Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Kirin on March 10, 2001, 09:24:00 AM
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First a big <S> to HTC for 1.06 - the Dora is a pilots dream!!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
But I was really amazed how cheap the monster planes are. 70 perkies for the Tempest??? I recall HT saying once it would take the average player 3 weeks to gather enough perkies for the expensive planes.
At this price an average player has almost unlimited access to even the most costly perk plane. And more over I think the 190-D9, P51-D, La-7, 109-G10, Yak-9 and of course the F4U-1C should be perked as well. Why fly a 190-A5 when u get the D9 for free? The early war planes are more obsolete than ever don't let em perish from the face of the AH world.
My suggestion:
cheap perks (190-D9, P51-D, La-7, 109-G10, Yak9, F4U-1C): around 50 perkies
expensive perks (Ta152, Tempest): like 200-300 perkies
That way the *rare* planes would be really rare and people would be motivated to fly early war stuff to gather perkies!
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~Kirin~
(http://the_kirin.tripod.com/Sig_Ta152f150.jpg)
[This message has been edited by Kirin (edited 03-10-2001).]
[This message has been edited by Kirin (edited 03-10-2001).]
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its cuz everyone still has tons of points built up
average pilot flies n1k. he gets 2 kiklls a sortie, flies 5 sorties a day. thats probably 6 perkies a day, itll take him 2 weeks to get a tempest.
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I'd say wait and see what happens. People have been saving up PP's (Perk Points) for what 2 tours now? And once they have used them them up, it's going to take time to get enough to fly a perk plane.
It all depends on what they fly and how much they fly. You know it has to take sometime to get those points in a CHog, where someone in a 202 might get them faster.
I can see it now the sky filled with 202's, na.
And HT can always change it.
Just my 2 cents.
Wrek
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That's my point:
Get people off the Niki and the CHog!!!
Motivate them to fly early war planes! I got most of my perkies flying 109F4 or G2 - those are real perk monsters while still being competetive! Let them earn their ueber-rides! Let the CHog pilot switch to the DHog - he will get his perks 3 times as fast!!
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Agree with Kirin
the perk system is an excellent mechanism for self regulation if you will (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
I *love* the D9, but we'd get more midwar fights with the planes kirin suggested perked.
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Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://stsanta.tripod.com/stSanta.jpg)
"Live to pull, pull to live"
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I agree with both sides of the argument. (??? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) )
I think that the current perk cost is ok. You are seeing many Tempests and Arados now because players have been collecting perks for a long time without spending them. If you can, start a 2 week trial account and see how many perks you will make flying as you usually do. You may get 70 perks in those 2 weeks, maybe less, maybe more... and you use them, get vulched... and time to work on those 202 skills (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I also agree that ALL late war planes should be perked. Cheap perks that is.
P-51D, BF109g10,190D9, P38L (but only when an earlier P-38 model is avaliable), La-7, F4U-C, F6F (only when the Wildcat is avaliable) and N1K (when the earlier model of N1K is avaliable) should all cost about 5 perks each to fly.
That way you will see them on the arena, as their 5 perk cost is quite cheap (and in most cases you can even make more than 5 perks in those planes on 1 sortie).
Those unwilling to pay the 5 perks because they are saving for the Tempest or the like, would fly Dhog, P-51B, P-38D/J (I wish they were in this game), early 109's and 190's, La-5,Wildcat and N1k-1J.
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Kirin.
You are contradicting yourself.
You get lots of perp points flying the F4 and G2. thats exactly right...You will get half as many flying the D9. So if you fly the planes you are now. and another guy is flying niks or La7s. You will be getting kills on him in your tempest at least twice as often as he is. The trade off in player plane choice is exactly what the perk system is for. Allow the best non perk planes in the arena but penalize the guys that fly them vis a vis perk point while rewarding the guys in the less capable planes that are successful.
So the difference between the A5 and the D9 is not "free" the D9 is rated consderably better(20?) to 30?. that stat alone says that pyro thinks the arena is 50% more dangerous for an A5 pilot then a D9 pilot. One gets 3 points for killing a chog the other 2.
These ratios may need to be tweeked. Some of the better planes may still need to be perked. But Fundimentaly you are describing the successful perk system in action. You get a whack of perks for flying the early mid war 109s. you should. YOu would have to be twice as successful in a D9 for the same points.
A 109g2 and a 190 D9 meet. The G2 is rewarded 4 times as much as the D9 for victory. that is not "free"
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Kirin wrote:
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My suggestion:
cheap perks (190-D9, P51-D, La-7, 109-G10, Yak9, F4U-1C): around 50 perkies
expensive perks (Ta152, Tempest): like 200-300 perkies
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I really like this idea!
anRky
-Ih8ubb
'Get rid of the bucket!'
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Perk points have the effect of giving the best players nearly unlimited access to uber-planes. Surely this couldn't be a problem?
Hooligan
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I like seeing a few extra tempests in the arena right now. It is the perfect counterweight for all the D-9s were are seeing.
As the D-9 fad settles, people will start running lower on perk points and the perk usage will settle too.
By the way.. I took a Tempest up once on the first night. I killed a D-9 and a P-51B. I landed with .7 perk points.
AKDejaVu
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Uhm Pongo I quite don't get the essence of your post... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (swiss banana, u know!)
The Dora is for *free* as long u don't have to spend perkies on it. Sure its ENY rating is low as it should be and you won't amass perkies in it like in a 109G2 but you don't need perkies anyway!! (because D9 is for free)
Besides the fact I have enough perkies to wreck quite a few Ta152s there is no real reason (besides the coolness factor (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) ) to spend them on the Ta152 right now. The D9 does the job as well. If the D9 would be perked I would have a real reason to gather
perkies to enable it. For that reason I would have to fly some early war stuff to get those perkies... got the point?
The perk system is a great idea to balance an arena with planes ranging from early/mid to late war. The ENY rating of specific planes might be open to discussion but the general idea is good! I am not critisising the system I just say perk some more later planes to make the earlier planeset more attractive and the arena more balanced.
BTW, didn't HT announce the CHog to be perked with next Host update? Was hoping for that for 2 months now... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Just want to note that, long-term, ENY values aren't set by HTC at their personal whim (obviously, with a new update, the initial value has to be set to SOMETHING by hand) but will are essentially automatically determined by arena usage.
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BTW, didn't HT announce the CHog to be perked with next Host update? Was hoping for that for 2 months now...
He mentioned it might be necessary because of high use. I think 1.06 fixed that rather quickly. The F4u-1C usage has been down about 80% since 1.06 came out.
AKDejaVu
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How many hours does the "average" AH pilot fly. How many kills do they get? What do they fly?
I have 226 fighter perk points. I have been concentrating my flying in A6M5bs (when it had a value of 35 and 30, now at 25 its not worth it anymore) and Spitfire MkVbs.
I have been flying lower end fighters for 9 weeks and can afford 3 Tempests. That is 1 for every 3 weeks, and I didn't us N1K2s or Spit IXs much to get here.
If these cost 200-300 points, I will never fly them because the amount of my available time that was used to get that many points is simply not worth the minor performance improvements that come with the Ta152 and Tempest.
Remember, we have to consider the average pilot, not the guys who play AH for 6 hours a day.
Don't price me out of the market, please.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Spitfire F.MkXIVc to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
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Perking the "hot" planes is terrific for rewarding smart flying but is terrible for the game.
Consider how this system would effect the large group of pilots that are new, behind the curve, or just plain suck. They will be forced to fly inferior performing planes against better pilots in better planes. The learning curve just got steeper.
Take away the ability of below average aces to fly the chog and the game will quickly cease being fun and they will leave. The player base will narrow to those group of pilots willing to put the time and energy into mastering ACM.
And how fun will the MA be if you put poor pilots in poor planes? A turkey shoot. Fun for some but will quickly loose its challenge. Some of the best fights I've had have been against poor pilots in forgiving planes.
The "dweeb factor" cannot be forgotten. Nor can the fact that every pilot worth his salt was once one! When ur skill/understanding are low you gravitate to better/easier planes for success. How many aces learned their craft in a spitfire?! Take away this important stage in learning and you will be playing by yourselves.
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I just joined full time AH but I am not planning on living on AH. I may get 1-2 days a week to fly so I am starting to feel cheated because it will take me forever to gain enough points to fly anything good. And by Then the B-29 would be out and the Ar234 would be free or cheap. and I would have flown the Ju88's wings off trying to earn perkies.
Maybe make another arena for the "late war" planes where there not perked. This way guys who only come in once and a while can still fly them with more than 7 other people.
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Chuck Perry
"Sky61"
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I've seen the counter-point to perks about how newbies will be faced with a greater challenge and it usually trails off into a few paragraphs of cow pies.
Okay, am *I* the only one flying in the arena that actually takes note of how many perk planes are in any given area?
Sorry guys, newbies are not faced with a greater challenge. Okay, so they have a small margin of chance that they'll run into someone in a tempest or in a Ta152. Does it really matter? Chances are if they run into that particular person, say Vulcan for example, in a Typhoon instead of a Tempest they will meet the same fate... death by 4 hispanos. It's absolutely rediculous to believe that it will be any different to a newbie when perk planes are rare. Unless I'm flying in some alternate reality arena where the most abundant plane I've run into since 1.06 was released is the Dora-9. Out of 40 people fighting at A19 the other day, I saw _THREE_ Tempests in _FOUR_ hours. I can list the pilot's names off the top of my head. Vulcan, Superfly and NateDog.
Perk planes pose no more of a threat than regular planes to a newbie. In case you haven't noticed, the planes don't have super abilities and require a lot of skill/finesse to fly them. The Tempest? If you have problems killing a Typhoon, then I feel for ya. It's just a faster Typhoon.
The Ta-152? The Dora-9 flies better than that at low alt where ALL of the fighting takes place.
Those are the _TWO_ perk fighters we have, and already you are projecting the future that newbies will have problems facing these?
What about the La7? N1K2? F4U-1C? P51D? Fw-190D9? All of those planes pose far more of a threat to a newbie than our TWO perk fighters.
-SW
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Funny, I see something familiar in here..
Now it's not the LW complaining of über allied planes, but its the others now.
Like others said, Kirin isn't taking into count that they've saved up their perk points for long time.
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I suggest reading the cow pies before eaten them, they are much better that way.
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That's funny !
The Hawker Tempest served in how many combat squadrons in NW Europe before 1 May 45 ?
And the F4U-c1 saw 200 a/c that ALMOST made combat ?
Nothing like perking the a/c that actually saw combat more than the one that almost did (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Cheers,
Rifle
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I like the current selection of aircraft that are and are not perked, except for the F4U-1C, which I still believe should be a cheap perk.
I don't think that the LW, USAAF, VVS or IJN are over or under powered as it stands now.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Spitfire F.MkXIVc to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
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OK. Im a about average pilot, and usually
get a kill every 2 flight.
If I land that kill Ill get a average 1 perk
point every 2 mission. (not counting the
ones I don't land and get less ).
That means Ill have to fly 140 missions just
to get 1 perk plane. That can be lost in 1 mission -70.
140. missions. TO expensive in my opinion.
a perk plane should be available to the
average pilot, having done max 50 missions.
about 25 points.
mrniel
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Originally posted by mrniel:
TO expensive in my opinion.
a perk plane should be available to the
average pilot, having done max 50 missions.
about 25 points.
mrniel
So if I fly 4-5 missions a week in a fighter and not get shot down I may be able to have enough perk points to fly a perk fighter in 5-10 weeks?
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Chuck Perry
"Sky61"
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I agree, seems bit too expensive - specially for paying customers who dont play much.
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I have to add some input..
This round, I have had an account since mid-February. I played as much as I had time for.
It was just TODAY that I finally had enough PP's to afford a Tempest, if I wanted one. I still have no vehicle or bomber perks, aside from those I got dueing a reset.
This means, if I was going to keep my account forever, I would be able to fly a Perk Plane maybe once or twice per tour.
Making the perkplanes MORE expensive would essentially remove a part of the game from a lot of people's reach. Not everyone has the time to fly 4-5 hours / day.
IMO perkplanes are a bad idea anyway. If the plane is so unbalancing it needs to be "perked", it shouldn't even be in the arena anyway. I never thought I would say this--but make 'em all free. That, or don't put the perkplanes in the MA planeset, and instead keep them for special events.
I don't like perkplanes as it is. They reward the people who can spend the most time online. I would HATE it if they became even more expensive.
J_A_B
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well i think i am an average ah user.
and i have 200 fighter perk points 67 bomber and about 10 vec. i think the amountthey cost is just about right sooo far.
Trell
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Porked points system is stupid.
The best to discouraging new people to sign up.
After the two months saved PP been spent, only a few will fly these planes.
The mix up of a Tempest with a 109-F is so unrealistic that looks like a X-files episode.
It seems that HT and his gang of crawlers, the very well known group of players who is always buttering him up, want to keep this a "private" game. At this pace they will get it soon. The Porked Points is a great advance in this direction.
It only could be solved if a RPS, à la WBs,is implemented. Everibody can fly anything, but in its due time.
Sad to see a nice sim being thrown to the cloaks
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hi kirin,
no one will fly 190a5 when d9 is aviable, that's right.
mid war planes will only be used in a RPS system. but for that, IEN has to built SOME
EARLY WAR PLANES! ..maybe with 1.07?
with an RPS, fun will be back, for all. AH has now some beautifull late war monsters, but NO early war plane (ups ju88 is one).
most of the community, i know, would agree with me. more early and mid war planes-> usable RPS-> fun.
all WB veteran know it. it's FUN to fight with spit1, 109Emil and P40.
So, HTC pls work on these and more planes.
Habicht aka wastel
[This message has been edited by HABICHT (edited 03-11-2001).]
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As long as the A5 remains unperked, I'll have a plane to fly (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
But I'll fly my new love, the D9, until I can't due to low perkies in case it gets perked (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
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Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://stsanta.tripod.com/stSanta.jpg)
"Live to pull, pull to live"
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Heya Habicht, you troll! HTC did AH not IEN... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Ok, I might have been over with the prices... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) but my main intention still stands!
New price suggestion:
Ta152: 70 perkies
Tempest: 100 perkies
190D9,P51D,CHog,N1K2,109G10,La7, Yak9: around 10-25 perkies...
Why do we have those early/mid war plane when we don't encourage people to use em? RPS - fine with me; I'll find a good ride in any epoch. The way the MA planeset is right now we face a late war enviroment.
About the newbie issue: what Wulfe said... plus I find the CHog not a good plane to learn your flying skills because it requires not much... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) If a new player starts with it he might settle with the Ueber-Hispanos and will be dearly disapointed when trying out anything else. I earned my wings on the 109 - a hard and painful way but very rewarding (especially since there is no ammo to waste... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) )
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geeze... saying that it's allright for a newbie to get killed by a perk plane because... He woulda died anyway? Yeah... that'l make him feel a lot better. How's about this? why would anyone with skill wish to kill newbies with a perk ride? I say that it's bull. The perk system assures that the arena is unfair parity of olane wise, 100% of the time. The latest plane additions merely shift the war to late war and make the earlier planes useless..
How will they add new planes? Maybe a -4 Hog or 47n/m... but then the well is dry. If they added a spit one or FM2 or P40 or 109E where would it fly? The perk sytem is a ded end and unfair in the extreme. for me it's not only unfair but unfun. I don't care if I manage to catch and kill a perk ride when he makes a mistake or doesn't see me (the only way to really kill one) and I sure as hell will not fly em against lesser planes.. What's the point?
Wouldn't it be more fair... easier on the learning curve, less cumbersome and more balanced if we just allowed the very late war planes up in the last few days of every tour? But then some would have to give up their unfair advantage they "earned".
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs:
Wouldn't it be more fair... easier on the learning curve, less cumbersome and more balanced if we just allowed the very late war planes up in the last few days of every tour? But then some would have to give up their unfair advantage they "earned".
lazs
Thats a great idea!
I am all for it.
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thanks fishu plus.... it would allow everyone unlimited sorties during that time so that they could not only learn the plane but..... They would be learning the planes against planes of like abilities!!! What a concept!! A tempest pilot would run into other tempests and the RAF guys would get a chance at unlimited sorties in a plane that was very much a part of WWII...
Of course.... some of the vets would have to give up their unfair advantage and all the "respect" that entitled em to...
lazs
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This perk system seems to make the opposite happen from what happened in the real world. (at least with the axis pilots) As the more experienced pilots got killed flying the early war A/C, the new inexperienced replacement pilots would fly the newer A/C.
I like Lasz's idea. Iwould like to see that the perk planes dont show up until mid camp.
StuB
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Here's an alternative perk idea: Give everyone 140 perk points at the beginning of each tour. Perk all planes except for the C.202, 109F/G2/G6, and SpitV. Uber planes like the Tempest would cost 70 perk points, planes like the Chog and Niki about 15 points, planes like the Dhog and C.205 about 5 points, P-51 10 points. Every plane would fall into a perk point category based on how popular it was last tour. This way everyone starts the tour with enough perks to fly anything they want. If they squander their perks they end up with a SpitV or 109G6. As we start getting early war planes like the P-40, the supply of non-perked planes will increase. Buffs and tanks would be non-perked too.
ra
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StuB? From about three, four years ago in AW BigWeek???
-Westy
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How about an arena with just late war fighters/bombers (or all the planes for that matter) so when your like me with little time to play you dont have to wait 2 weeks to fly planes your paying for?
Or maybe ditch the perks and make it so the older planes you fly will get you more points than the newer ones and if you kill a "better" plane with a "not so good" plane you get an even better point bonus?
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Chuck Perry
"Sky61"
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Originally posted by ra:
Here's an alternative perk idea: Give everyone 140 perk points at the beginning of each tour. Perk all planes except for the C.202, 109F/G2/G6, and SpitV. Uber planes like the Tempest would cost 70 perk points, planes like the Chog and Niki about 15 points, planes like the Dhog and C.205 about 5 points, P-51 10 points. Every plane would fall into a perk point category based on how popular it was last tour. This way everyone starts the tour with enough perks to fly anything they want. If they squander their perks they end up with a SpitV or 109G6. As we start getting early war planes like the P-40, the supply of non-perked planes will increase. Buffs and tanks would be non-perked too.
ra
I like this Idea too. I just think that the amount of perks shold be alot lower like 25 -30 max. I am only getting an average of 1.5 perks per mission (4.5ish points was my best). Of course I am still kinda new in the main arena and I may not know the trick to bringing home big points. But I have been bombing every mission and I have been getting the AAA sites (at least 1-5 per mission) and Buildings (usually 1-2 per mission) all in a Ju88. I was told to use it to gain the points fast. I have 22 perk points and 18 missions (10 landed) in 9 hours.
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Chuck Perry
"Sky61"
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the problem is an ageless one for flight sims. If you want late war planes in the game you either have to resign yourself to the fact that they will be the only planes in the game or you have to have some sort of restriction on em.
You can have a rolling plane set where they are not allowed for a certain length of time and make everyone unhappy some of the time or.... you can have seperate arenas and have one arena be deserted all of the time or... you can have an idiotic perk system and have the best pilots in the best planes clubbing the worst pilots in the worst planes all of the time with the very worst planes not being used at all.
Or... you can have seperate areas in the same arena where only early war planes can take off.
I have no interest in "earning" a perk plane in an otherwise balanced arena. I get no kick/sense of accomplishment outta clubbing baby seals with a perk plane and I disslike avoiding/dying by em just as much.
lazs
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Yes, I stopped flying altogether about 3 years ago and got hooked again after trying the 2 weeks free deal. It was tough canceling my AW account after doing it for 6 years, but I just had too much going on in real life. It sure is tough being a new dweeb again, but once an addict always and addict I guess (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I really like the community here and that I regularly seem to see HiTec in the MA flying and talking with everyone. It all reminds me a little of the DOS AW days. Oh well, enough of this off topic stuff...
Great to be here,
StuB
Originally posted by Westy:
StuB? From about three, four years ago in AW BigWeek???
-Westy
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Since 1.06 (Fighter vs Fighter only):
(http://www.dbstaines.com/images/Since106.gif)
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The F4u-1C is the only CV launched plane equiped to battle the high end offerings. The SpitIX and N1K2 have been used more than the F4u-1C since 1.06 came out.
There is no need to perk it anymore unless its real competition is perked too. Unfortunately, that would mean perking 25% of the aircraft in the arena. I'm not for that at all.
AKDejaVu
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BTW, the C.202 has been used as much in the last 3 days as it was in the first week of this tour.
AKDejaVu
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"geeze... saying that it's allright for a newbie to get killed by a perk plane because... He woulda died anyway? Yeah... that'l make him feel a lot better. How's about this? why would anyone with skill wish to kill newbies with a perk ride? I say that it's bull. The perk system assures that the arena is unfair parity of olane wise, 100% of the time. The latest plane additions merely shift the war to late war and make the earlier planes useless.."
eh? So you saying give the newbie the ta-152 and pit him against the vet in the 202? The newbie will still have a damn high chance of getting shot down.
I like what is proposed here, but with a twist. Have the arena split up the tour's 30 days into the 3 eras.. Early, Mid and Late war. The first 10 days would see early war planes be free, mid war be really cheap perks, late war be expensive perks. Next 10 days, mid-war comes into effect, early war planes will gain twice the perkies from killing mid war planes, mid war planes will cease to be perked, late war planes become cheap perks. Last 10 days make early war planes gain 4X perkies when they kill a late war plane, mid war planes gain 2X perkies when killing a late war plane (but gain only half perkies when killing an early war), late war planes cease to be perked (except for the mega uber rides) and gain 1/3rd perkies when killing early war and 1/2 perkies when killing midwar.
This way the planeset would "evolve" as would the perk point gain/spending.
The only thing needed are more early war planes in AH *hint* *hint* (HT (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) ).
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Stop stealing my ideas Tac.
AND STOP READING MY MIND!
~Lemur
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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shouldnt you be jumping off a cliff and drowning somewhere? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
*mind scan reveals:*
Sheep...beer...sheep...la7..s heep...beer...
*<=Pi^2/1.453+1beerpintXshavedsheep*
Ewps, backwash... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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I think the perk system is fine. I blew all my perkies by Saturday night (NZ) time, by Sunday afternoon had another 70 just from Tiffy'ing around.
Remeber perked planes are not indestructable - and sometimes lend to you flying them overconfidently. I've already had my arse handed back to me in pieces when in the Tempest by the likes of Spits, Jugs, etc. And likewise I have caught a couple of perkies myself.
Remember it is very easy to lose your perk ride to Ack, Vulchers (I mean field supressors), and other stuff.
I've been through my dweeb days, perks is a nice payout for flying right AND sticking around. Its also a nice goal for the new guys. I spose some like BillyBob1, BillyBob2, BillyBob3 who have a new handle every two weeks might not like it.
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Ta 152 isn't doing too good in the statistics...
well.. I don't really like it myself either, accerlates like P-51 and misses top speed (well, 15-22mph and accerlating those last 30-40mph to top speed takes another eternity)
Tempest seems to turn good, like that infamous air to ground fighter called Typhoon, which wasn't too highly praised for its air to air capability. (hmm, its A/A monster)
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Here's a vote from an Uber dweeb (a kill every two sorties? I wish....)
Every time a 202 kills me, it brings home my appalling dweebyness and I sulk for days.
Every time a Tempest kills me I think "squeak! You'd never have done that if it were a fair fight!"; and my temper is assuaged......
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tac.. fine... early mid and late but then why even bother with the idiotic perks? Why do some guys "deserve" to fly vastly superior planes in an otherwise balanced arena? Why the hell would they want to??? Why not just make every plane available all the time within it's area or time frame? Why not give everyone the same plane choices?
vulcan you prove my point. you can basically be in a perk plane any time all the time if you are a much better than average pilot. Newbies who can only get one perk plane every 3-4 weeks will not appreciate this fact.
I think carlos is right. there are too many flabby vets wanting to make this a private game. Personally... I like newguys better.
lazs
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Whats the point of the perk system? I have been flying now for 3 days and have 40 perk points. Will I use them on the 2 we have now? Nope will wait until the 262 comes out. I really don't agree with teh perk system I like flying the old planes, and I find if you make them harder to get you have just killed 50% of the people trying to get into one a chance now. Solution give newbies and/or bottom 25% of ranked players perk points to start with but not enough to get a fighter say 40-45 perk points. You see it happen in every game, late model planes come out and then all we have is a bunch of spit 14's and D-9's flying around. To make this work, really award the guys that fly the early model A/C, and penalize the guys that fly the late models. I personally like the A-8 the best, but it seems to attract fire to its engines every run. Dunno about that one.
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Originally posted by Carlos:
Porked points system is stupid.
The best to discouraging new people to sign up.
After the two months saved PP been spent, only a few will fly these planes.
The mix up of a Tempest with a 109-F is so unrealistic that looks like a X-files episode.
It seems that HT and his gang of crawlers, the very well known group of players who is always buttering him up, want to keep this a "private" game. At this pace they will get it soon. The Porked Points is a great advance in this direction.
It only could be solved if a RPS, à la WBs,is implemented. Everibody can fly anything, but in its due time.
Sad to see a nice sim being thrown to the cloaks
Seems like the Warbirds fishermen use cheaper bait then us AH folks. I wonder if somewhere, there is a perk price for a good trolling lure....
Not that I disagree with you Carlos...wait, yes..yes, I do. Do you fly this sim or do you just sit on the messageboards, looking through the fence while the rest of us play?
(can anyone see the hint here?) :-)
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I have to say that it's even harder for the earlier planes to survive than ever after 1.06. The SpitV's of AH have become even worse in comparison with the addition of more planes like the Dora. More birds flying around with multiple cannons and more speed doesn't help.
I flew SpitV all weekend, and got my bellybutton handed to me over and over. Zillions of La7's, C-Hogs, Tempests, and 190's (D9's it appeared) flying around... makes it almost pointless to not fly one of these rides. The reward for flying something like the SpitV just isn't worth it.
-Soda
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Soda,
That was my experience with the MkVb as well, however, I suggest we let the newness of these things wear off and for people torun out of accumulated perk points before stating how things are.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Spitfire F.MkXIVc to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
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Lazs if there were no perk system, everyone would be flying the Tempest, Arado, and Ta152, and later on, the me262 ALL the time.
No perk system will mean the other, less performing/earlier war planes would rarely be used. Just look at the C202, SpitV and zeke now... you rarely see them in the arena. Make the tempest free and you will see everyone being forced to either fly it or get killed by it. A vet pilot in a tempest (aka, Vulcan) would make massacres, a newbie pilot in it will have a tremendous advantage over a vet in a 109f4... once they find out they can miss their shot and run run run like hell.
"Why do some guys "deserve" to fly vastly superior planes in an otherwise balanced arena? Why the hell would they want to??? Why not just make every plane available all the time within it's area or time frame? Why not give everyone the same plane choices? "
The arena is not balanced. If you made era-only planes avaliable in each time frame you will spend the first 10 days without access to the other 2/3rds of the planeset. I will hear you whine that you are paying 30 bucks and being restricted about your plane choices then. Making the planes be perked with varying prices depending on the time frame would make people SPEND their perks if they want a better plane (aka, C205 instead of C202). The guys that "deserve" to fly "vastly" superior planes deserve them because they have acquired those perks in other planes besides the perk ride they are spending their perks in. If a pilot cant get perks in other planes because he doesnt have the super speed of the tempest + its cannons then what makes you think he will fly anything else BUT the tempest?
perks are a reward system. you do well in other, less performing craft and you get a shot to fly a vastly performing plane for 1 or 2 sorties. If you dont do well, you dont get perks, and you dont get tempest.
"vulcan you prove my point. you can basically be in a perk plane any time all the time if you are a much better than average pilot. Newbies who can only get one perk plane every 3-4 weeks will not appreciate this fact"
Anytime you want? Lazs, even a vet pilot will take some time to earn enought perks to fly a tempest. You get an average of 5 perks per every 4-5 kill sortie (in P-38L, which gets more perks than 109g10 109d9 and other killer planes out there per kill). Even vets gets a 4-5 kill sortie every 5 sorties or so.
I'd say a vet makes barely 50 perks a day depending on how they perform on a given day (unless they fly the 202, you can get 11 perks in a 4 kill sortie heeehe). So you can think of a vet making enough perks to get a tempest every 2-3 days. They spend it in their tempest, dweeb around, fight other vets (and heck, a tempest is a MAGNET for other vet pilots... its an envy kinda thing..."must kill he with the tempest, my pride forces me to kill it...".
A newbie will not make perks to fly a tempest in 2-3 days, maybe in 2 or 3 weeks. Do you really want to see vets AND newbies in the tempest all day long? The game would go to hell, talk about extreme imbalance.
"Newbies who can only get one perk plane every 3-4 weeks will not appreciate this fact"
And I think the rest of the non-newbie (not meaning vets but vets and regulars alike) would not appreciate seeing clouds of newbies flying tempests. Its bad enough with n1ks and chogs as it is.
"there are too many flabby vets wanting to make this a private game"
I think carlos is wrong. There are too many newbies and arcade FM pilots who refuse to learn ACM skills and are whining that they cant get access to a super plane which they would undoubtably be "l33t" in. A 109f4 vs a tempest is the equivalent of a p-51/109g10 vs a Zeke. A zeke can survive such an encounter by using its better turn against the other planes which will have to boom and zoom it.. and at one point those boom and zoom will run out of E or run away when the zeke's friends show up. And let me tell ya something, the tempest will NOT stick around to kill a 109f4, tempest pilot wont risk losing his ride in a prolonged dogfight.
All this sounds to me that you cant take being killed by a superior pilot in a superior plane that the superior pilot earned in inferior planes, and you whine to have the chance of flying the same superior plane vs the superior pilot for free... and get your bellybutton whipped anyway. Seeing Vulcan in a tiffie is bad enough, imagine him in a Tempest all year round. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I think there is nothing wrong with perk system as it is now. I just think that many of you forget how hard it is to earn 70 perkies. For me it's about 40 missions and that's about how many I fly in 1 week. 1 Tempest per 1 week, sounds like fair deal to me. But there are people who will need more then 40 missions to get there...
mx22
[This message has been edited by mx22 (edited 03-12-2001).]
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Dang! I wish I had time to fly 40 missions a week! I may get 30-40 a month but not a week! So I guess flying a perk once every month or 2 will have to work for me or something.
They should make it so we can purchase planes too. That way instead of spending $60 trying to fly one perk plane I could maybe purchase one for a few bucks and if I die I will buy another. Or I could just save the perks up if I dont want to spend cash????? I would do this.
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Chuck Perry
"Sky61"
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Tac,
Only reason that almost nobody flies C.202, is because there hardly is any close in fights for those peashots and if there are, you can still act gun happy to get anything done.
109F4 is fairly good, though, more for hunting / close to base fights (where you can run into ack so you wouldnt be B&Z to boredom by half dozen runstangs & other runners)
It has also advantage of having wide variety of versions, so people might think its more widely used G2 or G10 and go turn to death.
C.202 lacks this 'cloak' feature.
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Karnak,
I know that this is new and it will take a while to work it all out (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) It's just frustrating... btw, good to see another SpitV pilot out there.
My point is, a lot of people compare the perking of planes to what would be an average plane in the MA. Nothing like saying "Better perk the Ta152 because it is better than a P-51D", fair enough, but consider the fact that the SpitV wasn't much of a match for a P-51D, that makes the imbalance between a SpitV and Ta-152 extreme.
The SpitV already suffered as being under-powered compared to the planes in 1.05 but now against unperked Dora's, La7's and the such, it's totally unbalancing to fly a SpitV. Finding a Tempest, an actual perk plane coming in, you may as well hope he offers you the HO. Before it was just bad, now it is almost suicide..... I had a 3:1 kill ratio in my SpitV last tour, hard earned. This weekend I maybe maintained .4:1 and half of my kills were people impacting the ground near me, not me actually shooting and hitting anything.
-Soda
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Mosse11, I actually fly, er...play this sim.
I like it and by the moment it has a huge potential. It is the best in the market.
Full Stop.
But this will not last forever. And the perk system will be one of the causes of its decay. You will see.
I know many much people discontent with the system than happy with it. And it is only the beginning.
People is eager to grab and try WBIII and WWIIOL, and if the price and results are competitive you will witness a new great migration.
The PP is a source of new frustration. You see people complaining of the very low profit for bomber mission, people who disco while flying a Tempest, or happen to be a reset, etc.
The game is mature for a RPS, with the adition of a few new planes, and HT is doing this very quick. So, 6 early war planes should be enough for a RPS to start.
What will happen when people who is paying his money can not fly the best planes?. What about the occasional player who can/want not spend dozens of hours in front of the computer?. You have to be a depraved hooked to earn de PPs?.
Unreacheble items = Frustation = Resign.
This will be the game for the "few", but could HT afford it?.
On the other hand, strange things have been happening lately too:
- Planes atonshing hard to kill.
- Planes with a surprising very high speed.
- Planes that suddenly apear very high when no activity bar was showed before.
- Lancs or other bomber which climb like on rockets, unrecheable for any fighter.
- Bomber that maneouvers like a zeke.
And so on...
I know, i know, I have to film this and proof it. I have no evidences, but many people tell about such things.
Sorry, but all this may be a lag issue.
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What will happen when people who is paying his money can not fly the best planes?.
And an RPS would allow this? Not. Been there, done that. RPS doesn't work and those advocateing it, know it. There is never an agreement on when a selected air frame should enter the arena. Talk about frustration.
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Soda,
I had a 3 to 1 kill ratio in my SpitV this tour until 1.06 was released. Then it went to hell.
About me being a SpitV pilot, well, I have to confess that I am a SpitXIV pilot without a SpitXIV to fly (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif), so SpitV it is.
Read my last post in my Fw190D-9 vs. Spitfire MkXIV thread over in the Aircraft & Vehicles forum.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Spitfire F.MkXIVc to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 03-12-2001).]
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tac... i have advocated different areas in the arena where only early war planes could take off. I could fly there without the annoying perk and ultra late planes and the late war fans could just avoid the early war fields. right now with the idiotic perk system.... not only is the addition of early war planes near impossible but.... the less able planes we have are being discarded....
As for perk points... there is no point. the best pilots (or those who fly the current popular style)end up in the best planes. It's a bad idea, it's backwards. I am mediocre but I don't want to fight and beat your P38 with a tempest. I can have a very good chance with my DHog and at least it's a good fite win or lose. If I think that you are beating me because you are flying the uber 38.... I can just click on "uber 38" next time. You can do the same if you feel the DHog is the wonder plane of the set.
Why not just make the perk rides available for only the last few days of the tour and drop the idiotic and biased perk system altoghether? let everyone fly em as much as they want for the last few days against other fantasy planes.
lazs
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Amen, Lazs, amen.
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Hey Karnak,
Read your thread, enjoyed it, figured I'll be a SpitXIV convert when it arrives too. We know the SpitIX is ok, but not in this plane set with all it's high speed cannon bearing wonders. Until then, I take my SpitV to the air and try to do my best.
I had over 3:1 last tour, but since 1.06 came out I'm more like .5:1 and most of those are those lucky "unexplained" kill awards.
I'll give it a little while to work out the kinks but in order to be of any use in a strategic sense to my country-mates it appears I'll have to pick a new ride.
-Soda
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Give evryone 200 perk points at the start of each tour, how they spend them or blow them is up to them. next tour they get another 200 and so on, they can not acumulate perk points over variuos tours.
Marcof.
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I hope HTC doesn't make the early/mid war planes obsolete, which could happen if the "perk" planes are too numerous and dominate the arena. There should always be always be a place for the Spit V, furballin' planes. The arena would be a pretty boring place without them.
bowser
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The RAF found the Spit V was outclassed in 1941 by the Fw190A3 and Bf109G2.
AH has the 190A3, A8 and D9, as well as the 109G2, G6 and G10.
If the planes are modelled accuratly ( and I think they are) the Spit V is completely outclassed.
It's definately the pilot not the plane that gets the kill, but get 2 equal pilots, 1 in the SpitV and 1 in the Dora and the result is a foregone conclusion.
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Originally posted by Nashwan:
The RAF found the Spit V was outclassed in 1941 by the Fw190A3 and Bf109G2.
AH has the 190A3, A8 and D9, as well as the 109G2, G6 and G10.
If the planes are modelled accuratly ( and I think they are) the Spit V is completely outclassed.
It's definately the pilot not the plane that gets the kill, but get 2 equal pilots, 1 in the SpitV and 1 in the Dora and the result is a foregone conclusion.
Gee, unless A5 isn't doing B&Z with a gang, I can say that Spit V will outclass it in AH.
Co-alt situation goes nicely for Spit V in AH in most cases.
I don't even dare to talk about 109G2 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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This thread is worn out...time to go perk some more sheep! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/eek.gif)
P.S.- I would like to see more early war variants too (P-40's, Ki-43's, you guys know the tune...BAAA!!..er Woof!)
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Sundog
VMF-111 Devildogs (http://www.devildogs.com)
MAG-33 (http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/M3.html)
'Criticism is always easier than craftmanship.'
[This message has been edited by Sundog (edited 03-12-2001).]
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Originally posted by Fishu:
Tempest seems to turn good, like that infamous air to ground fighter called Typhoon, which wasn't too highly praised for its air to air capability. (hmm, its A/A monster)
Air-to-air combat took place in the ETO at mainly what altitudes?
Try playing with the Typhoon at those sorts of altitudes and see how far it gets you =)
It isn't the Typhoon's fault that the furball types want to play below 10,000 ft all the time =P
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Graywolfe <tim@flibble.org>
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Fishu, all the 190 pilot has to do is point the nose down a bit and run if he finds the fight is getting too much for him. He doesn't even really need to point the nose down, even the 190A3 has around 25-40mph more than the Spit V all the way up to 20K. The speed advantage is similar for the 109G2.
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Originally posted by Nashwan:
Fishu, all the 190 pilot has to do is point the nose down a bit and run if he finds the fight is getting too much for him. He doesn't even really need to point the nose down, even the 190A3 has around 25-40mph more than the Spit V all the way up to 20K. The speed advantage is similar for the 109G2.
..and that simply means that if brits decides to attack, LW just runs away - that ain't a fight.
Last time when I saw spits in 190, spits were 2k higher when I was already 31k or so (in scenario)
well.. you can imagine well that I did run when there was also P38s at same level and just small bunch of 190's against all those at such altitudes.
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Originally posted by Graywolf:
Air-to-air combat took place in the ETO at mainly what altitudes?
Try playing with the Typhoon at those sorts of altitudes and see how far it gets you =)
It isn't the Typhoon's fault that the furball types want to play below 10,000 ft all the time =P
...those turns and light controls are still quite funny though.
If you would want to have quick comparison to something, you would compare Typhoon to P-47.
Now these two are totally different in AH.
as far as I remember..
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2 Spit Vs spot a lone 190. What does the 190 do? Run away
2 190s spot a lone Spit V. What does the Spit V do? Pray
In real life, most sensible pilots only engage when they have an advantage. With the 190 v Spit that is an option. If you're in the Spit you engage only when the 190 chooses, unless you start out with an energy advantage.
Fishu, if the 190 pilot doesn't want to run from the Spit V he has another option. Outclimb him, and when you have the energy advantage use it to attack him.
In real life the Spit V was outclassed in late 41. In AH it is expected to fight against planes from late 44. It is not capable of doing so effectively, and the same can be said of several planes in AH.
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Exactly correct Nashwan, the SpitV doesn't have a chance to dictate the fight unless the 190 decides to hang around and turn with him. Not many people will do that, so the 190 leaves, grabs and comes back. I don't have too much problem with that though I wish the 190 would stay around to die (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
The problem is, the SpitV isn't that bad a plane, but in this MA it is totally out-classed and anything that was lesser than a SpitV wouldn't have a hope. The quality of the pilot is key, and some luck.
Honestly the SpitIX suffers the exact same problems as the V here, it is also easy to escape from and it can't escape from anything in the MA at low-mid alts over than the zero.
This thread shouldn't really focus on the SpitV though, it's more a pattern of what would happen to any earlier war plane in the MA. With the addition of the non-perked D9, La7, P-51B, etc, it just made the MA even less friendly to earlier war planes. I couldn't see how a number of planes that people are lobbying for could survive if they aren't also later war monsters.
-Soda
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Exactly. The perk point system is supposed to stop late war uber planes from dominating the area, but to the Spit V and IX and several others like the 202, the P51, Dora G10 La7 etc are late war uberplanes.
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Since I am still kinda new to AH this may not be as good of an idea as i think it might be but I will present it.
What if the aircraft availability were related to the "state of the war" between resets. for instance:
The map just reset because the Knights just won again (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) and all the early war aircraft are the only now the only ones available. The aircraft in the air get there guns shut off automatically so that the pretty much have to land and grab a new plane.
When say 2 fields are taken by any side a new planeset is added to EVERY side. This way everyone still has the same planes/vehicles to choose from.
When say 2 more are taken a new planeset is added to EVERY side again.
and so on and so on till the Knights win and reset it again :P the number of bases taken to increase the planes available could be tweeked or messed with each "war or battle"
and remove the perk points or use them for something other than keeping low perked people out of certian planes. Maybe just make a certian number of a type of plane available at each airfield and when there gone you gotta wait till factory builds new ones.
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Chuck Perry
"Sky61"
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well... I gotta admit.. the british plane lovers really got screwed this version. It basically made the planes they have obsolete. Every plane added is better than any of the brit planes except the Tempest and the Tempest.... Is a perk plane. no one, or very few, will have the chance to get good in it or fly it often.
So, they are left with Spits against both P51's the D9, the lag7 and some other faster planes. Even my poor ol Dhog isn't at as big a disadvantage as the poor brit's. I know that I can simply put the nose down and run away when I blow a pass or two on a Spit.
The new system has made the bottom 10 planes useless or nearly so. Even with the people that know them the best flying them they die at 2-3 times the rate that they would if they had simply clicked on a more capable plane. even the diehards will soon tire of this.
lazs
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I gotta say laz youre right.
I would agree to perk the dora if they perk the f4uc and p51d and niki as long as they remain cheap say 10 perks.
this would mean you only fly them when you really want to and not constntly because everyone i flying them.
Since 1.06 i have hardly touched the 190a8 or a5 and ive stopped flying 109s almost totaly but im sure this is because i want to learn the new stuff and i will settle back down to the old favourites(g2,190a8) once the novelty wears off.
we need to give it at least 1 tour before we can get a true picture of aircraft balance in MA i think.But if perking any 1944 plane to say 10 perks and any 1945 models to 50 perks or more for real rare examples(eg f4uc,ta152s,arados).this would make 1943 planes the uber-freebies (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif) and pre 1943 planes competative and high scoring .1943 planes Med scoring and 1945 low scorers.
maybe we could have the rolling perk set?
1 tour 1943 and later perked next tour 1944 and higher perked etc etc?
hazed
hazed
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I gotta say laz youre right.
I would agree to perk the dora if they perk the f4uc and p51d and niki as long as they remain cheap say 10 perks.
this would mean you only fly them when you really want to and not constntly because everyone else is flying them.
Since 1.06 i have hardly touched the 190a8 or a5 and ive stopped flying 109s almost totaly but im sure this is because i want to learn the new stuff and i will settle back down to the old favourites(g2,190a8) once the novelty wears off.
we need to give it at least 1 tour before we can get a true picture of aircraft balance in MA i think.But if perking any 1944 plane to say 10 perks and any 1945 models to 50 perks or more for real rare examples(eg f4uc,ta152s,arados).this would make 1943 planes the uber-freebies (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif) and pre 1943 planes competative and high scoring .1943 planes Med scoring and 1945 low scorers.
maybe we could have the rolling perk set?
1 tour 1943 and later perked next tour 1944 and higher perked etc etc?
hazed
hazed
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Hmmm..had a great low level sortie near enemy airfield with a Spit V...shot down a 190 Dora, LA7 and a N1K. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Rip,
We all know that it's the pilot, not the plane (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) And a lot of luck of course (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
P.S. Spits are outclassed by current AH set.
mx22
Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Hmmm..had a great low level sortie near enemy airfield with a Spit V...shot down a 190 Dora, LA7 and a N1K. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by mx22 (edited 03-13-2001).]
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Yep, it is, but thats the Main, if you want historical, thats what the SEA (check six, Snap shots) are for! (Still hoping for a HA one day!)
BTW, ,most of my kills are due to luck, since old age, vision, hemmor....uh, you get my point!
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The Check Six and Snapshots are fine when they are on, but for those of us who drop around the MA just to play, well, it doesn't help.
How can anyone expect a SpitV to be in the same arena as the 190D9 (free from perks), it's insane. It's like throwing meat to the lions. It was hard enough in 1.05 to have the SpitV compete against the likes of 109G10's and P-51D's, now it has just gotten insane.
You have to compare everything to the lowest denominator (probably the C202 right now) for perking or it isn't worth doing it at all. I honestly considered that there would be classes of perks based on capabilities and performance in the MA with everything above average (however that was calculated I don't know) as a perk, though possibly an very small one. It would have made some deterrent to constantly flying a later war bird while not restricting it's use like in the case of something like the Tempest.
-Soda
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Soda, when the perk points dry up (remember, folks have been harvesting these for over 2 months now!)...I think you'll see less Perks flying...I think you'll see the Dora's, Chogs, N1K's etc. perked too, an a lower rate, as this post calls out.
I still fly the earlier war stuff, sure I die, but when I do live, the perk points make it worth it, and there aint nothing better than an LA-7 thinking it can turn with your .202 !
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rip... i know a guy that can beat your spit 5 in a TBM. does that mean that the TBM is a better or even competitive plane?
The Spits just aren't worth flying for the average player. they really have nothing to offer any more. they have been rendered obsolete for all but a few and even then... barely. I have been lucky in the DHog but i certainly would not use that to prove that it is competitive with the newer planes.
Face it... The new release has chopped the bottom out of the plane set for the most part. The average player has less planes to chose from not more.
lazs
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Originally posted by Nashwan:
2 Spit Vs spot a lone 190. What does the 190 do? Run away
2 190s spot a lone Spit V. What does the Spit V do? Pray
In real life, most sensible pilots only engage when they have an advantage. With the 190 v Spit that is an option. If you're in the Spit you engage only when the 190 chooses, unless you start out with an energy advantage.
Fishu, if the 190 pilot doesn't want to run from the Spit V he has another option. Outclimb him, and when you have the energy advantage use it to attack him.
In real life the Spit V was outclassed in late 41. In AH it is expected to fight against planes from late 44. It is not capable of doing so effectively, and the same can be said of several planes in AH.
Well, I know that..
but those spit V's sure does like to climb with 190A's in AH too much to do any good.
Has to be initial advantage or spit just keeps climbing with you in AH.
I should know this pretty well (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Anyone can do it with advantage, but at coalt meet, spit will do bad for 190 if it doesnt run in AH.
(and I've seen them spits climbing with 109's... yay)
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We all are simply lab rats led around by a system devised to force the community to behave in a matter which the developers feel will insure their greatest chances for the success of their business. Guess I can't blame them (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I really don't care about perks...RPS is the best way to involve the community in all aspects of WW2 aviation and air combat.
I'm curious about one thing...how will the perk system allow for the introduction of early war aircraft...in order for this to take place, the community will have to behave as HTC has intended thru the introduction of the perk system and get involved in the pursuit of perk points...flying early war planes in an effort to gain PP to gain access to late war superplanes?
I honestly can say that I'm still having fun, however, this is the craziest thing I've ever witnessed in all the years I've played these sims...if you don't believe it, just re-read the dozens of PP threads (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Ice
13thTAS
It's not the Big that kill the Small, but the Fast that kill the Slow!
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Ice... that is the question that I have been asking from the beggining. We need a seperate area whithin the arena for early rides if we don't have an RPS. the area idea is better IMO since it wouldn't force anyone and offer all choice all the time.
lazs
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Lazs...
I'm not sure the arena is large enough to incorporate an early war area...in addition, what you would then see if we did have it, are trips to that area by sqds of Dora's or 51's simply to feed.
I'm not sure what the solution is. I do know that the RPS was a system which seemed to operate on the premise that everyones planes would sooner or later be available and that no plane was out of reach for ANY player, regardless of his/her skill level or the amount of time which a player had to be online.
The Perk System...I don't care for it and I think it's an overcomplicated attempt to bring balanced play into the MA...can I live with it? Sure...I'm fortunate that my ride(51D)will be available and I'm confident and familar enough with the 51 to fight any perk plane they introduce.
I would like to see HTC just build the aircraft into the game and then let the players sort it out...the 13th TAS flies together most everytime we're online. I would bet that we would fare just fine flying P-40's angainst Dora's...it would certainly be a challenge for all of us and that would be fun (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I still prefer the RPS, but I don't think HTC is going to let go of the Perk thingie. If I had to guess, they probably have ideas which they are unwilling to share at this time with the community which may make all of this a bit more digestible.
Let's just keep on keepin on and try to have some fun until this thing runs it's course...you know as well as I do that the current player perspective will change over the next few months, except mine of course (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Cyas Up!
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Ice
13thTAS
It's not the Big that kill the Small, but the Fast that kill the Slow!
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ice... I believe that 3 sectors seperation or 40K mountain range would be enough. I don't believe that more than 3 fields would be needed for the early war area and that if they were in a canyon environment.... Well... good luck trying to feed on em with late war planes anyway! Sure... a few dipshits would load full fuel in doras and 51's and waste time and effort just to get a little attention but I believe they would not do very well in the canyons against the nimble planes anyway... They would just be frustrated and low on fuel.
I don't mind RPS. I love early war planes. I believe that I am in the minority tho. I also have a real problem forcing people to fly my planes or style. I believe that the biggest group of simmers likes mid war and that 3 early war fields would fit the bill nicely. If strat guys or late war fans wanted to try out early war they would be given the opportunity and would be doing so out of choice not force. I know that in RPS a lot of people just don't fly during the periods they hate.
There really is a way and there really is no need for the perk system. And yes, I am taking enjoyment where i find it but I am logging more often and not having quite as much fun. My choices are getting less each version.
lazs
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I respect your opinion...what you propose may indeed work...will HTC give it a shot? Well, I'm not smart enough to answer that one (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Cyas Up!
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Ice
13thTAS
It's not the Big that kill the Small, but the Fast that kill the Slow!
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I also have a real problem forcing people to fly my planes or style,
LOL, unless the whole arena isnt furballing,
or somebody actually tries to bomb a field that you are playing with. Ill remeber that quote next time i see you cussing someone out on channel 1 for bombing a hanger at the field and ruining YOUR furball.
[This message has been edited by TheWobble (edited 03-15-2001).]
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wobble... you have again proven that you have no reading or comprehension skills.
I do not have to force people to fly my style even if I was so inclined. Simply Give em a place and I will have no trouble getting unlimited WILLING participants. In AH people have to be DENIED the right to fuball.
Contrast that with your style... Your mom had to force people to play with ya when you were little and now you want HT and co. to take over moms job.
lazs