in it. :D
And lookin' cool is EVERYTHING!
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Thrila,
Typh roll rate is more than acceptable, if you look at NACA charts, it seems it has the rollrate exagerated. In the other hand, 190s have their rollrate reduced to compensate potential warps.
Typh outaccelerates both D9 and P51 in level flight (I always thought it had an enormous drag). With the P51D, the difference in acceleration is realy "BIG".
Typh outdives and outzooms D9.
Typh has better control at near stall speeds than D9 (much better) and P51D (even using flaps).
P51D and D9 are marginaly faster than typh, but this is overcompensated by diving, zooming and level acceleration characteristics.
Typh outturns by far 190D9, probably also P51D.
Typh has 4 hispanos.
Typh has much better jabo capability than D9.
Typh is not only better, it is much better.
And you and me know very well that MA combats are well below 15k.
Near sea level, Typhs and Yaks are the only real dangers for a La7.
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leave it perked......15 perks anybody can get that in 1 sortie
Speak for yourself. I'm lucky to get 5 perks in an evening.
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MANDOBLE,
According to the NACA charts, the Fw190 rolls slightly too slowly at low speed and too fast at high speed. The exact same problem as the AH Spitfire. And that is assuming that the force limits on the stick are the same in AH as the 50lb limit in the NACA test. The Spit's cockpit allowed 60lbs of stick force to be applied to the Spit's alirons according to RAF tests.
The AH Typhoon had its roll rate drastically reduced 2 or 3 versions ago in order to comply with the historical data, in case you hadn't noticed. Try flying one, a Lanc practically out rolls it.
Advantages the Fw190D-9 has over the Typhoon:
The Fw190D-9 easily outclimbs the Typhoon.
The Fw190D-9 vastly out rolls the Typhoon.
The Fw190D-9's WEP lasts 3 times as long as the Typhoon's WEP.
The Fw190D-9's ammo lasts longer than the Typhoon's.
The Fw190D-9 is significantly faster at higher altitudes.
The Fw190D-9 is slightly faster at low altitudes.
The Fw190D-9 has better visibility than the Typhoon.
The Fw190D-9 has greater fuel endurance than the Typhoon.
Advantages the Typhoon has over the Fw190D-9:
The Typhoon is much easier to hit with due to the muzzle velocity of its cannons.
The Typhoon accelerates slightly better than the Fw190D-9.
The Typhoon turns better than the Fw190D-9.
The Typhoon carries more ordinance than the Fw190D-9.
The Typhoon dives better than the Fw190D-9.
The Typhoon has a greater variety of ordinance available.
While the Typhoon is a good aircraft, I think that the Fw190D-9 is a better fighter. If you are saying that the Typhoon is a better fighter in the K/T sense that you push, well, that very well may be. But then the Mossie is probably a better fighter by K/T than the Fw190D-9 or Typhoon as it out turns both and out rolls the Tiffie.
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the Fw190 rolls slightly too slowly at low speed and too fast at high speed. The exact same problem as the AH Spitfire...
1 - The Fw190D-9 easily outclimbs the Typhoon.
2 - The Fw190D-9 vastly out rolls the Typhoon.
3 - The Fw190D-9's ammo lasts longer than the Typhoon's.
4 - The Fw190D-9 has greater fuel endurance than the Typhoon.
5 - The Fw190D-9 has better visibility than the Typhoon.
First, 190A8 rolls vastly slower at low speeds, and slightly faster at very hi speeds. Just rest the AH curve area from the NACA curve area, a major lose of roll rate for AH 190A8 version
Rest both areas for Spit, a major gain in roll rate for AH SpitIX version.
1 - True for substained climb (little usage in combat), radically opposite results for zoom climb (key factor for air combat).
2 - True at hi speeds, at low speed that is purely a defensive move.
3 - That is a major D9 disadvantage, it is due D9 very poor ROF. And de 13mm ammo is almost useless.
4 - U sure of that???
5 - With that bar going all the way on top of the canopy?? With the reduced frontal field of view? D9 has ONLY better six visibility.
If you want, look for me at MA to do some comparative tests in DA.
I would agree with u about D9 being better than Typh only if common fight altitudes were > 20k.
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MANDOBLE,
I've alwasy found that the zoom climb on the Fw190D-9 was excellent. So is the Tiffie's, but I've had less success with it. The sustained climb is not nearly so useless as you make it out to be. It governs the altitude you manage to obtain before you reach enemy airspace. True, you can simply circle climb to the desired altitude, or take off from a more distant airfield, but given the Tiffie's limited fuel range that severly limits your time in enemy airspace. It also incurs a hit to the K/T ratio.
Doesn't roll rate help with scissors? I'm horrible at scissors so I can't judge this.
The Fw190D-9's ammo lasts a lot longer than the Typhoon's because it has 250 rounds per cannon instead of 140, not because of ROF issues.
I discount the machine guns of 190s, 109s and Spits. When they're out of cannon ammo its time to go home. I have 1 kill with the 4 .303s on the Spit IX (a Typhoon) and 1 kill with the 13mms on the D-9 (a B-26B) that did not involve a single 20mm hit.
Having flown a tour in which I flew the vast majority of my sorties in the Typhoon and Fw190D-9 I can absolutely state that the Fw190D-9 has better fuel endurance. At least 50% better, maybe even 100% better. Tiffies guzzle gas like nothing else, except a Tempest.
I never found the bar to be much of a problem. All 6 rear views are much better on the Fw190D-9, not just the straight 6.
I'd say that the Fw190D-9 has a definate advantage above 10,000ft and below that it is pretty even, maybe favoring the Tiffie below 5,000ft.
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the Typhies outturn 109G-2s if the turn fight lasts long.
the Tempies outturn La-7s and Yak-9Us if the turn fight lasts long.
...
I thought their elevator authority was supposed to be horrible..
Dunno why I got that idea though.
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Is that before Perks, I would NEVER have heard the argument that the TA-152 wasn't "That Good" In fact, about the only thing I had ever heard about the Ta-152 was that it was the "best prop driven fither of the war" and that "Had the Germans put this up in Numbers they could have won the war" I'm certainly not accusing anyone of changing their stripes here, but it is funny to see planes like the Ta-152 and the F4-u4 being debated as "not that good, all things considered"
-Sikboy
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Tiffie is more or less equal to Dora around 10k, alot better bellow 5k.
Tiffie Turns even slightly better then the 190 A5 in sustained turns, it accelerates far better.
You claim that the combat time of it is very limited, take off with 100% fuel and 2xDT's and you'll have more then enough when you reach your target, even if you climb away and get 20k alt before you reach the target you will have more then enough. Specially at those ranges the fights are in the MA.
When it comes to guns, you say it's got 140 rpg, well, true BUT it's got 4 guns, it's got 4x140 and it's got better guns wich are both easier to hit with and cause more dammage then the guns in the 190.
If you wanna test ammo duration, you only fire 2 guns at the time since that is the number of 20mm the Dora has. Belive me, the Tiffie ammo will last longer.
4x140 = 560 rounds total, fire these 2 guns at a time (wich will give a better result then in the Dora) and you're ammo will last longer.
Allso, the 13mm in the 190 adds up to the weight, although they can cause pretty good dammage on straight flying planes where you can get a nice close hit square they or often useless in B&Z where the enemy sees you and turns away, what matters there are either cannons (wich the tiffie is superior in, no matter using 2 or 4 at the same time) or alot of 50 cal guns such as the US planes.
If you get rid of teh 13mm in the Dora, it gets better performance, but who wanna waste 950 rounds out in the thin air every flight?
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Just tested, 190 20mm ammo duration is 24 seconds.
Tiffie ammo duration when firing 2 guns at a time is 26 seconds.
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Originally posted by Wilbus
If you get rid of teh 13mm in the Dora, it gets better performance, but who wanna waste 950 rounds out in the thin air every flight?
Having a bit more flexibility over the amount of ammo loaded sure would be handy. I fly the Fw's a fair bit and when upping in any of them I invariably blow off a bunch of mg ammo. The A5 has a ton that's pretty much useless, and the A8, D9, and F8 have a whole lot more than one needs, being that I only use them for the odd burst to get a plane to turn, etc. Starting every flight by blowing off half the mg ammo load does indeed get to be a bit of an annoyance after a while.
Vortex
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And drasticly decreses your hit %.
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Look, for example, at the P38L hangar options, there are two differents amounts of ammo to choice from.
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Originally posted by Wilbus
150 TA152's were built and used in service, 200 F4U-1C's, not that many more so don't blame the numbers.Lower perk cost to maybe 10-15?
You are dreaming if you think 150 Ta152 were used in service. The NASM says only 67 were built, they should know since they have the only one. Other sources say most Ta 152Hs were destroyed on the ground by Allied air attacks while awaiting delivery, which is understandable since Germany was undergoing a severe bellybutton kicking at the time.
HTC already lowered the perk cost of the Ta-152 several times, it is fine now.
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I really don't think historic availability of a plane can come into play when determing perks. If it does, we _must_ perk every plane save one (whatever had the highest production numbers). Since the MA has absolutely no historical relevance or reference whatsoever, I think relative performance really should be the only criteria when determining perks.
Vortex
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CC Vortex, not in the MA, should be performance or useage only.
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Vortex the last post is great sugestion like this other arenas get peopled with easy rides ,but for exapmle in CA the easy ride not got laser telemetry so even iron dog can chalange it
for MA performance perk isue is a great idea !
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Actually, far more then 67 were built, not all saw action as you say, many were destroyed on the ground, but far more then 67 left the factory.
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"Left the factory" is the new standard?
Not "engaged in combat", not "scored a victory", not "flew combat patrols", not "deployed operationally"? (Did I miss any?)
Hard to keep up these days.
Well if it's "left the factory" that' s it then.. until we change again.
:D
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Toad, Montezuma said 67 left the factory, wich would mean like 30 or so saw service since there were quite a few production modells.
IMO a plane must have seen service to be added, then in the MA; it should be perked because of performance or over use.
20xTa152H-0 left the factory and saw service, a good number of H-1 (the one we have, "major" production model) saw service, under different sub variants too. Not to count all prototypes (wich I don't count to legitimate AH planes) together with some other models.
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Originally posted by Wilbus
Toad, Montezuma said 67 left the factory, wich would mean like 30 or so saw service since there were quite a few production modells.
IMO a plane must have seen service to be added, then in the MA; it should be perked because of performance or over use.
At least Monty provided a source. While I'm sure there are other sources, none have been provided. In case you were too lazy to check it out, here's a link
http://www.nasm.si.edu/nasm/aero/aircraft/focke_ta152.htm (http://www.nasm.si.edu/nasm/aero/aircraft/focke_ta152.htm)
Usually when you assert that some evidence is wrong, you counter with some other evidence. Just FYI
-Sikboy
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Dind't see that link in his message, still don't so don't flame me sik.
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Read threw it, still not sure about the numbers, will check it more.
There are misstakes in the text though, in one place it says the aluminum was exchanged to steel due to aluminum shortages, wich is not quite right. The longer tail plane and wings were heavier (specially in the H-1 Modell with a total of 200 liter fuel in each wing) and thus the weaker aluminum was exchanged to steel instead. There were some other things that caught my atention, will check up on it.
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Originally posted by Wilbus
Dind't see that link in his message, still don't so don't flame me sik.
The link wasn't in his message, but the NASM citation was. And once again, while you claim that the information is incorrect, you don't provide anything to substantiate your claims. You could very well be right, but until I get some sort of verification, I have to trust the Smithsonian, as they are a very credible source in my estimation.
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So "left the factory" is only a red herring? Really doesn't mean anything?
How do we define "saw service"? Just trying to keep up with the debate.
As for my personal view for inclusion, my "ideal" is "operationally deployed". By that I mean deployed in at least squadron strength in "combat ready" status (included in the air order of battle), with a full roster of trained pilots (normally more pilots than planes) and supported by the maintenance/logistics system. That's what I would use for inclusion. YMMV. :)
Also, I wouldn't perk anything.. not even the 262. :) My signature block says it all. :D Who am I to tell you how to enjoy yourself?
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Wow Toad I never would have pegged you as a libertarian :cool:
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There's a lot less to me than actually meets the eye.
You have to really dig to get to the incredibly shallow me.
;)
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Karnak, I agree with your assesment of Dora vs Typhoon with one exeption. The ability to hit at longer ranges is a huge asset in this game. And in that area the typhoon blows past the D9 in usefullness for the avarage pilot. I know the 2 151s on the Dora will kill very easy when they hit, But most people will hit alot more and alot fartherout whith the battery on the Typhy.
It is a better shooting platform as well(I think). That alone makes me say inspite of aggreeing with all that you say, that the Typhy is better in the MA by quite a bit. Hence its increased useage(by observation not stat checking)
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Pongo,
You are correct. I did not include the range advantage in the "easier to hit with" categorey. The Typhoon is easier to hit with and vastly easier to hit with at range.
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And its ammo lasts longer :D :P
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Wilbus,
The Tiffie's ammo only lasts longer if you only fire 2 guns at once. I don't think that is common, and it would also equalize their firepower. That is why I find that the Fw190D-9's ammo lasts longer.
I gave the Tiffie a better firepower rating than the Fw190D-9 due to the 4 cannon vs. 2 cannon and 2 13mm MGs. Reducing that to 2 cannon vs 2 cannon and 2 13mm MGs balances the firepower.
Pick one, the Tiffie has better ammo endurance or the Tiffie has better firepower. You can't have both.
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Originally posted by Karnak
I gave the Tiffie a better firepower rating than the Fw190D-9 due to the 4 cannon vs. 2 cannon and 2 13mm MGs. Reducing that to 2 cannon vs 2 cannon and 2 13mm MGs balances the firepower.
Umm -- no, it doesn't. Two hispanos are still better than two 2 151's and 2 peaguns.
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Cc Karnak, but the 2 Hispanos still beat the 2 Mg151's by far, and they got a longer range. The 13mm in the Dora is really more of a burden then a good thing since it adds alot to its weight and degrades its performance.
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Well, TWO hispanos are better than FOUR Mg151/20, and far better than TWO Mg151/20 plus TWO extra weight anti-paperplanes weapons. TWO hispanos + TWO 50" are also better than FOUR 151/20 + 2 EWAPP weapons. No way to compare.
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Now you guys are just going off on hyperbole.
I've used every gun in the game and while the Hispano is better, it's not that much better.
The 13mm guns can kill as well. They do add firepower.
The hitting power of the 2 Hispanos is probably a little less than the 2 MG151/20s and the 2 13mms. However the shooter needs to hold his fire until he is much closer with the German guns. They kill fine though.
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On one sortie after running out of cannon ammo in the D9 my list of kills as follows (with 13mm MG)
Two Crows (one might be a probable,recon still checking)
Two assists, both were pigeons and both incidently high angle deflection shots......saw many hit sprites on one of the pigeons left wings.....he started to smoke but didn't go in. Must have augered when trying to land.
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Returning to the Ta152 issue I do think for the MA the cost should be reduced to 15 , seems acceptable. The Ta152 compared to other aircraft at lo alt frankly is mediocre , when I did go below 22k feet was on the returning leg of my flight, if do get some kills while descending I'd be very fortunate not getting hit in the process.
In the context of it being the definitive "best prop driven fighter of the war" you have to look at it in the role in which it was designed for meaning that compared to many of its current counterparts at its intended altitude of combat would have been unmatched for some time until the innevitable R&D caught with it and of course something else came. it was said that not even the Spit XIV or the P51H would have been capable of competing with it in the Stratosphere so it was very amazing indeed.
I do not see it unperked not only because of its low numbers but , that it can reach above 40k feet and out perform almost anything currently in the MA(exception the SpitIX :D ) with unbelievable range to go with it.
Plus it make us Ta152 pilot cremme de la cremme :p
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Combat reports by TA152 pilots say that the plane could compet with anything, at most alts, if not all alts, could outmanuver most E fighters at all alts, tempest, P51's, P47's etc.
This it can do in the arean although it isn't the fastest at the deck, problem is that you allways fight in the odds of 10 to 1 when you fly a perk plane, and in teh TA152 you can't run.
Why the spit 9 is better at all alts above 20k is still a mystery to me, P38 about as good aboce 30k as the TA152 is, except for speed (and of course compression).