Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Fariz on March 10, 2001, 02:01:00 PM
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Last release was great, game is going better every release and etc. and etc. and etc.
After clouds fronts, which was number 1 in my wish list number 2 moved up and now guess what? Right, became number 1. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Guns shall jam!
I do not mean it shall be 100% realistic. It can be implemented with changable settings, which could be set at full realism in the scenarios, or to like 20% (or whatever) at the MA. But that thing will be another nice touch. Some guns will jam more often some will be more reliable. Under the compression then will jam more often. And etc. That will add a very nice addition to the game. I see all the possible negative moments with jam modeled, but still I hope it will be modeled in the game.
Thanks,
Fariz
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Two points:
1) I have a hard enough time with guns that do not jam.
2) Guns can already be damaged and made inoperable.
Conclusion: I could live with random jams but would prefer not to.
Y
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I'm with Yeager....just say NO.
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Spitfires, C-Hogs, Tempest and Typhoons had *serious* Hispanos jamming problems .... Hmmmm (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Nhaaa its impossible, GAT wake up!
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I remember this feature was in EAW. It was not something that happend all the time, but it seemed to occur mostly when in high-G shots or continous firing situations. Also I think there was some model variations.
All in all I actually liked it.
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I would like it.. it would shorten up the list of sprayers and therefore make gameplay actually more interesting.
It was a historical fact that Hispano II's were highly prone to jam and as big disadvantage as it is, it should be modelled with all other guns jamming as well.
Not only plane flying charasteristics values for advantage, but also the guns.
I would want realistic gaming enviroment.. thats what I've been waiting for a long time
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This is a good idea. I too liked it in EAW, and if it were modelled similarly, I would defiately be in favor of implementing it.
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This is NOT a good idea. It is a terrible idea. I pay $30.00 a month to play a game. I did not play to have a bug purposely written into the game that causes a malfunction not due to battle damage.
If you just can't do without gunjams I have a solution. Get a simple 6 sided die. When you are about to engage roll it. If it comes up as a 1 or 3 then your guns are broken and you can die or egress to your little hearts content. In the mean time keep your freaking paws offa MY guns!!!!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
Mav
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Originally posted by Maverick:
This is NOT a good idea. It is a terrible idea. I pay $30.00 a month to play a game. I did not play to have a bug purposely written into the game that causes a malfunction not due to battle damage.
If you just can't do without gunjams I have a solution. Get a simple 6 sided die. When you are about to engage roll it. If it comes up as a 1 or 3 then your guns are broken and you can die or egress to your little hearts content. In the mean time keep your freaking paws offa MY guns!!!!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
Mav
Perhaps they dont mean random jam?
If you keep shooting too long, your guns will jam sooner or later.
So I would classify it as battle damage as well as ripping off your wings in a dive.
Enemy doesnt cause that either, you do.
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Perzactly. Not random jam but, warp-the-barrel-jam and high-G-load jam.
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picture this--
You and your wingman are in a hot one with a skilled pair of pilots. The battle started at 25K and has lasted it seems like several minutes, bot pairs jockying for position. You score hits on one of them hes smoking but hes also on your wingman tight, with his wingy zooming high to gain position on you. You give the call for your wingy to break to avoid the inevitable fire. On que he does, with the enemy turning with him as planned giving you the close range deflection shot you wanted. He fills your windscreen with his AC, You press the tit, nothing!! Gun jam, its your turn in the bucket. He goes on to shoot down your wingmana moment later, ending a 50 sortie streak without a death for him--with nothing you can do but watch. You split esse over to extend to your base but alas all you have is yourself and you AC's speed, which will not get you out..the enemy duo claims you too.
Thats the way I see gunjams.. you can keep them. As long as there is really no viable way to escape unseen ( ie...like in reality without neon icons..inflight dar...) then gunjams would not be an asset but another source of endless wining (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
now I know that may be a little more than 2 cents..but I thought I would give it anyway (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(http://home.nc.rr.com/ammo/public.html/unw_sig.jpg) (http://www.jump.net/~cs3)
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oh yeah the melt your barrel buggaboo. It takes more than the amount of ammo in the magazines of these planes to do that. You will not melt nor burn out the barrels of the guns in the planes by holding down the trigger. It takes more than a couple hundred rounds per gun to do that. The ammo counters in this game show total ammo counts. That is not what is in each gun.
Now keep yer freaking paws offa my guns in the game. You want to do the gunjam thing then use the dice.
Mav
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-ammo-, apart from the fact that I doubt all your guns would just simultaniously, sounds a lot more like they way things were to me =)
I say Yes Please!
But I've already seen posts from HTC people saying they won't impliment it =( So you needn't worry =)
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Graywolfe <tim@flibble.org>
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Originally posted by Graywolf:
But I've already seen posts from HTC people saying they won't impliment it =( So you needn't worry =)
And that is sad. As I said, I know the dark side of gun jams, but must remind you that all guns do not jum at once, and in a hand of expirience pilot in should be jamed less often, so another interesting factor to play with.
But well, I would not beat this horse any more. Die, dear fellow (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Fariz
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Originally posted by Maverick:
oh yeah the melt your barrel buggaboo. It takes more than the amount of ammo in the magazines of these planes to do that. You will not melt nor burn out the barrels of the guns in the planes by holding down the trigger. It takes more than a couple hundred rounds per gun to do that. The ammo counters in this game show total ammo counts. That is not what is in each gun.
Now keep yer freaking paws offa my guns in the game. You want to do the gunjam thing then use the dice.
Mav
Nobody has been talking about melting the barrels...
Hispano Mk.II were top of the line what comes to jamming and that gun is at the moment the uber gun with no disadvantages... it has the power of HE and AP without jamming feature.
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"Thats the way I see gunjams.. you can keep them. As long as there is really no viable way to escape unseen ( ie...like in reality without neon icons..inflight dar...) then gunjams would not be an asset but another source of endless wining "
Easy, remove enemy icons and add gun jams (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I like the gunjam idea, if RL planes had guns which were highly prone to jamming during high-g firing, I say put it in! Pony wings do rip off at high speed high-G turns dont they not? KEEP YOUR STINKING PAWS OFF MY PONY WINGS! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Gunjam? Naah had enough of him in the last sim. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) <G,D,R>
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56th FG 63rd FS (http://www.jump.net/~cs3)
Lake City
-lakc-
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Don't mess with gun jams. Go with the much more linear electric trigger system for the guns.
In other words, pull the trigger for over so many seconds, and you discharge the plane's electric system to the point where the is not enough power to activate the remote trigger, and can't fire the gun anymore. Allow for propper recharge time via the motor and your back in business.
Then we could work in horsepower drag from the generator kicking in and out (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
- Bess
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Originally posted by Maverick:
oh yeah the melt your barrel buggaboo. It takes more than the amount of ammo in the magazines of these planes to do that. You will not melt nor burn out the barrels of the guns in the planes by holding down the trigger. It takes more than a couple hundred rounds per gun to do that. The ammo counters in this game show total ammo counts. That is not what is in each gun.
Now keep yer freaking paws offa my guns in the game. You want to do the gunjam thing then use the dice.
Mav
You keep saying that Mav. Cause you have experiance with the M2 hb. Thats not what is in these planes. The barrel on the M2 in the planes is consderably lighter and I believe they did have to worry about burning it out with long bursts. Some of these planes carry 400 rpg. That is a long burst.
Also the gun bays on these planes where very constricted compared to what you are used to I bet. Gas build up in the bay could cause lots of problems. I doubt they were designed to vent the whole ammo load at once.
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With most of the US planes, the power drain from the remote trigger motors was usually enough to prevent burn out anyway...after about 8 seconds, if you let off the trigger they would not fire again for several more seconds while the system recharged. I'd be more worried about cook off versus burn out (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
So Mav, after how many rounds in the M2 HB was a barrel change recommended (instruction wise)? I'm betting there was usually 2 spares always available.
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Originally posted by Pongo:
You keep saying that Mav. Cause you have experiance with the M2 hb. Thats not what is in these planes. The barrel on the M2 in the planes is consderably lighter and I believe they did have to worry about burning it out with long bursts. Some of these planes carry 400 rpg. That is a long burst.
Also the gun bays on these planes where very constricted compared to what you are used to I bet. Gas build up in the bay could cause lots of problems. I doubt they were designed to vent the whole ammo load at once.
Not a bad question. Here are a couple of points.
I spent most of my time with the cupola mounted M85. Pretty much same gun but lighter barrel and a much nicer quick disconnect for rapid barrel changes. Dealing with the cupola was a pain for clearing the gun and loading the ammo tray. As long as the gun was kept well lubed (half drowned it seemed at times) it worked just great.
Aircraft have a couple of advantages. The gun is not in a sealed environment. It was set into the wing but had a pretty fair amount of air passage from the muzzle and gun port. This leads to exceptional cooling capacity particularly when compared to a ground mount gun. The sleeve the barrel is mounted in allows for space around the barrel so the barrel can move during firing. The barrel and bolt recoil together for a short distance before the barrel stops and the bolt continues, stripping the empty out of the chamber and shoving a new round into the gun.
Gasses as well as brass and links were vented from the bottom ejection port. Since this port was open all the time there is a good flow of air.
Normal infantry MG teams had 2 barrels. The one in the gun and a spare. They aren't light so there is a limit as to how many can be carried. The 50 BMG is a heavy MG so they typical infantry squad isn't going to have one. They used the 30 cal mg's instead.
Barrel changes are dependant on a couple of factors. The amount of firing done and what is the enemy situation. You might have a hot gun but if you need to fire you do so. The infantry guns were the ones that had the reputation for burning out barrels, sometimes firing until the darn thing drooped.
AS far as this game is concerned. the only guns I can see firing for extended time periods are the PT boats and buff guns. I have yet to fire a lengthy sustained burst at another plane, including a buff simply because the darn targets just don't stay still. The ride of choice for me is the P51D, B and the F6F. All use 50's and generally require more ammo than any cannon bird in the game to down a plane. Not once have I fired the entire load in one burst.
I repeat my original position. There is no need to write a bug like random jams into this game. There are no random engine failures, low octane gasoline options, routine breakdowns of aircraft systems modeled. I think that those would be much more of a prevalent problem in real life than gun jams. No squadron, wing or group ever had 100% operational aircraft during WW2. We do in this game as that is what people pay for here. They pay to play a game based on WW2 combat. They don't pay to have the plane they fly randomly suddenly stop working properly as an attempt to induce additional "immersion" in the game play.
How long would you play if at least a couple times an evening your plane quit working spoiling your mission or sortie. Probably not very long. I can imagine the whining from that happening.
The main thing that people pay to play for is the combat against live players not a computer AI. Not random failures. If there is no combat you might as well play MS flight sim # whatever by yourself.
Mav