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General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: fdiron on January 30, 2002, 01:38:29 PM

Title: P51 able to catch Me262 in dive
Post by: fdiron on January 30, 2002, 01:38:29 PM

I watched a show on the History channel about the 262.  During the show the narrator said that the P51 could catch the Me262 in a dive.  Then they interviewed a P51 pilot who had shot down a 262 after the 262 tried to dive away.  Is there any data to support this statement made by the History channel?

Title: P51 able to catch Me262 in dive
Post by: Raubvogel on January 30, 2002, 01:56:07 PM

Maybe the 262 had a flame out or an engine failure? I don't see any other way for a 51 to catch a 262. I haven't seen any critical mach numbers for the 262 but I'd imagine it is higher than the 51 simply due to the lack of a prop.

Title: P51 able to catch Me262 in dive
Post by: chunder' on January 30, 2002, 02:08:26 PM

Everything I have read or heard of the matter stated that the P51 could possibly catch a 262 in a dive.... ie  the P51 is in a shallow dive catching up the 262 who is in level flight.

Title: P51 able to catch Me262 in dive
Post by: Rebel on January 30, 2002, 02:28:01 PM

One thing y'all have to keep in mind is that the narration said "From a high altitude advantage, and a position of surprise".

What this means is that the Me-262 is CRUISING.  

If she was going at attack speed, or was in a fight, there would be no way for the Mustang to catch her.

Title: P51 able to catch Me262 in dive
Post by: funkedup on January 30, 2002, 02:53:27 PM

Top speed of Me 262 was 540 mph IIRC.
Could P-51 dive faster than 540 mph?  Definitely.

Title: P51 able to catch Me262 in dive
Post by: Raubvogel on January 30, 2002, 02:58:11 PM

Could Me262 dive faster than 540? Definitely

Title: P51 able to catch Me262 in dive
Post by: fdiron on January 30, 2002, 04:09:26 PM

I know the P51s wing had excellent performance at high speeds.  Even the designer of the P51 said this.  Perhaps this allowed the P51 to initially out accelerate the 262 in a dive.

Title: P51 able to catch Me262 in dive
Post by: Tac on January 30, 2002, 04:18:25 PM

in AH the 51 has the best chance of catching the 262. You can DIVE and have a 5 to 10 second window to blow it up.

But if the 262 dives , even if the 51 is already diving to it, theres no way in hell the 51 will get it. 262 just dives much better, much faster.

Title: P51 able to catch Me262 in dive
Post by: funkedup on January 30, 2002, 04:21:43 PM

I'm pretty sure when they said "catch in a dive" they meant the P-51 was diving, not the Messer.  Regardless, there is plenty of gun camera footage of Me 262 getting caught from behind and blown to bits.

Title: P51 able to catch Me262 in dive
Post by: GRUNHERZ on January 30, 2002, 07:05:40 PM

Yep Funked and most of that is with its gear and flaps down.  Damn vulcher dweebs they didnt do that in RL, oh waitthey did. :)


Yep I always took that to mean that a P51 or P47 could quite possibly catch an Me262 if it was flying level and they dove on it from greater altitude. Of course the 262 would have to not see them diving in or it could just dive too.

Title: P51 able to catch Me262 in dive
Post by: fdiron on January 30, 2002, 09:04:44 PM

The account I saw on t.v. was where a P51 was chasing a 262.  The P51 pilot said the 262 pilot kept turning slightly to check to see where the P51 was.  The mustang finally got into gun range and shot down the 262.

Title: P51 able to catch Me262 in dive
Post by: Widewing on January 31, 2002, 12:04:07 AM

Quote

Originally posted by fdiron
The account I saw on t.v. was where a P51 was chasing a 262.  The P51 pilot said the 262 pilot kept turning slightly to check to see where the P51 was.  The mustang finally got into gun range and shot down the 262.

Was the Mustang pilot's name George Ceuleers? George chased an Me 262 for two hundred miles across Germany, finally catching and shooting it down.

My regards,

Widewing

Title: P51 able to catch Me262 in dive
Post by: Wotan on January 31, 2002, 01:41:51 AM

i caught a 234 with a 109g2 in ah......

you need more specifics a zeke could catch a 262 in dive given the ideal circumstances..........

Title: P51 able to catch Me262 in dive
Post by: Pyro on January 31, 2002, 08:41:07 AM

http://www.worldwar2pilots.com/AAF-F-Finnegan.htm

Title: P51 able to catch Me262 in dive
Post by: fdiron on January 31, 2002, 09:16:35 PM

Very interesting article Pyro.  What I found the most interesting is that the P47 pilot felt no animosity towards Galland even though he watched him blow up 2 bombers (which translates into 12 kia).

Title: P51 able to catch Me262 in dive
Post by: Glasses on February 02, 2002, 12:16:27 PM

Quote

Originally posted by fdiron
Very interesting article Pyro.  What I found the most interesting is that the P47 pilot felt no animosity towards Galland even though he watched him blow up 2 bombers (which translates into 12 kia).

:rolleyes:

Title: P51 able to catch Me262 in dive
Post by: Wilbus on February 03, 2002, 06:30:57 AM

The 262 was the first plane in the world to Go supersonic, the P51 couldn't go supersonic nor could it outaccelerate the 262 in a dive. Only way to catch one was to surprise it when going level in cruise mode or when it was climbing. Diving on it when it was doing 540Mph in level flight would be possible aswell but once level the P51 would only have a short firing opportuinty.

Title: P51 able to catch Me262 in dive
Post by: Wilbus on February 03, 2002, 06:36:38 AM

Nice reading, can't remember Galland getting shot down, long time ago since I reads his book though. What I remember is him getting shot up pretty bad, just barely making it back with engines dying/dead then jumpinbg out of the plane as the field got strafed.

Note in the text though, the P47 has about 3-4k more alt, and teh 262 is climbing AND turning slightly, had the 262's begun diving teh P47 would never had caught them.